The following is a production of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. For more information about the seminary, visit us online at gpts.edu. Would you please stand with me for the reading of God's word. Let us now hear the word of the living God as his apostle Paul speaks to us of the preeminence of Christ in Colossians chapter 1 verses 15 through 20. This is God's holy word. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything He might be preeminent. For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross. Amen. This is God's holy word. Would you please join me as we pray? Oh Lord, our Lord, how excellent is your name in all of the earth. We come before you this afternoon in the words of the psalmist, whom have I in heaven but you. And besides you, I desire nothing on earth. My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. For behold, those who are far from you will perish. You have destroyed all those who are a whoring from you. But as for me, the nearness of God is my good. I have made the Lord God my refuge that I may tell of all your works. Our great God in heaven, we bow before you this afternoon and we acknowledge that you are the creator of this world, that you have made all things good. You have made man male and female. And Lord, it is we who have unmade ourselves. We are in the mess that we are in because of our sin, because of our rebellion. But Lord, we gather here this afternoon not to stand in judgment over others. Lord, we are all sinners. We all need your full mercy. And we thank you that the problems that are before us in the home, in the world, ultimately are God problems. And Lord, you are the great answer for the needs of mankind. We pray, Father, that you would humble us at this hour, that you would teach us your word. Bless the speaker, Lord, may he be careful to speak your word. May we be eager to hide your word in our hearts, not only that we would not sin against you, but we would be conformed in our thinking, our feelings, our activities, our actions, that all things would be to the glory of our wonderful Savior, who washes and cleanses us from all sin. Lord, be with us now. May your spirit have his way in each of our lives. Lord, make us an effective witness in our churches. May we have the answer that people need. And may you lead them, Lord, to the cross as you have led us. Except for the grace of God, Lord, all of us would be as foul as possible. We thank you for your mercies. So lead us now and teach us in this difficult subject May your church be careful to be both holy and loving. In Jesus' name, amen. I have not had the privilege, actually, of having before just a few moments ago meeting our speaker this afternoon, Mr. Gary Bates. he is going to be speaking on a topic which, as Christians, especially in our present circumstance, we should be very informed about. And my understanding is that this is a gentleman who is informed on this particular topic and can help us equip ourselves in the use of God's sword as we battle against the onslaught of sin and the misinterpretation and misapplication of scripture that comes. Mr. Bates is a former evolutionist who for the last 25 years has been involved in the creation versus evolution debate. He is the President and Director, CEO of Creation Ministries International. He has written several books on this particular topic, and he is going to address us this afternoon on gay marriage, right or wrong. Mr. Bates. So in case you are wondering where I'm from, no, it's not England, it's Australia. But I now live in Atlanta, Georgia, which is the U.S. head office of Creation Ministries International. And if you're not familiar with our ministry, We have seven offices around the world. We primarily deal with the creation evolution debate, as was mentioned. And our website, you may be familiar with, is creation.com. And to the best of my knowledge, ladies and gentlemen, I think our ministry employs more scientists than any Christian ministry in the world. So I mention that. For two reasons, all the information is peer-reviewed, but our scientists, our PhDs, they got their degrees in the same secular universities as their evolutionary counterparts. Now, I'm not here to talk so much about creation evolution today, but I want to encourage you that the issue is not about science when it comes to the creation evolution issue. And today, the issue is ultimately about the authority of Scripture. And that's what we deal with at CMI. Does God's Word really mean what it says? And we're going to talk on this subject today. I just confess before you I don't profess to be an expert on this issue of gay marriage. I was asked to speak about it today because of a little booklet that I co-wrote. But what we are able to do, I believe, ladies and gentlemen, so many areas that we're being confronted with in the church today, is to use the Bible as a lens or a filter for interpreting our world and the events around us. And so often, and one of the big issues we deal with as a ministry, I mean, we ministered in 369 churches in the US last year. And virtually every church we go to, Christians, well-meaning Christians, have come up and say, well, do I really have to take those days in Genesis literally? You know, aren't there gaps in the scripture between Genesis 1-1 and Genesis 1-2? And what are we trying to do when we do that? We're trying to take secular or cultural ideas and impose them upon the text, trying to find ways to fit them in, because we think the science