The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at calm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. Today's date is September 12, 2024. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. Just dial 877-207-2276. And if you want to give me an email, that's easy. You can just send it to info at carm.org. Info at calm org and put the subject line radio comment or radio question and we often get to them hopefully and I will not be on the air live Friday or Monday. So be repeats I've got to go to speak at a conference. That's one of the things you got to do and you know how things are Speak at a conference. I'll be in Yorba Linda Southern California Orange County Yorba Linda Tomorrow, I mean flying in tomorrow and speaking. I'll be on a conference panel a Friday night at Calvary Chapel Yorba Linda and Be there and then I speak I think I speak three times on Saturday and then we'll be preaching in Norco Calvary Chapel On Sunday, that's what I understand. So we'll see how all that goes by God's grace All right, I think that is it. Like I said, if you want to give me a call, it's easy. All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get to Chuck from Texas. Hey, Chuck, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. Hey, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. I was having a discussion with a Christian brother of mine, and we were discussing justification, and I was saying that those who are trusting in their Faith Plus works aren't truly saved. And he had a different view, and one I'd never heard of before, and it was in the context of the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, and it was his understanding that someone who is trusting in their faith and their works are still saved, he says because their faith overrides the error of believing also that your works will justify you. And I've never heard that before, and I was wondering what your reply would be to that. Yeah, that's found in the book of 2nd Moronicals. Yeah. That's where that's found. And I think the subcategory is stupidification. But at any rate, here's the thing. What I'm going to do is teach where you need to go and what you need to read. And you need to know these verses when you want to talk about justification. You need to go through it quickly. Not quickly, but slowly. And before I get into them, let me just tell you that both the Roman Catholic and the East Orthodox Church deny justification by faith alone in Christ alone. They add works. And you are correct. When anybody adds works to the finished work of Christ, they do not have the true faith. They're not regenerate. I'll give you an illustration for that in a little bit. So what we do is we go to Romans 4 verse 1 you start there What then shall we say that Abraham our forefather according to the flesh has found? for if Abraham was Justified now. There's that word justified and it comes from the Greek Dikki odds. Oh or Dikki. Oh It means to to justify to make right. Okay, so For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Now, what I'll do with the RCEO is I will say, what does it say that was credited him as righteousness? And they'll often ignore the verse. Well, he had to work because blah, blah. What does it say? I don't argue. What does it say? Abraham believed God was credited him as righteousness. And they'll say, well, after a while, they finally go, OK, his belief. But you have to this. You have to that. But what does it say? You know, I'll repeat it. Romans 4 3. What does it say? Abraham believed God and it was credited him as righteousness. What was credited to him as righteousness? And then they'll often say, but not according to what you think it means. And I say, we haven't even talked about that. What does it say? What does Romans 4.3 say? I'll do this repeatedly. Then he goes on to verse 4, now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but what is due. But to the one who does not work. but believes in him who justifies the ungodly. His faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works. So that's Romans 4, 1 through 6. Verse 5 is particularly important, but to the one who does not work but believes. So one of the things I'll ask them is, is Paul negating works regarding justification? That's what I'll do. And they'll argue, because they're in a false religion. And I'll say, let's go over it again. Romans 4, 5, the one who does not work but believes. You have two things, works and belief, or faith. And he's getting rid of works, so that's faith alone, isn't it? I'll teach him like that. That's Romans 4, 5. And notice it says in beliefs in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. That's what justification is. Because in verse four, excuse me, verse three, his belief was credited as righteousness. And in verse five, his faith is credited as righteousness. And what this is talking about is justification. Because Paul brings up in verse two and in verse five, So he's talking about justification before God and it's by faith alone clearly taught and This and then Paul goes on to say in verse 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works So this is the the backbone where you got to go. Are you with me so far? Yeah All right, you need to know this. Romans 4, 1 through 6 is really critical. Now, what you can do is go to Galatians 5. And you start at verse two. Behold, I, Paul, say that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he's under obligation to keep the whole law. You have been severed, notice the