Good morning. Thank you for spending part of your Sunday with us here on News Radio 930 WFMD. This is the Faith Debate. I'm Troy Skinner, the pastor of a church called Household of Faith in Christ, online at HouseholdofFaithinChrist.com. Of course, you can follow the Faith Debate on the radio station website at WFMD.com. We pick up this week with a conversation that started last week on a book called The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord, written by Tom Maccabeus, published by Greg Windsor, and we entered that conversation talking about some of the biblical and non-biblical sources to support the arguments in the book, and we alluded to some of the history, church history and otherwise, in that, and we didn't really do a deep dive, so we're going to do that this week, and here to do that, again, Imran Razvi from Well, two places. The church it meets at Imrans, and also Conquered by Love Ministries online at conqueredbylove.org. And from those same places, Daniel Razvi, he's on again this week, along with Greg Windsor, who is the publisher of the book The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord. And The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord is available for purchase at barnesandnoble.com. And it was interesting. I want to pick up on this before we get into the history stuff, but you mentioned where people could get the book last week. And you mentioned that Barnes and Noble was one of the places that didn't kibosh it. So did you have some issue with people at other booksellers that said, yeah, we're not touching that topic? So the shocking thing is, Okay. So this author writes a book and he's quoting history. That's all it is. It's, it's, here's the history. Here's what the Bible says. Not in any way attacking anybody. Yes. Yes. Going after the ideology, but not one single evidence of any kind of hate speech. So two publishers, um, very, very large, I'm not gonna mention their names, but they said, take this down immediately. So they shut it down. They refused to run it, thus proving the initial point of the book, because the book starts out that we live in a time where Christians are losing their businesses. Christians are being sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars. People are being put in jail. Some people are being killed. Some people are losing their livelihood. Why? Because they just want to hold the marriages between a man and a woman. Or they send out a Bible verse and a text message. The author has documented like 50 cases in the last couple of years of just blatant persecution because of this agenda. So the publishers basically proved the premise of the first chapter of the book. the ones who shut it down, anyway. It's interesting. Now, what's been the reception of, I mean, we've given you feedback, at least on last week's show we did. What other kind of feedback have you received? Have you had some hate mail? Have you had some people loving you? Well, some people have been very, oh, that's just homophobic. I mean, even some Christians, they said, look, this is homophobic, sounds homophobic. What do you call them, Christians then? Now that's interesting because anybody who heard last week's episode knows that I was the one who was asking some questions for clarification. Some of them could have even been accidentally characterized as like pointed pushback, which wasn't the intention. It was seeking to just clarify the mode of communication in the book and that sort of thing. But despite all any pushback I would have, maybe I'm just like oblivious. I read the book. I don't see anything homophobic about it. The author intentionally tried to be redemptive and even mentioned, look, The whole pride parade thing started because the heterosexuals threw out the Bible. The sexual revolution, that was mainly heterosexual. So it's not targeting, yeah, this is really important. The book is not targeting and saying, look how bad the LGBTQ is. No, it's about a whole entire worldwide sexual lawlessness, but it's being headed by the parade. Any sex outside of a marriage between one man and one woman for life, is ungodly and unbiblical and sinful. So there's a whole lot more that goes into that than just homosexuality. Yeah, and the reason I say, I mean, first of all, we've come to change our terms anyway. So if we want to go all the way back to what defining our terms and what it really means, homophobia means a fear of those that are homosexual or engaging in homosexual behaviors. There's no fear of that in this book. Now, I know that has come to mean something other than fear has to do with some sort of a hatred for those who engage in this sort of thing, but there's no hatred in this book either. Now, there is a definite and direct... When you call it sin, that makes it feel like sin. Yeah, it's definitely directly categorized as a sin, but those are just statements of biblical truth and fact from a Christian worldview perspective. Troy, you're behind the times. That's not the same as... If you say somebody's sinning, that means you must hate them. that's not the same as homophobia. Right now, I will say this, anybody who's angry with this book or angry with what I just said, or angry with the, uh, the attaboys I'm getting from Daniel, you're clearly Christophobic