Very good. Welcome, Brother Nettles. We are ready for this morning. Well, hearing the particular testimonies that I heard, I think that our talk this morning is going to be very pertinent. Escuchando los testimonios que escuchamos, creo que está muy adecuado en nuestro estudio esta mañana. Let me lead in a word of prayer before I get into this. May I please? Absolutely. Absolutely. God and Father of our Lord Jesus, we thank you for this opportunity to have fellowship in your truth. We pray that you will open our minds and our hearts to receive what you have said. Pedimos que abres nuestros corazones y mentes a recibir lo que has dicho tú. And that through your truth, your spirit will strengthen us for meaningful and faithful ministry. Que a través de tu espíritu nos fortaleza por el ministerio y servicio significante. So God, our discussion now, we ask for the glory of Christ. Amen. Amen. Well, as you recall, we've been talking about the issue of Baptist identity. I like to talk about Baptist identity because we are known by more than just our distinctives. We want to embrace as much of the entire Bible as we can possibly understand and implement. And throughout the history of the church, the doctrines of Scripture fall sort of into four different categories. We've talked about the first one as being orthodoxy. This deals with God as a revealing God, God as Trinity, and the person of Christ. These are absolutely necessary areas to embrace in order to be a Christian. The second area we looked at was evangelicalism. This deals with the doctrines of salvation that arose out of the Reformation in opposition to Roman Catholicism. It deals with the final authority of Scripture alone, That we're saved only by the grace of God. That this grace is received not from the hands of a priest, but solely by faith. And that The work of the Spirit will cause those who are genuinely born again to persevere in the faith. Evangelicalism sees the work of salvation done by Christ alone. He alone has borne our sins in his own body on the tree. And through that death we have forgiveness of sins because he has received the wrath we deserve. Also essential to our salvation is His perfect life of obedience. Christ perfectly obeyed the law, all the will of His Father, even the positive command of death, the just for the unjust. And that righteousness that He has is imputed to us. So through Him alone we have forgiveness and we have complete perfection. So the issue of orthodoxy leads naturally into an understanding of evangelicalism through Christ. El asunto de ortodoxia lleva naturalmente a evangélicos naturalmente por Cristo. And the necessity of faith in Christ leads us to an understanding of what a confession is. Y nuestra necesidad de fe en Cristo nos lleva a un entendimiento que es una confesión. So that is the third area that we've looked at, confessions and catechisms. In order to have faith, we must have the knowledge of the truth. And having a knowledge of the truth means that with our heart, We must confess that truth and our dependence upon it. And it is out of this kind of knowledge and heart confession that the church is established. So this leads us to the fourth element of Baptist identity. Este nos lleva a cuatro elementos de identidad bautista. Which is Baptist, let's see, Baptists are separate. Los bautistas son separados. Now, I use a longer theological phrase. Baptists have a theologically integrated ecclesiology. Los bautistas tienen una eclesiología integrado bautista. That is, as Baptists, we believe that there is a maturity of all of these other areas that comes to play in Baptist ecclesiology. Esto quiere decir que hay una madurez que llega a ser evidente en la eclesiología bautista. So there's a maturity in orthodoxy that we express in our ecclesiology. Hay una madurez en ortodoxia que expresamos en nuestra eclesiología. There's a maturity of evangelicalism that we express in our ecclesiology. And there's a maturity of confessions that we express in our ecclesiology. So today, that's what we're going to talk about, this theologically integrated ecclesiology. Now, a man that we can identify perhaps as the first pastor of a particular Baptist church was named John Spilsbury. Un hombre que podemos identificar como el primer pastor de una iglesia bautista particular era John Spilsbury. Now, earlier, we have men like John Smith and Thomas Helwes that were pastors of general Baptist churches. Hombres como John Smith, and what was the other one? Thomas Helwes. Y Thomas Helwes eran pastores de los bautistas generales. Those churches were Arminian in their theology. The particular Baptists were Calvinistic in their view of salvation. And John Spilsbury is the first person we know that actually served as pastor of a particular Baptist church. In one of his writings, he talked about four elements that were necessary for establishing a true church. In one of his writings, he talked about four elements that were necessary for establishing a true church. The first of these elements was the Word of God. The first element is the Word of God. And when he discussed the Word of God, he says, the Word of God is to fit and prepare the matter for the form. El dijo, cuando habla de la palabra de Dios, la palabra de Dios debe ajustar y preparar el... The