Peers, we're rolling. I'm assuming you can hear me. If anybody wants to take time to confirm that we have audio, that'd be good. Otherwise, this will be like a 1922 silent film without the cool organ in the background. Yeah, so anyway, welcome to the Household of Faith in Christ. If you're joining us online now, if you're watching us live or on Facebook, if you're watching this later, you're probably watching this either on sermonaudio.com or odyssey.com, possibly on Rumble, because I'm still actually using Rumble to park videos until I can get the Sermon Audio and Odyssey channels fully organized. But you It's hard for me to imagine a situation where you'll find a video from us added to the YouTube channel. What's there will stay unless YouTube takes more of our videos down, but I don't have time to put stuff up multiple times if they're gonna be taking it down, so anyway. Those who happened to capture the message at the start of the year, certainly people in the room did. We talked about taking the first 40 days of the year to kind of prepare for rain kind of idea. And those 40 days are up. And so I just wanted to acknowledge and remind us what that was about. It wasn't about treating it like Lent, where we got to give something up and self-flagellate ourselves, you know, flagellate? Flagellate, not flagellate. Flagellate. That's what Tyler's been doing. Yeah. You know, it wasn't about that. Although it was about that in the sense that maybe it could be about that. If, so the idea was to take like 40 days and think about we want God's blessing, right? We want to experience God's blessing and we want to be God's blessing to the world. What can we do during a focused part of time, the first 40 days of the year for example, to set in motion habits, practices, ideas, commitments, whatever, that would carry through beyond the first 40 days. And so in some cases that might have meant giving something up to make room in your life, but whatever you gave up to make room in your life might be the kind of thing that needs to stay given up so you can continue to have room in your life. But it's not about giving up. I think some of us got off track on that part of it. The idea is we want to pray expectantly for God to bring the rain, if you will, to bring his blessing. But at the same time, we don't want to just pray vacuously. We want to have this idea that he actually will respond, he will bring blessing, and we want to be able to act upon it when it comes. So are we in the word as regularly as we should be? Are we seeking his face in prayer the way that we should be? Are we coming together with fellow believers like we should be? Are we ministering to the world around us with the truth of the gospel that we should be? And I'm gonna tell you right now, I've had some reminders recently, maybe you guys have too. What we're doing here is not for everybody. Because not everybody wants the actual biblical truth. Too many people, they want the church to tell them what they want to hear, or they want them to affirm where they're coming at from things. They wanted to find a middle ground between God's actual truth and the ways of the world. Like there's got to be some middle way. The only way there's a middle way is if it happens to align with God's truth anyway, and then by definition, then it's not a middle way. You know what I mean? So we're about proclaiming the truth of God's Word, and if that's what you're interested in, then Household Faith in Christ is what you're about as well, and so I welcome you into that. Those who have been watching online, certainly those in the room know that we've been practicing our sharing of the gospel. And it occurred to me last week when Annie shared the gospel, and I made the point that, boy, that was a really good example of kind of the meat and potatoes of the gospel. You know, problem, solution. And I thought about it, and it made me realize that this young man here, Tyler, has the gospel that he can share that's even more meat and potatoes, more to the point than even what we heard last week. So let's see if Tyler Dean will be willing to... Hey Tyler Dean, what do we know about Jesus? Jesus healed me. I don't know if you could understand him, but Jesus healed me, is what Tyler said. Amen. That's the gospel. You know, I talked about the five-fold gospel, and those are the elements, it's the full-orbed gospel when we have all five elements. That's my understanding of how the best way to be equipped is to share the gospel in all different circumstances. But let's not confuse it. The gospel really comes down to one word, and that one word is Jesus. because Jesus translated means God saves. So we can say the gospel is the powerful name, the singular name of Jesus. That is the gospel. And if we want to expand and say, okay, what that means is two words, God saves. What Tyler just shared was basically God saved me. That's all he did. He just personalized it. That's the gospel personalized. So we're talking about the fivefold share in the gospel. I still believe in all this, but I don't want to overcomplicate this. The gospel is God saves. Now that connects to what we talked about the meat