of the day is so strong. And guess what? It happens on this subject as well. In fact, one of the reasons I decided to write a very simple booklet, and I express it's not deep in terms of its theology, But there's a need, because I go to churches and even Christian families will come to me telling me that they have relatives and even children who are struggling with same-sex attraction, for example. And my youngest daughter, who's at college, finished now, but was at college in Atlanta, she came home one day and she said, you know, Dad, when this subject of homosexuality comes up, she said, even the Christian kids in my classes say things like, well, isn't it okay if people love each other? Or, you know, aren't people born that way? There seems to be some predisposition towards that. We're going to talk about some of that today. So that's just by way of introduction. I'm going to move fairly quickly, because I have a lot of information to cover, and I've put it in PowerPoints for you so that we can summarize what we're talking about. Now, I just want to say, I'm going to use the term gay marriage, all right? Now, immediately, that causes a reaction in some Christians because they say, well, we don't like that term. Now, look, I agree. I agree with you. But at the end of the day, I think we're much easier using terms or arguments that a certain lobby group uses and turning them back against them. I mean, there's nothing gay about gay marriage at all. It's like in science using the term natural selection. Now, nature doesn't select anything in the environment, but it's a term that the evolutionists use, and we can say, well, okay, I actually believe in natural selection, but let me show you it doesn't have the power to generate new genetic information, for example. So, if I use that term, just, if you wouldn't mind, give some leeway on the wording, so as not to detract from the actual issues. We get hung up on the wording. That's not the point. Let's look at the actual issues. Don't spend time arguing about that. Now, gay marriage is legalised now in America and many, many Western countries. And I have to say to you, in a country like the United Kingdom and some countries in Europe, I actually wouldn't even be allowed to stand up and address this issue or oppose it. It would be regarded as hate speech. And we've just seen some major changes, legislative changes in this country that are going to head us that way. So I think as Christians, I actually see this as a line in the sand issue. It's just one of the issues. But very soon, there'll be attempts, I believe, to muzzle us, even within the church, talking about this issue. So we need to stick together. We need to support each other. We need to support other Christians who in effect are being discriminated against because they're speaking up about this issue. And I also want to point out, the reason I think those children at my daughter's college make those comments is in some respects in the church over the years, we've kind of demonized the homosexual lobby. You know, we tend to see and are promoted in the church, you know, gay pride marches where we see obviously very, very bad behavior, people dressed half-nakedly parading their sexuality down the street. But then what happens is our children go to college or they go out into the workforce and they meet homosexual people. And they say, they're not like what I was taught in church, they're really nice. You know, they can love each other, of course they can. And so we've got to be careful also of not demonising people, because at the end of the day, homosexual people are sinners just like you and I, and the ultimate answer is the gospel. They need to be saved. Some churches, of course, we're seeing in this country endorse same-sex unions. It's no surprise, actually, that virtually every one of those churches formally endorsed evolution as a method of God's creation. Theistic evolution. Evolution is the way God did it. So the minute we do that with those early chapters in Genesis, we can start reinterpreting Scripture anywhere. If the Bible doesn't mean what it says at the beginning, where does the truth begin in Scripture? So it's not just an intellectual issue. I've said here many people have homosexual friends and they can be very nice people. And when we try to what we think is make a stand against it, we're worried about being perceived as bigoted or unloving. And also what happens is we get challenged in the very areas of scripture that we often use to condemn gay marriage. So sometimes I think we're ill-equipped to deal with those challenges. The first thing we need to realise, ladies and gentlemen, Christians will always be marginalised in a number of areas for making a stand on Scripture. I can tell you dealing with the creation evolution issue in particular is really, really at the cutting edge of the debate. Because in every public institution in this country, every college, every public school, evolution is taught as a fact. And here I am representing a whole ministry that takes an opposite view to what the very mainstream science of the world says today. And as I said, it's a gospel issue. People need to be saved. So let's look at this. You know, Genesis 1-1, it's no mistake that this is the very first chapter in Scripture. In the beginning, God Created the heavens and the earth in the beginning God that means he was there before the heavens and earth that he created Reinforces the fact that it's his creation. He made it he owns it