matter for the form. La masa para la forma. The matter would be The people themselves that are converted. La masa sera la gente que estaban listos para conformar. The form is the particular rules that govern what a church is. La forma era los reglas particulares que gobierna que es una iglesia. And so, in this very first one, he says, the Word of God leads to conversion, which then leads to the church. The second element necessary for a true church was what he called a confession of faith. Now, the confession of faith declares the fitness of the matter for the form. La confesión de fe declara el... Fitness, appropriateness. Felipe, ayúdame con la fitness. Aptitude. So people will not be accepted into the church according to Spillsbury. Unless they constate their acceptance of what the Word of God has taught them. So this confession of faith then shows the unity of belief of these people who have been so prepared. This leads then to the third element of a true church. This is what Spillsbury called the free and mutual consent and agreement of these particular persons. upon the practice of the same truth, believed and confessed. So now we begin to have a body of people who have been converted and who have come to believe the same things that the scripture teaches. It's at that point that this body agrees to practice the ordinances as set forth in Scripture. It's at this point that this body begins to practice the ordinances set forth in Scripture. The fourth element. The fourth element. is that the Spirit of Christ unites and knits their hearts together. Es que el Espíritu de Cristo une y teja sus corazones juntos. In that same truth they have learned and confessed. En la misma verdad de lo que han aprendido y confesan. Now we have to realize that Spillsbury is writing this to people who did not believe he had the right to start a church de novo. What right did he have simply to begin baptism? How was baptism valid if it were not received through apostolic succession? ¿Cómo podemos aplicar bautismo si no fue por la sucesión de apostólico? Spilsberg responded, it is through apostolic succession, through the writings of the apostles. So that is why he was so detailed in outlining these four steps for establishing a church. So we We see that in the beginning of Baptist life, these elements all were necessary. We see his affirming essentially what is orthodoxy. We see his affirming evangelicalism. We see that confession is necessary for the being of the church. Confession is necessary for the being of the church. And that obeying the word and practicing the ordinances is that which finally seals the unity of the people. And that obeying the word and its ordinances is what seals the unity of the people. Given that historical and theological beginning, let's look at some of the things that Baptists believe are distinctive of their church order. Now, within Baptist life, there has been disagreement as to whether or not there is such a thing as a universal church. It is clear that the vast majority of the uses of the word church refer to a local church in the New Testament. Es evidente que los usos en el Nuevo Testamento, la mayoría de la palabra iglesia, refieren a una iglesia local. Like the seven churches of Revelation. Como las siete iglesias de Apocalipsis. And when Paul wrote to the different churches, he was writing to them as individual local churches. Y cuando Pablo escribe a las iglesias, estaba escribiéndolos a iglesias individuales o locales. But we do have some uses of the word that appear to talk about all of the elect throughout all of the ages as forming an assembly of believers in eternity. Just one of these, I think, is in Ephesians 1. in verses 20 and 21. That text says, well, I'll start with verse 21. Where Christ has been seated far above all rule and authority and power and dominion. And above every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet. and gave him his head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all. Since the writer, since Paul is talking about not only in this age, but also the one to come, And he's talking about Christ's universal rule. It seems that he has in mind the believers of all ages. Yes, and he's called them the church. So we don't reject, at least I don't reject the concept of a universal church. Yo no rechazo el concepto de una iglesia universal. But the church that we deal with and that we serve as pastors and teachers. La iglesia que nosotros tratamos y servimos como pastores y maestros. Fits into the category of local churches. So the church, Baptists have believed, is a local and particular manifestation of the body of Christ. And as much as is possible in a fallen world, it should obey all the things that are stated in Scripture about the church. We know that the churches in the New Testament were composed of believers. We know that those that were baptized on the day of Pentecost were believers. Sabemos que los que fueron bautizados en el día de Pentecostes eran creyentes. And that when the church in Jerusalem was functioning and worshiping, it was doing it as believers. Y cuando la iglesia en Jerusalén estaba funcionando, adorando, estaban haciendo esto como creyentes. We know that when Jesus gave the Great Commission, He instructed the disciples