And he goes back and forth doing things with this wheelbarrow and then he comes back to the U.S. side. And he asked, after people watching, he carried various things in the wheelbarrow, if they thought he could carry them across Niagara Falls. And everybody felt like, yeah. And of course, then he asked, okay, who wants to go? And nobody wanted to. And I was thinking about balance as we come back to this study and I was thinking every parent feels just the intensity of the balance of not wanting to be too hard, too soft, and the difficulty of getting it right. And then even more so after the last sermon, parents might feel this way after hearing that Paul tells us, you know, on the one hand, don't overparent. But on the other hand, don't underparent. And you want to get your child, your ultimate goal is to get your child to heaven. And you feel like there's this error and that error and how do I balance it? And thankfully, At least as regards over parenting and under parenting, Paul doesn't just leave it there for us to just figure it out and do our best. But he goes on to give two prepositional phrases. to further modify how we are to bring them up, how we are to apply the right balance of attentiveness to their bringing. And he says it is by bringing them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. So if you're bringing them up, in the discipline and the instruction of the Lord, then you are holding the right balance. If you're not bringing them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord, then one way or another, you're going to be imbalanced. So that's what we want to look at today. Those are the two main points, bringing them up in this way and in this way, which Essentially, almost like obey your parents, honor your parents. They kind of are talking about one idea, but from a little bit different angle. Now, in terms of the well-known nature versus nurture distinction, what we're talking about is nurture here, just to get the right category in front of us. That's what bring them up is talking about. Obviously, they're already there. And so nature has set in and this is the nurturing side of things. And Amy and I were talking when we were eating and then she had to go. It was just kind of dawning on me last week that this image of, and so we'll finish our conversation now. The idea of bringing up, that it occurred to me that while it's kind of implied in there vaguely, nebulously it's in our mind, but it's helpful to explicitly say it, that this idea of bringing up is not eternal. Right? Well, we're not always bringing them up. And what does it imply? What are the necessary elements of this that if you're bringing them up, well, there's a starting point, there's an ending point, and there's this period in between. So in terms of that, when you're born is when it starts. When you become an adult is when it ends. And this nurturing is what takes place in the middle. And Paul uses this as an analogy, this literal thing that we're talking about right now as an analogy a couple of times. In 1 Corinthians 13.12, for example, he says, when I was a child, I spoke as a child, I reasoned like a child, and when I became a man. So he views becoming a man as an achievable thing, and then there's remaining life that goes on past it. So, parenting has a terminus, it has a telos, and it ends when you become a man, which you could say is common for both sexes when you become an adult. And then he uses it again in Ephesians, so you could turn to this one easy. In chapter 4, verse 13, he used it as an analogy for not only individual Christian sanctification, the sanctification of the whole church throughout history. He says, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. So the church is growing up almost like Simba to eventually match and correspond to Mufasa. So the goal of parenting is, you know, they're not filed on your tax returns as dependents forever. The goal is for them to become a new independent and to have dependents hanging on them. is the replicate yourself almost. So the idea that they're always connected to you and always dependent on you is actually a wrong idea. But it just occurred to me that I wonder how many parents have even thought through what is our goal? Because it's important because that's how you measure success. What we're talking about is nurture, and the nurture, it's that category, and it happens in the middle between the starting and the end point. Now, then it occurred to me that we already kind of have a word for that in our culture. It's the word raised. So we talk about how we were raised. And we talk about it as something that happened in the same, you can see that it's functioning as a synonym for the same idea, same period of time, because we talk about it as something that was over, it's done, and we know when it took place. So I was raised, but notice we use it, we appeal to it in terms of an explanation of how we're living as adults. Someone may say, well, why do you behave like this? Well, my mama raised me this way, or my daddy didn't raise me to do this, or I was raised to shake a hand this way. I was raised to look in the eye. We appeal to that to explain. the behavior that's going on. Or you may say brought up. That's still kind of invoked. I was brought up to do this. Now, in the Greco-Roman world of Ephesus, who this letter was written to, Their word for this was paideia. It's the Greek word, which they spoke Greek, not English. And so it's the word underneath discipline. So if you look in the text where Paul says, bring them up in the discipline. I'm reading the New