Lord, we thank you for your providence in all things. And though it's often mysterious to us, we are thankful that we can trust you and rest in your plan. We pray for our morning. Pray for this study of this challenging genre in your word, that we would better know how to approach it and understand it. and therefore interpret your word and not be led astray by a variety of opinions and ideas out there, but rest in your truth. And so we pray for this in Christ's name, amen. All right. Well, as we've been doing, of course, we've been looking here at the apocalyptic genre and trying to focus on some key ideas to know how to approach it in a way, as I just prayed, that isn't going to lead us off into some somewhat bizarre ideas or maybe just a little bit off ideas, but we need to interpret things the way God intended them to be interpreted. And as I've said many times, we do the same thing with any of our readings. We're going to interpret something in the sports section differently than we're going to interpret an opinion piece. If you're astute, you'll read the front page news as an opinion piece too, but that's another conversation. So as we come here to apocalyptic genre, we need to interpret it in a way that is different than we would read something else in the scriptures, say the Psalms for example. Now, there's obviously overlap, but there are unique things that we look for and try to follow as we come to this. Now, one of the challenges we face in apocalyptic genre, and obviously the Book of Revelation is what we're going to emphasize here, is that it's a mixture of genres. Apocalyptic is typically a combination of prophecy and the images. In the Book of Revelation, you add the fact that it's a letter And so there are letter components, even some narrative components, in addition to the others. And so that makes it more of a challenge for us. But certainly not impossible, because the same principles that we use to interpret the scripture we're going to use here, right? So we use grammar, we use history, we use context, and the scripture interpreting scripture. And so the same foundational principles we use to interpret anything in the Bible, we're going to use here. And so let's not make it overly complex, but recognize the challenge and start with the basics, you might say. One thing I was reading here this week in preparation for preaching on Revelation is the connection here with the historical. You might remember I said that in this connection and then in this connection here, scripture interpreting scripture, that the Revelation makes references to the Old Testament all over the place. And one thing, actually it was a few things I was reading, I saw a range of 150 references to the Old Testament up to a thousand. Now the reason why the numbers vary so much is because rarely do we see in the book of Revelation you know, David said, or even the Holy Spirit said. There's all kinds of allusions. And so then you get different opinions. You know, is this alluding to that? And then one person says yes, and some says no. And if I remember correctly, I believe it was in chapter four, verses two to nine, if my memory serves me here, there are 15 references to the Old Testament. just in those verses. So, you might remember that's the throne room scene there in chapter 4. So, just to add to some of what I was saying last time, the whole Bible, in particular the Old Testament, is going to give us much guidance in trying to understand what we see here in Revelation. Alright, now, we We took some time then to talk about these different approaches to understanding the book of Revelation. And the basic point is simply this. If you are a preterist in your view, and let me ask the question, what is preterism? What's that approach to the book? How can you summarize that approach? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now, there are some that will say most of it was, but some elements were fulfilled at the end of the Roman Empire, you know, a few hundred years later. But, but yeah, most everything is fulfilled pretty much right away, the fall of Jerusalem in particular. And so therefore, John had to have written it beforehand and anticipated it and so forth. And so he probably wrote in the 60s, maybe the 50s, you'll hear people say. Now, if that's your view, then everything you're reading in Revelation is going to be filtered through that approach. Right? So, what about the futurist one? How would we define that position? Yeah? Okay. Yeah. And in particular, right before Jesus comes. Okay, so for now, we've had almost, you know, roughly 2,000 years between the time that John wrote it and now. And basically, other than maybe the letters to the churches in chapters two and three, nothing else has been fulfilled yet. Maybe if Jesus is about to return, some of the things are starting to be fulfilled. And of course, when you have people predicting he's going to return on a particular day, then they'll take the rest of Revelation and try to apply it now or something like that. But again, you see the point. If that's your understanding, and you're reading, I don't know, about the bulls or the seals, you're going to say, well, okay, that's nice. That doesn't have anything to do with me. Unless we're living right before Jesus comes back, and then you often hear people say, yeah, he's going to come back soon, so let's apply it now. But you see the point. It had nothing to do with the people who lived 1,000 years ago, or 1,500 years ago, or something like that. And so again, if this is your understanding, you're going to interpret the Book of Revelation very differently than someone who has a Preterist view. All right, now what about the Historicist view? Anybody remember that approach? Good. Okay. Okay. Okay. And I'd add