and potatoes, right? God saves from what? Like that means there must be something from which you need saving. So there's a problem, and Jesus is that solution. So that's the meat and potatoes. Problem, solution. And in response to the positives of that solution, then we want to live a life of gratitude, where we're magnifying the glory of God's name. People will turn to us and say, man, there's something different about how you're living your life. What's the reason for the hope you have? And we can share with them. And the reason we have hope is because we know that as great as this life can be sometimes, it certainly has its challenges. Well, there's going to be a life ahead in glory. No more challenges, nothing but the great aspects. And even those, like as great as your life might be in singular moments, I don't even think we have language for how much greater than even that it's going to be for eternity in glory with God. So that's what awaits us. That's why we have hope because we know we have a maker who built this for relationship with him. And yes, we screwed it up with our sin, but Christ hit the cross. makes all things right for those who are his people. And those who are his people can say, Jesus healed me. That is the gospel. So let's not overcomplicate it when we don't need to. The reason the four elements, the four aspects, the full-orb gospel is important is it gives us an entry point to sharing that simple truth of the gospel, profound yet simple truth of the gospel in all circumstances. So that's why I think it's helpful to know the five. But anyway, I just thought that moment of clarity would be good for us to hear. We have been working on the Lord's Prayer. And I thought we would change things up just a little bit this week. The reason we're doing a handout, it's not that the people in the room don't know the Lord's Prayer, but there are different English translations of the prayer. And this young lady next to me is memorizing, learning to memorize a particular translation. And we want to make sure that she's used to hearing the same translation. You can hold it too. Now what we're going to do is we're as a group going to do it together. She's going to hear us do it and then I thought we might do a little bit different. We'll see how much she could with some prompting and cuing perhaps begin to volunteer without just trying to read it off the page because she's not really reading off the page anyway. Right but I'm to be curious that that will give us a sense of where she is in her memorization and stuff. She tries to stay with us as a group. Yeah so are you ready to try this Nadia? You want to give it a shot? Okay. Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our debts as we also have forgiven our debtors. and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. I don't think we even have to have her do it. She was doing it with us, and I don't know if you could hear her that well. You wanna do it again? You wanna try to do it again? How much can you do? Say, our Father. Now you're getting shy and bashful, I know. So I was able to, she was pretty much with us on the, our father in heaven, hallowed be your name. And then she began to get a little bit iffy on the, your kingdom come, your will be done. And then she kind of trailed off on earth that isn't heaven and we lost her. So the first phrase, she pretty much has. And that second section, she kind of half has. So we've been doing this for like, what, maybe a month or two, something like that. So that's not too bad. She's got, you know, 20% of it down. When I remember to do it with her at home, she just goes, again, mommy, again, again. All right, well, that's good. That's good to keep doing it again and again, and then you'll have it. And this can be important, not that we want to do these things by rope, but this can really be an outline for how we pray. You can keep this model prayer in mind. It'll help you to pray in your prayer life as well. All right. Bible verses. We're going to have a prayer in just a moment, but first let's have a potpourri of Bible verses. So if you're watching online, you have to try to go there quickly. We have the advantage of having shared the Bible verses already, but if you want to try to get there quickly, we're going to read from 2 Samuel chapter 24 verses 11 through 14. And then we're going to hear Mark chapter one verses nine through 15. And then Philippians chapter two, verses 14 through 18, and Second Timothy chapter four, verses one through eight. And if you wanna get ready for the sermon, we'll be spending our time in Revelation chapter seven, so you'll wanna turn there, and spend a little bit of time in the sermon on Revelation, Romans nine. Not critically, you turn there, but you're definitely gonna wanna be able to follow along, I think, with Revelation chapter seven, so get yourself ready for that. But anyway, Second Samuel chapter 24, verses 11 to 14. When David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, go and speak to David. Thus the Lord says, I am offering you three things. Choose for yourself one of them, which I will do to you. So Gad came to David and told him and