And then we will be back in our study on shattering the deception, dealing with error from a biblical perspective, Bible answers to several of these false religions. Today, we are going to primarily look at Roman Catholicism. So I won't have you turn to a specific passage yet, but I'll step down and then we'll get into that study. All right, so let me get this connected here and then because we have about a six-week time frame here before Dan Clark does a series on creation, I'm trying to get through these different false religions. We've spent a couple of weeks doing some foundational preparatory type of instruction over the last couple of Sundays, and we've looked at some major worldviews. We've looked at some monotheistic religions. And so we're going to break down one of those today. I won't go back and rehearse everything that we have been talking about for sake of time. But let me begin by saying this. I know that I have had many conversations with Roman Catholics through the years. I grew up in a neighborhood where there was a very a prominent Catholic church right in the neighborhood. A lot of the kids that I played basketball with in the neighborhood, they went to that Catholic church, and I delivered newspapers all around that area there, came into contact with a lot of Roman Catholics, even as a teenager, had some interesting conversations with one of the boys that I played basketball with there. I mean, I would not play basketball in any of those cul-de-sacs where my mom still lives, where I grew up, but we did that all the time. After school, we'd go down and we'd play for an hour, two hours. Streetball, 21, make it, take it, no blood, no foul, that kind of stuff, right? And we had some pretty rough games sometimes, but there were a group of Catholic boys, and I had some good conversations with them. Of course, they found out I went to a Christian school. They found out I was a Christian, and I did not consider them true Christians. And we would get into some conversations, and we would go through some of the things. They even went into the creation account, and spend some time kind of debating that, arguing that. I wanna say that there are some good, moral people who are Catholics. There are some very immoral, reprobate people who claim Catholicism as their religion. I mean, our president considers himself a Catholic. But look at what he represents, stands for, look at his policies, look at his view on life, sexuality, we can go on and on. What kind of a Catholic, he doesn't even believe in the historic Catholic traditional faith. We have individuals here in our church who have been saved out of the Catholic Church. Your background has maybe been in Catholicism. Maybe you still have friends or family. We are interacting in a world today where people come from Lots of different religious backgrounds. We're seeing more and more people drop out of organized religion altogether. But how many of you would say that you have either come out of a Catholic church or maybe you have friends or family that you know are still involved in Catholicism? Anybody? Yeah, there's a lot. I'm not surprised to see that. So let's deal with this. I know this could be a six-week class all by itself, but this is one of the major worldview religions that we talked about last week. It's a monotheistic religion, but let's begin by, oops, I did not turn this on. Let's begin by looking at this area of authority, okay? Because this is ultimately where we have to begin. Because if you start with the wrong premise, we talked about theology, the wrong view of God, even a monotheistic religion that has the wrong view of God, the wrong approach to God, they're gonna end up in the wrong place. It doesn't matter if you start here real close to the truth, If you're pointing in the wrong direction, if you start with the wrong premise, even as close as it might be to the truth, where are you going to end up? This illustration works in archery, in hunting, guns, shooting. I mean, if you're off even just a fraction of a inch at the beginning in the way you aim, in the way you line up your sights, where does the bullet, where does the arrow end up when it comes to the target? It's gonna be way off by the time it reaches its destination. And so we see, with Catholicism, we see similar terminology, but it's defined differently. We see them agreeing with certain biblical positions from a moralistic standpoint, but they ultimately deny salvation by faith alone in Christ alone. So they end up in the wrong place. So let's look at, when it comes to authority, let's look at Roman Catholicism's view of authority. Will they claim that the Bible is the Word of God? Yes. Okay, but what do they add? They add the Apocrypha, I don't have the chart on the screen, but I have a couple of books here, and one of them has a chart that breaks down the differences between Bible teaching and the Apocrypha, and what the Catholics pull out of the Apocrypha. So they add the Apocrypha. They consider it as the inspired word of God. The Apocrypha has doctrinal