had a lot of problems. He had a lot of problems. He had he had so so much. So what what would you Brian like like because I know that I mean Brian, Greg, what would you say to a new believer, or not a new believer, but a person who may be straddling a fence or needs to hear the gospel. You used to do street preaching. I used to do street preaching. What's your opener? You're talking to people right now. What do you tell them? Well, a good saying I heard once is, before you can get someone saved, you gotta get them lost. So I start with the bad news, you know, and about how we all fell in Adam. We're, you know, we're already on death row, on the living row, right? The entire planet is basically a holding cell and we're all just waiting execution. And in your heart of hearts, You know you're terrified of it. And I just kind of appeal to my own experience on that, you know. Say in your heart of hearts, I know, you know, I know you have ways to distract yourself from it, but I also know that there's those quiet moments when your head hits that pillow at night, that it terrifies you. And you don't have an answer for it. Right? And there's nothing you can do about it. You cannot solve that problem. But, and then I go with the but God, you know, just like in scripture, right? And then I'll say, but there is one man, you know, who did, you know, live a life of perfect obedience to God the Father, and therefore he was not under the death sentence like the rest of us. And even though he wasn't, he willingly, you know, took that unaliving penalty upon himself in the place of the guilty like you and like me. And then he rose from the dead, defeated the grave, giving evidence that God the Father accepted that sacrifice. And he is your only hope. And if you want life, if you want to live, he's the only one who can give it to you. You have to put your trust in him. So Brother Star Tide, He says this, and he's on the panel. He says the gospel is not a formal, I'm assuming you meant formula. Oh, you did say that in the next one. The gospel is not a formula. Do you think that what Greg was describing is formulaic? Because I don't, but I want to hear why you think it is. If you do. Sure, I'll, can you hear me? Yep. You're fine. I think it's the way we're perceiving what God's doing and how we're describing the work of God in the gospel. How would you do it? How would you do it? So I think I'm doing it right now. And I think we're all doing it if we're carrying the truth, whenever we're talking to anybody, because we're the only people that have light and see. So when we speak, we speak in different ways that other men can't understand. And I know this to be true because I've said the things that I say long enough to see people see, believe I'm a weirdo. Okay? Uh, which is probably legit. That's fair. Um, but, um, so what I'm trying to say, I guess, is when you know, God has a people that are guaranteed to come in. You don't approach presenting the gospel as if it's being peddled or hawked. And I don't mean to be offensive to Greg. I don't think that's whatever he thought he was doing in his heart. I understand that. That's just, I'm telling you, this is how I perceive it. I come with what I unapologetically claim to be true, despite who it offends. Anybody who knows you is not gonna know anything different. And that's what they deserve as from friends. So you know, then, at least I know when I'm dealing with somebody, and they won't receive what I have to say. You know, I'll walk with a man, I have no problem. Anyways, I guess I'm saying God's doing the saving. He's blessed us to carry a knowledge of a truth. And the faithfulness to that truth is what saves. It's not convincing a man that he's been bad enough, that he hasn't been good enough. See, brother, that's why I got to disagree with you. I disagree with you on that. I think you're wrong there. You're wrong here. And put it this way. But here's what I'm saying. I think that it's wrong in saying that, because when you say that's not how it's done, you are attesting to a formula and that's not part of it. So what I'm saying, so whenever you say this part doesn't work or that doesn't work, that doesn't work, you are admitting to a formula of some kind, which means that you have your own and that's fine. And I think that God works with everybody differently. And I think that especially anybody, because I know street preachers. I used to be one myself. And so you have to meet people where they are. And I know you, Star Tide, I know the things you say, you're very, you're hardcore. And there are a lot of people that need to take it that way. That's how I need to hear it. That's how I need to hear it. Other people, Some people have gentle spirits. Some people are boisterous. Some people are easily depressed. So we always, like you said, have to tell people the truth. Have to tell people the truth. But when I asked Greg, I was like, what do you tell people here? And that's true because when you look at Christ, He definitely had a style about how he dealt with people. And it depends on who he was dealing with. He had, for the Pharisees and the Sadducees, he had thunderbolts. He was raw. And he would ask them questions so that the answers would be in their heads condemning them. But