and See this ultimately all of these things go back to I believe what I would describe as the origins issue Because what we believe what people believe about where they came from will ultimately determine their worldview You know, I kind of liken it to these three big questions we talk about in the world, in the church, outside the church. You know, where do we come from? Why are we here? What's the meaning of life? And what happens to us when we die? Well, see, if we're just evolved animals, there is no meaning and purpose to life, ultimately. You can make up your own rules. And when we die, there's no life after death. They just burn you up, put you in the ground. But if the Bible's true, we were created with meaning and purpose. and the decisions we make in this life are going to affect where we spend eternity. But did you see what I did there? Questions two and three will be determined by what you think about number one. It's the origins issue, created or evolved. And in a similar way, we can look at all of these issues I've represented here as fruits on this tree of humanism. The Lord Jesus spoke a lot about trees and their fruit, didn't He? Certain trees, belief systems, will produce certain fruit. We tend to look at those as being the problems facing the church today. I would submit to you they're actually not the problems. They are the fruit of, which is why I've displayed it like that, an underlying problem, which is humanism. Humanism simply means Mankind can make truth for himself. He can decide what's wrong or right for himself. But if there's no God, there's no creator to be accountable to, well, notice the soil that that tree is planted in. Evolution. There is no God. You and I are just basically rearranged pond scum. Makes you feel kind of special, doesn't it? Contrast that with the tree of Christianity. See, ladies and gentlemen, everything you and I need to know about the Christian faith, a need for salvation, the nature of God, comes from where? The Bible. That's why we've got to use it as a lens or a filter for interpreting our world. And if we do that, if we subscribe to that as our belief system, our worldview, we should see fruit in accordance with that worldview. We'll love thy neighbour as thyself. We'll believe in the sanctity of life. Abortion is wrong, because from the moment of conception, we are human. And by the way, mainstream science supports that now. We'll believe it's one man for one woman, because we're going to see that's what the Creator had made. So this tree is rooted on the belief that God is creator and that his word is true. And we look at what God made when it came to marriage. Genesis 127, God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created a male and female, he created them. And then specifically he says, therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother, hold fast to his wife, they shall become one flesh. As Pastor there mentioned before, well, people say, well, the Bible's an antiquated book. You know, it's not relevant for today. And one of the things that often comes up is, well, you know, did Jesus talk about marriage or against homosexual marriage? No, but he affirmed marriage. And we read in Matthew 19, 44, 5, repeating what the Creator had made. Have you not read? Read what? The Scriptures. That He who created them from the beginning from the beginning made them male and female. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother, hold fast to his wife, the two shall become one flesh. Goes on and says therefore man should not separate this concept. That would be a humanistic idea. What does the Bible actually say? Because I think we've got to look at this in the big picture context. All the way through, marriage is portrayed as being good, a lifelong monogamous relationship. That's a symbol of actually the bride of Christ as well. One bride for our Saviour. The family unit was defined by the Creator. See, those events in history give us most of our Christian doctrine today. Do you know there are over 100 references to the book of Genesis in the New Testament? Specifically, Genesis 1 of 11, that's talking about the creation, the fall, the flood, the dispersal after the flood, the Tower of Babel, and so on. There are 60 references. In fact, every Genesis 1 of 11 chapter is referenced in the New Testament. Every New Testament author references Genesis 1 of 11, and the Lord Jesus referenced Genesis 1 of 11 on 16 occasions. I just referenced one of those passages there. There's an absence of any positive portrayal of homosexual activity in the Bible. You know, when we look at what we call the Dominion Mandate, Genesis 128, where mankind is told to go and fill the earth, just to be blunt, homosexual unions cannot achieve that biblical mandate. Scriptures affirm this basis of marriage throughout and it does condemn homosexual activity as sinful. Now, young ones in particular, if you're going to meet people when we get out in the world, and even us big grown-ups in our workplaces, the homosexual groups have what they call six clobber passages in Scripture. That's what they call them, the clobber passages that they believe Christians use to kind of beat them up with. And there's six places where homosexuality is explicitly condemned as sinful. Let's have a look. Because they might say, well, they were cultural practices of the day, and therefore it doesn't mean that they apply today. But look at the big picture of the Bible and get the context right. That's what we're going to do. Of course, in the Old Testament, this famous one, Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis 19, 4 to 11. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called out to Lot, where are the men that came to you tonight? Angels, if you recall. Bring them out. or bring them out to us that we may know them. Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, and I said, I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Pretty horrendous, isn't it? Let me bring them out to you and do to them as you please, only do nothing to these men. But they have come under the shelter of my roof. But they said, stand back. And they said, this fellow came to sojourn, and he has become the judge. Now we will deal worse with you than with them. And they pressed hard against the man lot and drew near to break the door down." Pretty aggressive behavior, right? The men reached out their hands, brought lot into the house with them and shut the door. And they struck with blindness the men who were at the entrance of the door. Keep that in mind. Both small and great that they wore themselves out groping for the door. They were struck out blind, but they're still going for it. Such was their lust. The homosexual argument here is that the sin of the sodomites was related to hospitality and abuse, not homosexual behaviour. In olden times, it was incumbent upon a town to look after foreigners and visitors and look after them and send them on their way. So they claim it was a breach of hospitality conventions. And if the evil sodomites weren't attempting rape, it wouldn't have been as bad. If the men were consenting, it's not a problem. I'm just going to show you the lengths that people go to to redefine scripture based upon cultural practices even of today. So, when we look at this, the sin of Sodom was universal. It wasn't just to these men. All the men were engaging in this sin. The depth of it, they were struck blind but continued. The violation against serious hospitality obligation of ancient times certainly was in effect. Let's look at other passages and do the correct exegetical method here. In Ezekiel 16, 49 to 50, it says, Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom. She and her daughters had pride, excess of food, prosperities, but did not aid the poor and the needy. They were haughty and did an abomination. before me, so I removed them when I saw it." Now, at first glance, that might look like a breach of some sort of hospitality convention. Ezekiel here is talking to Jerusalem, Judah, and the guilt and sin of Judah. It's been linked and reinforced by the sin of Sodom. The word abomination that was used there, the Hebrew tovah, is a clear reference to sexual sin. when we look at Klobber passages 2 and 3 in the Levitical law, it spells it out. You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. It's specifically defining homosexual sin as an abomination. That was what the problem was at Sodom. It wasn't hospitality. And if a man lies with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death, their blood is upon them. Now though, activists get out of this one by saying it refers to prostitution as practiced in some of the idolatrous temples. But the text doesn't actually say that. It's reading into it. And the first and second verses there make it clear what the abomination actually is. Ezekiel's using Toavah because it was drawn from the Levitical law. The first passage defines the sin, and the second, the consequences of the same. So the context, it was listed with other sexual sins, such as adultery, incest, bestiality. The abomination, the punishment, was capital punishment. There was presumed consensual, sorry about the typo, should be not rape, because both are punished there. So I'm just going to briefly go through these, not spending a lot of time on them, but if you want to know more, of course, you can contact us and get some detailed information. Number four, Romans. I think this is really the crux of the matter, what we can draw out here. Romans 1, 24, 27. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity. to the dishonouring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason, for what reason? Because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, God gave them up to dishonourable passions. God doesn't stop people. If you want to go and do it, you can. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves a due penalty for their error." The first thing they did was to suppress the knowledge of the Creator. I mean, that's it. If God is not the creator, then he doesn't own us. We can make up our own rules about life. And that then leads to all sorts of sins. The unnatural sexual desire presented actually as a judgment of God, giving them up to their own desires. It's the natural culmination of unnatural worship of creatures or the creation rather than the creator who should be forever praised. Also, that passage It's the only explicit biblical condemnation of female homosexuality there. So it just doesn't refer, obviously, to men. Number five, 1 Corinthians 6, 9-10. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. neither the sexually immoral, nor the idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." It's a vice list. It lists all those sinful behaviours there. And homosexuality is only one of the sins that will exclude people from the kingdom of God. People engage in all sorts of sins. And everyone who is outside of Christ fits in that list somewhere. And such were some of you. Man, I used to be part of that list. But by the grace of God, His unmerited favor, something I didn't deserve, something homosexuals don't deserve. but by the grace of God they can be saved and changed. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. So Paul actually lists, I mean he's talking to former sinners here. These sins are not their identity now because they've been washed in the blood of Christ. And he lists a whole bunch of sins that will keep people out of heaven. But then immediately contrast by giving them hope through salvation. All sinners need the gospel. I submit to you it's actually cruel, as difficult as it is in this environment, but it's actually cruel to withhold that from homosexual people. If we just allow them to continue in their sin, thinking it's okay. It's just a sin, like every other sin in terms of the way that the Bible describes it. Now, sure, in this life, sexual sin sometimes reaps much greater consequences, doesn't it, in terms of its effect on children and families and so on, than, hey, gluttony or something like that. Number six, 1 Timothy. Understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers for murderers, for the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine. It's another vice list. And again, it's not listed as a special sin. All sin excludes us from a relationship with God. It requires the acceptance of the gospel to deal with it. So again, talking to sinners, former sinners, So these must be understood in the light of the Bible's positive big picture. When we talk about heaven, what are we talking about? We're talking about a restored creation where there will be no more sin, no death. And only if God is the creator described in Genesis can he restore and recreate exactly, restoring it back to what it was or similar to what it was, back in Genesis 1, the Garden of Eden. Only the Creator has the power to save us. And these are not just cultural norms. In fact, various sorts of homosexual activity were allowed and even celebrated in the first century. So Paul, in some respects, has actually been counter-cultural by mentioning those. What some of the gay lobby will say is that these things were cultural norms back then, but Paul is saying they're not. If they were, he's opposing them. These passages show that we shouldn't compromise on this issue. Ideally, using these passages and witnessing to homosexuals should immediately precede a gospel presentation, actually helping them understand they're really no different from me or you. issue is you're trying to justify a sinful behavior that the Bible says is wrong and as I said we've all probably at some stage recognized that we probably fit in that list ourselves somewhere. So let's look at some of the arguments for gay marriage and these are some of the what I call the stereotypical arguments unfortunately, even as I say, many Christians buy into them. What about the idea that it's unloving to oppose gay marriage? That's what my daughter heard in college. Again, let's define love biblically. It's never loving to approve of someone's sin. You don't love someone when you ignore their sin, when you don't bring correction. God is love. He defines the boundaries of love, particularly when it comes to relationships between human beings, and love means wanting the best for that person. The natural human desire in all of us to be loved more than anything else. Homosexuality is dangerous, we're going to see, for a person's physical health, and of course it separates them from the gospel. You know, if love is the criterion I mean, would it be okay if I loved somebody else's wife? Of course not. And I'm sorry, I'm gonna, as I go on here, I know some young ones here, it's difficult to talk about this subject without being blunt, but, you know, what if today, I mean, what we're doing, obviously, as you're gonna see, is we're not redefining marriage, we're undefining it. And if love is the criteria, as human beings, we are capable of loving all sorts of things. I remember when my beautiful Labrador dog died. I cried for days. I loved my dog. Wouldn't be right to marry my dog, would it? Because the Bible says these relationships are bound purely for human beings. Arguments for gay marriage is at an unchangeable genetic position. This is this idea that people are born that way. Well, currently, there is no genetic basis for this. But I can tell you they're trying hard to find one. And we have to be careful, I would suggest to you, about hanging too much on that. Because we still really are looking through a glass pretty darkly when we look at the DNA of human beings and every creature. We're still discovering all sorts of things there. I would say, actually, if we are, we're actually all born that way. We're born sinners. You know, what if there was a genetic predisposition for murder? Would that be okay? No, of course not. See, but what happens in a humanistic environment is man makes the rules. If enough people believe or promote something, then they change the rules to sort themselves. It's hard at the moment to link any behaviour to genetics. People are more complex than that. It would appear most of the influences come from cultural, family-type situations, what we might call the nurture arguments more. As I said, we're born sinners. The Bible says that we were helpless sinners, or we are helpless sinners, and that's why Christ had to come. A testimony here from a former homosexual activist. A lady, she said, at 15, I experienced sexual