to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. And then he says, baptizing them, meaning baptizing those disciples, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. That means, under the authority of and into the faith of this Trinitarian understanding of God. Those that were so baptized were to be taught all things in which Christ had instructed them. Now we know that Christ considered the things that he commanded the disciples to consist also of the subsequent operations of the Holy Spirit. He had promised them in John 14 through 16 that the Spirit would come and remind them of all things. You would take the things of Christ and show it to them. So we see in the writings of the apostles, the completion of the instructions of Christ. Therefore, if we want to know the things in which our churches are to be instructed, We will find these things, for the most part, in the epistles of the New Testament. Obviously, Christ himself has taught us many things. about the church itself, but we learn more details in the writings of the apostles, because it was through their work that the Holy Spirit gathers together these local churches. So one of the first things that Baptists affirm about the church is that it should consist of regenerate persons only. One of the first things that Baptists distinguish is that it should consist of regenerate persons only. All of the instructions we have in the New Testament assume that they are writing to regenerate people. And they have committed themselves to one another in this body known as the church. through baptism. Each of them has taken upon themselves a profession of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. They have done this in a public manner. They're testifying that each of them has experienced that one faith that is set forth in the symbol of baptism. This is the reason that Paul begins his statement of unities in the faith in Ephesians 4, with one Lord, One faith, one baptism. Then of course it goes on with the other points of unity, but that sets forth the idea that they have joined together in one faith, through one experience of faith, I'm getting too long here. I know. It's okay. El sigue diciendo otras unidades en la fe, pero el empieza ahí diciendo que tiene un Señor y una unidad de fe. That consists in the work of Christ that he did in his incarnation. Que consiste en la obra de Cristo que el hizo en su incarnación. One Lord. Un Señor. and that we have entered into that work of Christ by faith manifest through baptism. And so Baptists believe that you do not have a church unless people have voluntarily come together by profession of faith and baptism. We love and want to have as much fellowship with brethren who do not accept believers baptism. We believe that they have assumed a doctrine of baptism that is simply not taught in Scripture. They seek to defend it by what they call good and necessary consequences. By which they mean that circumcision and baptism are coordinate with each other in the two testaments. De lo cual quieren decir que bautismo y circuncision son iguales en los dos testamentos. So that circumcision of infants translates into baptism of infants in the New Testament. Ellos dicen que circuncision de infantes traslade al bautismo de infantes en el Nuevo Testamento. And that seems very neat and very precise and very intertestamental. The problem is that is not how the New Testament treats circumcision. The New Testament treats circumcision as being fulfilled in regeneration, not in baptism. The New Testament treats circumcision as being fulfilled in regeneration in the New Testament, not in baptism. Among other places, Paul testifies to this in Philippians 3. In other places, but specifically, Paul testifies to this in Philippians 3. Where he says, we are the true circumcision. Sorry, I cut out for a second. Yeah, where he says, we are the true circumcision. Donde el dice que somos la verdadera circumcision. Who worship by the spirit of God. Quien adoramos por el espiritu de Dios. who glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh. And so circumcision, the true circumcision, is that which is given to the heart by the Holy Spirit. who calls us to glory in the completed work of Christ. An infant cannot glory in the completed work of Christ. So while we have fellowship with them and believe that they are true believers, and can affirm that their churches are real churches. But we would say they are corrupted churches on this point. Because they do not exist solely on the basis of believers' baptism. This is an idea that is being challenged today. There are some very popular Baptist churches who are wanting to receive members who have not been baptized as believers. But I do not think they have any New Testament warrant for that. Because if they themselves are not convinced of believers baptism, then soon they will want their children or their grandchildren baptized as infants. Entonces, prontamente van a tener sus bebés o sus nietos bautizados como infantes. Then the church will be faced with a great dilemma. Y la iglesia va a ser confrontado con un gran problema. Okay, I'll move on to the next point now. Voy a mover al siguiente punto. Regenerate church membership. This is effected by believers baptism. And a third point is that The life of the local