and you hate Christ and you hate Christians and you're afraid of Christ and you're afraid of Christians, which actually probably has some truth to it. What do you think about it? But I mean, it works both ways. If we can't have an honest dialogue about where we're coming from on things, it's not just mere opinion. Now, again, I asked some clarifying questions last week, and so there are some differences between me and the author of this book, for instance. But the premise of the arguments that we all would make, at least those in this room and represented by this book, are the same. The premise of our argument is what does God's word say? And sometimes we don't always 100% fully agree on what God's word is saying, because we're emphasizing different things, and we have to have a meeting in the mind, which is what a show like this is designed to do, to help us figure that out, so that at the end of it all, we can hopefully get more closely aligned and be on the same page, like literally, I guess. But there's no homophobia, that's a little bit, other than generically, anything that's biblical being homophobic, if that's what you were hearing, well then, good for you, I guess. You know, the ironic thing, just for the record, the early Christians were called haters. That's what the Romans called them, haters. And cannibals. Yeah, right. And atheists. Right. So, also, you know, the responses have been kind of shocking, like, what? How come I never heard about this? And this is kind of hard to critique, but some Christians have a, well, you know, the world's always been evil. Yeah, yeah, it's just another evil. Almost like a blasé attitude towards it. But what they don't, I think what they're not getting is that if, you know, God declares the end from the beginning, and so Jesus, God gives us hundreds of prophecies in order to prepare his people, to encourage his people, so we won't be surprised. And so if something is happening that's a specific prophecy, if we write it off as, yeah, that's just the world. The problem is it's not just the world. It's one denomination after another. Every single denomination, I think, is pretty much has either capitulated to that God of sensuality or lovers of self, lovers of pleasure. At least the big name denominations, a lot of them have. Right. Or else they're compromising. Yeah, I think I'm agreeing with what both of you just said. I think that what Greg Windsor is saying is that at some level, all the denominations are wrestling with, and there are certain elements within certain denominations that are beginning to go astray. And I think what Daniel is trying to clarify is, but they haven't been completely given over, and some of them are fighting within their ranks, and they're holding the line. It's been a challenge, maybe, but they've been holding the line, so they're not completely, so there are some good denominations and some good groups of churches that do exist, but I think that the point that Greg was making is that this infection is impacting the immune systems of all denominations, and all of the immune systems are being called to bear right now. And those with weak immune systems are falling apart. And no sarcasm meant, it's like a spiritual AIDS virus. It goes after the immune system. And let me just clarify, I wasn't trying to broad brush all the denominations up. But you have denominations. something to the effect of less than one percent of the people that call themselves churches are actually biblical churches that are worth attending so today yeah so that's we're pretty extreme on yeah in that in that belief on this program here so just today you have a major theological seminary i'm not going to mention it because i i don't want to pick on them very conservative who see, they'll say, oh yes, we believe marriage is between a man and a woman. They'll say that, but then they'll say, but we need to accept these gay unions, or we need to accept the LGBTQ. Like the Pope saying is you can bless the union. You can't approve of it, but you can bless it. But so the danger is the subtle apostasy. I mean, there's the obvious, there's the obvious, I believe obvious, you know, from the liberal Christianity that's, they abandoned scripture decades, if not centuries ago. But then there's the subtle thing of Christians holding to saying that they believe in marriage between a man and a woman. We believe in the traditional view, biblical view really. But they're compromising subtly and that's the real, Well, I would liken it to the abortion movement. For the last few decades, there's been a number of so-called conservatives, so-called Christians, well, I would never kill my baby, but what you do with your, that's up to you. No, it's not up to you. Sin is not up to you. You can say, on the one hand, look, it's not my place to specifically judge you, because God's already gonna do that, but you need to be able to be vocal and say, well, what sin is, this is actually sin. And those same people that were compromising on that, well, you know, personally, I'm pro-life, but, you know, what you do, same, those are the same people that said, well, I believe marriage is, but, you know, but what you do in the, in the privacy of your home with consenting adults, that's that, you know, that's your business. Or