pun, circumcision. Severed from Christ you who are seeking to be justified by law You fallen from grace now the fallen from grace doesn't mean you lose your salvation. It's a different issue, but for now You've been severed from Christ you who are seeking to be justified by the law How are they seeking to be justified by the law by doing circumcision? circumcision was commanded in the Old Testament and It was commanded, and it's a covenant sign, Genesis 15, 6. So if God had told Abraham to be circumcised, and it's just one thing that the Judaizers wanted to do, just one. Paul then says, there you go. You're seeking to be justified by the law. It's either all of faith and grace, or it's not all of faith and grace. So what Paul is doing in Galatians 5.4 is saying that by adding this one thing, in this case, circumcision, now you're seeking to be made right by what you do, by the law. This is deadly bad, deadly, deadly bad. Galatians 2 16 says knowing that a man is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Christ I Know there's a lot of verses here, but here's another one. This is Titus 3 5 He saved us not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness but according to his mercy by the washing of regeneration renewing the Holy Spirit and So not on the basis of deeds that we've done in righteousness. The reason that's critical is because what the E.O. and R.C. will say is that, well, you see, we're not saying we're justified by faith and our works, but that the works are a necessary part of our faith. And if you don't have those works, James 2 says, and I can get into that, if you don't have that, well, then you're not really going to be justified. And I say, so what you're saying then is that you'll be justified before God by your faith and the works that demonstrate your faith, right? And he'll say, yeah. So it's these deeds that you're doing and you're already righteous by your faith, right? Okay, good. Well then why does Paul say, not on the basis of deeds which we've done in righteousness, in your faith already. So what he's doing is he's negating that possibility. And I can go on and on, there's a lot here. But you with me so far? Yeah, absolutely. I've debated this about 10,000 times. Let me get you an illustration, and then we can go to James 2, because I'll invariably go to James 2. An illustration. Oh yeah, he brought that up. Yeah, I'll do that. Here's an illustration I've been using. The cross of Christ is before us, and we are there on our hands and our knees because we don't even want to bring our eyes up to even look upon the Lord God, whose blood is dripping down his arms, down his chest, down his back, down his legs, off his feet, onto the dirt. And this is the place, and that's the time of our regeneration. It's a place of the death of the Holy One. And we don't belong there. We're not worthy to be there. But there we are. And we won't even approach the cross because it's too holy. and we hear the sound of a man crawling on his arms and legs he's crawling and he passes us up slowly and he goes up to the cross all the way and he always keeps his head down and he takes out of his pocket a list of his deeds that he's done and he nails it to the cross then he backs away And what he's hoping is that God will accept him based on his faith in Christ and what he's done in his righteousness, in the faith, in everything. That's what he's doing. And I asked him, I say, is this, I asked the RC and the EO, which one are you? Are you the one crawling up to the cross saying, this is what I add? Or are you the one kneeling saying, I'm not worthy of anything? That's a question. It's a very powerful visual, and it stops them. Now, we can go to James 2. There's a break coming up here in a little bit. What I'm going to do is stall a little bit until the break. We'll come back, and I'll go to James 2, 14 through 26, and I'll show you how to deal with what they're saying. But in the meantime, before we get there, justification is the legal standing of righteousness, and it's by faith alone in Christ alone. And anybody who would add any works to it is saying that the blood of Christ was not sufficient in and of itself to save us and to justify us. Romans 3.28, Paul says, we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. the works of the law are summarized in love God and love your neighbor Matthew 22 37 through 40 and in verse 40 Paul's I mean Jesus says that's the summation of the law so we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law apart from your loving God and loving your neighbor loving God and loving your neighbor is not anything that will contribute towards your salvation or maintaining your salvation. Because if you love God and love your neighbor, and that's how you're justified, then it's by words. Because we can't even love God and love our neighbor properly. Because the standard of righteousness is not ourselves and our own hearts. The standard of righteousness is Jesus Christ himself, who is able to keep the law perfectly. He's the only one who loved God perfectly and loved his neighbor perfectly as well. But what they do in false religions is say that God will understand my ability, my sincerity, my failures. And He will take those into account. So that my faith and what I have done in my sincerity will get salvation. Even though it's not really my works, it's God's works in me and through me, done in righteousness. Titus 3, 5. So the arrogance and the false antichrist gospel that both the Roman Catholic Church and the East Orthodox Church, that they both teach, will lead to eternal damnation because they add words to the finished work of Christ. There's the music. We'll get back. We'll get into James 2, and I'll show you how to respond to that. All right? So hold on, buddy, okay? All right. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Except for one problem. There's no open lines. They're all filled up. So let's get to Chuck from Texas. Chuck, are you still there? Yes, I am. All right. So you're learning. Yeah, you've hit a bunch of verses that I thought you were going to hit, but you're putting it all together real well, so I appreciate it. Well, praise God. Now, on karma, I've written some articles. One of them is always justified by faith, or justified by faith and works. And you can check that out. So let's go through James 2, starting at verse 14, because this is something that they're going to go to all the time. They're going to say faith without works is dead, and that a man is justified by works. apart from the, you know, you'll see. This is what you do. You go to verse 14. What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him? Now the question I ask him at this point is, what kind of faith is he talking about? What is James saying? It's probably just a dead faith, wouldn't you say? Because God grants us faith. That's Philippians 1.29. God grants that we have faith. Philippians 1.29. And Jesus says this is the work of God that you believe on him whom he has sent. So if God grants us faith and that faith is in Jesus, is that a true faith? That's what I ask them. They're going to have to say, well, yes, because it comes from God. Great. And is this true faith here in James? Well, obviously not. Because true faith that comes from God is going to produce all kinds of good things, isn't it? Because it comes with the regenerative work of God, right? And they'll go, yeah. OK, let's continue reading. Verse 15, if a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, go in peace, be warmed and be filled, and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so, faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. Is that the faith that comes from God? and they're going to be stuck. If they say yes, wait a minute, are you saying that it's a false faith? Because in verse 19 it says that demons believe too. Are you saying that's the kind of faith that God's granting them? A demonic faith? Is that what you're saying? But no, well, let's go. I said let's go back. Let's go back. Let's keep reading He says even so faith if it has no works is dead being by itself But someone may well say you have faith and I have works now. This is critical Show me your faith without the works. I will show you my faith by my works This is what's called the horizontal In Romans chapter 4, when I was reading that, what then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, is found? For if Abraham was justified by faith, he has something to boast about, but not before God. That's justification before God. That's the vertical. This is justification before people. This is the horizontal. Because verse 18 is critical. But someone may well say, you have faith and I have works. Show me your faith without the works. I will show you my faith by my works. He's not talking about justification before God. He says, you believe that God is one, you do while the demons also believe and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith that works is useless? Don't just say you have faith. Let's see it. Let me say it. You can say one thing and do another, you hypocrite. Let's see what you really believe. That's what James is getting at. He says, was not Abraham, our father, justified by works when he offered up Isaac, his son, in the altar? What, justified by works before God? Of course not. Before people because of verse 18 you show me yours. I'll show you mine works and this about Abraham and he says you see that Faith was working with his works and as a result of the works faith was perfected. Now, what does that mean? Well, I'll tell you God often what he does is he sends us to do something that we have to go do it We're not so sure and then when we have gone through the trial the ordeal that Testing whatever it might be. Our faith is increased That's what's going on. Because as a result of the works, faith is perfected. And I've got stories in my life, now that I'm 67 years old, I've got stories where I didn't have them when I was a new Christian. I look back and I see God was so faithful, and he has been. And my faith is being perfected through time. That's how God works. And he goes on, and the scripture was fulfilled, saying, and Abraham believed God who was reckoned to him as righteousness. and it was called the Friend of God. Now you say, how was Abraham justified before God according to Romans, excuse me, James 2.23? By belief. But before people, it's by works. That's why he says, you see, a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. It's not justification before God, it's justification before man. Because that's what Romans 4 is about, justification before God. And that's what goes on. In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messenger and sent him out another way? For just as the body without spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead. That's what's going on. It is that if you say you have faith, let's see it. It'll be alive if it's from God, and it'll be manifested in works. But if it's not from God, then no works will