he could do that. He could do that. But the point I'm making here is this. God has given each of us, you know, a measure of faith. And he's given us a way of speaking, a manner about us, a personality, you know, the things that make each one of us individuals. And that's what we're supposed to use. We're supposed to use what we are. There's a very different preacher between Paul and Peter were very different preachers, very different. John and James, very different. You know, David and Jehoshaphat, very different. You know, Elisha and Elijah, very different. It goes on throughout the scriptures. So, I think that there's a reason why we are individuals and that God uses our individuality to bring about his own purposes as long as we submit to his word and communicate the truth of his word. Like, I'm sure you agree with Star Tidal Net. It's like, We're supposed to take these things that God has shown us and teach us and go out there and persuade people to believe the truth. Even in Romans though, like if you read Romans chapter one through three, it is the bad news first. It is. Like he's cutting humanity raw in chapter three, like down to the bone. The words that got to me, because my conversion was a lot like Greg's. My conversion happened immediately when I read these words for the first time. Do not fear him who can destroy the body and that's it, but rather fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. 1983, the first time we get mail when I was in boot camp, I picked up a Bible that I had no intention of reading. And I came across those words that started in Matthew was just a New Testament Bible. And I read those and I was like, and I was like, Lord, no one ever told me that this is what you say. This is what you say. I never heard that before. All those years of going to my godparents church in different places. I never heard those words before. Never. On the flip side of the coin, Brother Jonathan, the Bible does say, it is the goodness of God that brings man unto repentance. Right. But it's the goodness of God. Yes. Yeah. It's His goodness. But sometimes the way He does it, for some of us, has to be a little harsher than it is with others. He's got to break up that stony ground right there. Yeah. And I was one of the, I was one of those people, um, that, you know, that, that had to go the hard route. And so, uh, and I'm thankful that I did it. It's like, I'm sure all of us did. Were you a thug? No, no, I am now though. You thugging for Jesus. Yeah. But I was like, I was like, I wonder if brother Jonathan was a thug, like an OG back in the day. Nah. No, I wasn't. Now, I grew up in that world, but that's for another discussion, another day. Were you a perfectionist? Perfectionist and a people pleaser? No, I wasn't that either. No, he wasn't a people pleaser. I could say perfectionist. I agree with Heather on that. Yeah, that's why I was asking where you sat in that. No, I was definitely not a people pleaser for sure. Brother Jonathan, I wanna interview you. On your live, I want to interview you. You're going after me. On my live? Yes. I'll be texting you in the background, Meg. Yes. Yes. May I pitch in on the question of how to approach giving the gospel? Go ahead, brother. What's your thoughts? First of all, I did type in my thoughts when I was responding to Star Tide in the text, and it said exactly what you said, is you've got to meet each person right where they are. And so I think the first thing that happens is you don't want this to be a monologue. You want this to be a discussion. There may be a point at which you break off and it becomes a monologue for a certain amount of the period of what you need to to establish his truth. But when you begin that monologue in the beginning, the Holy Spirit can do a wonderful thing that is miraculous. He can actually help you see inside a person's words they use, and very quickly understand where their thinking is and what's in their heart. And it is beyond the normal man. You will feel it. You will know, oh my gosh, this guy is here. He doesn't believe maybe that the Bible's the truth. Or it's a problem with thinking that God became a man, you know, or something, it'll focus down to one thing that's a hurdle that you have to overcome. But in that discussion that is free form, and like we say, different, there are some ground level things that always have to be brought up, that they have to understand before they will be even ready for you to ask the question, would you like to receive them? Right. What you said, brother, is dead on, especially in the beginning part. And it made me think about this verse in Isaiah real quick. I'll read it. A bruised reed shall he not break, and a smoking flax shall he not quench. In other words, if somebody is already broken, weak or feeble, don't go out of your way to like, to, to, to, to make it worse. If a person is already broken, then there's a different, there's a different, you know, approach to it. And like I said, it's always different. And I remember when I used to go street witnessing and we used to go knock on doors and we used to go to open air venues like Greg, um, So many times you have a bunch of people there, and when somebody starts to soften up, then you got everybody just throwing lobs, trying