you should attend a lesbian wedding, that, that's okay, et cetera, et cetera. So the thing is, even give them a gift. According to Alistair Begg. And it's sad. So the fundamental issue is the spirit of Antichrist wants Christians to compromise. That's what he's after. And that's what Emperor Antiochus wanted them to fall away, to commit sin, to ruin their conscience. And that's what the spirit of this age is after. Yeah, I think the biggest thing is there's a real big spirit of fear. Most Christians today will not stand up, will not be standing in the gap, as God has called men to do. They're not standing up for the biblical worldview. They're afraid. They're afraid of cancel culture, they're afraid of personal attacks, and they have right to, I mean, look at the attack the Supreme Court justices at their houses, you know? So the evil in this world is really going after anybody that stands up. And so most people don't want to stand up. They want to say, well, I may believe this, but you know what? You can believe whatever you want. And that's not the gospel. In fact, we're supposed to preach to people that this is what God says. It's not what I say. There's no reason to get mad at me. This is what God says. And what I found funny, what you guys said earlier, is the homophobia, it's really atheists are Christ-phobia. They're so afraid of God because they know they're wrong, and that's why they fight against it. If they don't believe there's a God, why would they fight against it, right? Right, so they have an unhealthy fear of God, not the right kind of fear of God that we're called to. If God isn't real, how can he offend you? Right. I mean, literally, how can it, but really the Christians are afraid. And that's, that's something that, I mean, we understand where the fear comes from, but we still need to be strong against that because it's, it's, we're not homophobic. We're homophobia phobic. Like we're afraid of being called homophobes, right? That's, and we should not be. Yeah, and we need to get to the point. I think we've begun to get there on other issues. For example, I don't like using this word in a typical context, but here you'll know exactly what I'm talking about because it's the word just thrown out. It's the label that's attached to somebody like those sitting in this room. You racist, you. And it's gotten to the point where that's been so commonly thrown out there that it means nothing anymore. I mean, there are people like, all right, that's all you got, call me. 20 years ago, you call somebody a racist, no, I'm not a racist, I've got many black friends. Like they've got all those, but now it's like, okay, whatever. You got something else because that's meaningless. You've used it for everything, right? My shoes are dirty, I'm a racist. I didn't wash my dishes after dinner, I'm a racist. It's the labels attached to everything, whether it's a sinful behavior or not. So it doesn't mean anything anymore. So if that's all you got, I'm not offended, I'm not afraid of it. I think we need to get to that place with this homophobia and all the other garbage labels. It's ridiculous on the face, it's not gonna impact me anymore. Whatever, I'm rubber, you're glue. We have to have that kind of an attitude. Whoever you throw at me bounces off me and sticks to you. Because a lot of times that's what is that's going on by the way, it's projection anyway. So we just need to let them own the projection that they're trying to fire at you. Right. And the important thing I think that you're touching on is, yeah, if you're rooted in what God said, if you know this is what God said, it doesn't matter what people say. But a lot of people, there's a spirit of intimidation that's designed to suppress. And that's part of the rainbow agenda. And that's why so many Christians, I believe, are falling away or so many church members. And, and also, you know, love that distinction by the way, yeah. Church members falling away rather than Christians falling. Well, yeah, it's, that's a whole nother subject there. But, but throughout history, you know, it's, it's like Rome, by the way, here's another evidence. Let me just give you a little, a little piece. Okay. Throughout history, there was anti, there was Antichrist figures. And if you, there's common, there's a common thread. Many of the Antichrist figures throughout history either promoted what we would call a rainbow agenda or lived out a decadent rainbow agenda. For instance, Nero. Nero, the early church thought, wow, this guy could be the Antichrist. Nero was like the archetype of antichrist. He lived he did unspeakable things You can't you know and by the way Nero had a parade to where he married somebody and he he went around Rome and tried to convince them But even the decadent Romans didn't go along said no. No, let's let's keep marriage between men and women But the point is it's it's the intimidation. Yeah, okay. So the early church just a pinch of salt Come on, just just just do a little pinch of salt. You know, they they finally came up with this litmus test to get them to fall away. So that's the spirit that we're dealing with. And I like that phrase. I mean, even the Romans, there are some distinctions. When I was in the camp of, oh, well, I never thought of this before because I'd studied