American Standard. You may have another word there. But it's the first word here amongst discipline instruction. some may say nurture and admonition, but under the first word, discipline, in the New American Standard is the word paideia. And so if you were to time travel, in other words, if the time machine weren't broken and we could get Mr. Peabody to help us and you could go back and pull some Christians from this church as well as just a random selection of lost people in the marketplace of Ephesus and you could translate them and you could drop them off to a school And you can see math and English going on. And by the way, not just education and subject matter like that, but before eight and after three, a kid talking to their parents. and having a conversation about life or responsibility or nighttime scripture reading or some conversation that happened about how you should or shouldn't behave. And you were to say, what is y'all's word for all of that? They would have said, paideia. That's the paideia of those people. That was their word for that. Now, the issue, as you know, I've spoke on this several times. along the years and thankfully you get clearer and clearer understanding the more you talk about something. And I now see, even clearer than before, the issue of confusion amongst Christians on this has to do with the extent of this term, paideia. The question is, is what I just said correct? And Ephesians would have called all that paideia. Because if it's what he would have called all that, and Paul is telling you to do all of that in a certain way, that's got tremendous implications. The ones that I have tried to be an influence for. So the question is, is it to be interpreted narrowly or widely? If you take it in the narrow sense, which is how most of us have grown up taking it, meaning it only refers to a section of life, not the whole of life. And essentially, we've been taught to read this verse as saying, okay, bring them up in the discipline. Pretty much means bring them to Sunday school, do a little Bible study at night, and every now and then have a conversation, but that's all it's referring to. It does not refer to the rest of their upbringing. That's probably the majority modern day view, although thankfully it's changing. If you take it in the wider sense, as including the whole nurturing of the child, Both what takes place between 8 to 3 at school and before 8 o'clock and after 3 o'clock, all of it. then it would be referring to the whole distinct Christian form and aim of that form, like a funnel. There's a form that they're in and it is meant to produce something at the end. It would refer to the whole Christian form and aim of raising children, which would be both their education, as we traditionally think of in particular subjects, that you can get tested on on your ACT, but also the whole inculturation of the child. How to live, what kind of manners to have, how to handle adversity, how to handle this and that and the other. To use an analogy, does the term Coke refer to all carbonated drinks or just drinks made by the Coca-Cola company? We use the word in different ways. Sometimes in the South, someone says, give me a Coke, and they don't mean exactly a Coca-Cola, black, you know, they just mean a carbonated drink. And sometimes we mean exactly that one. So that's the question we're asking here. Hydea referred to all carbonated drinks. That's a wide extent for the term and includes the whole upbringing of the child. Or does it just mean Sunday school, a little Bible study at night? Is that the idea? Now, obviously, you know, I have taken it in the wider sense and done nothing but strengthen my conviction in this restudying of it. But maybe let me try to give you and remind you of the reasons I've collected over the years for taking it in the wider sense. Number one is a biblical argument. First of all, it could go either way, biblically. You notice that in Hebrews, chapter 12, verse 5 and following, he starts talking about, my son, do not despise the discipline or the chastening of the Lord. And he says, we had earthly fathers who disciplined us. The word under there is paideia. So clearly paideia could refer to what you would commonly call spanking or grounding some kind of negative correction that, you know, for the moment seems sorrowful, but it's designed to produce a positive result. However, it's also used in the wider sense in Acts chapter 7 verse 22. So if you turn there, I'll show you this one. These next two are exceedingly important, just to see that the word can mean this other, wider sense. So in Acts 7.22, we read that Moses was educated, was paidid in all the learning of the Egyptians. So Moses was educated in all the learning of the Egyptians. And that is the word paideia there. So that's used in the wider sense obviously. He was enculturated to become an Egyptian. To live like them, talk like them, think like them. Now obviously he goes on to reject that. But another usage in Acts that's significant is chapter 22. in verse 3 where the Apostle Paul recounts the time of essentially what we would call his adolescence of his education. He says in verse 3, I am a Jew born in Tarsus of Cilicia. Now Tarsus was one of the main philosophical centers of the day. So scholars think, you know, Paul basically got his grammar education there and that's where he would have learned of the classics. He would have read some of these things in Homer and the Aeneid and so forth. Now, this is where he got his grammatical education, let's say. But he went on, his father sent him to Gamaliel, because he's a Jew, and