Looking at our world from a theological perspective, this is the Theology Central Podcast, making theology central. Good morning, everyone. It is Monday, July the 18th, 2022. It is currently 1121 a.m. Central Time, and I'm coming to you live from Abilene, Texas. Now, I don't know about you, But I tend to get extremely bothered when a new trend, a new fad, shows up within Christianity. And I have seen many of them, right? When a new fad, remember the WWJD bracelets? What would Jesus do? Remember those bracelets? Remember purity culture? I kiss dating goodbye, purity rings, purity pledges, or true love weights pledges? You can just, I can go probably go through so many different things. Oh, remember when Satanists were running all over the country, kidnapping people for a satanic ritual? I can just go through so many different things where a new trend, a new fad, a new issue arises within Christianity. And that's what everyone is talking about. You see it sometimes with the new book. Oh, this is the book you have to read. Everyone's reading it. Remember the prayer of Jabez or whatever it is. everyone's talking about it, everyone's reading about it, it's the new trend, it's the new fad. And it always drives me crazy because it just seems like sometimes, well, let me say this, there were times it seems like there was a new fad or a new trend every day, every other week you turned around, there was a new fad or a new trend. But that's kind of slowed way down, I think in 2022, I don't think we're Maybe it's harder for a trend or a fad to catch on and a culture where we have so many different things coming at us and people are so People have so many different individual interests and they can kind of just be on their own individual bubble and they're not so much connected. So I think it's harder to create that trend or that fad within Christianity, I should say. Obviously in culture, you still have trends and fads, but they're usually set by TikTok. you know, or something on social media. I guess the same thing could happen in Christianity in a certain way. I just feel like that we're not so as much prone to it today, or at least I don't feel the impact as I used to. I used to immediately see or feel the impact of what the newest trend or fad was within Christianity. But it always bothers me because everyone just seems to jump on the bandwagon without really much critical thought or raising any questions. Sometimes what bothers me is when something kind of becomes a fad, but you're looking at the people who are jumping onto it, grabbing onto it, going, wait, why do you think this is a good thing? And they don't seem to ever understand, they don't seem to see the possible contradiction. Let me give you an example. Remember when that famous sermon, a sermon that went viral and everyone was talking about it, the 10 indictments against the modern church, I think by Paul Washer, and everybody was like, oh, this is the greatest sermon. Oh, you've got to hear this sermon. I don't know how many times people would send it to me. Oh, you've got to hear it. You've got to listen to it. This sermon is so amazing. This sermon is so great. And whenever people would say that to me, I would be like, okay, okay, okay, okay. Now I'd already heard the sermon, but like, okay, before we talk about that sermon, please tell me what church you go to. And then you would go look at their church and you'd be like, this church, the church you go to is condemned by this very sermon. Don't you realize you're supporting a church that this sermon condemns? So a lot of people gave lip service to it. Oh, 10 indictments against the modern church. This is so good. And while they supported churches that were indicted by that sermon and they could not see the contradiction in that. I'm like, why would you continue to go to a church that's indicted. It's almost like, oh, this is just cool because he says these things that are somewhat shocking. It's almost like it was, I don't know, entertainment more than it was edification. That's no, I'm not saying anything negative about the sermon. I'm just saying it was almost approached as something shocking, something sensational, more than it was, okay, now what do I do based off this sermon? And so many times these things happen. I guess in 2022, it's been for a couple of years now, the chosen Have you seen The Chosen? You've got to watch The Chosen. I mean, you have to see this. This is the most amazing thing ever. It makes the Bible come alive. And I'm like, what in the world is the deal with this, right? But so many times this happens within Christianity, or I'll start getting emails. Hey, you need to check this person out. You've got to listen to this. What about this? And so many times the things people are asking me about are clearly they're so caught up into. Once again, I'm just sometimes looking at it going, What's the deal? Why is everyone Into this what what is happening? Well, there was a period of time I don't know how long it lasted. I feel like it's kind of on the downwards I don't think trends last as long now either because again people are so distracted. They're like, oh, oh, did you hear oh butterfly? Oh, wait, wait, did you you gotta watch wait? Oh, but another butterfly and it's like whoa. Whoa. Whoa. It's like they people can't stay focused because again we have access to so many things. So, things, it's just interesting to kind of see how the world is constantly changing and moving forward and how that impacts maybe trends of the past. But there was a period of time, I don't remember how many years ago, I kept hearing it over and over and over, hey, what do you think about Dr. Jordan Peterson? What do you think about Dr. Jordan Peterson? Have you watched his videos on YouTube? Oh, you've gotta watch the videos on Dr. Jordan Peterson. Hey, did you watch those videos I sent you? Oh, you, come on, what do you think about Jordan Peterson? Come on, you, tell me, tell me, what do you think? What do you think? You gotta hear this, you gotta hear, oh, he's so good. Oh, you've gotta listen to this. And again, sometimes I would be like, Wait, what's happening? Why are we into this today? Like, what's going on? So I've always kind of had, just like, it's kind of like the same approach I had with The Chosen. I'm like, oh boy, here we go, another trick. Maybe it's my anti-conformity that's built into me. Usually when I start seeing everyone going, oh, oh, oh, this is it, I tend to go, yeah, whatever, and I just run the opposite