be there. So this is justification before people, not before God, because Romans 4, 1 through 6 is justification before God. Okay? Okay, yeah, that's definitely been my understanding of James 2, thanks to karm.org. and listening to your show for a long time, and I appreciate your answer. It's just when my friend said that, you know, the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics, if they're believing in faith plus works, the faith would cover the error of the plus works. So I thank you for the information that you've given. So it'll help me respond to that. I do have a quick prayer request. I know you got other people on the line. On the 28th, I am going to have a discussion, discussion slash debate. with an atheist who calls herself Godless Granny on her podcast, and so that should be an interesting talk, and so I just pray that God will be glorified in that. Good, praise God. If you need some help or tips with atheists, let me know. I've debated so many of them, but you sound like you're quite competent and capable, so praise God, man. Yeah, I'll be using my own form of presuppositional, so it should be interesting. Man, we should stay in contact. Ooh, I like that. Yeah, I actually got to know her because I popped in on Andrew Rappaport's podcast a couple of times when he's been interviewing atheists. And so I got to talk with him a little bit. So that's how I got in contact with her. So I'm looking forward to it. Okay. Sounds good. All right. All right, brother. All right. Thank you, Matt. Take care. God bless. You too. Okay, you too. Bye. All right, that was Chuck out of Texas. Good, good, good. Hope that little lesson was beneficial for people to understand what's going on for justification. And hopefully it sings to the hearts of God's people. Patrick from Charlotte, North Carolina, welcome. You're on the air. Hello, Matt, and thanks for taking my call. I just want to make a comment about Abraham. In Genesis 22, 1, it says God tested Abraham. So did Abraham have to do work by going to take his son to be sacrificed? Do you have to do work? By definition, that's a work. And when God tested him, what was it for? Was it to test and see if God knew Abraham's heart? God already knew Abraham's heart. The test was something that God gave to Abraham to do to prove his faith and to demonstrate, ultimately, the typology of the sacrifice of Christ. That's what's going on there. Okay. Oh, there's a break. Hold on, man. We got a break. Hold on. Hey, folks, we're right back after these messages. We'll get to Patrick. And we'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright, and welcome back to the show. We have two open lines if you want to give me a call. The number is 877-207-2276. Let's get back on with Patrick. Welcome, you're back on the air. Yeah, I'm here. Just one thing about Abraham is Abraham waited until Abraham had the knife to his son's throat, because he was watching him testing his faith. I believe that's why he was credited as righteousness, because he literally was going to sacrifice his son. Do you think God didn't know what Abraham was going to do? God knew, but Abraham didn't. Abraham didn't know that God was going to reveal the ram when he had the knife to his son's throat. I just asked one question. I said, just ask, do you believe that God knew? And I'm glad you said that, that God did know. So the test is not as simple as some people like to make it, to prove that he was justified by faith and works. I certainly hope you're not saying that, are you? Yeah, but the point is he did test Abraham because it says it in scripture. And a test is something that you have to do and see if you pass the test or not. Yeah, Abraham was the one through whom the Messiah was to come. And what he did when he offered up Isaac was to emulate the gospel and the sacrifice of Christ. Because God said to Abraham, take your only begotten son Isaac, go offer him on a hill. And that hill, some scholars think, is the same one Christ was crucified on. It took three days to get to the hill, and Jesus was in the grave three days. And when Isaac said, where's the sacrifice? Abraham says, God will provide for himself the sacrifice. And they caught a ram in a thicket of thorns. Jesus bore the crown of thorns. And it goes on and on and on. So this is what was going on. It was for our benefit and also to test him, not for God to learn, but for Abraham and our benefit. So what's your question, though? What do you got? My question is, who was the author of the Lord's Prayer? Jesus. Okay, if Jesus was the author of the Lord's Prayer, he didn't believe in the Trinity, because the Lord's Prayer has nothing to do with the Trinity. And where does the Lord's Prayer negate the Trinity? That's what I'm saying, is it doesn't. And if the Trinity is so important, Jesus would have had the Holy Spirit in the Lord's Prayer, but he didn't. Oh, so you're telling us how Jesus should have prayed. Wow, that's interesting. I'm telling you that the Trinity doesn't exist. It's a man-made doctrine. Well, um, I would disagree with that, but, uh, so as far as the Lord's prayer goes, that doesn't validate or invalidate anything that you were saying. It's just a prayer, which is our father of art in heaven. So that's not a big deal. Okay. Now, as far as the Trinity goes, uh, John three 16 does the same thing. It doesn't show eternity. John three 16. How do you think the Trinity has arrived at in scripture? It's not in scripture. Man-made people made up the Trinity. I got you. How do