error, historical error. has not been recognized by the early church. The Apocrypha is not the word of God, but they include it. They also put church tradition on par with scripture. So this is something that, when it comes to interpreting the word of God, ultimately, who are they going to agree with? God and his word, or the church's tradition? Church's tradition is what it ultimately boils down to. Because the Roman Catholic Church, why did we have the Dark Ages? Why for roughly 1,000 years was there a period in history called the Dark Ages? What was the main reason for that? Yeah, the Catholic Church suppressed knowledge of the truth, keeping the Bible in Latin, not letting people actually study the Word of God. They were condemning as heretics anyone who would translate the Bible into the language of the common people. We've spent time talking about Wycliffe and Tyndale and others. And, of course, Martin Luther, 1517, the 95 Theses. And he spoke up and preached very loudly and clearly and boldly. The just shall live by faith, justification by faith, faith alone and Christ alone. In the Protestant Reformation, and we don't have to go into all that history, but they would say, when it comes to, I remember talking to a Roman Catholic, and we got into the conversation about the gospel, about how one is saved, and we got into a passage of scripture, and I mentioned something about the interpretation of that passage, and he said, I am saved according to the interpretation of the church and what they say about the Word of God." He said, according to the church's interpretation. He came right out and said it. He wouldn't listen to what I was trying to explain. This is the correct interpretation of the Word of God. This is the correct interpretation. There's no other way to interpret this. vehemently disagreed with me. He was nice about it, but he said, no, the church's tradition says this, the church says this. So they hold church tradition at the same level of the word of God. And then papal decrees, I forgot to put up all these, sorry about that. And then papal decrees. What's the phrase, ex cathedra? Cathedra, okay. And basically, when the Pope speaks in a official capacity, in a specific, I don't know what has to be decided, because if he just has a conversation with somebody, that doesn't necessarily fall into the level of a papal decree, but I don't know what designates it. Oh, that's right, yes. And they've codified a lot of this. I mean, when a pope makes a decree and they consider it on par with the word of God, it's inspired, it's ex cathedra, however you pronounce that, they codify it and it goes into the official records as official part of the church tradition. If the Bible is in disagreement with a papal decree or church tradition, what are they going to take? They're going to take the church tradition or the papal decree. Another monotheistic religion that we talked about last week. Again, we have to come back to authority. This is where it ultimately boils down to. Islam, we know they believe in a false god, Allah. That is not the one true god. They use the Quran. Which is interesting, I think it was the third caliph that actually put the Quran into actual writing. Because I believe Muhammad had it first as an oral tradition, and then it was compiled by, I think, the second caliph, but it got lost or burned or something. I forget the whole story. And then the third caliph is who actually put it into the official Quran. And supposedly, the Quran is only official, it's only, I use that word very loosely, okay, when it's in Arabic. So a translation from Arabic into another language actually, in their view, is not inspired. It's corrupt. It's not official, whatever the word might be. But then they add the Hadith, sayings and traditions of Muhammad. So there's an oral tradition and traditions that have been passed down. And so they add the Hadith, and then they ultimately say the Bible is corrupted. So their prophets would be, and we'll talk, Lord willing, maybe next week or another week before this series is done, we'll talk about Islam, maybe with some more particulars. But they will claim Adam as a prophet, Moses, Jesus, but Muhammad came and he corrected all the errors of the Bible. He's the one who came along and he's the one true prophet. And that's one of the five pillars of Islam, I believe, is that statement about Muhammad and Allah and Muhammad being his prophet. And now you have in New York City and in Minneapolis, you have the calls to prayer five times a day, I believe it is. And the calls to prayer in Minneapolis and New York City are broadcasted over the PA, the public PA system in Minneapolis and New York City. And do we realize that when those calls to prayer, those statements are actually a statement of Allah claiming jurisdiction? When he makes those, when those prayers are called, it's not just, hey, come and pray. It is a call, is a decree of Allah claiming jurisdiction. spiritual forces from wicked high places. And then Judaism, another monotheistic religion. Obviously, I'm