direction. I know that's a bad way of thinking, because it's me really being controlled still by the majority. If the majority is saying, oh, this is the thing you need to pay attention to. If I just walk away just on that premise alone, I'm still being controlled by that. But there's just an anti-conformity in me. You ever went and said, this is it. I'm always like, no. Now in most cases, I will stop. I will go back. I will consider. Sometimes I'm like, wow, okay, you guys were right. A lot of times I'm like, I still don't get it, but at least I can formulate a reason that I disagree or a reason I disapprove like I have with the Chosen. I think I've vocalized that pretty clear, my issues with that. So, I had kind of just forgotten about Jordan Peterson. just kind of moved on, whatever. I would see, I think every once in a while I'll see a video somewhere on YouTube about I'm kind of like moved on, you know, just whatever, okay? And I hadn't given it much thought until July the 13th at 4.43 a.m. July the 13th at 4.43 a.m. I get an email. Here is how it begins. To begin with, Since 2016, I had been an avid follower of the controversial Canadian psychologist, Dr. Jordan Peterson. I bought both of his 12 Rules book, watched his seminars on Genesis, attended his seminars in person when he was in Sydney. I even had a photograph of me shaking his hand while getting one of those books personally signed. But that was also a time, that was also a time, now I look back, that I became ideologically possessed by the culture war, and Dr. Peterson's way with words lit the fire in me to go and fight it. Oh, now that's, that got my attention. I guess I never perceived Dr. Jordan Peterson being a part of the culture wars, but maybe now as I look back, okay, I can see that. And again, it's probably because I didn't pay much attention. I'm like, oh boy, oh, let me guess, you're getting ready to ask me, have I ever, as soon as someone said, have you ever seen, or have you ever heard, I'm like, stop, stop, stop. Jordan peterson, right? No, I haven't no, I don't care right and in some cases, I probably probably got pretty rude. I'm like, you know You've asked me that about 50 times Since those 50 times of asking me about dr. Jordan peterson. How much time have you spent engaged in any serious? I don't know bible study Any serious theological reading? I don't know any time of actual I don't know prayer. I what but I And I know I shouldn't ask that because that just seems like an ultra spiritual, you know, oh, I'm going to take the spiritual high road. But sometimes you just like you spend more time talking about Dr. Jordan Peterson than you do anything else. Could you stop? Right. It's like with the chosen. How much time have you actually spent? I don't know. Reading the actual words of Jesus instead of of the made up words of Jesus. But all right. All right. I know I digress. I'm going to make some people mad. All right. All right. Just stay with me. So this got my attention, this got my attention. This is someone who clearly has listened, read, even met, watched speak in person, and this person felt that Dr. Jordan Peterson got him involved in fighting the culture wars, the ideological culture wars, and you know my feelings on that whole situation. But let's see where this goes, because it sounds like you can almost hear in the email, obviously that was then, and they're going to get to now. It was even the person responsible for introducing him to various men in my church. Fast forward to 2021, and I look back, and while there were certain some positive things he said, I was still all wrapped up in a culture war crusade that engulfed the Western church, especially in America. I would say, yes, America has been engulfed in the culture war. America has been engulfed by politics. America, the American church, the American church has been engulfed by an ideological culture war. The American church has been engulfed by politics. The American church has been engulfed by everything other than, I don't know, spiritual revival, the word of God, doctrine, theology, the Bible. I don't know, the kingdom of God. I don't know, Jesus. We've been engulfed by everything other than that, it appears. But okay, I digress. Clearly, this person, that was then, this is now kind of email. So, they end that kind of paragraph, there's a space, and then there's the next paragraph. So, well, here we go. When I see him posting a 10-minute video titled, Message to Christian Churches, I was very intrigued. Well, now I'm intrigued. All right, we have a Canadian psychologist who's got a message to the churches. Oh boy, all right. Now, I do know of some other messages to the churches. Oh, that came from Jesus. Okay, all right. Those are probably more important, but okay, I digress. All right, what is Dr. Jordan Peterson's message to the church? Well, let's see what he says here. So when I see him posting a 10-minute video entitled, Message to Christian Churches, I was very intrigued in what he had to say. In essence, he acknowledges the general issues of the modern church, but I cannot help but see now that his call for churches to invite young men back into the church is not a call for repentance, but a call to arms to create more and more soldiers for his ideological war And this, and the unfortunate thing is, many churches will answer the call. Wanted to see if you would look into this, especially because he works, his works have influenced many men within the church, right? Now, they warned me that at the 10 minute, 25 second mark, He uses God in a way that some listeners may see as in vain. All right. I don't know how he's going to use this, but it's a message to churches. Many Christians very much get caught up into this individual. I've not listened to it in advance, right? I have not listened to it because remember my rule, when people send me things to review, I don't like to watch it in advance because then I feel like I listened to it in advance, then I kind of figure out what I want to say, then I turn on the microphone to say what I've already planned to say. So it's almost like a performance instead of like, let's really engage this. So basically I'm inviting you to stop what you're doing and we're going to listen and analyze and critique Dr. Jordan Peterson's message to the churches. However, we seem to have a warning that at the 10 minute, 25 second mark, he's gonna use God's name in a way that many may consider in vain. What I will try to do is keep a close watch on the