to get their words in. And I used to tell people all the time, would you please shut up? you know, and let either me talk or let this other person talk or you talk. But when everybody starts getting in and dog piling on people, they're like going, you know, they're like, wait a minute, all these people, because that's how Christians get, they get excited. And rightly so. I mean, Greg, was that your experience when you were out there with a bunch of different people like Ray Comfort and those guys? Funny you should ask. Just a word of clarification. When you first asked me the question, for some reason, my mind immediately went to like an open air scenario where I'm addressing a group. So that's why the monologue. And I should have thought of this before I answered, but obviously it's different when you're just talking to someone one-on-one. If I'm doing one-on-one with someone, I'm asking the questions. What do you think happens when you die? I'm asking them the questions, you know what I mean? No, but it's different. No, but you did answer my question when I asked it. Oh, okay. No, you got it right. Yeah, okay, yeah, so, yeah, but I should have clarified anyway, because, you know, it's a totally different approach between addressing a group and having a conversation with an individual, even though even in the group setting, our goal was always to get it to a conversation, like, you know, we would just set up and you know, start, you know, starting the monologue to a group and get a crowd. And then when someone in the crowd, you know, yells out, Oh yeah, come on up to the mic. We'd have a, we'd have a hecklers mic set up so they could come up and engage. And so we'd have them come up. That was the goal to have a one-on-one anyway. What was your other question again? Oh, was that my experience? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. You know, when, um, Like you said, they're like sharks in the water. They smell blood and they just want to get in on it and get their two cents in. And everybody's like, well, the Holy Spirit wants me to say this. You know what? See, and that's one thing about like, I'm very, I like structure. I like organization. And because it's necessary, to be honest with you, in order to make things come across in a way that they should. But I think that orderly is something that is good for us all to be. But anyway, I had another question for you, Greg, and that was this. In fact, does anybody else have a question for Greg before I ask another one? Anybody else? I actually have two things to add, John, to this gospel presentation. All right. Okay, and both of them are things that were addressed or were stated that I think they might have slid by one is the sense of urgency and It has to be balanced because sometimes while I'm watching say somebody trying to bring somebody else to the Lord There's almost too much pressure that's placed on the person and I don't think that's right Because it should be that you develop this conversation in such a way that the person is being drawn to make the decision, not pushed. Because that's, first of all, that's recognizing what we're talking about first, that this is about their decision, not you making them to make it. You know, so we work with that rather than this pressuring with, you know, the end result if you don't believe. I hear you. I don't agree with always mentioning hell. And if I do, I will often say, here's the thing. It's not about all the torture and all the ugly stuff. It's a place that we will ultimately choose to go there if we go. And God will not be there. and you will not ever have the chance to make that decision to have interaction with them ever again. Yeah, but see what you're describing there is an approach you take. Yes. What you're describing is an approach you take. Yes. But this goes back to what Star Trek was saying that I disagree with, which is rare for me to agree with what he says. But in this case, I do. I don't think that I don't think that there is. So here's what I say if you look at something from a formulaic type of a way. We're talking about urgency though. Where does urgency come from and what is that urgency based on? Is it based on scaring somebody into heaven or is it based on drawing them because of the love of God and presenting I don't, I don't, I don't think that those, I don't think that those two things are necessarily exclusive of one another. Yes. How do we make the criteria of who fits in those categories? Right. We're going to have a school and maybe we'll pass some tests and get the 90 percenters out there because they understand the best. You know what I mean? But I think people's walk, here's, here's one thing that I've seen too, is I have seen for my own eyes, when people are scared or feared into believing, oftentimes it makes believers also have this fire and brimstone type of faith. where they're preaching hell. You know what I mean? And it's just like, that is, it's the goodness of God. I mean, I don't think any believer should- So Meg, let me stop you for a second, okay? And there's a reason for it. It has to do with what you just said. You said it's the goodness of God. So when you say the goodness of God, how do you mean that? Because I think that... Well, the goodness of