one thing to what Joe said. It's chronological. And so especially, you see chapters two and three, that's fulfilled and refers at that initial history to those seven churches. And then once you get into chapters four and following, then you see those things being fulfilled over time, historically speaking, and in order. So the things that are fulfilled in chapter six, Okay, maybe that was the fall of the Roman Empire. Well, we're not going to see those things anymore in history, and now you move to chapter 7 and so forth, and you get into the bowls and the trumpets and all these things, and you're going to look for something historical in order that we see in the scriptures. Now, again, if this is your approach, and you say chapters whatever, 1 to 14 have already been fulfilled, well, you're not going to look at it in the same way as you would if you say none of it's been fulfilled yet, like the futurist approach. Now, some of the reformers actually held to this view. Calvin, for example, held to this view. So then, lastly, is the idealist view. And how would we define this? Yeah. So basically, it's all of the previous approaches combined. And I like to think of it as cyclical, kind of like we think of the judge's sin cycle, or we think of that we're going to see the same kinds of things happen over and over again throughout history. So there's a pattern to it. Also, somewhat chronological, in the sense that not that the book is strictly chronological, but that We're going to see, you know, in page 7 maybe, we're going to see some fulfillment. And then we're going to also see fulfillment as we move forward, kind of like that Old Testament approach of the seeing the whole multiple mountain ranges at each Okay, yeah, yeah, the idea here simply is that we are focusing on the genre And the genre is one of metaphor and image. And so what those things represent, we see fulfilled throughout history at various times in various ways. If we're going to say cyclical, we need to be careful here because history is not a cycle. It is linear. It is moving from beginning to end. But yes, if you think of it like that, yes, and we see that in the Book of Judges, but that too was linear because it was getting worse and worse. And eventually, of course, we see the mess at the end of the Book of Judges. getting worse and worse, being included in this idea of patterns of behavior, so to speak, or patterns of outworking fulfillment. But it is five million calendar, just like before the flood, right? Before the flood of judgment. Now, some idealists would agree with you and say we're going to see things worsen before Christ comes. Others have the opposite view, that they see things are going to gradually improve over time. So, it does depend on, you know, some other presuppositions that you're bringing to this. But the main idea of idealism is we see these images given to us. It gives us a principle of what we see in history. And we should understand revelation as explaining history. It's a worldview for us. And so then we will see. some of it fulfilled at the beginning in 80, 70, and so forth. We will see things fulfilled throughout history. And we will see things fulfilled in a culminating way right before Christ comes back. And so it is in many ways a combination of all three of these, the best of all three, you might say. Now again, my point here this morning is, depending on which view you hold, it's going to greatly impact how you interpret things. Now, in whatever, chapter 7, the historicist may say, well this referred to a particular event in history, and the idealist would say, well yeah, I agree with you. But we also expect to see it fulfilled in other ways throughout history. Okay? And the idealists and the futurists may agree and say, well, yeah, we expect to see these things right before Christ returns. And the idealists would also agree with the preterists and say, well, yeah, you know, you see how Jesus taught these things in Matthew 24. Wow, you can see how it was fulfilled in the Jewish revolt and Titus coming and people fleeing to the mountains and so on and so forth. But then the idealists would say, but that's a pattern that we're going to see off and on throughout history, culminating in the end. So anyway, I just kind of ran out of time last week to press home this point, but again the point is, Whichever view you hold is going to impact how you interpret things. So say you get a commentator and you start reading or you see someone on TV or a blog site or a YouTube video or something, they're talking about Revelation, figure out where they're coming from because that's impacting what they're saying. And these are the four main approaches. There obviously are going to be various other sub-views, but these are the four main approaches that pretty much anybody who's talking about Revelation are going to speak to. And as I typically do, I'm studying a variety of commentators, and I have those who are Preterist in their approach, those who are Futurist in their approach, those who are Idealist. I've had references to the Historicist. I think there was another one that I just read that I'm just getting started on it. And I believe the other one leans Historicist. As I get more into it, I may say differently. But I do that on purpose so I can get a variety of opinions so I can better understand what the text says. Okay, any questions on that or comments? All right, well let me also then address some of the other kind Alright, the Millennium. Alright, this of course is found in Revelation chapter 20. Let's turn there just a moment. It has been said that these few verses, in particular verses 2 and three, but even further, are gonna impact everything else in the Bible, in terms of how you understand it. So verse