separating these from the one true, and again, Christianity, biblical Christianity. Is it a religion in one sense of the word, but it's primarily a relationship? I'm separating biblical Christianity from Roman Catholicism, though the media, the world, they lump all Christians into one big lump, but I'm separating Biblical Christianity entirely. Judaism, the Old Testament, some Orthodox only accept the Torah, and there's Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Jews, and then there's the Ultra-Orthodox and Hasidic. I'm still trying to learn, I know some things, but there are some things I'm still not well-versed on. But some Orthodox will only accept the Torah, the first five books. And they also add the Midrash and the Talmud, which are the oral traditions. So you have Jewish rabbis, and they will, I don't know if they literally hold the Midrash and the Talmud at the same level as the Old Testament. I don't think they do, but they rely heavily on the rabbis. And so the Midrash and the Talmud will, even in some cases, supersede the word of God to some degree, and then they reject the New Testament. Some reject anything beyond Deuteronomy. All right. So we come down to authority, and that is so important as we begin here. Roman Catholicism, blinded by religion. So as we talk about Roman Catholicism today, We know that Satan has used the influence of the Catholic Church and its false teaching on church authority and salvation to deceive. And then one thing that I want us to take away from this is maybe there's a Catholic acquaintance that we can pray for, that we can witness to, that we can see come to Christ. Now this is a layered slide, the next slide. is layered. So I apologize to Heather. It's going to block out some of the things that she has on the paper there. But when we think of Roman Catholicism, what are some things that come to mind? Maybe tradition? A lot of the big hats, right? So traditions of all different kinds. Ornate cathedrals, right? I mean, all over the world. And wasn't it, I mean, it was almost, I don't know, it was almost a catastrophe of epic proportions when Notre Dame burned. Isn't that over in France? And then Notre Dame burned again last night on a last second touchdown by the Buckeyes. But that's a, oh, that's a different, sorry, sorry, that's a different. Touchdown Jesus wasn't, anyway. I am really getting myself in trouble now. And then Pope Francis, if someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge? We shouldn't marginalize people for this. They must be integrated into society. Does that sound like a compromise? Yeah. Doesn't sound scriptural. Nope, not at all. But they put a lot of authority on the Pope. And when he starts speaking that way, he sends huge, huge Messages, ripple effect throughout. We think of priesthood, robes, garments, all of that outward type of material. Sisters, habits, bad habits, dirty habits, yeah. Sacraments, seven sacraments that are supposed to be practiced in order to earn heaven. The rosary, held Mary full of grace. I'm not even sure I'm saying the whole thing. I don't even know if I know the rosary. And of course the beads that come with it. Of course the idolatry, that is a big part of the Catholic religion. We have a very strict Catholic neighbor, and she has a statue of Mary in her front yard. You'll often see Catholics with statues of Mary There's a superstition, I think, that comes with some of that. They think that by having a statue of Mary, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that they believe that that offers some sort of protection or blessing or spiritual favor, something like that. But our dog can't stand that idol, I'm sorry, statue, I call it an idol, but of Mary. Our dog just gets so upset at that idol, at that statue. We'll be walking the sidewalk and that dog, It's just a statue. It's just a piece of concrete. He doesn't like it either. See, he's a good Christian already. We think of cold dead religion, right? Cold dead religion, sadly. I remember on a mission trip to New York City, a group of us preacher boys, we sat down in the back of a very ornate cathedral. I don't remember the name of it in New York City. We sat way back in the back, and they were doing mass. And we just got the heebie-jeebies. It just got really creepy. We sat there for five or 10 minutes, just kind of observed, and then we got out of there, especially when the priest started doing this thing with this wafer and holding it up. And we're like, OK, let's get out of here. It just was just, I don't know. If you've ever read, I think his name's Brewster, Pilgrimage from Rome, a priest that got saved out of Roman Catholicism. It's a very, very interesting book, biography. And he talked about the power that he felt as a priest, that he had the ability to change the wine and the bread into the very body and blood of Christ. And he said it was almost euphoric because he, and then as a saved person looking back, he was like, that was demonic. What I was experiencing was not emotion. He was actually saying it was demonic. Now as