God is both. God is both just. He is a judge. Thank you, Brother Ken, for this. He is a warrior. He is the sustainer. But there's the other side to love, which is a protector. And so I think so many people view God as just like this hippie with a peace sign, and it's not that way. He is, he is just and he is sovereign. And there's, it's not just all of that. Love also protects, love also, you know. One thing that I will say about this whole thing, because it's actually a good conversation to have. And I like what Man on a Mission is talking about and I like Star Tide introducing this. I think it makes sense. It's a good conversation to have. But one thing that we have to understand And we all have to understand, because I mean, so far, I don't think anybody on this subject has said anything wrong. But what I'm saying is this, we are each individuals and we have a personality. And God uses what we know in our personalities, when we're willing to share with someone, he uses what we have. He uses what he gave us to reach out to people. All of us could go out somewhere, you know, over a month going out preaching, whatever. And there will inevitably be somebody that all of us can't talk to, but there's one in this group that can talk to, that somebody can talk to. I guarantee you that the types of people that Heather might talk to and get through will probably be completely different than the people I can talk to. The Lord made me a chameleon, brother. Well, I mean, all of us play that role. So what I'm saying is, we learn to adjust the situation. Because we have to remember this, it's not us. It's not us. God knows who he puts us in front of because he put us there. Amen. That's true. Would you guys read a verse about the love? Go ahead. Song of Solomon, chapter eight, verse six. Six and seven, really, but really on verse six. Read both. Meg, I don't have it in front of me right now. Solomon? Song of Solomon, chapter eight. verses six and seven, but verses six is the pointed part. Speaking of the fierce, yeah. Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm. For love is strong as death, jealousy as cruel as the grave, the coals thereof are coals of fire, which has a most vehement flame. Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it. If a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be condemned. Amen. Amen. We know his love is fierce. We know that he is a jealous God. And it says that many waters cannot quench love. So the depths, the heights, the breadth, the width in Ephesians 3, 14 through 19, where it says that his, the love of Christ surpasses knowledge. Right. Basic scripture. It's the, it's the core. And it has to be expounded. It must be expounded when you give somebody the gospel. John 3.16, for God so loves the world. He loved is the word, but he is loving the world. And when I'm speaking to somebody, I want to tell them, do you know what? God has you on his heart right now, because I'm speaking to you, and I want you to know he cares about you. He is reaching out to you, and his love is so, it's so much deeper than we can understand, that it drove him to the radical level that he went to to make sure that you were saved and all men are saved. Can I can I speak to that? Yeah, I want to say something to John when I get there. Go ahead. Well, let me let's have Brian. I know you asked me already. So Brian and then Star Tide. Well, for one, both Star Tide and Brother Jonathan are correct. It sounds weird, but they are. This was the point that I was trying to make the other night when I was talking about how we try to take God and bring him down into a box. I believe that's the point that Star Tide is making. What we do is, Brother Johnson is right, each one of us are individuals, our testimonies and how God uses us, our past experiences. We don't know how God will use us in that individual situation. But at the same time, God is the one that's drawing them, just like the scripture say, one plants, one waters, but God provides the increase. Okay, so what we do and what I hear like several people doing, and we all do this, we say, Brother Johnson tells me he was talking to somebody and somebody got saved and I listened to it and I say, I hear exactly what he said and I tried to copy that and say, okay, yeah, that's the formula. That's what I need to do. But look at how insane that is. This is what I mean about, well, we might as well all go out and listen to a donkey then because God used it at one time to speak his word. OK, well, I was saved in prison. Do we need to send everybody to prison so they can get saved? Sounds crazy, don't it? Does that's what we do. We try to make whatever work once into a formula and try to replicate it. Right. Don't need to do that. Just follow the spirit in that situation, in that certain circumstances. Go ahead, start. Sorry, guys. That's right, brother. Go ahead. There's a lot going through my head right now, and I'm a slow processor, guys. Sorry. That's all right. Take your time. Yeah, so I don't... What was the individual prior, Mr. Orion? Man on a Mission? Yeah, I don't know. He's got a cool picture with that purple... I like it. Yeah, that's Man on a Mission. Brother Kenny. I'm trying to get used to these new glasses, so... You have mine on right