said to him, shall seven years of famine come to you in your land? Or will you flee three months before your foes while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days pestilence in your land? Now consider and see what the answer. I shall return to him who sent me. Then David said to Gad, I am in great distress. Let us now fall into the hand of the Lord, for his mercies are great, but do not let me fall into the hand of man. Now Mark chapter one, verses nine through 15. In those days, Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. Immediately coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opening. and the spirit like a dove descending upon him, and a voice came out of the heavens. You are my beloved son, and you I am well pleased. Immediately, the spirit impelled him to go out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness 40 days, being tempted by Satan. And he was with the wild beasts, and the angels were ministering to him. Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God and saying, the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel. Philippians chapter two, this is gonna be verses 14 to 18. Do all things without grumbling or disputing so that you will prove yourself to be blameless and innocent. Children of God above reproach in the midst of crooked and perverse generation among you, whom you appear as lights in the world, holding fast to the word of life so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain or toil in vain, but even if I am being poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice in service of your faith, I rejoice and share my joy with you all. You too, I urge you rejoice in the same way and share your joy with me. So far, we've had the idea that God will send judgment, famine, plague, things like that. Also, we can have temptations from the devil himself. But in spite of all of that, we are to aim to live blameless and pure lives because we are children of God. So that's kind of the thread we're on so far. And now we're up to 2 Timothy chapter four, verses one through eight. I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing in his kingdom, preach the word, be ready in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, and exhort with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith. Henceforth, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but also to all who have loved his appearance. Fighting the good fight, preaching the word, which we'll be doing in just a second. Before we do that, If you, we're gonna have a word of prayer, and then we'll have the sermon. Ray, would you mind opening us with a prayer? Opening's the right way to phrase it, but will you have our first moment of prayer during our time together? Dear Lord, we thank you for this day. We thank you for this gathering. We pray that the message be pleasing to your ears, oh Lord. We ask that you just be with us as we fellowship together. We're two or three together and we have to do tonight. In Jesus' name we give thanks and praise. Amen. Amen. So way back, In 1978, there was a popular song from the music group Foreigner that was the title track for that band's second album. It was called Double Vision. It was a pulsating rock tune with rather basic lyrics about getting high. So not the most edifying of messages. But when I was a kid, I didn't really think a whole lot about the meaning of the song. And so I liked it quite a lot. And therefore, I have heard this song in my life hundreds of times. And as a result, this song is stuck in my memory banks. And despite its very unholy message, it popped into my head when I was studying Revelation chapter 7. Because in this chapter, the Apostle John records for us two back-to-back visions, which are meant to be interpreted together as a unit. It's a double vision. Today we're going to examine the first half of this double vision, and we'll save the second half for next week, God willing. So here's what's written in the first eight verses of Revelation chapter 7. After this, I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea, do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God. Then I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. From the tribe of Judah, 12,000 were sealed. From the tribe of Reuben, 12,000. From the tribe of Gad, 12,000. From the tribe of Asher, 12,000. From the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000. From the tribe of Manasseh, 12,000. From the tribe of Simeon, 12,000. From the tribe of Levi, 12,000. From the tribe of Issachar, 12,000. From the tribe of Zebulon, 12,000. From the tribe of Joseph, 12,000. 