a saved person, looking back, he realized the spiritual effect of that. Scary stuff. Cold dead religion, sadly. A lot of people are deceived by it. So a little bit of history of Catholicism. We'll quickly go through this. Don't forget, the day of Pentecost is not the start of the Catholic Church. Peter was not the first pope. In Matthew 16, Jesus did not declare Peter the pope of the true church, right? Okay? So we'll go through this timeline. I'm getting, going too fast here. Christian Church begins in Jerusalem. Christianity, Constantine makes religion, makes Christianity a state religion. Unsaved people begin entering into the church in droves, bringing with them their pagan Roman practices, mixture of paganism and Christianity. Leo I becomes the first pope, A.D. 440, claiming to go all the way back to Peter himself. There is a schism. I read it, but I forget what the schism was about. I can't remember. Was it? People authority. Okay. I was reading about it, and I couldn't remember what it was. I forgot to go back and remind myself. So it came down to some interpretation of papal authority. But I think the Eastern Orthodox, I think they still keep a lot of the ritualism. But they differ, obviously, from Catholics and certain practices. But they still keep a lot of the traditionalism. Of course, it's salvation by works. Then the Roman Catholic Church becomes more and more entrenched as the state religion, dark and middle ages. But I do want to bring up at least these three men, John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Huss, who amid the darkness of these centuries, God did not leave us without a witness to his truth. All right, so that's some of the history of Catholicism. Now concerning the Bible. Traditions of the church, pronouncements of the Pope, and the Bible are all authoritative. When the Bible and tradition disagree, the Catholic follows tradition. And then the Apocrypha is included in the Catholic Bible. Now I forgot that I had put that in, there it is. It's the Greek Orthodox Bible, that's the third column. So the Christian Bible, Does not include the Apocrypha. The Roman Catholics include most of it. The Greek Orthodox Church includes all of it. So I did have that chart in there. I thought I had left that out. All right, so we've spent some time concerning the Bible. Now let's talk about basic beliefs of Catholicism concerning apostolic succession. What is apostolic succession? It's the idea that Peter was the first pope. and that all popes then descended from Peter. Matthew 16, if we'll turn there, Matthew 16. We know well, this is the occasion where Jesus asks, whom do men say that I the son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist, some Elias, and others Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Matthew 16 and verse 16. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Powerful statement. Verse 17. Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood, hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven, I say unto thee that thou art Peter, literally pebble, little stone, and upon this rock, which is bedrock, foundation stone, I will build my church. It's the bedrock truth of that statement that Peter just made, thou art the Christ, the Son, the living God. That is the truth upon which Christ builds his church. And Jesus said, I will build my church. And it's upon that truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, upon that bedrock truth. But what do the Catholics do with this verse? They claim that Jesus ordained Peter as the pope. And from that, then, they begin to form a hierarchy. And you have the College of Cardinals, which I guess are the inner group of cardinals, not the red birds that fly around, but the next level below the pope. And these College of Cardinals now are involved in choosing the pope. So I guess they have to figure out if in his lineage he goes back to Peter. Is that part of what they do, or is that no longer so important? Oh, sorry, Justin. Yeah. They say, when Jesus said, blessed art thou Simon Barjona, and then thou art Peter, and upon this rock, they say that is the actual start of the church, and Peter is the one who is Oh yeah, oh yeah, they have the same manuscripts available to them, but they will not accept that Peter is the little pebble, and the rock is the bedrock truth of that statement, that Jesus is the Lord of the church. They want Peter to have an authority, so they are just holding an interpretation right out of that verse that's not there. Earl? I want you to tell the folks, you called me last night. Yes, yes, I told you I would need your, I said I would need your help, yes. Okay. Gotcha. So how do you end up with more liberal and more conservative popes then? If there's supposed to be, if there's an authoritative succession, then how do they, how does the College of Cardinals get a, wasn't Pope John Paul II, wasn't he more, he was more conservative than Francis, yeah. How is it fundamental church is called fundamental pastors and then later on they turn into evangelical