now, so you're all blur. I'm just kidding Yeah, so I'm gonna I just have to say that I I don't even come with his message I don't believe what he believes You know and I I don't think that I You know, I know my father believes that, and my father's gone to the Philippines. He's done a lot of work in that Jesus's name. The Jesus who wants to save everybody, but loses most to hell. That failed in his salvation. That's not my Jesus. My Jesus is the successful savior of everyone he went to the cross for. That's the ones he set his eye on, and those are the only ones he loves. He has never loved some, and they will find that out, and many of them are in religion. Uh, from what I can tell. So, uh, yeah, so I, that's why I say I come and just try to be faithful with what I believe because I know it's offensive. And I believe that the message is hard to receive. And when I see somebody receive it, I know they're not receiving it because it's carnal, because I know it's hard to hear. But I believe that I can maybe see that God's doing a work of grace in their heart, causing them to see what I'm saying is true. That's what, that's the way I operate in life. That's the way I, that's the way I try, that's the way I pray. The Lord makes me, you know guys, for years, I was a very strict father. I mean, and I was, well, should I say it that way? I don't know. And now I look back and I regret the way I have handled my kids in some ways, okay? He's blessed me, they love me now. But you know, after my conversion, it wasn't just me getting in their face with some formula because it's the way I can just tell them something and they're going to listen to that new dad that they don't know is new. You know, this work that God does, He does it in people who know you. He says that we speak with our feet. I take that to mean that it's, you know, our actions speak louder than our words. And my kids had to learn that their father was actually a new man before they may start be willing to listen to me. Because to them, I'm just that same old dad. See, this is real. And it actually works itself out in our lives. And the people that I'm most concerned about in salvation are the people that are in my direct umbrella right now. And that makes a lot of sense. That's why I want my life to them to reflect what I know the work is being done in me. and a can often turn people off because I had a father that was like that. Is that an authoritarian stance? It's like, you listen to me because I'm your father and yada, yada, yada. And maybe that works for children that are destined for military or... But hold on. Before we go down that path right now, respectfully, what I don't want to do is be critical about what he said about that because he acknowledged that. No, I'm actually in line with what he's saying. I'm agreeing with him. All right. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. And so, yes, it's great that you... Gosh, it's wonderful that you see that because... Somehow you were able to put yourself on the other side of seeing you and realize, I wouldn't even want that either. Yeah, I didn't put myself on the side of anything. If you knew the man that came to my knees to cry out to be saved, It'd be foolish to think that I ordained and orchestrated my life to that point. OK, so there was this was not me doing anything or me needing salvation at a moment in my life. And that's what this is, guys. This is not trying to find the guy to say you were able to convince because you know what? You got the right words and you understand the right doctrine. This is about God coming to men with truth who are in need of it. That's what he did for me. He brought me to my knees. The first thing I did, I went straight to a church, man. That's where you go, right? I just needed God. I didn't give a shit who he was. I just needed God. That's where I was. I was gonna lose my whole family. Everything I worked my life for. Because I was a fool. Brother, when you talk, it's like I can feel it. I can really feel it. He and Heather both had that thing with me. Salvation. When they talk, I just feel it. He tells you to look to the pit from which you were dug. I can do that easily. There's a lot of shame in my past. Well, brother, one thing that we all know, we all know, there is no burden too great for Christ to carry for us. And when he saved each and every one of us, it was once and for all. There was no sin that he left behind. that needs to be dealt with that he didn't deal with on that cross. He heals families. I don't know how he does it, man. All I've been doing is just studying the word and wanting to learn and wanting to know him because that's what he said. That's where salvation is. That's how I don't want to go back to what I was. Don't ever go back. I was miserable. I was lost. You can't, brother. It's impossible. Yep, that's impossible. That's why Shalhoub Hinson was our God coming to us when he ordained us to come to that point, because that's the lesson we needed to learn. Amen. On this side, man, on this side, we know we're not doing anything. We know it's all his power that keeps us believing. Amen. Because if we're left to ourself, we'll return to our own vomit. who makes us defend His glory because it's the thing that He gave His Son, man. So, I