church grows in grace through the hearing of the preaching of the word. We believe what the writer of Hebrews said when he said, forsaking not the assembling of yourselves together. We accept the goodness of the gifts of the pastor-teacher. And that the pastor-teacher now seeks to bring us into a unity in the faith. And in the knowledge of the Son of God. through the preaching of the revealed word. And it is through this that each of the members discovers the gifts that the Spirit has given them. And they grow in personal conformity to the holiness of Christ. And these members, using their gifts and growing in holiness, create a greater and greater unity. As Paul says, as each part does its work, we grow up into the fullness of the stature of Christ. So a third element is body life in hearing the preaching of the word for spiritual growth. Entonces, un tercer elemento es el crecimiento de la vida de la iglesia por la predicación del palabra. Another aspect of local church life is discipline of the local congregation. Otro aspecto de la vida de la iglesia es disciplina en la congregación local. Since we assume that members of the church are regenerate. And that only the regenerate will be granted gifts by the Holy Spirit. And that only the regenerate can grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. When there are those among us who consistently manifest a life that is not characteristic of regeneration, then it becomes the duty of the congregation to discipline that person. That is, in love to separate them from the congregation with the prayer and the hope that this will shock them into seeing that their lifestyle has been something that has detracted from the witness of the church. The idea is if they are regenerate, this will be a witness of the Spirit to them to bring them to repentance. And that if they genuinely are not regenerate, They will simply resent the action and move further and further away from the faith. This is always a sad event when it happens. But it is something that Christ himself has taught us. as to how such a thing should move from perhaps a personal offense to being a matter that the whole church considers? ¿Cómo algo debe mover de un asunto personal a algo que toda la iglesia debe considerar? What Paul speaks about in public offenses and public immorality. Where such a person is to be removed from their midst. so that he will not be the leaven of evil in the congregation. And with the prayer that the subjection of his body to being excluded from the congregation, it will energize his understanding of the life of the Spirit. El va a alimentar su entendimiento de la vida del Espíritu Santo. And will desire that spiritual fellowship again. Y deseamos esta comunión espiritual de nuevo. So Paul said, I have delivered his flesh over to Satan. Pablo dijo, ha entregado su carne a Satanás. that his spirit may be saved in the day of judgment. So we see that the discipline in the local congregation is advocated both by Christ and by the apostles. It looks at different kinds of disciplines, some beginning with private offenses, some beginning with very public offenses. Ve diferentes tipos de disciplina, uno empezando con asuntos privados y unos muy públicos. And it gives various details as to how these persons are to be treated. Y da detalles, varios detalles como debe ser tratado a estas personas. And every person who begins a process of discipline, every pastor who begins a process of discipline, must make sure that he understands the biblical material concerning it. so that he will proceed according to the truth of God's word. This can be something very damaging if we simply resort to our own wisdom and are not aware of what scripture says about it. But the whole assumption behind discipline is that the church should be composed of regenerate persons only. Now, this concept of the regenerate church has also led Baptists to take a particular position on the relationship between church and state. Also, this position of the regenerated membership in the Baptist churches causes the Baptist church to take a very direct position between the state and the church. The Baptist church emerged in a situation where there was a state church. And Baptists were persecuted and imprisoned because they dissented from the state church. They believed that the king and magistrates were to keep public order. protecting the goods and the bodies of those that were citizens, but they had no competence to deal with the souls of people. And therefore, the church must be allowed to function within a society without special favors from the magistrate without any authority from the magistrate seeking to favor that church, but seeking to gain its adherence solely by the power of truth. Because of separation of church and state, Baptists have also believed in what is called liberty of conscience. In that way, the church will be pure and will govern itself according to scriptural principles. Baptists have believed that it is much better to be in a situation where they would be persecuted for their desires to have a pure congregation than to be in a situation where the magistrate is actually instructing people to become members of such a church. But overall, Baptists have sought to argue for a free church in a free state. All