you think we Trinitarians arrive at it in scripture? What do we do? We were taught it by somebody else that, that, uh, didn't know the truth. Okay. So that's not the question. How is it, or what do we do with scripture by which and through which we then say, Oh, there's a Trinity. Do you know? You can't, because scripture doesn't prove a trinity. So I'm asking you a question. You see, you have to understand something. The trinity is not established or denied by a single verse. It's a systematic approach. I tell this to people all the time. It's a systematic approach. So if you don't know what that system is, what that approach is in scripture, then you can't say it's true or false. It's just really simple. So you're telling me you don't even know what we Trinitarians do to arrive at it. So you can't believe in something that doesn't exist. You don't know if it exists or not because you don't know how it's arrived at. Well, the Lord's Prayer, Jesus himself doesn't mention the Holy Spirit, and if there are three co-equal persons, the Lord's Prayer should have the Holy Spirit mentioned. Oh, so you're telling us how Jesus should have prayed if the Trinity was true. Okay. No, I'm telling you that the Bible says when you teach Trinitarian, you're teaching a false doctrine. Oh, really? And I have evidence. Let me ask you. It could be the Lord's Prayer in John 3.16. So let me ask you, is Jesus God in flesh? No, Jesus is the Word of God today, according to scripture. So Jesus is the Word, right? John 1, 1, right? In the beginning was the Word, the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, verse 14. So if the Word is God and the Word became flesh, then doesn't that mean Jesus is the Word of God in flesh? No, that means the Word became flesh. It was born of a woman, not God, for 33 years on earth. But the Bible says the Word was God, and then the Word became flesh. When the Word became flesh, that means it changed because it was born of a woman, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, not God. So then, was the Word which was God born of the Virgin Mary? Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, the Son of God, according to God himself at the baptism of Jesus. Is Jesus called the Word? He's the Word today, after the resurrection. I didn't ask that. You see, the problem is, is that you don't answer questions. We've talked before, you know. And you don't, and excuse me, you don't answer questions. You don't do that. You, it's pretty typical. It's pretty typical that you won't answer just direct questions. The Bible says in the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. Okay. Now, it says, is Jesus the word of God now? Yes, today he is, yes. He's sitting at the right hand side of God. Good, good. Okay, good. So when Jesus was walking on earth, was he the word of God? No, according to God himself at the baptism, he's the son of God. So wait a minute, so Jesus, so the word that became flesh the word was God, became flesh, which is Jesus, who's not God, who then became the word of God again? Right? No, if you go to John 17, 5, Jesus said, Father, glorify me with the glory I had with you from the beginning. And he was speaking about Jesus was asking God to make him the word of God again, which happened at the resurrection. make him the Word of God again. So this good Trinitarian verse actually you're using, you're actually helping my case, but you have a problem with continuity. You have to understand something. For example, an angel can't become a man. An angel cannot change its nature, stop being an angel, and then become a man. You're not listening. I'm trying to help you out. I'm trying to tell you about basic logic and why you need to think critically, but you're not doing it. As an example, an angel can't become a man because an angel, to do that, has to change its nature into something it is not. But the identity of the angel is tied with its nature. If the nature ceases, then the angel ceases. So it can't become something it's not. So the Word, you're saying the Word, which was God, is becoming Jesus, who's not God. Now you're saying that the Word, the nature of God, is stopping being God. How's that possible? Because it said the Word became flesh. It's not the Word anymore, it's the human being, flesh. So the Word... Just like an angel can't be born of a woman. So, so a word, the word of what was God stopped being God when it became flesh? Yes, it became flesh according to scripture. So the word, which was God stopped having the characteristics of God and then became something it was not. And then changed again and became another something. It was not God said, this is my son. Yes, I got that. Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, you don't think critically. You couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag. You don't know what's going on. You don't listen. You can't think. You don't know what's going on. And we'll need to move along because we've had many conversations with this guy. Let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome here on the air. Hey, Jermaine, you there? Oh, sorry about that. That's all right, man. Just dealing with an obstreperous heretic. So we just move along. All right. Yeah, I actually learned a lot in that interchange and another time. But I just want to ask. So a lot of believers and I've been there myself at times where we think that's it. We're going to die. Is it a sin to be afraid of death? You know, I think it's like being Hezekiah, but I've heard