he didn't want him to be a plumber, he wanted him to grow up and be a rabbi. So he sends him, essentially, his junior high through high school years to Gamaliel, and so he says he was brought up in this city, pieded under Gamaliel, at the feet of Gamaliel, strictly according to the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as you are today. So it worked. I mean, he was put in the form and he came out the tube exactly as the form was meant to produce. And so How do we know which way to take it or why do I take it in the wider sense? Well, given that it could mean either way if you come here, you know, it could be referring to this wider meaning that applies to children's upbringing or it just could mean this, an adult meaning where it could apply to us even. Why do I take it here? Well, quite obviously, the context is about the children. And it is about their upbringing. So that's the first reason to take it this way rather than the other. And then the second is you notice in that Acts 22.3, Paul joins Paideia to bring up, which is the exact same two words here, bring them up in the Paideia. So the extreme burden of proof would be on the other foot. to find some reason to think that it doesn't mean what it means in the wider sense. The second, so that's a biblical argument, the second one is the historical context meaning of paideia. A.T. Robertson is known as the greatest Greek scholar, New Testament scholar, North America has ever produced. That's his legacy. It's what he's known as. He was the first professor at the Southern Seminary on the Greek text. And he has a set of commentaries called Word Pictures in the New Testament. He says, this is the meaning of it. Peter O'Brien is a modern day expositor. commentaries on the Greek New Testament. He has one on Ephesians. He says that is the meaning of it. The Greek lexicon written by Thayer's, if you look it up, you have access to it on your phone. It says, it refers to the whole education and training and enculturation of the child. Vincent, another popular guy who writes word studies, provides citations from Plato, where Plato used it this way, as referring to the ideal Greek education that would produce an ideal citizen to operate according to Plato's philosophy. A fairly recent scholar named Werner Jaeger wrote a three-volume set on paideia in the history of mankind, and that's why it's three volumes, but he cites Plato, Aristotle, and Cicero for the meaning that it refers to the whole education and enculturation, as I just said, a form which has a goal of producing a citizen who can function in the state according to the way they want the state run and they want the citizen to be a part of that state. So those are four reasons historically that this is the context. It would be like someone writing you a letter today saying start a Christian monarchy. You might not like that idea or whatever, but if Paul gave us a letter saying give me a Christian monarch, we would know what he's referring to. Give me a Christian democracy, we would know what he's referring to. So to write to these in Ephesus when this is the historical context, And I've shown through those Moses and Paul there, specifically Paul, it's the biblical contextual meaning of it. And he's talking to children. This would be the natural reading of the text. But a fifth reason, you can literally just Google it right now on your phone. Put in the word. P-A-I-D-E-I-A and just hit search. And you will see exactly what I've just told you. And you can literally read it. It's even right there on Wikipedia. And the little Google drop boxes will just tell you this. So it would be like saying, as I just said, give a Christian democracy. We know what it meant. So Paul is saying, as the Greeks and Romans have a distinct paideia, which is the form and the aim of their whole nurturing to produce a pagan citizen, he's saying give me a Christian one of those. Give me a Christian Paideia, a whole form and aim designed to produce an adult saint, a Christian citizen rather than a pagan citizen. If you think of the Civil War, Both sides used bayonets, but the South used it in the aim of the South. The North used theirs in the aim of the North. And essentially what Paul's been telling us all the way through here is, yes, pagans have wives. And you have wives, but give me a Christian form of wife. And yes, the pagans have husbands, but give me a Christian one of those. And yes, the pagans' children, generally there's this idea of obedience and submitting to them, but give me a Christian one of those. And the pagans have a paideia. a nurturing and inculturation of the kind of citizen that they want to produce that is the all-encompassing form around this child. from point A to B, birth to adulthood, and he's saying, give me a Christian one of those. So do your math, but do it for a different purpose. Do your reading at night, but do it for a different purpose. Have a conversation about the movie that just came out, but in a Christian way and for a different purpose. So you handle all the exact same things. So you can read Plato, but there's someone in the room saying Plato's a pagan, Jesus is Lord. Or at least they have the liberty to say that when they feel like it's a good time to plug that in. It's not that you're in a scenario where you may not say that. Because if you're in a scenario where you may not say that, now you're in a pagan paideia, a pagan form. So this is what Paul is essentially saying here. And specifically, he tells the fathers to build this. And what's amazing about this is he tells the fathers to build this, and