right, well, that's all I'm going to say about that. But I hope that we can see how all of these four components work together to create Baptist identity. All right, are there any questions, anything that we want to talk about now? I wanted to ask a question, Jonathan. Go ahead. You probably talked about this before, and I apologize if that's the case. If the doctrine of baptism is so fundamental when we talk about the unity of the Church, then how does this doctrinal difference of baptism affect our relationship and unity with the Presbyterian Churches? So if our doctrine of baptism is so important, how does it affect our relationship with Presbyterians? Well, this is one reason that we've talked about Baptist identity, not Baptist distinctives. Fellowship with Presbyterians should be sound, although we do not accept Presbyterians as members of Baptist churches. Our relationship with Presbyterians should be good, even though we don't receive them as members of our churches. We know that they are orthodox, which are very important doctrines. We know that their doctrines of salvation are evangelical. Sabemos que sus doctrinas de salvación son evangélicos. And that they're very strong on the issue of confessions. Y que son muy fuertes en el asunto de confesiones. So we can engage in fellowship with Presbyterians at many different levels and cooperate with them in certain aspects even of religious life. But when it comes to our church fellowships, we maintain our distinctives. Gracias, hermano. Yo pensaba en el aspecto del bautismo referido por Pablo en Efesios 4 con respecto a la iglesia universal. Y hay como que una cierta preocupación si este aspecto es tan fundamental en la mente de Pablo para definir la iglesia universal, la identidad de una iglesia universal. Yeah, he's referring to, he said, his question was, he wanted to say, from an aspect of Ephesians 4, one Lord, one faith, one baptism. If that is a distinctive of the universal church, how does it reflect how we view the Presbyterian church? That's a difficult question. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, as I said, I believe they are a church, but a corrupt church. In fact, I believe that Roman Catholicism has certain elements that make them a church. But they are a highly corrupt church. Are there any believers within Roman Catholicism? Is it possible for them to repeat the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed week after week and not be moved upon by the Spirit actually to believe that? So I would say if they really believe that, that God has saved them and they are within a congregation that has some semblance of ordinances and organization, but highly corrupt. Yo diría que ellos, si ellos creen esto, pueden ser salvos y pueden estar adentro de una organización que tienen unos símbolos, pero son sumamente corrompidas. Yeah. I have a question, Dr. Nettles, for these guys. How does that affect our communion with them at the table? ¿Cómo afecta nuestra comunión con ellos en la mesa? In the Lord's table, en la mesa del Señor. You want them to respond, or do you want me to respond? For you to respond. So, someone comes to your church who is Presbyterian, and you have the Lord's Supper. Well, I think the Scripture is clear that the church is composed of degenerate persons, and it's talking about the local church. We are responsible for maintaining the purity of the witness and the worship of our local church. People enter into our local congregation through baptism upon profession of faith. Or in some occasions, people come from other churches with a sound testimony that they have been baptized as believers. And we maintain purity through the preaching of the word and through church discipline. So those who do not regularly come and hear the preaching of the word. And who are not subject to the discipline of our church. y que no son sujetos de disciplina en nuestra iglesia, should not take the Lord's Supper with our church, no deben tomar sin el Señor con nuestra iglesia. Because it is at the point of being excluded from the Lord's Supper that we have the first aspect of discipline, of exclusion from the congregation. So the person that we have no right to discipline, We have no right to invite to the supper. We have a couple of questions here. What age is a good age to baptize in the church? I don't think there's any particular age that you should establish, that you should say, no one before they're 12 years old. I don't think that that's the kind of rule that you should make. No creo que debe ser una regla que debes hacer, por ejemplo, nadie abajo de 12 años. But the pastor should understand the characteristics of belief and regeneration. So that in an interview with any person who is wanting to pursue baptism, they should be able, through a process of counseling and hearing a testimony and hearing statements of belief to come to some conclusion as to whether or not the person has been born again. And if we have good reason to believe that the person has been born again, then we cannot. Then it is not up to us to keep them from baptism. We will not be infallible in this. The apostles themselves were not. But to determine whether or not a person has believed as much as humanly possible. And to obey the command to baptize disciples. is the