history a lot. I knew about the Maccabean revolt. I knew about the history of what now called Hanukkah, but really a feast of dedication. And those types of things, and even the nudity and the gymnasium stuff, I had read that before, but nobody, until I had read this book, nobody had connected the dots about, look, they were actually doing what we would call a pride parade. And they were actually marching to transgender gods, and they were actually forcing the believers to participate. That had never happened before. in that way until today and Except in some ways it's even worse today, and that's why you would you say even the Romans it reminded me I mean there there is There's one distinction because all throughout history there have been deviant sexual behaviors and even it's not we see that but Even in those situations, they'd never called it marriage or a replacement for marriage. They said this is something even the Romans would have this pederasty and homosexuality was rampant in the Roman Empire, but it was, hey, you do this thing when you're young and growing up and you take a male lover and this thing, that's part of the culture. And then, okay, now you're grown up, find a wife, propagate the species. They didn't call it marriage because they weren't stupid enough to think that this could be a replacement for the family. This was something else they did which was fun or culturally appropriate or whatever that was separate from the family. And what's happened in the last couple of decades and especially the last few years is an intentional destroying of the family. Not only do we do these behaviors, we are calling it marriage. We are calling it a family. To the extent that a family is not even necessary, and it's it's so stupid. Just just logically you can't propagate the species that way But but that's the first time in history that that's been the case But it does come from the closest peril even though it's this is worse than it's ever been the closest peril We've ever had has been in that time of the Maccabean revolt, and that's that's I think the nice tie that this book makes That's the voice of Daniel Rasby, the one who just said right, is Greg Windsor, publisher of the last day's Pride Parade and The Return of the Lord. And Imran Rasby has also been on today's show, and I'm sure he'll have more to say as we continue today's program. I'm Troy Skinner, this is the Faith Debate on NewsRadio 930 WFMD. So we've very nicely dovetailed into the history kinds of points that I was hoping to focus on in this week's show. I'm going to be the contrarian a little bit, but it's in a spirit of agreement. It's almost pulling out little fine hairs here and there. I felt like maybe the case was overstated or overplayed a little bit in the spirit of, you know, there's nothing new under the sun as we see in the Old Testament book of Ecclesiastes. I do agree, though, that there seems to be a pervasiveness and a scale that strikes us as new. It's across the globe, particularly the western portion of the globe, western civilization, and it's so pervasive, and it has infected the visible church, anyway, in ways that feel unprecedented. And And you do allude to, this book you've published alludes to the idea of the historical connections. We have the sexual deviancy of Sodom and Gomorrah. We have the stories in the Old Testament of rape and incest and all sorts of bad sexual behaviors. And those who want to say, well, homosexuality doesn't exist in the Old Testament. Well, you need to read it again because it does over and over again, actually. And then in the, and then the time of the Maccabean revolt. And then even in the new, and this is where my non-dispensational point of view has some effect on how I understand some of this. I don't disagree that what happened during the time of the Maccabees and the abomination of desolation there is a precursor pointing to something future, but I would say that an aspect of what that's pointing to is the abomination of desolation that would have happened in AD 70 with the destruction of the temple. and all the things leading up to and incorporated in that. And even that is then leading to the ultimate very end of time with the return of Christ. So I do think that there are these re-presentations of of prophetic things. It was described to me once by a seminary professor, you know, from our point of view, we look off into the horizon and it looks as though there's just one mountain peak. But as you continue your march forward and you navigate through the woods and get closer and closer, you realize that, oh, it's not a mountain peak, it's a mountain range. From a distance, it looks like one mountain. But as you get a different perspective, you realize it's multiple mountains, and all of those multiple mountains are aligned in such a way that they appear as one presentation of the future truth. And so, is it true that what was going on during the times of the Maccabean Revolt is pointing to things that are playing out still today? Yes, but it was also pointing to things that would play out in the first century. Oh, absolutely. And I don't know that that was amplified in the book all that much, which is why my attention was drawn to it. So yeah, you wanna respond to that? I think that because so much