there isn't one. This is Ephesus. There's no Christian school here. This is the beginning of the church. And yet Paul had the audacity to believe the theologies taught us so far in the book, that God is summing up all things in Christ. God is making a new humanity in Jesus, to call him the second Adam is just a new humanity, a new mankind. And as God told Abraham to go out, and look at the stars and say, so shall your descendants be. He is the kind of God who calls things existing that are not. And then by faith we follow him. And so you might say, well, this is not quite a big enough movement yet, or how will we ever move this great beast of the current system? And the answer is, I have no idea. I'm just called to obey God in my generation and fall asleep. Pass the baton on to you. As John Adams said, the obedience is ours, the results belong to the Lord. So we just obey and do all that we can, do all the good we can, all the movement that we can. So in a sense, you start in your home, you start wherever you have to do it. So he's telling these fathers, start in your homes, move outward as much as possible, include as many other children as you can, include as many unfortunate children as you can, as many impoverished children as you can. I even had recently, that is about two years, there's a guy that I met who's in the He's a teacher in the public school system, so he knows certain schools that are less fortunate, let's say, and even students. And I've even discussed him a couple times having like some kind of summer logic class down on 3rd Street or something for free to like whoever you know, whatever kids would come to it. But we should have dreams and desires like that, not just for our kids, but for all the images of God in the world, to try to do good to them, to try to spread it. Now, they did this, we know they did this, because Rome fell in 476. So this is about the mid, you know, 100s, and well, 400 years from now, Rome is going to fall. So this great thing that they thought could never happen, happened. And there was a Christian paideia literally through what we call the dark ages, which is a really strange term. that I guess we've inherited because we grew up in a non-Christian paideia, because we've been taught to call it the Dark Ages. It really wasn't the Dark Ages. Did you know, for example, that the very idea of a university is a Christian idea? I mean, it comes from Thomas Aquinas and his Summa Theologica, an all-embracing, and you don't have that today. You can go to a college today, and you can go over here to one class, say your sociology class, and they tell you you need to fight for your rights, and you need to stand up for your rights, and people matter. And then you go over to the other compartment, you go to your psychology class, And they teach you that man is basically a lab rat. He's just reacting to different stimuli. And then you go over to your biology class and it's worse than that. You used to be fish and you used to be a tadpole and you're just randomly rearranged stardust. But that doesn't, it's not coherent. It doesn't fit together. The very idea of a university is that there's all these different subjects being taught as part of a unified whole world view. And that came from the Middle Ages. And it was there all the way through until the modern period. Matter of fact, nearly every single one of the reformers were educated this way. And we like to think that these things just fall out of the sky, but they don't. God uses means. And nearly every single one of them was educated in, you know, what we call a classical, what we call now a classical Christian way, as it was Given to them and it's been lost in the modern period and no one has asked recently because we all grew up in the after way way post enlightenment. It's not just our generation or the one before the one before the one before. I mean, you have to go all the way back to the beginning of America and the Enlightenment secularist thought that was growing up right there, you know, in the Declaration. you know, what creator are we talking about? Or is this just natural law? They were trying to coexist right there. And so we don't know to think critically. We don't know to ask, now why is it that a child going to school in Louisiana and a child going to school in Idaho both get in a yellow bus? We don't even think about it. And it doesn't even occur to us that this thing that is free is tearing us apart and tearing things down that it shouldn't. And so that they can go be educated by the state. And we've rarely even thought to ask, now, what is the goal of this education? And it's interesting if you even ask someone that. So I say that to say we're really today in a similar situation as these Ephesian fathers were. And we shouldn't lose heart. We shouldn't say, oh, I wish we were in a different generation. And we have that saying, right? One plants the tree, the other lives in the shade. So we can still, someone's gotta turn it around. And so we should turn it around as much as we can and then pass it on to the next generation. Now, as you can tell, there's a lot to say about this, so this is going to turn into, I thought this was at first one sermon, then I thought two sermons, now it's at least three sermons, because so many of these things to say are very important. Like, for example, this one. This means we have to reconsider that priority in place of skills in various particular subjects, by which I mean, science, math, English, art, music, what we call the traditional particular subjects. We have to reconsider the priority and place of