particular task that the person called as a pastor must undertake. Juan Carlos. He has two questions. La primera tiene que ver con quién puede oficializar la bautismo en SENA. Por ejemplo, nosotros tenemos ciertas preguntas con respecto a que algunos pastores son reconocidos en sus iglesias, pastorean sus iglesias, predican sus iglesias, pero no pueden bautizar y no pueden oficializar la SENA en SENA, sino tienen que pedir asistencia a algunos otros pastores que tienen cierto reconocimiento antiguo. He had two questions. First, Who can administer baptism in the Lord's Supper? There's something going on in their churches where pastors pastoring the churches, unless they have a certain authority from the association or the convention cannot administer those and they must have another pastor come in and do that. I don't know what's going on there, but that's what's going on there in Mexico. I don't see in the New Testament or in Baptist history the understanding that Baptists have had of the New Testament on this issue, that there's any authority above the local church except the work of Christ and the work of the Spirit in that church. Now, obviously, the apostles had an infallible word and could tell the churches what to do. We see that throughout the New Testament and the apostolic writings. Like Paul could tell the Corinthians, if a person does not obey my instruction in this letter, don't listen to it. And so the apostles as well as the New Testament prophets were given to the church for a specific time. And when their instructions and their writings were complete, Then each congregation has that authoritative instruction from the apostles in the New Testament. Entonces, cada iglesia tenía esa autoridad y esa instrucción de los apóstoles. And each church has the gifts given to it by Christ by his resurrection and ascension. Y cada iglesia tiene los dones dado a ellos por Cristo y por su ascensión. And those gifts, as they exist in the ongoing church today, are pastor-teachers. And so within each congregation, Christ has given gifts and has given authority. And they themselves are to carry out the ordinances according to the revealed word of God. So the church itself sets apart the gifted person who is to maintain the order both of preaching and the ordinances in the church. So I think that that means that for almost all the time, the person who is the pastor of the local congregation, selected by that congregation, is authorized by the New Testament to practice the ordinances with the congregation. that there is not an authority outside that local congregation that can impose its will on the congregation. No hay una autoridad afuera de esa iglesia local que puede imponer su voluntad sobre la congregación. Is that getting at the question? ¿Ese es el declaro? Carlos, ¿es el declaro ese? Sí, es claro. Lo que pasa es que de alguna manera he observado que la autoridad de la iglesia en reconocer a sus pastores, por lo menos en el alcance que yo tengo acá de alianza o convención, tiene ciertas limitaciones. Entonces, he escuchado expresiones como un pastor que no ha sido ordenado según la tradition that you have, then your vocation is not valid, it is not valid to have the Lord. So, obviously, it goes against what we are understanding of the authority that the Church has to be able to carry out these ordinances and that it can do them well. That is where we are clear. The detail is how we carry nuestra práctica como iglesia local sin que pareciera que nosotros estamos saliendo de el acuerdo que se tiene de una manera consensada, porque al final hay un consenso entre los mismos factores y convenciones. Es un acuerdo. Y nosotros no estamos dentro de ese acuerdo que se ha establecido. It looks bad, it looks like impunity, it looks like rebellion, obscenity, all the negative things, right? Yeah. Let me ask this question. So I think what he's saying is this is what the convention is. They have an agreement. that they have some role in saying who is sufficiently ordained to administer the Lord's Supper and baptism. And they're imposing an authority saying their ordination is not valid because we don't approve or something. And so it seems like they have to pass these tests to get to that point, right? So he's asking, if we're not in agreement with that then, Are we outside of that group? Are we outside of that authority? Well, it's a very complex question because it deals with intricacies in relationships. It's a complex question because it deals with things within the relationship. So what is the relationship of the church to the denomination? What is the relationship of the denomination to each local church? So the denomination can set forth rules by which it will receive churches into its fellowship. We're going through something like that in Southern Baptist life right now. So can a denomination exist if it has a confession of faith but will receive churches in that do not abide by the confession of faith? So if this is a matter of a church not abiding by the confession of faith, the Convention should be free to exclude that church from the Convention. If it is a matter of faith, according to the Declaration of Faith of the Convention, the Convention can exclude this church from what it believes. But the denomination or association is not