mean, what higher cost, right? To do something than to give your Son to do it. I mean, when anyone tramples on that work and puts their hand to it and said, well, I made a decision. or I walked away, I was in Bible study, in the men's group, the accountability program, whatever you wanna call them, right? All the witty inventions of men. You know, it's funny because today I did a post out of Romans 8, And it says that in Romans 8 32 and then I'm gonna let Greg close this up But in Romans 8 verse 32. Oh Man, I messed up here. Let me see Because I want to get this out here Romans 8 Might not have been 32. It might have been 3. Oh, yeah verse 3 It says what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh and God sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. But the thing that I posted on today was the part when he says, God sending his own son. And it made me think, why would he have to say that? God sent his own son. And then I began to think, because there are other sons that God has called sons. Angels, saints, he's called us sons of God. But there's a difference between Jesus Christ being his own son. In other words, he's different. He's not an angel, and he's not a man. He's very different. And God sent him in the likeness of sinful flesh. He didn't come in sinful flesh, he came in the likeness of sinful flesh. And there's no page of scripture that deals with Christ, and most of them do, where he is not to be looked for and elevated in our own eyes and our own estimation. And this is what we always need to keep finding and looking for and continue to elevate and to glorify Him in the eyes of ourselves, and more importantly, in the eyes of others. Like Star Tide was saying, you're reaching out to your family, for sure. But with that being said, Greg's testimony, on Testimony Tuesdays, the person that's giving the testimony closes with the last word. Whatever you wanna say, Greg, the floor is yours. Okay, so, you know, if I'm a doctor and a patient of mine came in last month for his yearly, his annual physical, right? And as a result, I found out that he has a condition, a fatal condition and, you know, he'll be dead within six months unless he follows this prescribed treatment for the next 90 days to the T, right? So I know there's a treatment, but it has to be followed to the letter, and it's gotta be done consistently, right? When I call him into the office, I'm not just gonna hand him a bottle of pills and say, here, just make sure you take two of these three times a day, okay? I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna sit him down. I want him to know the gravity of the situation. I want, he has to understand it. Then I'll give him the prescription. I'll give him the cure. And that's kind of my objective with the gospel. Whether it's in a group setting, a one-on-one with a stranger, or a one-on-one with someone I know, the path that I take to get there might be different. When I said, you know, gotta get them lost, my first thing is I want them to understand the reality of the situation they're in, that they stand right now condemned before God. However I get there, I wanna get there and then present the gospel, if that makes sense. Anyway. So that's it. Sacrifice. Oh, were you done, Brother Greg? Sorry. I will sacrifice my last words for you to answer this man in the comments. Oh, which one? The one talking about the Trinity? Yeah. I gave him the boot already. Oh, man. I thought about playing tug-of-war, and then I thought, eh, I think I'll just ignore the left-field tug-of-war. You know what? I got no time for these people. I know what he's talking about. He's part of the oneness movement. He's probably a disciple of Geno Jennings, and they talk nonsense all day long, so I don't waste my time with them, because they're not there to participate or to talk or to have— No, he's the spirit that comes in with that. I feel it every time. Yeah, so I don't waste my time with it. I like I like being with people, even if they're not like minded completely, but they're cordial. I can deal with that. I can deal with that. But with that being said, I wanted to thank Greg for letting me do this with him and having you guys be so cool about it, because what I like about this this time has been different than the previous testimonies that I did with people is that more people on the panel got engaged with asking Greg questions. And I think that really goes a long way. And so I appreciate Greg taking the time and doing this. And I appreciate everybody here on the panel, participating in making it a fruitful time for us here, which I really believe it truly was. And on a mission, star tie, I don't get you guys too much. So I wanna point you guys out specifically and say, thank you for coming on and giving us your heartfelt word because you can definitely feel them. And I just thank everybody for it. I love this. I want to keep doing it. And I hope that we can continue to have fellowship. And believe me, as much as I love this, I would love it even more if we all broke off and we got 10 of these sessions going on across the internet or whatever it may be. But stay faithful in all the things that I know you guys all will. And may God bless you all and have a great, great night. God bless.