them. A lot of people have the idea that, oh, OK, I know what you're saying, Jeffrey, what you're saying. We need a Christian school. So what that means is we're going to gather together at the beginning, and we'll have chapel to start the day. No, that's not what I mean. Or we're going to gather together, there's going to be a prayer at the beginning. And that's what makes it, to give an analogy, Christianity is not like one garment on the clothesline alongside math and English and everything else. Christianity is the clothesline on which hangs all the subjects. It is the overarching whole entire world and life view. It is the philosophy of life governing everything. Every philosophy has to even begin to do anything, to breathe, to go pick up a mouse. I mean, you have to have a theory of what is real, how do you know it, and why should we care? And that comes from Christianity, not from something, oh, well, let's neutrome, we'll see. No, that doesn't work. So these particular subjects, in our mind, we have to be sanctified in our minds now to view them as under the higher category of a Christian paideia. And that means, to use another metaphor, the big issue Paul is after is that you have a Christmas tree. The big issue is not what ornaments you put on it. The big issue is not how you decorate it. Just make sure you have a Christmas tree. And so Paul wouldn't go by and say, oh, when you decorate it, he's pleased with the tree. Just make sure you have a tree. And everyone's going to decorate it different according to their situation. In other words, make sure there is the form of a Christian paideia even if you have to fail math. And you heard me correctly. Even if you have to fail math and never know exponents, what does it profit to know how to chart grammar and lose your soul? What does it profit to know about the cells and how reproduction happens and lose your soul? These are not the same value. This is a higher value. So he's saying, you notice he didn't say make sure they excel in math. He didn't say that. Now I happen to think that the deeper you go into a Christian worldview and you're sanctified in your mind, you will see that math's a value. But it's not the ultimate value. Such that we can go around and say, if anyone's not excelling in math, you're being disobedient to Ephesians 6.4. Because it doesn't say that. It does not say that. So we have to organize these values. And we have to remember. Let's have a little Christian paideia for a minute. If that just means a Christian worldview, that means Scripture determines everything. Because in 1 Timothy 3.16, Paul says all Scripture is inspired by God and profitable, and he starts listing some things. And when he says for correction, guess the term? Paideia. So we need the paideia. We need the form to constantly remind us to take a Christian position on everything. And that's what Scripture is. We get loose and out of it, and it's like, no, bring it in. And we get all this, no, tighten it up. This is the view on this. And so, what is one of the things that Christianity teaches in Philippians, if not, that to live is Christ. Not math, not exponents, but Christ. And that the Christian life can be lived in any circumstance, whether in death or in life, whether I have a lot or I have little, I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. And so the last thing in the world, and even get this, we need to put upon someone that you must have a classical Christian education. No. No, it's not what it says. It says you must have a Christian education. It doesn't say, and just think about history for a moment. If you even remember it, that this is kind of oddly named. And I'm thankful that I've listened to Doug enough, because he was kind of part of the movement spearheading this, that he kind of laughs at how it's named. Because he doesn't really, he's like, I don't even know what we really mean by that hardly. And I was thankful, because for a while, I was studying through some of my other studies and I was noticing like, well, this, it didn't even start to the Middle Ages. This guy Cassiodorus and so, it's like after the Middle Ages began, before what we call the seven liberal arts, the trivium and quadrivium, came together. And then prior to that, it's like, yeah, the Greeks and Romans kind of had a little, but it was never coalesced into a system. Well, what's the problem with that? Well, the classical period is typically lined up with, and you divide Western history into ancient, medieval, and modern. It's the ancient part. Well, there was no coalesced seven liberal arts then. It was during the Middle Ages. So it really should be called a Middle Ages Christian education, which don't quite have the same ring to it in our culture. So the point I'm trying to make, you know me, my daughter can tell you this, I still feel like she needs to learn astronomy before we're done, that I am for rigorous education. She might get lost in the Atlantic one day and need to know the stars. And so I'm for that, and I shove that and push that and I'm hard for that. But ultimately, I'm not for burdening people and adding guilt to parents. And I'm ultimately for trying to stay accurate to what scripture is saying, no matter who it disagrees with, even myself. And so what I want to get across here is the only thing we're bound to have in common with other Christians is a paideia of God, a paideia of the Lord. If you think of a funnel, a funnel which is formed toward an adult. Christian Saint, and that is the goal of the parenting. Whether it's a purple funnel, or a blue funnel, or a glitter