timer. And when we get close to that spot, if it happens, we're like right at 1025, I will stop it and give you another warning that you may want to turn off the volume and not listen. It's almost at the very end of the clip. So we'll see. We'll just see where we're at when we get there. But I have a feeling that there's gonna be lots of Christians who hear this and if I say anything negative about Dr. Jordan Peterson, it's gonna be, my email box is gonna be like, how dare you? What are you talking about? He's right. And it's like, I've had a few people who almost seem shocked or like bothered that I'm like, yeah, what? Yeah, so? You know, you've got to hear this. I mean, is he a theologian, a Bible scholar? And I know that that's maybe the wrong attitude, because I listen to a lot of different things, but just when Christians are like, this is it! I found all my answers! And I'm always like, what is going on? I'm always just like, It's one thing if they're excited about something that's entertaining, but when they somehow like, this is what we need, I'm always just like, ah, it makes me, maybe I shouldn't be that way, but I probably have ticked off a few people because I was very dismissive. Jordan Peterson, you gotta hear this. And I'm like, oh man, just stop sending me YouTube links, just leave me alone, okay, I'm not interested. And I know that that probably bothers some people, but I just, man, the trends and the fads that come within the, The church claims that we're so satisfied with Jesus, but we're always looking for the next new thing. We're always looking for the next big thing. I mean, Christians who claim, we're so satisfied with Jesus. Jesus is all that I ever need. Oh, oh, oh, look, look, look, look, look. And we're always looking for the next big thing. And sometimes it just calls into question how content we really are, but that's neither here nor there. We're going to listen to a message to the churches from Dr. Jordan Peterson. I don't even know what year this video was made. It's on YouTube. It's 10 minutes and 51 seconds. Supposedly at the 10 minute, 25 second mark, he's gonna use God's name in a way that many will consider possibly in vain. I'm giving you the heads up right now that that could possibly happen. So if you keep listening, don't email me that you got offended because I'm giving you, I mean, it probably is gonna be almost an hour before we get to that mark. So you've got plenty of time to know and I will try to tell you also right before we get there. All right, and I do appreciate the emailer giving me that heads up because they know that I don't like to listen to it at first because it just seems so, I don't like that. I liked it real, like just it's us sitting down listening to it together. So if you're listening live, you can jump into the chat and offer your thoughts. If you're not listening live, you can email me, newsifatyahoo.com. and give me your thoughts. And of course, you guys on YouTube, you know what to do. Comment section, hit that subscribe button, whatever you're supposed to say on YouTube. Clearly, I'm not a YouTuber, but I think in every YouTube video, you're supposed to say, hit that little bell, subscribe, so you'll get all their latest episodes. make sure you comment and give it a thumbs up. And I don't know all the things you're supposed to do in YouTube. Maybe if I spent more time getting people on YouTube to do those things, our YouTube channel would be a little bit more successful. But obviously we're not, I mean, we're an audio podcast, but we're there. But if you listen to us on YouTube, I want you to know, we do appreciate anything you can do to help the algorithm realize we exist, okay? But most of our focus is on all the different podcasting apps, but we put our content everywhere. because maybe that gives us a greater chance of being found by someone somewhere. There. Was that deep philosophy? I don't know. Here we go. Message to the Christian churches. Now, this is specifically to Christian churches. Here we go. I don't even know what to expect. I'm a little nervous. I'm a little nervous, but here we go. Hi all. It is, of course, completely presumptuous of me to dare to write and broadcast a video entitled, Message to the Christian Churches, but I'm going to do it anyway because I have something to say and because that something needs to be said. Okay, it's presumptuous, but he's got something to say and it needs to be said. Now, I don't know Dr. Jordan Peterson's actual relationship to Christianity. I know there's been talks of how he now has embraced Christianity. I don't know his relationship to the church. I don't know what church he attends. I don't know if he's even a faithful member of a church, and maybe he is. I don't know anything about his theological background, so I can't say. All I can do is, okay, you've got a message for the churches. Well, I'm a Christian. I'm a part of a church. I go to church. I've been going to church since I became a Christian. All right. I think then I would be a person that would be interested in a message, but I'm going to compare, but this is, I'm going to do it. I make no apology. I'm going to compare your message to all scripture. And then I'm going to try to figure out exactly what you're wanting to happen and figure out if that's biblical and theological. not looking at this from a philosophical, but from a biblical and theological, not looking at this from a cultural or ideological perspective, but from a biblical and theological perspective. Here we go. I've been speaking to and watching and listening to audiences all over the Western world for the past four years, in person and in virtual form, and have learned a few things in consequence It all started in some sense with the lectures I did on Genesis in 2017. My family and I took a risk and rented out a theater in Toronto on the off chance that there might be an audience for what might be described as a psychological approach to our ancient stories. And lo and behold, and miracle of miracles, there was. I completed 15 or so lectures a psychological approach to Genesis. Can't say that I'm not intrigued, can't say that I'm not interested, but of course, our approach is not one of psychology. Our approach would be one of biblical hermeneutics, biblical interpretation, theological, but okay. I can't say that those lectures were bad. I can't say those lectures were good, but all right. It would be interesting that so many Christians would be drawn to them. That would be