free to go into the internal workings of the church and seek to impose its will on the local church. And the local church, if it finds itself out of agreement with the convention, can very easily simply separate itself from the convention. Entonces una iglesia que está fuera de esta convención puede fácilmente separarse de esta convención. Now, does the denomination or the convention own the property? La denominación o convención es dueño de propiedad. If so, and the congregation feels strongly enough about it, it simply would need to separate, give the property back, and start its own congregation with its own property. Si, si, entonces la congregación debe separarse de la convención y regresar a propiedad y empezar una iglesia con su propia propiedad. And that's a short, simple answer for something that's a much more complex relationship. That's a much more complex conversation, right? Those are general principles, I think. Those are general principles. The second question is easier. Oh, was that still the first? That was still the first. For example, when we talk about optimism, we know that it is immersion. We understand it clearly. We understand that aspiration does not symbolize everything that it really means. But when we talk about the Lord's dinner, I would also like to define the form a little bit, because I have been to some Lord's dinners and, for example, there is one where they put a table, they put the bread, they put the wine. And each one serves and breaks, each one breaks the bread. And there are others where the pastor is the one who breaks the bread and then the yakos serve the people this bread. So there is a... So, we have our form in baptism in the manner in which we're baptized. We believe it's important by immersion because of what it symbolizes. Is it the same with the Lord's Supper? Is there a manner in which we should do it that is a right symbol? About more in breaking of the bread. So should the pastor break the bread or should each person break the bread? I don't think that we have sufficient guidance in that. I think that probably in the New Testament, when Jesus did the Lord's Supper, each person partook of the cup themselves. Perhaps each person broke the bread off themselves. I think the important things I think those are simply sort of we might call accidental circumstances, but the essence has to do with bread and wine. Yeah, so those are accidental circumstances. Maybe each person in the Assumption of the Lord, instituted by Christ, took their own bread, broke their own bread, and drank their own cup. However, those were accidental circumstances, not intentional. But what is important is bread and wine, what is symbolic. that is always combined with the word. There is nothing that is sacramental at all in the elements. It is in the eating of the bread that the truth of Christ's body being broken for us is symbolized. It is in drinking the wine or the crushed grape that the shading of his blood for us is symbolized. And it is in the power of the Spirit taking truth and applying it to the mind in those strong symbols that we find our sense of union with Christ enhanced. It's in the poder del Espirito aplicando en nuestra mente que vemos los significados de esos elementos iluminados. Amen. Anyone else have a question? Freddy, hermano Freddy, tiene una pregunta. Oh, you're on mute, Freddy. We can't hear you. I just wanted to comment that there are some differences about whether it's done in the morning, at dinner, because it's breakfast, or it's done at night. But Emmanuel Freddie wants to know, it's a supper, we call it the Lord's Supper, but if we do it in the morning, does that make it a breakfast? Is it symbolic? I've heard this, you know, and I wondered, what in the world? So the question would be, is it important to do it morning or evening, or is that symbolic? W.A. Criswell always did it in the evening. He said, it's not the Lord's lunch. The Lord's supper. But he was using supper in a very southern sense. So we always eat supper in the evening. Yeah, again, I think that that particular time is something that is merely circumstantial. Creo que este tiempo es algo circunstancial. I think the essence is that it's the body together. Creo que la esencia es que es el cuerpo juntos. All partaking of the bread. Todos participando con el pan. All partaking of the wine. Todos participando de la copa. Yes, the copa. with the word present that this is my body, this is my blood, which is shed, which is broken for the remission of sins for many. So those are the things that are essential to it, it seems to me. Esas son las cosas esenciales a nosotros. I want to add something here. Quiero añadir algo aquí. At our church, en nuestra iglesia, we take in the evening. Nosotros tomamos en la tarde. We do so for two reasons. Lo hacemos por dos razones. We do it the first Sunday of the month. Lo hacemos el primer domingo de mes. So that we can dedicate the whole service to it. Para que podamos dedicar todo el servicio a ella. and so it's easier to fence. So we have less people come mostly members and it's easier to administer it and we can take the whole time to dedicate to it y podemos tomar todo el tiempo de dedicar. And also Dr. Nettles said something very important this morning. También Dr. Nettles dijo algo