12,000, and from the tribe of Benjamin, 12,000. This passage and the other verses we read just a few minutes ago are the word of God. You hear me say something along these lines pretty much every week, and I get concerned sometimes it just becomes rote. So I want to really emphasize the point. God's word is authoritative. It is the authoritative Word of God because it is breathed out by God. That's what we mean by it is inspired of God. And because it is God's Word, it is inerrant, infallible. It is the fully sufficient rule and guide for our faith and our life practice. Those with ears to hear, let them hear. So in our last message together, we covered the first four verses of this chapter. It's a chapter that brings us a pause between seal number six and seal number seven. And this interlude, it's injected here so that the servants of God can be sealed with God's spiritual protection. Verse 4 tells us that the number of those sealed is 144,000. And then in verses 5 through 8, this number begins to be detailed for us. And this is where we pick up our exposition of the text. So we're told in verse 4 that the 144,000 are from the tribes of Israel. And then the tribes are listed. That seems pretty straightforward. until we look more closely at the names of the 12 tribes. And we realize that this list corresponds to none of the ways that the tribes are listed in the Old Testament. There are 16 lists of the tribes of Israel in the Old Testament, and they're always shared by the birth order or by their allotment of land in Canaan. Well, this is not even close to how it's done here in Revelation. So let's go through the names one at a time. First up is Judah. Well, this is interesting. Judah was the fourth son of Jacob, as we see listed in places like Genesis chapter 35. Well, in Revelation, Judah is bumped up from fourth to first. This is a clear nod to Judah being the tribe of Messiah. And so the Lion of Judah takes the top slot. And now, next, we find the name Reuben. Reuben was biologically the firstborn. But he lost his place in the pole position, if you will, due to his act of incest, sleeping with his father's concubine Bilhah. So he loses his place of primacy on the list. Speaking of concubines, the next four names on this list in verses five and six, they illustrate the incorporation of outcasts being brought near the front of the line in God's economy. This is done by listing the names of the four sons of Jacob's two concubines, Bilhah and Zilpah. These sons being Gad, Asher, Naphtali, and Dan. Oops. Where's Dan? Dan's missing, having been replaced on the list by Manasseh. What's up with that? Well, as you might recall from Judges 18 and 1 Kings 12, the Danites led the northern kingdom of Israel into apostasy, into idolatry, with the result that Jewish tradition began to associate the tribe of Dan with Antichrist. In light of what we will read later on in Revelation chapters 21 and 22, there is no way a tribe associated with Antichrist, makes this list. So Dan is replaced by Manasseh. Now, this is interesting. Manasseh is one of the half-tribes of Joseph. When only one of the two half-tribes is mentioned in Scripture, it's usually Ephraim, not Manasseh. Why is Ephraim not on the list? Well, it seems there are two legitimate possibilities, and perhaps it's a combination of them both. The first is the fact that Ephraim in Judges chapters 17 and 18 was complicit with Dan in their apostasy. So maybe we have here some guilt by association. That keeps them off the list. An additional possibility is that Sometimes Ephraim is treated in the pages of Scripture as being identical with the full tribe of Joseph, as though the two names are interchangeable. For example, you can see this in Psalm 78, Ezekiel chapter 37. So with Joseph on this list in verse eight of chapter seven, it could be viewed as redundant. to mention Joseph there and Ephraim here in verse six. Now the list of 12 tribes continues in verses seven and eight with the remaining six children of Jacob's wives, Israel's wives, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulon, Joseph, and Benjamin. pushing these six sons born to wives rather than to concubines, pushing them to the end of the line in order to make room for the outsiders, those sons who were born to concubines, who we've already mentioned, so they can move up on the list. This is a hint at what is to come more explicitly in the last half of this chapter. This signifies the inclusion of outsiders. And from our context, we're outsiders. We're Gentiles. But we're among the bondservants of God who are mentioned in verse chapter 3 of this chapter. So now we could, I guess, maybe just move on to the last half of the chapter, starting with verse 9. But we have to wait for that until our next meeting, again, God willing, because we need to address some of the common confusions that surround the number 144,000. As you might know, there are some cults. They believe that precisely 144,000 people will experience the fullness of heaven. Now others, they say, might sneak into heaven as well, but they're only going to have second-class citizenship when they get there. But the oddities that we've just highlighted regarding the way that the 12 tribes are listed here in this seventh chapter of Revelation, it suggests strongly that this list of 144,000 is to be interpreted symbolically. Which shouldn't surprise us because that's the way we should really approach the entire book of the Apocalypse. And at the same time, the naming of the 12 tribes, it links us with our Old Testament Israelite heritage. Because remember, all of us non-Jewish people of God, we have been grafted into Israel. There's quite a bit to unpack with all of this, so