You're listening to Episode 184 of MidAmerica Reformed Seminary's Roundtable Podcast. In this broadcast, the faculty of MidAmerica discuss theology and cultural issues from a Reformed perspective. I'm Jared Luchibor, I serve as the Director of Marketing here at the seminary. Thank you for tuning in. In today's episode, Rev. Paul Ipema, Assistant Professor of Ministerial Studies, gives us an overview of the connection between church history and the practice of ministry today, particularly that of pastoral care. Teasing a deeper exploration, what he'll do in this episode is set the stage for the forthcoming episode centered around Pope Gregory the Great's transformative influence on pastoral care. On today's podcast, I'd like to ask the question, what can a pope teach us about pastoral care? And the answer actually is he can teach us quite a bit. Now, I'm not referring to our current pope, Francis, I'm referring to Pope Gregory I, otherwise known as Gregory the Great, But before I get to that, I'd like to say a little bit about the role of church history and historical theology in the study of pastoral care. I teach the pastoral care and counseling course here at Mid-America Seminary, and one of the things that has been impressed upon me as I prepared my material for class and seek to teach another generation of pastors is the importance of understanding and appreciating and benefiting from the work of others in the history of the church. You may recall the famous statement by Henry Ford a number of years ago, I believe it was during the time of World War I, he was asked about America's involvement in the war, or at least the prospect of entering into the war, And would the lessons of history be a guidance for us as a nation as we considered entering into the European conflict? And his response was, history is bunk. Basically, if I could paraphrase what he said, history really has no meaningful significance because it's about the past. We want to live in the present. We want to address the issues that are relevant to us today. And I think sadly there are a lot of people, even Christians, who take a similar attitude even if that attitude is not as virulent or the expression of that attitude isn't as virulent as Henry Ford's was. But for many people today, especially I think our younger generation, history is often dismissed as irrelevant. The idea is that history really can't address the issues of contemporary society, modern society, in any sort of meaningful way. The situation in the past was different than what we face today and therefore we really can't rely upon the insights, the wisdom, the experience of people in previous generations. Well, this summer I've been doing coursework in connection with doctoral study in which I've been looking at the role of historical theology, that is, the study and development of Christian theology throughout the course of church history, And it is remarkable to me how important it is to understand the role of historical theology in connection with something even as practical as pastoral work. Pastoral care and counseling, preaching, are often described as being part of the category of practical theology. It's less theoretically and more practical in terms of its content. We can learn a great deal from those who have pastored in previous generations, those who have written about it, those who have experienced the trials and the difficulties that are the same for every generation in some respects. And so I think before we look at Pope Gregory I, it would be important for us to understand the role that church history and historical theology has upon our understanding of what the church's role is and how do we do ministry in the 21st century. And when you think about it, historical theology teaches us, among other things, what the Church has understood to be the truthful, the accurate teaching of Scripture regarding various doctrines of the Church, Our understanding of God and man, the Church, the nature of the Gospel, the nature of the Atonement, all of those things, of course, have a bearing upon the way in which we do practical theology. Certainly the way we preach and teach the Word, but also how we understand the human condition. how we minister to people in their sorrow and their grief and the struggles they face. All of that is directly related to the doctrine that we profess, the faith that we profess as the Church of Jesus Christ. Historical theology also serves an important role in terms of teaching us the errors, the mistakes of the past, and what we can learn from those. Not only do we learn in a positive sense from what the Church has affirmed, what the Church believes by way of consensus, but also understanding where the Church has had to struggle against not not just openly false teaching, but teaching that we consider to be outside the rule of Scripture, outside the norm of the Confessions. Things which, not only theoretically, but in practical terms, may have a very detrimental effect upon the life of the Church of Jesus Christ. Just to give you one example of that, in my work this summer, I've been studying not only the work of Gregory the Great, but also the teaching of Menno Simons, the father of the Mennonites and part of the Anabaptist movement during the time of the Reformation. Menno Simons held to a view of church discipline, particularly of excommunication, that proved to be quite schismatic and detrimental. And in fact, he came under severe criticism from the magisterial reformers, that is, people like Calvin and Butzer and Bullinger, who basically pointed out that discipline is first and foremost