wonderment? Oh, right, right, yeah. Because the person who says something about what they believe and then later on, all of a sudden. But I just want to say that we're guarding that thing about the papacy and when you show us the pictures there, that the Catholic Church wasn't like bright by itself. Right. It is. Latin. Yep, yep, that's the more traditional, yep, yep. So what about sacraments and salvation? These are just short summary statements. And we can break this down some more as we go along. But according to the Catholic Church, salvation then is based on sacraments. They're means of grace. What we will observe, Lord willing, tonight as an ordinance, as a memorial, the bread and the juice symbolizing the body and the blood of Jesus. They are seeing that in the form of transubstantiation as the actual body and blood, so they're repeatedly crucifying Christ. Now, they'll deny that, but that's ultimately what they are doing in transubstantiation. But they see that as an actual means of grace. So in going to the mass, you are receiving almost as if you are receiving grace in some sort of objective commodity that gets added up. It's almost like there's a bank somewhere and you went to mass and so you got 500 grace points put into your bank account, so to speak. and on and on and on, and so they see it as a means of grace. The Lord's table tonight, when we observe it, it's not a means of grace. I am not imparting some sort of grace to your life. You're not imparting some sort of grace by eating and drinking the bread and the juice. We are simply taking a solemn occasion to specifically dwell on the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, as a memorial It's an ordinance, it's not a means of grace, but they see it as means of grace. Well, we'll get to the seven sacraments here in just a minute. And then the transubstantiation is a major doctrine in this view of the mass and its sacramental ability or aspect. So the Roman Catholic tenets or sacraments, I should say, Baptism would include infant baptism because infant baptism is supposedly going to wash away, I think, original sin or something like that. And so they'll believe that if that baby is not baptized, then it's still going to have a greater effect of sin. I heard one Catholic say that by not getting baptized, that person exposes himself or herself to demons. And so the baptism chases away certain demons from that person's life as an infant. I mean, I heard a Catholic say that. Holy Eucharist, that would be the mass, right? Some of them, now, our neighbor, she goes 7 a.m. Sunday morning faithfully, ritualistically, but then she may go some other times during the week. I know that in Speedway, Indiana, We would have the boys in Little League, and we would sometimes have Saturday night games in the baseball field. A couple of the baseball fields were right next to the Catholic Church in Speedway, just in the shadows of the 500 track. Sure enough six o'clock maybe over there watching a baseball game and here come the flocks of Catholics to the Catholic Church and the bells ring in it's like we're trying to watch a baseball game here, you know And the bells ringing right there and over the parking lot and so some do that was a six o'clock mass on Saturday I don't I don't know how they Distinguish Sunday. I honestly don't know. I don't know if there's anything there But the the mass the Holy Eucharist is again a means of grace confession. That would be to the priest So, you're confessing your sins, I guess, in a sense, to God, but you have to go through the mediator, the priest, so they don't believe in the priesthood of the believer, where you have direct access to God, boldly come before the throne of grace. Confirmation. This is one I'm still a little iffy on. I know this is a big deal, but isn't that going through a series of classes and things, Earl? And I know that, again, for some people that I've met, this was a huge deal. They were They were relying on, I was confirmed in the Catholic Church. I remember one guy I talked to, and he was just totally caught up in that. I do the mass, been confirmed, and he really struggled. Why would I need to trust Jesus Christ? Why would I need to believe your gospel? I have gone through, and he talked about the classes, he talked about whatever, and it was a huge deal. I know it's a, It's a big deal. Matrimony, of course, a traditional Catholic would believe in what, no divorce? But holy matrimony, marriage, and they would hold to a one man, one woman for life. So that's one area where we would agree on a social, from purely a social or moral standpoint. Extreme unction, now this is the anointing of the sick. Now, help me out here, but does this have to do with the last rites? Okay, so when our neighbor's husband passed away, she made it very clear to me that he got his last rites. So he was in his final hours, heavy breathing, or shallow breathing I should say, and she made it clear to me that even though they had a Baptist chaplain from the hospice, and she knows I'm a Baptist, she knows I'm a Baptist