abuse from three different older men and further rejected any notion that God could exist. The pastor asked me why I labeled myself as a homosexual. I answered, I was born that way. He said, he just saw me as a child of God. And she said, over time, the Lord convicted us through his word, the truth. See, got back to believing the Bible. As I drew closer to Jesus, He began to reveal to me the things that occurred in my past which led me to embrace that lifestyle. And God began to heal those deep wounds in me. I have completely turned away from denying His existence and living a life of homosexuality of 24 years. Homosexuals can be saved. But the basis for convicting them has to be reaffirming in all sorts of areas, ladies and gentlemen, even if it's science, that God's word is truth, that it is his revelation to mankind. That was the point she reached. Is it simply a choice? Well, as I said, we've all got desires, to be frank, that we wish we didn't have. While some stay in their orientation, many people experiencing same-sex attraction claim they do not choose to feel that way. It's a very difficult concept for us to grasp. But when you look at some of their testimonies, like this one here, Robert Bowman, he said he hated himself. Hated himself because of his attraction. He said, there was a frightening force from deep within my being, an involuntary reaction I neither understood nor accepted it, and I came to hate myself." But you see, the more that we say, actually, that's okay, you're born that way, it's quite normal, then people naturally lose that self-conviction that they would have over some of these things. Environmental and experiential factors can influence sexual identity. There's no question of that. just as is the case with other facets of a person's identity. We can probably sit here and think, who am I more like, my mum or my dad? Because of the influences of our background, experiences we may have had at school with other people tend to shape the people that we come to be. Usually neither an inborn tendency nor a conscious choice. It's something more complex. What I'm trying to say here is we've also got to be careful of just using a one-size-fits-all argument for people. Teens, for example, and there's lots of documented research to show this, who said they felt homosexual tendencies in their adolescence stated they didn't feel that way when they grew up. Well, you and I know this. Unfortunately, when we're teens, there's all sorts of hormones raging in our bodies that confuse even our brain functions. And it's often been said that male brains, for example, take longer to mature than female brains in this regard. Here's one. Don't homosexual animals prove it is natural? As a ministry, this is probably the most common argument we get thrown at us. Why? Because it has an evolutionary basis. It's an appeal to naturalism. See, if humans are just animals, right? Well, we see animals do it in the wild, then what's wrong with human beings doing it? Well, it should be an insulting argument, I think, to regard us as animals, but that's what evolutionists believe. We're human beings and we're not forced to act on instinct. That's certainly something that separates us from the animals. And sorry to be just a little blunt here, but animals basically do not do it in the wild, if I can put it that way. For example, you might see a male lion might jump on another male lion, but it's usually as a show of dominance or something like that in the wild. Or animals kept in captivity might do that, where they don't have access to a normal or natural mate. But again, no actual sex takes place. It's an urban myth. It doesn't take place. And you can't use that argument for female homosexuality, can you? because you certainly don't see that in the wild. So, as I said, more common in captivity and unnatural environments. And here's the other thing. It defies the very basis of naturalism that they're appealing to. Evolution, if you know anything about the science of evolution, it's all about reproduction. You know, it was commonly called, misnomered, survival of the fittest. But in effect, what it means is reproducing more than your competitor, producing more offspring so you can survive better, you can pass your genes on, more than the opposition. Well, of course, homosexual behaviour would not allow that to happen. So, as I said, it defies the very concept they're appealing to. That's what I'm saying. You can use their arguments against them on occasions. And again, male and female reproductive organs are complementary. They're wonderfully designed to reproduce. You know, even if you appeal to an evolutionary argument, you'd have to say, well, you'd appeal to male and female sexual activity rather than male-male. But of course, we understand the creator designed it that way. Homosexual activity, as we all know, is very unsafe. much higher risk of injury, sexually transmitted diseases. All of this is before factoring in the unquestionable higher promiscuity in homosexual communities. Because, to be honest, it's not so much about relationships as lust and sex. In one study, homosexuality shortened life by as much as eight to 21 years. in a person's life on average. By comparison, just to give you an example, smoking most of your life will reduce the lifespan by about 10 years. And we have health warnings on cigarette packets emblazoned all over it. It's quite ironic, isn't it? Homosexuals suffer twice the risk of domestic abuse. 