two, he, referring to this angel with his great chain, laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished, But after these things, he must be released for a little while. And it certainly continues and impacts how people understand things. But my point here is just to give us an overview. So as I just said, some people will take these two verses and everything in the Bible must be understood in light of these two verses. Which, okay, fine, we do that. In other ways, I've said many times over the years, Genesis 3.15 helps us to understand the rest of the Bible. And if we understand that verse, then everything else is gonna fit together. Or Genesis 1.1, foundational for helping us to understand all the scriptures. So, okay, we do that. It is a bit odd that the very end of the Bible is going to force us to go all the way back and reinterpret everything else in light of it. And furthermore, the last few chapters of Revelation do correspond quite closely to the first few chapters of Genesis. So these words, I think, do take us back to the beginning, and some will use that then to justify interpreting everything in the Bible in light of these verses. So just be aware of this. Again, same point as I made with these four views. Wherever people fall is going to impact not only their understanding of Revelation, but even their understanding of many other passages. And so, again, just be aware of people's approach. And so anyway, the different approaches people and what is often called the amillennial view. All right. Well, the first one is according to its name, its word here, premillennial. This means that Jesus will return prior to the millennium. Now, there were people in the early church that held this view. The early church fathers were, generally speaking, premillennial. We call them historic premillennial because premillennialists today are, in many ways, very different than the historic premillennialists. Again, like the name says, they believe Jesus is going to come. He is this angel. He's going to bind the dragon and rule on earth for a thousand years. And at the end, the dragon will be released and so forth. And that will be the very end, at the end of that time. This view typically believes in a post-tribulation return of Christ at the very, very end. You'll have different opinions, does Jesus stay on earth for the thousand years, does he leave, and when does he leave, and so forth. So this is the one approach historically, and this view is actually acceptable in the PCA, as long as it's not the modern approach to premillennialism. And so you might remember Nick Prodos, the pastor at the Church of Butler. He was a historic premillennialist. All right, now, what you probably 99% of the time hear is the dispensational approach to premillennialism. So this is what you're going to see on TV. These are your left behind books and movies and all the things that are connected to that. The guys that get up there with all these charts and so on and so forth, they are not historical premillennialists, but dispensational premillennialists. And so the difference is what you would normally here, and that is there are going to be various returns of Christ. And typically you hear it as two returns, but the first one is not a full return. He's going to come down and in the clouds rapture the church. And it varies, but typically you hear people say it'll be a secret rapture. And so, again, if you've seen some of these movies or read the books or something, you know, people are there and all of a sudden they're gone. You know, cars are wrecking and, you know, things like that, right? And so it's a secret rapture and they meet the Lord in the air and so forth. And then the thousand years, you'll have different views here. Jesus has returned this kind of half return and now there's the thousand years of the millennium. And for some, the emphasis now is on all the promises that are given to Israel as a nation are now going to be fulfilled during the millennium. Some will say that the Sermon on the Mount does not apply to Christians, but it applies to the Jews now during the millennium. Now, again, there are a variety of opinions out there. There's a continuum on this. So you'll have some people say yes to what I just said, that's what we believe. Others say, well, okay, but I don't believe that part of it or something to that effect. Some people say Jesus is on earth. Some people say Jesus returns to heaven. Some say he goes back and forth or something to that effect. But then at the end, as we read there in verse three of Revelation 20, Satan's gonna be released at the end, and then Jesus will come back at the final coming, and that's when everything will end. We'll then have the judgment and new heavens and new earth and so on. Now added to this are the views of the tribulation. And so the seven years of the tribulation, some people are pre-trib, meaning the church will be raptured before the tribulation starts. Some say that the church is raptured right in the middle of it. Some say it's at the end of it. So I was talking to someone here, I don't know, five, six years ago or something like that. And they were trying to make the case that It is better for us as Christians not to be salt and light because that will precipitate the fall of society and Jesus will come back sooner. And he also added the point, we're going to be raptured before the tribulation anyway, so it doesn't matter. We're not going to suffer. And frankly, I so, dumbfounded by the statements I didn't quite know what to say at the moment. It just didn't make any sense to me. But that was his view. And from what I understand, that's not an uncommon view among at least some who take this approach. But again, this, I don't want to get into all the details because