has been written about the desolation of Jerusalem in 70 AD, I think the author tried to cover territory that has not been covered. Like you study any kind of eschatology and there was a lot happening in 70 AD, partial fulfillments. But one interesting thing is that I do believe there is some historic record that Titus did defile the temple with a prostitution a sexual defilement in the Holy of Holies and that that's the reason why what you know some of the praetorists think that that was the fulfillment of of Daniel. But again I agree with that position that that was only another foreshadowing for the final event of the final Antichrist. And you brought it up and I'm glad you did so I'm just gonna just make sure we don't do a quick drive-by reference to it. I don't want us to run the risk of underselling the unbelievable animalistic, not merely pagan, but demonic behavior of Nero. I think Nero as an individual, and Nero and what those closest to him were involved with, is really close to what we see on a grander scale. Nero had a quote-unquote marriage ceremony to his gay young lover. So he was even trying to treat that as a marriage. So that was more of a microcosm for what is playing itself out in a more macrocosm kind of a way. Yeah, things were really, really bad once upon a time, and things are really, really bad now. And I think we've allowed ourselves to enter into some sort of weird cocoon where we lived in this false version of Christianity, the Christendom or the Churchianity, as I sometimes call it, where we think that, you know, oh, if we can go back to the 1950s, You know, life would be so much better. Well, you know, the church and the loss of commitment to biblical sufficiency by the 1950s is what led to the 1960s and everything that has followed. So it's not like the 1950s were the good old days. Right? So we don't want to merely get back to that. We want to get back to something better than that. So we've got just a couple of minutes and I want to leave us time again to promote some things. So I know that you want to promote how you can get the book and Daniel's got an event coming up. So let's talk about that. Yes. Okay. You can go to barnesandnobles.com. Look up last day's pride parade. And yes, and there's a couple other outlets. Actually, there's a lot of other outlets. We can go to Draft2Digital, and there's many other outlets that have it, but just do a Google search, Last Day's Pride Parade. And, uh, I also wanted to talk about an event that's happening in, uh, just this coming weekend, uh, September 7th and 8th. Um, it's a ballet that I've written, Daniel Razvi, I'm the composer. Do you dance in it? I'm not dancing, I'm conducting. I'll be conducting a full live orchestra in the pit in Rockville, um, and we'll have dancers on stage. Please tell me Imran dances in it. So anyway, if you're interested, I won't say anymore, but if you're interested to see what's what is going on that it's Esther ballet calm again That's Esther ballet calm and the discount code is Hadassah, and there's two performances There are two performances Saturday is the 7th and Sunday the 8th you have all the details on the website Esther ballet calm And I want to mention, you know, this is not just entertainment, okay? This actually will be the reading of Esther. It is biblical. The whole idea behind this is this is historically true and biblical, so it's not just entertainment. It just happens to be set to music and dancing and all of that, but we do read through the book of Esther and we'll talk about that. So it's a performance for such a time as this. Exactly. Remind you, don't be a Haman. There's a wonderful lake of God's deliverance in the face of an Antichrist spirit. Yes. Yeah. Well, good, good stuff. And I'll promote their ministry. The Razzies have a ministry called Conquered by Love Ministries online at conqueredbylove.org. And of course, they pastor a church called the Church that Beats It, Imran's house. And he's not here, but I'll promote him real quick. Daniel, I've done that a couple of times, but David Forsey, he's typically on this panel. He's not here this time, but he's a pastor in the area. If you want to get in touch with him or connect with what he's all about, you have to do that through me, because he doesn't really do a whole lot of online stuff. And you can connect with me. You can go to WFMD.com, but I think it's a little easier to connect with me directly through email or even my phone number, that sort of stuff, and learn about. everything that's involved with this show and our various ministries at HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com. It's a one-stop shop where you can connect with podcasts of this show, which are always posted on the station's website and also eventually onto SermonAudio.com and Odyssey.com and all my social media and that sort of stuff. You can connect with all of that, again, through the hub that is the website, HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com. So we're going to continue our conversation about the last day's pride parade and the return of the Lord and issues that may be related to it as we begin to pivot, perhaps, into some other areas and hot topics. We'll do that next week, 167 and a half hours from right about now. Until then, God bless.