funnel, or shiny funnel, and whatever else you can pack into the funnel, you should learn exponents. They're incredibly valuable. So pack them in there as much as you can. But what I'm saying is don't ever let that supersede the importance of Christ as Lord. Such that you put your child in a scenario where they get 14,000 hours of education that they can live, that's about when you sum it up, K-12, that they can basically live a successful life without even thinking about Jesus. Now, if you can't see that that's a dangerous thing, and you say, oh, well, we correct it at night. Well, just help your mind in the category here. Imagine, would you let someone come in your home and teach your kids the first 29 days of the month, from 3 PM to bedtime, paganism? In your living room, in your home, And you don't say anything. Sometimes you're there, sometimes you're not there. And they tell you, this is the way to live. And your justification is, well, on the 30th of every month, I tell them before we go to bed, that was all wrong. And then we start again. I mean, eventually, they're going to be affected by it. And we know this. What makes a Christian education, this is going to be in the next sermon, but just to say it here, Christian, is not even that the instructor is a Christian. Because you can have a Christian instructor who's a disobedient Christian instructor. And they're not given a Christian worldview. It's the worldview that is the issue. Now, obviously, only a Christian would do that, but not all do. I mean, for one, this takes me way afield. I'll just come back to it next time. But for one, you can be a Christian and go teach in any pagan circumstance, but that pagan circumstance has a form. Any ordered community has a form, and they have a standard, and they have a way they live. paganism of the secular American government school. It is against the law in the state of Louisiana to teach creationism as true. It is against the law. Okay? It is literally a law on the books that says you have to be neutral about it. You cannot, in good conscience, operate that way as a Christian. Now you know it varies from principle to principle and so on and so forth. But the essential, you can't just start acting like Christ is Lord of all and determines everything and everyone should live by Scripture. You won't last. But we're called to put our children in a situation like that. So many parents get their priorities wrong here. Sports are the same way. Sports are fine. They're included. The paideia refers to the mental and physical raising of the kid, all of it. But I need not mention that figures like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and more could be mentioned, never play sports a day in their life. Again, sports are good. Paul says there's a little profit. You should do them if you can, but they're not essential. They're just not. And again, the same thing could be said of sports as said of exponents. What does it profit a child to get first team all district and lose their soul? What does it profit to get a first place trophy and lose your soul? It does not. So I mentioned the classical thing because that's what I advocate for and many of us here do, I suppose. But I just want you to remember for the first 300 years of church history, and that's a long time. Today is 2023. You go back, that's literally longer than from here to 1776. So add another 100 years on there. For that long of a period of time, whoever these Christians are that lived there in this time, they had no Christian school. I mean, they were persecuted by the Roman state to even have a church. It was illegal. So you have no Christian school. But could they live the Christian life? Therefore, Christian school is not an essential element to the Christian life. Could they give their children a paideia of the Lord? to whatever degree they could. They obviously were seeking to. And that brings to the other thing I want to say. We're out of time to stop for today. Maybe I can get to one more thing. The idea that this is a burdensome teaching The idea that there's someone who's maybe in a mixed marriage, one spouse is converted and one's not, so of course they don't value this. And depending on whether it's the male or the female, you have more or less control. So a lot of times this will come up, Jeffrey, you're just burdening people, you've got enough problems, and I'm actually trying to lessen burdens. and burden for you because your burdens are going to increase. If you're a single mother and you have a boy and you give him 14,000 hours of pagan education and you're working, I mean, the likelihood of your burdens increasing is high. As it is said, You send them to Rome, they come back Romans. I mean, you send Simba to live with Timon and Pumbaa, he comes back singing Hakuna Matata. Why? If you're going to live with us and eat with us, you have to be like us. And Jesus said that. He said no disciple is above his teacher. And after a disciple is fully trained, he will be like his teacher. Now, and the proverb says, raise up a child in the way he should go. And when he's old, he won't depart from it. And we say, oh, yeah, we know that. That's a general truth. But we kind of have in our minds like, well, maybe 50% of the 60% of the time it works. A lot of times it don't work. And we're appealing to our experience. But it's actually a much higher probable law than we think. Because many of us are assuming that the data points, the people that we are viewing as stats of people who've been raised in the way they should go, have not really been raised in the way they should