50% higher rates of mental disorders, suicidal thoughts, substance abuse, and self-harm. Well documented, ladies and gentlemen. as far back, believe it or not, as the late 70s. So the information has been out there for a long, long time. Why would we not speak up and allow people to engage in this lifestyle? Self-harm. Here's some more research that we have today. It's terrible for children. And gay adoption has become very, very much a part of the same-sex marriage issue. Comprehensive studies reveal that children raised in same-sex homes compared unfavourably with children raised in traditional two-parent households. Poor educational attainment, worse mental health, impulsive behaviour, more likely to depress suicidal thoughts, commit violent crime. I identify as bisexual, gay, early sexual activity, higher rates of infections and higher rates of molestation, more likely to be unemployed, abuse drugs and alcohol, and are involved in greater rates of crime and have a higher arrest record. So now when I read these things out, it sounds like I'm trying to clobber the homosexual community. No. This is a bit almost like a mini-Holocaust, that we are condemning children who don't even have a choice in the matter. The other one, the 10% myth, we've all heard of that, right? Well, when I wrote a little booklet, I wanted to be careful, and me and my colleague who wrote it, Lita Kosner, we went to every country where we could find information on it. and we couldn't find a population more than about 2.8% from figures presented. This came from a now discredited Alfred Kinsey study years and years ago. The sample group was skewed, but it's taken on a life of its own. So if somebody raises to you, well, hang on, 10% of the population identify with that, we can say, well, actually, it's not correct. In the US, 2.8% of males and 1.4% of females identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. And you know what? I found that in the legal brief, in the footnotes of a legal brief prepared by homosexual lobbyists who are about to go to court. So why change the laws in a democratic country for such a tiny minority? That sounds rather undemocratic to me. civil rights. Very interesting that the gay marriage debate is being linked with the slavery issue. Akin to it, they claim that they're discriminated against. Ladies and gentlemen, it's a fallacious argument. As soon as you speak up, they want to say, you're discriminating against me. We don't let nine-year-olds get married. We don't let men marry their sisters currently. Are we discriminating against them? Well, Who knows, the laws might change soon. Until this redefinition of marriage, homosexuals simply did not qualify for marriage. It wasn't a case of discrimination. Being compared to a civil rights issue like slavery, it's incorrect. The issue there was recognising people of, you know, having more melanin in their skin. I always avoid the word colour because actually all people have the same colour. It's just a brown pigment called melanin. Some of us have more of it than others. But it was actually identifying them as human beings. And the Bible has always said of one man, of all nations of men, God made them human beings, male and female. The Bible had it right all along. It was actually Charles Darwin, particularly in his second book, The Descent of Man, who brought forward those arguments that the so-called black races, he felt, had less mental capacity than the so-called evolved white races. Again, that was the science of the day, all known now to be horribly wrong. So this is not about whether homosexuals are human beings. Of course they are. We recognise that. It's not a civil rights issue at all. You know, I've done a lot of ministry in South Africa, and you know the issues they've had there with apartheid. And I often made the point when I was out there, nobody says that gay people can't use the same water fountains, right? Again, be prepared to deal with these arguments. And as I said before, ladies and gentlemen, this is what's really happened. Marriage has not been redefined. It's been undefined. The minute you say it's not a man and a woman, anything is up for grabs. And this is why I believe that as Christians, we need to make a stand. Not against homosexuals, but against what they propose and what they believed. Gay marriage changed the universal definition of marriage that existed for all of human history. Whether you're a Bible believer or an evolutionist, you can't disagree with that point. It's been the convention in society since we can remember, from what earliest records we have. But this undefinition now will actually lead to persecution against Christians. Why? You don't have to be against gay marriage. All you have to do is make a stand for traditional marriage. And then you will hear it's unloving, or people's civil rights are being breached, as I said. In fact, a homosexual man by the name of Doug Mainwaring said, the notion of same-sex marriage, by the way, all these testimonies I've given are people who have become Christians. The notion of same-sex marriage is implausible. Yet political correctness has made stating the obvious a risky business. Genderless marriage is not marriage at all. It is something else entirely. Absolutely. Do you know, as I said earlier, in many countries, just speaking up and supporting traditional marriage now is being regarded as hate speech. In my home country of Australia, New Zealand, in the UK, I was just sharing a couple of years ago, I was in the UK and I was in