I frankly don't know all the details. As I'm studying some, I do have one commentator. I haven't started him yet. But he is kind of one of the top writers about this view. And I wanted to get a commentator and read it so I can better understand their view. But maybe I'll get to him this week. But I haven't started reading that one yet. But again, this is what you commonly hear, something along these lines, among the pre-millennial viewpoint. And so, therefore, again, if this is your view, you're going to interpret everything in Revelation, in fact, all the Bible, within this framework. So, any comments or questions here? Yes, Luke. In regards to the evangelism, the point you just mentioned, I would just like to emphasize that I think that is exceedingly rare. The bulk of everything of the modern dispensational criminal stuff that I've read, or heard, or studied, is very much of the Ilka, you need to evangelize, because the emphasis is, do you want your friends, neighbors, family, to suffer through these things? Yes. And I would add the point that he said, That's already been done. The world's been evangelized. And so we don't need to do it anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So he would agree with what you said. It's just we've gotten to the point where the whole world's done it now. You've got radio and TV and all this sort of thing. And so the next step is we're getting close to the tribulation. And so just stay home and don't worry about being salt and light. So, but I would agree with you, Luke. That's what you said is what is much more common. But that's how he got around it, I guess you could say. Yeah. Yes, but for the purpose of, if you will, yourself and your family, not for influencing culture in any way. Well maybe some of you are familiar with some things that are connected in one way or another maybe to Doug Wilson and his approach of establishing a Christian society, but doing it on a smaller level, you know, local community, maybe a county or something like that. And it's similar in the sense that the culture is gone, so let's focus on ourselves and so forth. And it's a far more nuanced argument than I just said, but, you know, it's from a different perspective, but it is a similar idea, like Nalene just said. In the last 10 years, we're hearing more and more of this kind of, can you call escapist approach to the culture. And, you know, they make some valid arguments, but how far do you go with it, of course, is the question. All right, well, the postmillennial view is, of course, again, like the name suggests, Jesus is going to return after the millennium. Most postmillennialists, as I understand it, believe in a literal thousand years. Some will say, well, it's not necessarily a thousand years exactly. Maybe it's more of a period of time. You know, maybe it's whatever, 800 or 1,200 years in the end. But for the most part, it's going to be about 1,000 years. And so the view here is that things are gradually improving over time. And so the gospel advances. It improves society. Christians are salt and light and influencing the culture to make it better and better. The means of grace are used and so on. And some have called it the golden age of the church, will be the millennium. And then at the end, Christ will return. And it'll, if you will, top off this gradual improvement over this time. So. Yeah. So is that because Isn't Satan released? Yes. And they would say, yes, at the very end, there will... So is it because he's bound for a thousand years, the church is going to work? Right, yes. But at the end, you're right. He will be released, there will be a time of tribulation, and then Christ will come back. Yes. All right. Any other questions on that? Well, the third main approach, then, is the amillennial view. And the name here is not actually all that indicative of what it means. Those who believe in an amillennial position do not say there is no millennium, which the letter A would suggest. But what is meant here is that the millennium is not literal. It is figurative. And so the whole reference here in Revelation 20 should be interpreted the same way you interpret the other images, and that is a figurative time reference. Thousand is 10 times 10 times 10. So it's 10 to the third. So you have perfect numbers here. And so it's representing a perfect, a complete amount of time. That's the millennium. And so it's not literal, it's figurative. And the millennium started at Christ's first coming. Some will debate specifically, is it his birth? Is it his resurrection? But the Millennium started with Christ's first coming, and we are now in the last days. And the New Testament speaks that way. And the Millennium will conclude when Jesus returns. So we are in the last days and have been for 2,000 years. We are in the Millennium and have been for 2,000 years. And it'll last for however much longer until he comes back. So, again, Aumil is somewhat of a misnomer. It is true in the sense that it's not a literal thousand years, but we still believe in the millennium. And I give myself away here a bit. This is the view that I hold, and so on. So, any comments or questions here on this position? Now, certainly, as we go along, we'll address some of these things. And now, for these three approaches and these four approaches, typically, the premill and the futurist goes together. And the postmill and the preterist view goes together. And the aumill and the idealist view tends to go together. There are exceptions. There are various, right? Again, I continue here. But generally speaking, that's what we tend to see. The historicist's view is maybe not quite as common today as it has been before. But you'll definitely hear connections in that way by, you know, various commentators and preachers