go. Because we're talking about people who got a pagan paideia for 14,000 hours And then they departed. Well, that's not somebody who was raised in the fear of the Lord. I thought of missionary examples. Because we want to get out of this, but I want to maybe use this one. We're talking about Kevin. Why did Kevin go to Lebanon? How is he going to be a missionary in Lebanon? He's going to teach English. So we can literally come in here and pray for a missionary to have an impact through teaching one subject to a group of Muslims and then turn around and say, oh no, no, no, they're just studying English. Well, which is it? They can't both be true. We know they're not. They literally tell you they're not. How many coaches and people say, oh, it's not about the game. It's about life. How many teachers get on Facebook and say, hey, if I taught you in the past, comment, let me know where you're at. I'd like to know. I mean, they view themselves as the parent of this kid. They view themselves as the mentor, the life mentor. And they view themselves as looking at their fruit. Well, this is how they behave. And as it is said, when somebody tells you why they're doing something, believe them. I'll just finish this point. So I'm not saying a lot of times this has been misunderstood and maybe as a fault to me. I'm not saying to a mom who's already juggling, if there's a single mom and she don't have support from her husband or whatever, or a community around her or whatever, that, oh great, now I gotta teach math and science and English and everything. No, no, I think we have to be careful about that. And we have to try to remind this mom, on your deathbed, y'all are not going to be talking about exponents. You're going to be talking about Christ is life. That's the main, if you get that done for your little girl, your little boy, that's success. If you have to work another job, and another job, and another job, if you're a father. And someone will say to me, like, well, that's easy for you to say, Jeffrey. You get paid to be a pastor. Well, it was not always so. It was not always so. And some of you can remember. And it's not both. It's like Paul saying, you yourselves know what I did with my own hands. I mean, I had a college degree and was moving stinky trash bags around through a job Jeremy was able to give me. I had a trash route. And cut wood. And cut grass. And worked at UPS. And part-time being a pastor. And it was the best time of my life. The absolute best time. Never, never talked it since. Because the Lord made men to sacrifice themselves. And you're happiest that way. When you're just pouring into your family. So the idea, oh, it costs too much. No, no, no, no, no. We're not. You've got to start somewhere. We're not saying you've got to go find the most shiny institution. We're not. That's not it. And we give people that impression sometimes. And it's very burdensome that we do give someone that impression because it's not what the text says. And then you get a person under a kind of legalism where they just give up. Like, oh, I just can't do it all. And then they give their kid back to the pagans. R.C. Sproul once was, we've got to stop somewhere and pick it back up. R.C. Sproul was asked one time about this, about the calls. So just remember I'm not for the calls thing because it's irrelevant. But I am for the support thing. Doug and them and their church, It's one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard of. When you become a member of their church, all the church members commit to if this child getting a Christian education, if you can't afford it, or something happens to a father and his family left, the other men in the church will pull together the other families and they will finish this kid's education. So we do need to be concerned with more children than our own as much as we can. But Sproul was asked one time, typical Sproul given a short answer that's cutting. He was asked one time saying, well, it costs too much. And he said, the assumption there is that it costs more. than what you're already paying. And he said, how much does it cost to turn your child over to pagans? How much does that cost? And so they have an old saying in the world, you know, get rich or die trying. I think Paul is telling fathers, get a Christian pie day in your home over your children, put the mold of the Lord around them, whatever you have to do. And you can do this. Because it does not mean you have to be an Elon Musk entrepreneur. And you have to be a super computer smart guy. It doesn't mean that men can get discouraged by that. I mean, what woman, you have the classic picture of the man getting off work in his work boots and stopping by the store to get a flower and bring home. Like, what woman would not love that man? Like, and be proud of that man? And so any man can have the will to work. And any man can say whatever I have to do. If I've got to get another job, if I've got to start a business, whatever I have to do. Any man can have that mindset. I think Paul is saying that. Do whatever you have to do to make it happen, but we'll pick up next time. Let's pray. Lord, thank you for this subject matter. Thank you for the opportunity to grow in our understanding of it. And thank you for all our children. And help us to continue, Lord, to discuss it in a way that's edifying and help us to correct anything in this discussion that's unedifying. And in the end, we pray that you would edify us in the end as a result. of churning back and forth and iron and iron going back and forth over such an important topic. In Jesus' name, Amen.