a matter of seeking to honor God, but it is not the basis of maintaining a completely pure, spiritually pure church, that is. Simons believed that if the church practiced discipline the way it ought to, which for him included shunning people who had been excommunicating, having no contact with them, even between husband and wife or family members, that that was the way you maintained spiritual purity. There was a sort of perfectionistic tone to his teaching in that regard. Also there's a misunderstanding on the part of Menno Simons regarding the nature of the church, at least in this time before the return of Jesus Christ. We will never reach perfection. There will be, in the Christian life, those who struggle, those who face difficulties in their faith, those who will backslide, and the church must deal with them, biblically, of course, firmly, but also with gentle and compassionate understanding. and seek to restore them, seek to bring about repentance and the renewal of faith through the work of the Holy Spirit. But all of those things, of course, can be learned by our study of historical theology and of church history. There are lessons to be learned about things like worship, How has the Church dealt with, especially in a time of the Reformation and beyond, with the issue, for example, of the rule of Scripture in worship? I taught liturgics this past semester, and one of the things that we discussed at length is the notion of the regulative principle of Reformed worship, which is to say, if you are familiar with the Heidelberg Catechism, Lourdes Day 35, in its treatment of the Second Commandment, that we are to worship God in no other way than He has commanded in His Word. And I wholeheartedly endorse that. I subscribe to that teaching. But the difficulty is, in what sense is Scripture regulating our worship? Every detail of worship, is that to be regulated by Scripture? Are we to have biblical justification or proof texting for what we do in worship? Are we to give pretext for the whole order of the service, or is there a sense in which the Scripture serves as a general guide, it serves as guardrails, if I can borrow the expression or the imagery from Dr. Beach, my colleague, You know, how does Scripture function in that way? Well, there's an importance to understanding that clearly, because especially for men studying for the ministry, if they enter into the ministry and they have a view of the regulative principle, which is quite harsh and quite rigid, it will cause them and the congregation they serve all sorts of problems. It will create tensions, it will create divisiveness, it may even jeopardize the integrity of the man's pastorate in that particular congregation. So those things are very important not only to affirm but also to understand how has the church dealt with that. And of course the study of historical theology has taught us that that has been answered in a number of different ways. There are different understandings of what we mean by the regulative principle, and so we do well, I think, to understand the nuances of that idea. Yes, we are governed by Scripture. That's part of our affirmation of the teaching of sola scriptura, by Scripture alone. And yet we distinguish that from another term in the Latin, which is solo scriptura. That means Scripture alone. There's nothing else that can give guidance to us. So I would say that's important as well. I think the study of church history and the way in which the church has wrestled with various issues in the course of its history is important also to remind us of what things are of central significance You know, what things certainly we ought to maintain vigorously, and what things would we consider to be peripheral or certainly secondary. Which is not to say that we can be dismissive or careless with regard to these issues, but we recognize that there are certain things in the Christian faith and the practice of the Church that are of great significance. And we will defend those things vigorously. But there are other things where I think we need to be charitable towards one another, especially, for example, among those of us who profess a similar faith. You think of differences, for example, between Reformed and Presbyterian churches with regard to church government. certain practices in worship. I don't think some of those issues ought to be the hill upon which we're prepared to die. I think there ought to be a willingness to understand the relative or I would say the history behind that, and the traditions that we've inherited from our forefathers, spiritually speaking, and understand that within the boundaries of our common confession of faith, there is freedom, there's room for various applications of biblical truth. As we conclude this episode, we're reminded of the wisdom that church history holds for us, and especially those in the practice of the ministry. We hope this brief look at historical theology has sparked a sense of curiosity and reverence for the generations that have come before us, paving the way for the faith that we cherish today. Be sure to tune in for the forthcoming episode with Reverend Paul Ipema as we unravel the teachings of Pope Gregory the Great and discover how his insights on pastoral care continue to resonate in today's world. If you enjoyed this episode, consider subscribing and sharing it with friends or family. Your support helps us bring more engaging content to your ears and helps us foster not just a community of lifelong learners, but thoughtful practitioners. I'm Jared Luchaboard. Thank you for listening. We'll see you in the next episode.