and so forth. Alright, comments? Questions? Again, my main point to communicate to you today, and what I started last time, is whichever view you hold, it's going to impact how you interpret Revelation. Now, the ideal way, of course, is you start with these three things. You go through the whole of Revelation as well as the other relevant places, and it should guide you to one of these views, right? Okay, exegesis. But once you get there, then you're going to probably fall into one of these camps, and that's going to then also impact how you interpret things. So, for example, what I preach next week, one of the things I'm going to bring out is that Paul says certain things in Romans 4. James says some things in James 2. Are they contradictory? Well, we use our basic principles to understand it, as well as some other presuppositions. But if you're coming from a... Trying to put my thoughts together here. If you are coming from the view that we have a free will, and we have the ability to choose Jesus, and you're going to take James' words in a certain way, then you're going to interpret Paul a little differently than what I've been saying. But if you come at this topic from the mindset that we are dead in our sins, and that no one seeks God and would choose God in and of themselves, then you're going to read James 2 a little bit differently. Our presuppositions are very important in how we approach things. Now those presuppositions should be formed by following these principles. So anyway, just recognize that our approach to revelation is typically guided by these different views, and I think the one that best fits those three principles is the Aumil and the Idealist view, and I've given some reasons for that already. I'll try to give some more as we go along. All right, Joe, did I see your hand? OK. Well, what are you thinking? Do you have a question or anything? When I was going through the training for Elder, you asked what our position on these was. Position was, yeah. I said I consider myself a cautious post-monopolist. My view was that it's a little like, I guess you could say, The good and bad of society are sort of like the stock market. The stock market has its ups and it has its downs. But over the trend of the last century, probably the stock market will give a better return than any other investment you had. and then there was another one in 2008. You know, it just shocked people that blocks don't fall out, you know. Well, I kind of viewed it that way with society that, yes, there isn't a, nobody. When we have war now, it's, it's, you don't, gather up all your POWs and execute them or make them slaves like they did in, say, the Bible times. Multiple marriage isn't the thing today as it was in Bible times. And so I see that as just kind of gradual improvement, but we're sure in a decline right now Well, and the improvement has certainly come because of the New Testament, Christ coming and all the teaching and the influence of the church. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you noticed how Joe put it, he says, I am a cautious post millennialist. Sometimes you'll hear amillennialists call themselves optimistic amillennial. Others are pessimistic amill, but we're not pre-mill. So there's, again, there's different ends of the spectrum here. So, yeah? I'd love to jump the gun, maybe for a plan a minute later, to connect those to the current understanding of the spirit. Yeah. Is that something you're thinking about doing? Well, I guess not specifically, I guess it could connect in that way, the one thing I'm planning to do, but yeah. whether it be helpful to see how the different views see today's Israel as applying to their views, how that affects their accounts. Well, as a quick answer, Preterists would say there's no connection at all. It doesn't matter what's happening over there. The Historicists, it kind of depends. If they're coming from a more reformed perspective, and you often hear that the church is Israel, so it doesn't necessarily apply. In the futurist approach, well, absolutely, right? Everything that's happened since 1948 is, you know, following here. The idealist view, again, it would depend. Typically, though, you'll see that the church is the new Israel, And so the promises are there. Now, then you also then have to ask the question, how does Romans 11 fit into this? And so some will say, well, Paul's talking about the true Israel there, Jew and Gentile. Others will say, no, Paul is talking about physical descendants of Abraham, and we're going to see them brought in at some point. So, yeah, it depends. on your view. So yeah, maybe some of the things I'll address later will speak to it to some degree. All right, well, I guess we better finish here then. So let's pray together. Lord, we thank you for your word. And as we're trying to wrap our minds around this challenging book and genre, We pray, Lord, that you would guide us and strengthen us by your spirit in this way. We pray, Lord, that you would help us to stand upon the foundational principles of interpretation, and that these would guide us, and that we would truly exegete your word and not impose upon it things from the outside. We pray for your grace in this way. But we pray too, Lord, that this wouldn't merely be an academic endeavor, but that we would grow in our understanding that we might heed these words of John and Daniel and Ezekiel and know how to apply them to ourselves today and how to live in a way that honors you. So Lord, we pray also then for our forthcoming worship that you would strengthen us, be with all those who are leading. Pray for Pastor Jim, that you would guide him and strengthen him in this way, and that you would be with us and be honored in our worship together. We pray in Jesus' name, amen.