muy importante esta mañana. It's the table that we see is the first line of discipline. Es la mesa que vemos la primer fila de disciplina. So this last Sunday evening, este domingo pasado en la tarde, we had the Lord's Supper, tomamos el Senor. We had to remove two people from our church membership. Tuvimos que quitar dos gente de nuestra membresia de la iglesia. We did that at the table. Lo hicimos esto en la mesa. That we made the announcement to the church. Lo hicimos en el anuncio de la iglesia. We no longer have communion with them. Ya no tenemos comunión con ellos. And I think it's important for our people to see that. Creo que es importante que nuestra gente vean eso. Well, I think that, again, I think those are circumstances that you have judged as being consistent with the nature of the supper and have made it something in which you can celebrate it in a way without extending possibilities of corruption or embarrassment to people, and I think it's a very wise way to do it. Son circunstancias que nosotros hemos visto que podemos hacerlo sin extender una pena o molestia a alguien. Amen. Amen. Thank you very much, Dr. Nettles. Muchos gracias, hermano Nettles. We have greatly benefited from you teaching us. Hemos recibido un gran beneficio de enseñarnos. Well, it has been a great pleasure for me, and I have looked forward to it each week. I do want to announce to all of you, on the 24th of August, Dr. Tom Askew will be teaching us. So we'll look forward to that. Thank you, brother. We have greatly appreciated it. And it's been it's been a blessing to us. Did you receive the quotes from Carol and Boas? I did not receive the quote from Carol. I found it online, but you could email me that again. I was also going to offer... Well, see, there's something happening. I'm emailing you and it's not going through. Okay. I'll send you another email. You can just respond to it. There's something happening. Something else I wanted to offer to you. If you use what I sent you in your founder's journal, if you need the information for where that came from, I can send you that as well. Okay, so you did get that email where I said that I wanted to. Yes, I did. What did you think of them publishing that in the Baptist magazine? Well, I thought it was very much in accord with the way they thought about things then. They would also announce the removal of people from church membership in those magazines. Yeah. That is the kind of coherence that they had. They had a high view of the local church, but also they had a high view of all churches in a sense honoring the judgment of each local church, and so there was much more coherence in their understanding of these things then than we have now. They also printed one that I was also going to send to you called Words of Complementarianism, and it's quite interesting. Words on complementarianism. I thought that would be very fitting for your current situation. Does it deal with that issue? Does it deal with the issue of men and women? It's explaining this is what complementarianism is. What year? It was 1826 and it was the September edition of 1826. I thought Wayne Grudem invented that word. That's really interesting. The September edition of 1826. We have Dr. James Renahan coming this weekend to teach our church on the confession, so I'm running around like crazy trying to finish everything up to get that ready, but if I have some time, I'll take screenshots of that and send it to you. Yeah, just do your pastoral ministry and everything you need to before you think about doing that. Yeah. Interesting. It was they were very pointed. And I can't imagine the Baptist Texan. I'm here in Texas. I can't imagine the Baptist Texan printing how to confront your brother in sin. It would never make it. I can't even imagine if I could contact the editors and said, hey, there's an old Baptist article from our Baptist history. Could you reprint this? There's no way. Yeah. It was godly, and it was spiritual, and it was sensitive, and it was biblical. At the end, five ways that you're to do this, and it was very cordial. Also, I got Wonders and Grace. I've been reading that with my family. Yeah, you sent me a shot of that. I've been reading with my family. So, so good. Very, very good. Good. Brother, we appreciate it very much. Well, thank you. Let's make sure we keep in touch and maybe I can do this again. Absolutely. The men of my church are provoking me. You have to bring Tom Nettles here. We want to hear him. We'll be in contact to see if we can work that out. All right, thanks very much. Gentlemen, good afternoon. Caballeros, mucho gusto. Muchas gracias. And I also wanted to comment that Pastor Enoch, I also invited him to be with us in these meetings. It is the first time that he accompanies us as well. Nice to meet you, Enoch. If you know him and he is interested in continuing with us, I encourage him to be with us in the following sessions. He will also be with us in the Congress on Friday to be with us. I think it is. He's saying that it knock is his first time to be on today. He's new. So he's going to start meeting with us. So. Oh, good. Good. Good. Mucho gusto, Enoch. Espero que vemos prontamente. Yeah. Mucho gusto. Adios. Espero que todos tengan excelente semana. Mándame los textos que van a predicar.