interesting. Oh, you've got to hear these lectures on Genesis, because we're tired of just that same old biblical preaching on Genesis. I hate to be so jaded. and skeptical, but again, sometimes it feels like Christians are just constantly looking for something new and different. Maybe they are the greatest lectures on the book of Genesis that's ever been given in the history of the church. But okay, I'm at least interested. Maybe one day I'll listen to them. Maybe one day I'll watch some of them. I don't know if I will, because again, I just kind of have a shrug my shoulders, whatever kind of approach to all of this. But let's see how this is gonna turn into his message to the churches. walking through the first biblical book, sold out the theater, and attracted, surprisingly, millions of viewers, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and atheists. And most of the people who attended live, and the majority of those who watched online, were young men. That is not a phenomenon that can be easily accounted for. But let me try. now in the West because of the weight of historical guilt that is upon us, a variant of the sense of original sin. That's interesting. I only find it interesting that most of the people who paid attention were men, young men. I find that fascinating because in my experience It's always women who, well, for all of my podcasts and everything, the majority of my audience has always been women. It's always been the women who seem to be more willing to engage in theological discussion, and it's definitely the women who actually engage in, say, our Bible study exercises. They're the ones who participate in the exercises, turn in the assignments, do the work. I've always found it hard to get men to read, to study, to talk doctrine, talk theology, except for men are going into ministry. I'm talking the average lay guy, the average layman sitting in the pew. In many cases, it's hard to get them to read doctrine, read theology, do actual Bible study, you know, carry notebooks. I'm not saying there's never none. I just, it's always they're outnumbered 10 to one by the women who got the notebooks open, who are reading books or asking theological questions. That's been my experience almost throughout my entire Christian life. I mean, I mean, I've always, I tell the story, who was I discipled by? My first discipleship was by an elderly woman, what 60, 70, she sat in her rocking chair, I sat on the floor and she opened a Bible and doctrine, theology, church history. I think she knew more than any man in the entire church, okay? She was godly, and I learned a lot from her. Now, obviously, Christian radio had a massive impact on me, and listening to sermons, I've talked about that. And then when I got into churches, even if I was at a church get-together, quote-unquote, one of those church fellowships I would be made to go to, in many cases, again, Men who were called to ministry. That's always the weird exception. The men who were called to ministry wanted to talk doctrine and theology in the books read. But if those men weren't around, if I was going to find someone to talk doctrine and theology to, I almost had to look for a woman to talk to, because it would be a woman somewhere who would have doctrinal questions, theological questions, and church history questions. So I am interested that his, for some reason, it was all young men. It was all young men who was drawn to that. That to me is an interesting phenomenon. I don't know if there's a clear explanation for that. It would be interesting to note, if we could get the demographics for just basically sermon listening and Christian podcast, is it more men or more women? There's probably some studies out there that would show that. Who listens to more sermons and Christian podcasts and theological podcasts? Is it men or women? It would be interesting to know. And you would have to subtract any man who feels like they're called into ministry or who's already in ministry. We're talking, if it comes down to the average lay person, who engages more in biblical and philological programs? I don't know. So that's an interesting phenomenon. I don't know if it's because his audience was already predominantly men, and if his audience is predominantly men, why? There could be some questions there. I'm going to back this up because he talks about original sin, and now he's using the term original sin instead of total depravity. So I don't know. Is he influenced by Roman Catholicism? Greek Orthodoxy, maybe Episcopalian, Anglican, I don't know what histological connection, but original sin is typically a term kind of used more in those circles where, in the Reformed world, we use total depravity, depravity of man, and sometimes non-Reformed churches, the sinfulness of man or sin. They may use the word depravity, but not too much because they hear that word depravity and they think, oh, total depravity, that's those Calvinists. So it's just interesting in hearing certain, sometimes when you hear terminology, you can kind of figure out the philological stream. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I'm going to already get emails. How do you not know about this guy? He's the most important thing that's ever happened to Christianity in 25 million years. Okay. All right. calm down, I've already acknowledged my ignorance here, but where I'm still, but that's, in some ways, I want it to be that way, because then this is just me, someone who's connected obviously with Christianity, listening to a person everyone tells me I need to listen to, but I don't have any of that other information to create a bias or to create, I'm just listening to it and reacting in real time. I think that will make this more productive in some ways. All right, so here we go. Let's listen for that term, original sin. a variant of the sense of original sin in a very real sense, and because of a very real attempt by those possessed by what might be described as unhelpful ideas to weaponize that guilt, our young people face a demoralization that is perhaps unparalleled. This is particularly true of young men, although anything that devastates young men will eventually do the same to young women. And that, in this era of anti-natalism and equally reprehensible nihilism, is precisely the point. When they are children, boys are hectored for their toy preferences, which often include toy weapons such as guns, and their more boisterous playing style, as boys require active rough-and-tumble play, even more than