some people say, oh, it's a lack of faith and you're not ready. And I'm like, you know, it's easy to say that until you've been in those situations. There are lots of people when they get older, like me, where death becomes an echo of the future that you're starting to hear louder and louder. When we get back from the break, I'll talk about that a little bit, and we'll talk, okay? Hey, folks, be right back after these messages and get back with Germaine on this interesting and relatable topic. Be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. Jermaine, are you still there? Yes, I am. All right. So you were asking, is it a sin for believers to be afraid of death? You know, I'm glad you asked that question because just lately I've been thinking I'm going to die soon. And I even talked to my wife about it. It's like it's going to happen real soon. And it probably won't, because people get afraid. They get, you know, coincidences happen. Their mind starts playing games and things like that. So who knows? And you know what's interesting? It doesn't matter to me. I've actually got to a place where that's OK, because I go be with my Lord. So dying is a scary thing, but I'm not worried about where to go. So when people are, you know, we get back to this topic, a believer being afraid to die, I don't think that's a bad thing, because the process, the unexpected, the pain, the suffering, All of this is before us, and what we need to do the best we can is to just trust in God beyond our ability to see and understand. I remember when I was assistant pastor at a church, I had to do visitations, and I still remember this one woman. She was in her 90s, and she was on her deathbed, and she passed away two weeks after I saw her. I still remember a conversation that she and I had. She knew she was dying. And we just got talking, and she was excited. She said, I'm going to go home. I'm going to be with my Lord, because I'm looking forward to it. Never forgot that. So sometimes what we do as Christians is we fear the process and we hope in the result. And our confidence is in Him. So if God were to take me now, later, in 10 years, in 20 years, It's up to Him. And I'm okay with that. And that's the attitude we as Christians should have. He gives us time. He gives us what we need for His glory. And if we put our faith and our hope in Him, then we don't have to fear. And so if we do, just lay before God. He understands. Okay? That's great. I actually had an aunt who, she was told she was going to die by the doctor. She was getting ready for hospice or actually ventilator. They told her if she goes on, she's not coming out, say goodbye. She had family fly out and she prayed like Hezekiah for just more time. She just, she wasn't afraid. She just didn't want to leave her family just yet. And she's here a year and a half later, you know, just defying all the doctor's odds. So, You know, I can kind of see it from that angle too, just not ready to go yet. Yeah. And I think God's work is to give us peace. I have a peace. When God wants it, that's good. I'm good with that. But I pray for more time, just like she did. So she wanted to minister to others and have others be able to say goodbye. And God grants that to us. And I want to serve him longer. So maybe it's the enemy doing his thing. You never know, which is why we don't live in fear. We live in trust and hope. We know what Jesus did. We can bring glory to Him even in that. That's what I say. Okay? Alright. Well, thank you, Matt. I appreciate it. Alright, brother. God bless. Alright. Now, I want to get to, uh, let's see, Nick. Oh, we've got two people commenting with a Trinity. Interesting. Mona from Dayton, Ohio. You've got a little bit longer wait than Bonnie, but what do you got? Hi. Um, so this thing with the Trinity and the guy that said that he didn't think that it existed. Yeah. Is that what he said? Yeah. He denied it, but he doesn't know how it's arrived at. He doesn't understand it. We've talked many times. Okay. So I started studying for myself. and got the Strongs and the Greek and all the rest of this. So didn't Jesus say, did he say it was expedient for you, for me to go away? And I will pray the Father send you another? Yeah. Yes. Okay. So then is that when the Trinity was born? No, the Trinity has always existed because that's what God is. He's a Trinity. Okay. All right. I just was wondering about that because The Holy Ghost, or the Paraclete, is what the Greek word is. Someone was going to walk along and say that he's still here today. So I just was wondering if it was at that point that the Trinity was born. No, the Trinity is revealed in the Old Testament, or hinted at in the Old and revealed fully in the New. If you go to Genesis 1.26, God, which is a plural word, God, says, let us make man in our image according to our likeness. Three plurals in the plural word of God himself, which is also used as one God. Which is really interesting. The Spirit of God was there with God in the beginning, and He spoke, and that's the Word. And so, the Trinity is in the Old Testament. I've written an article on it. But the Trinity doctrine wasn't formalized until later. But the truth of who God is, is always there. And God has always been triune. It's logically necessary, and it's scripturally true. Okay, no problem. Alright. Okay, well thank you a lot. Alright, God bless. Bye-bye. Okay. Before we get to the next caller, Bonnie, here in a sec, what I want to say is if you are interested in learning about the Trinity, go