preacher, and we've had some good conversations, but she talked about this Baptist preacher who was the chaplain for the hospice, and she said, well, and she looked at me and she said, the Baptist prayed over him, and then he got his last rites by our priest, and so he just probably slid right into heaven. She said that, I think you were there. She said that, I mean, it was, the road to heaven was just like greased for him. So just, I mean, I was, in my mind, it was a sobering thought that he'd likely slipped into eternity, having never truly put his faith and trust in Christ, because he was depending on all of these traditions, sacraments. Yes, Hank? R-I-T-E-S. R-I-T-E-S, yes. Yes. Correct. And then holy orders. This one I'm still a little fuzzy about. That's right, okay, okay. So this would be on like the case of a nun with a woman or a priest, a man. Yeah. Okay, so this is a dedication. And my understanding is you marry the church. So you'll take this vow, and as a nun, in that case, you would not get married because you marry the church for the priest. And we know some of the fallouts of that, don't we? And the homosexuality, the child abuse, on and on we could go. It's been a huge scandal. Earl? I don't know if you know this or not, but when the woman becomes a sister or a woman's religious So I think the next slide is just going to highlight these things and then Mary. We could spend a lot of time here as well, but what are, what's a summary of their view of Mary. She's exalted above every other created being. They consider her human, but she's treated like a goddess. They believe that she was exempt from original sin. Venerated simply means she's worshiped. There are prayers made to her. People bow to her. Images are erected, idols. They claim that she remained a virgin and that she did not die and suffer decay. Her body was assumed into glory at death. I saw a hand. Yes, Hank? Well, the Gospel according to Rome, this is an excellent book. If you ever have a chance, he goes into more detail about it. They believe that some of it goes back to pagan belief systems from back in the early centuries that they borrowed. But basically, it's a false, it's the idolatry of Mary. It's a goddess. God the Father needed a queen. God the Father needed a woman. Instead of what we believe as the church being the bride of Christ, it was a twist of that to God needed a queen, God needed a wife, and Mary is elevated to a goddess. This guy, he comes right out and says, compare it to the Astra of Canaan, the goddesses. He said it's just a form of paganism. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, Gary. As an example, in my working years, I spent a lot of time in Mexico. OK. And visiting and being involved in industry, I was in a lot of large factories. And all of them that I entered had merry statues Every 50 feet, 75 feet, you could not be any place in any of those plants that you could not see. The statues of Mary are extremely important. I've heard it explained this way, one preacher explained it this way, he was dealing with Catholicism, and he said, for many people, they see Mary as the softer side of God. So in order to approach God, in order to get to God, you need the mother figure. She's soft, she's tender, she's compassionate, she's loving. God is almost, in many other cases, seen as this big brute, and he needed the softer side. You know, like a big brutish man, he needs a softer side. He needs to get in touch with his feminine side, right? It's almost like that. It's really, when you think about it, it's a blasphemy of God. And that's one of the reasons why Mary has become so idolatrous, and they have visions of her and all that, because she's treated in a goddess-type category. But yeah, those idols are very important to them, those images. Yes, Bob? OK. Yeah, that was actually the next thing. Yeah, go ahead though. Oh, right, uh-huh. Right. Graven image? Gotcha, right. Right. Yes, and that explains why in this book, he addresses that a little bit, and that really pairs with what he says, because they take that commandment, and they, no, it's not no other gods before me, which means anything that comes between me and God, they actually try to read that as above, and then they allow for the idolatry, which we know ultimately then replaces God. God gets removed, and the idols and the mariology and all that replace, yeah, church tradition. Yes, Ben. I was reading, I think it was in here, and I forget what he said. I wish I could go back. I forget what they say about that. But I was reading about that just the other day. How do they explain that she's a perpetual virgin if Jesus had half brothers? And I forget what I read about that. Maybe somebody has a, Earl? That's right, that's right, yes, thank you. Right, right, yes. Yeah, that one was not necessarily the one I remember, but the other one, he talks about that in here. They reinterpret the half-brother, or brothers, brethren, to be cousin, whatever, yeah. Did I see Chris's hand? Okay, all right, thanks. So when they talk about the assumption of