girls, for whom it is also a necessity. When in grade school, boys are admonished, shamed, and controlled in a very similar manner by those who think that play is unnecessary, particularly if it's competitive, and who value a docile, harmless obedience above all. Shades of Dolores Umbridge. Okay. I'm just interested. This is a message to the churches, and we're talking about how, I guess, boys are treated unfairly because of the natural way boys are made. There's a pushback on boys being boys, I guess. Hey, boys are being treated and are being forced to act like they're not boys, okay? I'm still trying to connect that with Genesis and the church, but okay, I'm assuming I see where this could possibly be going in the church, right? We'll see. We'll see. Following all that, because that's not enough, even when pursued assiduously for total demoralization, is the inculcation of an extremely damaging ideology, which essentially consists of three accusations. Number one, human culture, particularly in the West, is best construed as an oppressive patriarchy, motivated by the desire, willingness, and ability to use power, defined as the compulsion of others against their will, to attain what are purely selfish and self-serving ends. This is true at every level of analysis. Marriage is akin to slavery, friendship to exploitation, political disagreement to war, and business arrangements to deception and theft. And this is true not only of the current social arrangements that characterize our culture, particularly in the West, but also the fundamental reality of history itself. Accusation number two. Human activity, particularly that undertaken in the West, is fundamentally a planet-de-spoiling enterprise. Okay, I'm still trying to follow this. Remember, this is supposedly a message to the churches. All right, now, let's just say everything he says about culture is true. It's all messed up. It's just, it's confused. It's messed up. It's got these damaging ideologies. Again, my question always is for Christians, what do you propose? to fight the ideological culture war by what? Debating and arguing? No, what the culture has needed, does need, and will always need is the same thing, the gospel of Jesus Christ. Our job is not to fight their cultural wrong thinking. Our job is to present Christ to them. Then when they are saved, then we give them biblical thinking. But so many Christians want to fight the wrong thinking by some kind of cultural arguments, ideological arguments, psychological arguments, philosophical arguments, with the abandonment of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And this is what I constantly complain has happened to American Christianity. So he's explaining the problem in the culture. I thought this was a message to the churches. I'm assuming he's going to say these problems in the culture have come into the church and we've got to fix the church the way it treats young men so that young men will then, I guess, rise up and fight the culture battle. I don't know. Let's see. He's running out of time. He's got about six minutes left. Let's see. I'm still waiting for that. What's the message to the church? The human race is a threat to the ecological utopia that existed before us and that could hypothetically exist in our absence. We might well be construed, even, as a cancer that threatens the very viability of the complex systems that make up the ecosystem of the earth that shelters and supports us. We are facing a Malthusian catastrophe of overpopulation and biosphere degradation. And we have to place extreme limits on our wants, even our needs, so that survival itself, even in a much reduced form, can be guaranteed. Accusation number three. The prime contributor both to the tyranny that makes up the oppressive patriarchy and structures all of our social interactions, past and present, and the unforgivable despoiling of our beloved Mother Earth is damnable male ambition, competitive and dominating, power-mad, selfish, exploitative, raping and pillaging. You might think that I'm overstating the case. Think again, sunshine. We in the West are facing an all-out assault, at the deepest levels, on what that old joker Jacques Derrida deemed the phallogocentric conceptual structure of civilization itself. To take that apart, That's a society centered on the encouraging, adventurous, masculine spirit, and that privileges that hated word of all things, the divine logos. And what should we worship and celebrate properly other than that, deconstructionists? The words of that mass murderer Karl Marx? And it is precisely Alright, so masculine, it seems like, I'm paraphrasing, masculinity is under attack. And so what should we do? Masculinity is under attack. Masculinity is under attack. Look, this, this is really not a new art. I mean, go back to the 90s. Wasn't that the whole promise keepers thing? Christian masculinity are Masculinity is under attack within the church, and we need Christian men who will embrace their masculinity. Wasn't that the Wild at Heart book, where a Christian man needed to go out and kill a deer and, I don't know, drink its blood and roll around in the grass while they're camping? Whatever that nonsense was. Okay, I know that's a little bit of hyperbole, but I mean, he's using his hyperbole. I can use a little bit of my hyperbole. So, I'm just gonna stop here. I guess I've never quite understood this. I've never like, masculinity is under attack. My masculinity is under, what am I gonna do? I don't, there's so much about the whole masculinity thing that has always driven me crazy, right? I don't like this. I don't like, I'll give you an example. I grew up in West Texas, all right? Buffalo Gap, Texas is where I grew up for a good portion of my life. Before that, I lived in Abilene, Texas, but Buffalo Gap, Texas, population at that time, 280 people. I loved the town. There was so much about it, all right? But growing up in West Texas, there was a certain idea of what masculinity is. If you're going to be a guy, if you're going to be a guy, because if you didn't do these things, if these things did not characterize you, the only other option is, well, you were viewed as a homosexual, which to me is the most ridiculous thing. So, what I needed to be, right, this is what I was supposed to, I needed to be walking around wearing jeans and cowboy boots, where I usually was walking around wearing penny loafers and, I don't know, some kind of dress pants. That's usually—I wasn't the one wearing jeans, and if I did have jeans, they were usually bleached, ribbed with, again, penny loafers, right? So, I didn't have the Wranglers and the cowboy boots with the big belt buckle. Okay, that wasn't my thing. I was supposed to own a gun and go out and kill Bambi. No, that didn't work. I killed one bird in my life, and I basically cried. I'm like, okay, not killing animals, not a big fan of this anymore, all right? So, I didn't do the hunting thing. I was supposed to care about cars, right? I could care less about a car. I needed a car to get me from point A to point B. That's all I care about. I didn't care about the engine, the tire. I didn't care about cars, didn't care about hunting, didn't care about guns, right? Didn't care about any of that stuff, right? So that immediately called into question my masculinity, right? So when I ended up at gymnad high school, They put me in ag class, agricultural class, ag. I don't even know what it was supposed to be. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I got no desire to learn about cows or whatever we're gonna be doing here. Get me out of this. And I said, well, your only other option is home ec. And I'm like, put me in home ec. And they were like, no, boys don't. And this again, when I went to school, a little country school, this was their mindset. Boys don't take home ec. And I'm like, why not? They said, that's where the girls are. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're telling me there's a class with just all girls? Or I could be here in agriculture with all the guys learning about cows or pigs or whatever you guys do. Put me in home ec. So I left the ag class. I went to the home ec class. I got there and the teacher was like, you're in the wrong class. I'm like, nope, I'm in home ec. And she was like, uh, no. And at that point she was like, that's not the way it works. And I'm like, well, that's the way it's going to be. So I took home ec, right? So there, so, but the point was I didn't, I didn't meet the quote unquote criteria supposedly of what a masculine guy was. Now there was lots of things about me that would fit some of the stereotypes, right? I love sports. So I played football, basketball, baseball, There was a game somewhere I was involved and I wanted to win and I would be very upset if I lost or if I was not the best at whatever particular sport. I was in martial arts. So there was lots of things that were quote-unquote boy about me, but there were other things that I wasn't masculine enough. So I was referred to. in very negative terms. I won't use the terms, but let's just say in a way that they would describe someone in a very negative way as being a homosexual, even though clearly that wasn't the case. But because I did not fit what supposedly masculinity was. So I always get really I'm tired of like, if you're a boy, you're going to do this. If you're a boy, you're going to play in the dirt and get your hand if you're a boy. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. How about that? We're individuals, right? We're individuals. Can't we be individuals before we're identified by some stereotype of what makes someone a man or can we just be ourselves and who we are, our likes, our preferences, whether they fit a stereotype of what a guy or a girl should be. I cannot stand that. That just that seems like you will like here. You will conform. Here is what you will do. You're a guy. Buy a gun. Kill a deer. You will. And I'm like, I know. No, no. you can't tell me what I have to be. I would rather be listening to music. I would rather be dancing. I would rather be reading a book. I'd rather be discussing, who knows, literature. I'd rather be in an art gallery. I'd rather be doing a million other things than what I'm supposed to be doing. And I can't, so I don't like that. I'm not saying he's promoting that concept, but anytime supposedly masculinity is under attack, I'm like, I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't see, I don't understand that. Maybe it is, maybe I'm not saying there's never any negative cultural, put it this way. I think there was negative cultural pressure for a guy to, here's the negative thing that happens. Here's what we tell you a guy is. Right? Now, if you don't like these things or do these things, something's wrong with you. Well, that causes questions, that creates doubt and confusion when you're a young person and you're going through lots of all of your emotions and you're all the, you know, hormones and chemicals running through your body. That's a confusing time. So then you start thinking, well, maybe I'm not really. Maybe I am gay. Maybe I am homosexual. You start questioning everything. I never went through any of those major issues, but I could see it could create confusion. How about, you're an individual that is unique. You've got your likes, you've got your dislikes, and they may not fit some arbitrary subjective list of what a guy is or what a guy isn't, okay? That I cannot stand. I don't like when it turns into that. Like, you know, hey, the Christian men in your church, you need to go hunting. You need to go camping. Well, you know what? Christian men go. Where are the women going, okay? Are the women going shopping at a mall? I'm going with them. What's wrong with you? You're not manly enough?" Like, what kind of just ridiculousness is that? So, when I hear this, masculinity is under attack, what do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? Okay? Now, I'm not saying he is going to that other extreme. I just have been victimized in many cases by that other extreme, and I get tired of it. I get tired of, of, no, don't have to be like you. Don't have to be like you. I know it's a shocker. I don't, I don't, I don't, and it has nothing to do, you cannot call my masculinity, put it this way, I'm very, very, very confident, very, very secure in my masculinity. I don't feel I have to prove it by acting or doing things that you tell me makes me masculine. I'm very secure in my masculinity. I have no questions or doubt about it. And I don't care if it doesn't live up to some perceived stereotype or just list. But right now, this seems a little bit more like, kind of like the promise keeper's concern. We need men in the church! Now, I got no problem with saying that, but what do you mean by that? What is that supposed to look like? All right? That's my only concern. All right? Because if you can create a situation where every man must conform to that, and if they begin to question, I don't