a church on a Wednesday evening. I was talking about creation evolution and two men at the back asked me a question about gay marriage. I didn't know who they were. I was a visitor and then it was later revealed to me they were actually a couple of gay activists and they were recording the answer. Only a few weeks before another Christian minister had been in there on a very pro-family a platform, had said some things that made the national news, and they were calling for his arrest. He may have been even withheld in that country. We've seen in Europe pastors who've been prosecuted, not for speaking outside the church, but from the pulpit on a Sunday morning. This is the great challenge over this issue, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know how it's going to go down. But we've already seen in this country Christian businesses who've been prosecuted for not wanting to make flowers or bake a cake. So our religious beliefs, it would appear, are not going to be exempt. We're going to be forced to basically think the way that others do. Well, we don't have to do that, do we? But what happens? Are we really facing a time in this country where If you had a Christian business or your pastors said something, they could risk losing their jobs. Could they be thrown in jail? How would the wives and the children be supported? Because we make a stand. See, that's the great fear we would have. And in fact, that's why we're silenced so often on the issue. It's also why I said earlier, if we see those things as Christians, we need to support each other on this issue. But at the end of the day, ladies and gentlemen, the gospel is the answer. Let's not come up with the stereotypical portrayal of the homosexual community. If we can display as difficult as it is, and I confess to you, I talk about this, but I don't find it an easy subject to deal with. You know, I fly about every two weeks on a plane somewhere in America to do ministry, and I've been confronted with it and the seats next to me. You know, what do you do in those situations? Well, I tell you what, I pray for God's strength and pray that I won't get forced into a situation where I'll have to say something that might be regarded as unloving. But you know, 12 men spreading out from the Middle East changed the world under the power of the Holy Spirit. We should not think that it's beyond God to change lives. He changed mine. He's changed yours. And I've read some testimonies here where he's changed people from their lifestyle. Jesus says the truth will set us free. And that's in a whole range of areas, ladies and gentlemen. The wrong way to respond This young man, Kyle, his sad story was similar to others I'd heard. After 25 years of immersion in the gay lifestyle, he wanted out. Kyle thought his church would be a safe harbour during the storm. But when he came out to his pastor and a counsellor, both told him never to speak of his plight again. 15 years of celibacy later, Kyle came out a second time. Surely things have changed, he thought. It must be safe now. After all, everyone has struggles and temptations. But he was mistaken. They turned a blind eye to his struggle, discouraged him from serving, and relegated him to attending and tithing. Well, I actually agree with the last part. But obviously, how was it portrayed to him? Christians should not respond to homosexuals in fear or hatred, but rather showing biblical love and sharing the gospel with them. See, you can't get into trouble for that yet, can we? Just sharing the gospel. not making a condemnation, but dealing with their arguments, maybe in a whole range of areas, some of those things that I brought up. And you can say, well, actually, that's not correct. They are sinners just like you and I. And I had to add something at the last minute here because there's another issue that's come up because of popular celebrities in the media and on TV. What about transgender people? Well, their figures are much less. It's less than 1%. And many of us, to be honest, we don't really know people who say they identify as transgender. But what's really happening here, the body and the mind are somehow out of alignment, which reflects the truth. Well, to be honest, our DNA pretty much determines who we are. And again, do we look back to cultural influences or something like that? And one of the big challenges we face today, the more that these lifestyles are celebrated, promoted in the media, the more that it creates an awareness of them. Somebody said that any advertising is good advertising. And certainly I think that's what that community believes. So there's just a bit of a snapshot, I think, to say or to help us understand we do have answers. As I said, we resort back to the gospel, but there are typical, stereotypical arguments that they use. And in that booklet, particularly those ones I just mentioned, I went through there, they're covered in that booklet and more. And this booklet, I have to say, is not a, be frank, is not a Bible-thumping exercise, as we might say in the States. Don't worry, the gospel is there. But it's for people who are struggling with this issue, and even for Christian families. And you'd be amazed how many Christian families have written to us actually thanking us for having just a little booklet, a resource that they felt they could pass on. And it was written in a loving tone, not in a condemning tone, for example. So lots of resources there and I think we're going to have a Q&A time for a few moments now.