Mary, I heard a Catholic just the other day, he went through and he explained, and basically he reinterprets the Bible. He went through and explained how she would never suffer decay because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but she was not in that category because she got, exempted from original sin. And so therefore, she didn't decay, she didn't die and suffer decay. She was assuming, they totally misinterpret scripture. I listened to this guy give a five minute explanation. And I was sitting there yelling at the radio as I was listening, yelling at my phone. I think Eric was in the van with me as this guy was explaining this, and I was yelling at my phone. I was like, you're denying Scripture. The Bible says, and they interpret even out where Jesus said, I'm a handmaid and God my Savior. They interpret all that completely out of Scripture and violate the very principles of the Word of God, yes. I gave you a special dispensation. He was doing it. He was doing it back there. Right. They twist the scripture. It's really sad, deceives so many. Purgatory is essentially, they rip a verse out of 1 Corinthians 3 about the save so as by fire, and they totally reinvent that passage and try to say, well, that's speaking to purgatory. So that's the only biblical text that they try to use, from my understanding, is 1 Corinthians 3, save so as by fire. But then they go to the Apocrypha, and I forget which book in the Apocrypha that speaks to purgatory. And that's one of the reasons they hold on to the Apocrypha, is because of that reference to purgatory. Yes, Bob. Right. Yes. Correct. Yes. Right. Right, yep, so big money maker, prayers for the dead, all of that goes into purgatory because the more prayers, the more incense, the more money, the greater the chance of them getting out of purgatory, the quicker they get out and get to heaven. And then they, we don't even have time to talk about prayers to the saints and the different categories that different saints are supposed to be able to help oversee. Yes, Bob? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. Carolyn. Right. Right. Yeah. It's a mystery then and they can hold them. Well, we never know. We never know. We might have $5 more. Yeah. Yeah. Chris. Wow, so he paid money to the Brothers of the Sacred Heart to help Lynn get out of purgatory faster? To pray for her soul. Okay. I see, okay. So we know Lynn was already a saint. She became a saint upon trusting Christ as her savior. And we know absent from the body is present with the Lord. There's no purgatory. So yeah, but there's a relative that's thinking that she has to go through some sort of holding cell first. Sad. All right, we are almost out of time. Go ahead, Jenny. Yes, yes. Church tradition. I've been told that too, yeah. It's the idea that they hold church tradition so high that you can't, no, you and me, and that's even this, again, conservative commentator, podcaster, whatever you want to call him. He's a Catholic. I enjoy his conservative politics, but he will come right out and say that. You cannot interpret the scriptures properly. You need the church to interpret. They don't believe in priesthood of the believer. I close with this, and then I'll pray and we'll be done. I do believe that there are some Catholics who may be truly born again if they are not trusting in their sacraments. Okay? If they are disobedient, but might be trying to stay in as missionaries. Earl and I had this conversation. Supplement, compliment me here real quick if you need to. But I do believe there might be some. I think there are rare, I think there are few. They have to be in disobedience to the Catholic Church. But if they're practicing this in a sacramental, it's not Jesus plus, it's, Christ and Christ alone. And if you stay in the Catholic Church and you continue to practice this stuff, you're adding works to Christ. Earl? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so there might be somebody, but it's rare, and they would have to be disobedient, because if they're practicing this, then that's ultimately where their trust is. Yes, Hank? Right, right, yep, you can't be both. Right, yep, you're exactly right, good point. All right, let's close in prayer. Lord, thank you for your word. Lord, thank you for how clear your word speaks to these issues. Thank you, Lord, for salvation that comes through faith alone and Christ alone. Thank you for providing for our salvation and, Lord, revealing yourself in your word and in the person of Jesus Christ and making it so clear. Lord, help us to be a good witness to Catholic acquaintances that they might truly put their faith and trust in Christ and Christ alone for their salvation and forgiveness of their sins. Give us opportunity. Lord, equip us to better evangelize and to love you and to serve you and to be that much more thankful and grateful for our salvation. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. Thank you for being here and thank you for the feedback. Sorry to go a little over. We'll start the service in about 13 minutes.