really fit in here, then they begin to question their masculinity. That just creates gender dysphoria. That just creates problems. No. You're still a guy. You're just different. It's not even different. You're just who you are with different likes. It doesn't call into question your masculinity. You don't have to meet some stereotypical concept of what makes someone masculine. I just, that's just, that drives me crazy in so many ways. And I think there's been lots of guys who've gone through that. And it's like, you know, you don't have to, it's just ridiculous that that's the way it works. I'm not saying the church has always been guilty of this, but I think there was a period of time where the whole promise keepers, wild at heart, get back to our, we need Christian men to be men kind of mentality, where some of this seemed to creep back in. Now he's saying culture is on a full-blown war against masculinity, and masculinity is being blamed for everything, and it's down with the patriarchy, down with masculinity. Okay, now let's say culture is doing that. What should the Christian response be to that? How do you want us to fight that? That's the question, because this is supposedly a message to the church, and he now has about, I think he has almost less than four minutes to try to finish this up. I'm trying to keep track of where he's going to possibly say God's name incorrectly. We'll see where it is. But again, supposedly, this is the guy that Christians need to be listening to, so if he's gonna use God's name in vain, well then, you know, I mean, I'm not saying he's going to, but if what the emailers tells me, if he does, then that raises other questions. All right, here we go. Those young men who are deeply conscientious, capable of guilt and regret, who have come to believe in pain, that every deep impulse that moves them out into the world for the adventure of their life, even that impulse drawing them to women, is nothing but the manifestation of a spirit that is essentially satanic in nature. This is not only wrong theologically, morally, psychologically, practically, and scientifically, it is literally anti-true. It's not a mere misstatement about the nature of reality, a minor conceptual error, but something that literally could not be farther from the truth. and something that distant from the truth comes from a place that cannot be distinguished from hell. The Christian church is there to remind people, young men included. So the attack upon masculinity leads us to a place that cannot be distinguished from hell? We're down to three minutes. I'm still trying to figure out how this is a message to the churches. I mean, he's using lots of big-sounding words, but I'm still left with, okay, exactly what the issue is here? Okay, all right, but let's see. He's got a chance to bring this together because this may be, he's setting up kind of a philosophical or psychological argument, and then he'll circle around and go, boom, this is what the church needs to do. So let's wait for it. and perhaps even first and foremost, that they have a woman to find, a garden to walk in, a family to nurture, an ark to build, a land to conquer, a ladder to heaven to build, and the utter terrible catastrophe of life to face stalwartly in truth, devoted to love and without fear. Invite the young men back. say literally to those young men, you are welcome here. If no one else wants what you have to offer, we do. We want to call you to the highest purpose of your life. We want your time and energy and effort and your will and your goodwill. We want to work with you to make things better, to produce life more abundant for you, and for your wife and children, and for your community, and your country, and the world. And we have our problems in the Christian church. We are more abundant, sometimes far too often corrupt, and sometimes deeply so. We are outdated, as are all institutions with their roots in the dead, but still often wise, past. So join us. We'll help fix you up, and you can help fix us up. And together, we'll aim up. And here is a message to those young men, skeptical about such things. What else do you have? You can abandon the churches in your cynicism and disbelief. You can say to yourself, narcissistically and solipsistically, the church does not express what I believe properly. Who cares what you believe? Why is this about you? Do you even want it to be about you? What if it was about others? What if it was about your duty to the past and to the broader community that surrounds you in the present? What if it was incumbent upon you and vital to your health and willingness even to live to rescue? I have to kind of stop here. All of a sudden, I'm getting a weird vibe. You ever hear of Mars Hill Church in Seattle? Mark Driscoll? You ever listen to the podcast, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill? Remember one of his things, masculinity, get the young men, men be men. How dare you? How dare you do that? And he went after the men with a masculine kind of Christianity, right? And we're gonna target these young men, these men who've been disfranchised, these men who've been cast aside by society, these men whose their masculinity is under attack. We need a more masculine Christianity, a tough, rough, ready to fight Christianity. How did that all end? How did that all end? Not good. Do I need to go, young men, I think I should just speak the word of God to anyone, Jew or Gentile, male or female. to anyone, young or old, black or white, American or non-American. It's the same scripture preached to each individual. Here is the Word of God. Here's what the text says. Maybe some texts have a more specific application to men. Maybe some texts have a more specific application to women, but I don't know if I should go. We've got to get back to calling the men to the church. We need you. We'll, we'll fix you and you can fix us. I just, and guys, I mean, what else do you have? I just don't know. That seems like Mark Driscoll did the same kind of thing. I don't know. Does the Bible even speak of men's ministry, women's ministry? It's just ministry to people created in the image of God who are depraved, who have a fallen nature, who need the word of God to grow. We're getting very close to the part where supposedly he's going to use God's name in an incorrect way. We're very, very, very close. So if you don't want to hear any more, you can stop right now. But we're going to let this play out because this is, I mean, I can't tell you how