to CARM, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and just go forward slash Trinity, and what you'll find is an article there, which I wrote years ago, and it explains the Trinity and how it's arrived at from Scripture. It's right there. It's very easy to do. Welcome, you're on the air. Bonnie, you there? Hello. Hello. Bonnie, I heard you coughing. I'm looking for you. How you doing, Matt? Oh, it's Bonnie, but I guess it's not Bonnie. What do you got, man? What's up? Yeah, yeah, Matt. Yeah, I'm here. OK. Yeah, you. Um, yeah, you just got to explain in, uh, Genesis, uh, 1 26. And I'm relating to, uh, the guy that was saying that it's not a Trinity. And you were saying that, um, it's in Genesis 1 26. It's hinted at in Genesis 126. So I'm like this Okay, why? the Holy Bible that we have So everything that you have a red site to the callers You have quote scriptures that in the scriptures because I've been following along Okay And why is it that the Trinity is not in the Scriptures? It is. So I'm like this, is you believe what you can read that God allowed us to have in this Holy Bible. The Trinity's arrived at systematically. You have to look at the whole of Scripture. That's how it's arrived at. And the critics of the Trinity, when I ask them, please tell me how the Trinity's arrived at, they don't know. If it's arrived at systematically, and they don't understand that system, they cannot say it's true or false. Well, there's a lot of people that it's a lot of our listeners that's listening to you and they probably like me or you know they they wandering and they got family members and they're not you know they go to church and they confuse based on a lot of things that you'd be saying for understanding the scriptures you know say basically I believe that God is not an author of confusion and what he left on I know, but the trinity is true. The trinity is true. What church do you go to? Are you Hebrew? I am a follower of Christ. I am a follower of the apostle doctrine that Jesus said he taught all he had twelve apostles. I just asked what group you go to. What group are you in? No, I'm not in a group because this world is not right. You know, I'm led by the Holy Spirit. I'm led by the Holy Spirit. Okay. Let me ask you, do you believe Jesus Christ is God in flesh? No. Okay. Well, then you're not a Christian. No, well, that's what you say, but the Bible says that the Father and the Son, that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and the Word became flesh. So God sent his Son. three fifteen right you know will hold on hold on hold on hold on hold it so you just quoted john one one in verse fourteen where the word was god who became flesh that's jesus who's in the flesh and these jesus is the word jesus is god well he's got he's my god and my lord and savior but is only one god in all existence Well yeah, it is one God. How can Jesus be God and pray to God the Father? How can Jesus be God? It is one God, but in the scriptures that I'm reading, and everybody can see, that it says, let us make man Right? Let us make man. You're not answering the question, though. I said, how can Jesus be God? You just called him God, and he prays to God the Father. How, then, can there be only one God, from your perspective? Well, Thomas, okay, God in the flesh. God in the flesh. So Jesus is God in flesh. Because God made a body in Mary. God sent his Son. Let me ask you another question. Just curious. What do you have to do to have your sins forgiven? You have to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Okay. So you're a oneness Pentecostal oneness person? No, I'm not. I'm no, I'm not a Pentecostal. I've been that done. I've been in all kinds of churches. I've been in all kinds of churches, Pentecostal, the word church, holiness churches and everything. You know what I'm saying? But I'm, I'm saying Jesus told them that you, that if we can go to the eunuch, we can go to the eunuch and the eunuch said, what I, what do I have? He didn't understand, but he asked, Philip what I have to do to be saved because he was trying to read it and he couldn't understand Yeah, what do I do and he said get baptized that's right and the baptism there was the baptism there was not immersion the baptism there was not immersion because they both went down into the water. He went down into water. The unit went down into water. Yes. Yes, I know. Both of them did. So you, okay. Hey, guy, can you stop? Okay, we're done. We're done. I'm just not going to let that happen. We're almost out of time anyway. I've talked to many, many, many, many, many people over the years who do that. They just continue to steamroll and then it just becomes useless and we're almost out of time anyway. Okay, folks, look. I'll be out of the studio. I won't be on the air tomorrow, Friday live, nor Monday live. I've got things going. I'll be at a conference in Southern California at the Calvary Chapel. Your Belinda this weekend, which is the weekend of the 13th, 14th, 15th. All right, there you go. May the Lord bless you. And one more quick thing. Please pray for us. And if you wanna support us, we could really use that. But no, the way to do that is just go to karm.org forward slash donate. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G forward slash donate. We could use five or $10 a month, it'd be great. May the Lord bless you and by His grace, back on the air on Tuesday. And we'll talk to you then. Have a good one, everyone. God bless. another program powered by the Truth Network.