many, I mean, he's given a message to the churches. I mean, there's so many Christians, so many churches have bought into his whole thing. And it sounds like he just wants men to come to the church so that they can fight the ideological culture war more than he wants men to come to the church. And, you know, I mean, You don't just get men to come to the church so that they can get a system of morality so that they can fight the culture war. You call men not to the church, you call men to Christ. You don't call young men to come to the church, you call young men to Christ. When they come to Christ, then they come to the church. The way it's supposed to work is from to Christ, then to the church, then you're taught to obey. It's not to the church, it's to Christ. The church is the place where Christians are equipped. The lost are called to Christ. When they come to Christ, then they're brought to the church. He's not talked anything about repentance or faith. I mean, there's nothing Christian about any other. He's like, you need to come to the church and we need to protect masculinity. This has seemed to have nothing about theology, the Bible or anything, which again is exactly what I figured was the case. And this is, you've got to listen to him. You've got to watch his videos. It will change your life. Yeah. There's nothing biblical or theological in any of this. I mean, he's not even mentioned repentance or faith in any way, shape or form. or at least yet. Your dead father from the belly of the beast where he has always resided and to restore him to life. Once again to the churches, Protestant, you're the worst at the moment. Catholic, Orthodox, invite young men, put up a billboard. Okay, so I guess he sees Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant all as Christian. I guess he's making no theological distinction between, I don't know, that whole doctrine of justification thing. You're either justified by an infused righteousness or by an imputed righteousness. I guess none of that matters to Dr. Peterson that everyone says I need to listen to or I guess I can't understand my Bible correctly. I got an issue. Put up a billboard! We gotta get the man back! Come on! Come on! Protestants, you're the worst at this. But Catholics, put up a billboard. Say, young men are welcome here. Print some flyers and put them in a box by the billboard. Signal the existence of those flyers with an arrow with the words, more information about attending here. Tell those who have never been in a church exactly what to do, how to dress, when to show up, who to contact, and most importantly, what they can do. All right, so this seems to be, get them to church, not get them to Christ. Now, we are literally seconds away from where he's supposedly getting ready to take God's name in vain, possibly. So, I'm giving you another warning, all right? I'm giving you another warning. You may want to stop right now, okay? You may want to stop right now. I'm going to just let it play, pass the part. I'm worried about what's going to be said, but we're just going to see what happens. Ask more, not less, of those you are inviting. Ask more of them than anyone ever has. Remind them who they are in the deepest sense and help them become that. Your churches, for God's sake, quit fighting for social justice. Quit saving the bloody planet. Attend to some souls. That's what you're supposed to do. That's your holy duty. Do it now before it's too late. The hour is nigh. Well, okay, so it wasn't as bad as I was afraid of, but I do thank the emailer for contacting me and letting me know, hey, there's a possible problem there. I do like the fact that at the end he says, hey, church, do your job. You're supposed to be about souls. Okay, well, if we're supposed to be about souls, we don't need to be trying to get the people to the church. We need to try to get them to Christ, them from Christ to the church. But okay. All right. What's the...it seems like you want me to bring them to the church to give them a message about masculinity, not about biblical theology. I don't know, but I've seen that there's been too many approaches in the church where we want to create masculine Christians more than we want to create spiritual Christians. That would be a problem. All right, there we go. Look, emails, I always try to put the emails to the top of the list. This is what someone asked me to cover. I did my best. I wish I could say more, but he didn't. There's so much he left us with there that I'm just kind of like, that's it? You can tell me what you think about his message to the church by emailing me. newsif at yahoo.com, newsif at yahoo.com. That's newsif at yahoo.com. All right, we'll take a little bit of a break, and then we'll be back this afternoon. We'll be back this evening. We've got a lot of live broadcasting to do today, so just download the Church One app, ChurchONE. Choose us, Theology Central, as your chosen broadcaster. That's ChurchONE, ChurchONE. Download the app right now. No, no, no, no, no, I see what you're doing. Download the Church One app. Choose us, Theology Central, make sure you go into the notification setting in the Church One app, and just make sure they're all on, and then you'll get notified every time we're on the air, which seems like it's all the time. Seems like we're constantly on the air, but we're doing Bible studies, devotional thoughts, news commentary, keeping our eye on what's going on on the church. We're always looking at what's happening in the world and going and hopefully offering good theological conversation and discussion. It's not that you're always going to agree with us because, sadly, not all of you can be as right as I am. That's a joke. That's a joke. But I tend to have a different perspective than what you will normally hear on some podcasts. And I think that having that different perspective can be beneficial and challenging. And hopefully you will agree with that. All right. Thanks to the emailer from Australia who asked me to cover that video. I greatly appreciate that. He's, I think he listens to us mostly on YouTube. So we do appreciate the YouTube listeners. So thank you very much. Have a great day, we'll be back shortly, newsifatyahoo.com, newsifatyahoo.com. In the meantime, and while you're waiting, download the Church One app, all right? Then you can listen to us live, all right? And you can use all the other apps for whenever else you wanna listen to us, but all right, there we go. Thanks for listening, God bless.