most of our remaining time with this sermon is going to be devoted to these issues. It came up as a question last week, and so we're taking time to walk through all of this. So, someone approaching this text, they will immediately, Point to verse 4, which says that the number of those who were sealed is 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. There are no Gentiles in Israel, they say. However, what they say does not square with the Bible. The Apostle Paul teaches us in Galatians 3.28 that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. And in Ephesians 2. Remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth, remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel, and foreigners to the covenants of the promise. But now, In Christ Jesus, you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God's people and also members of his household. In him, the whole building is joined together. And in him, you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his spirit. And it's not just Paul alone who emphasizes this. James opens his letter to the church. It's a letter to the church, a church with people of both Jewish and Gentile background. He opens this letter by addressing, quote, the 12 tribes of the diaspora. The 12 tribes and the church are one and the same. according to James. And it's not as if this ingrafting began in the New Testament. We see it in the Old Testament. Caleb, one of the great heroes of Judah, was a Kenizzite, but he's counted among the Israelites. Rahab, the prostitute, was a Canaanite, but became an Israelite. Ruth famously is a Moabite, also an Israelite. Uriah, the husband of Bathsheba, was a Hittite, but he fought as an Israelite. And the list continues. So with that point having been made, let's move to another common thought about the 144,000. And that is that it's promising that all Jews will be saved in the end. Now that might be possibly an argument to have in different portions of Scripture, but right here in chapter 7 of Revelation, honestly, that idea being imported here, I would see that as an interpolation. The text simply does not say this. Now, of course, the text doesn't not say this. So maybe it does mean this if we want it to. But I would suggest this is only if we would ignore other scripture passages. For example, Isaiah chapter 10, verses 21 and 22, which says, a remnant will return. A remnant of Jacob will return to the mighty God. Though your people be like the sand of the sea, Israel, only a remnant will return. And St. Paul quotes from this passage in Isaiah in Romans chapter 9. And it's a chapter where he also writes, the Apostle Paul does, What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath, prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory? Even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles. As he says in Hosea, I will call them my people who are not my people. and will call her my loved one, who is not my loved one. What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it? A righteousness that is by faith? But that the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal? Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith. but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. And this all helps to make sense of what's written in Romans chapter 9, verses 6 through 8. It is not as though God's word had failed, for not all who are descended from Israel are Israel, nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. Well, okay then, since this is not who the 144,000 are, Who are these 144,000 sealed bond servants of God? And what does the imagery of the 144,000 represent? Well, let's begin with the number itself. 144,000, that's 12 squared times 1,000. 12 squared, that means 12 times 12. 12 multiplied 12 times equals 144. Twelve is a complete and perfect number in biblical usage. Do you recall from our previous sermons the importance of the number four, particularly in the Book of Revelation, but throughout Scripture? Our four is a number representative of creation. And we have also talked about the number three a little bit, and how this helps us to better understand some of the symbolism in the Book of Revelation. Well, the number three, that's going to connect our thoughts almost immediately, I would think, to the Godhead, our triune God. Three persons, one God. We'll now do some math. 4 plus 3 gives us 7. We have the number for holiness here, the number of creation, the number of deity. It's complete perfection that's represented. We know the importance of the number 7 in the Book of Revelation. We've touched on that a whole bunch of times. And then 4 times 3, 4 multiplied by 3, that gives us 12. which turns out is the number of the Old Testament tribes, also the number of New Testament disciples. So the number 12 is a number that embraces and includes everything. It's the number for God's people, his complete church. This is spiritual Israel. And this is pictured again, but in a different way, in Revelation chapter 21, where we're going to read that the four walls of the new heavenly Jerusalem measure 144 cubits each, with mention of 12 angels and 12 foundations inscribed with the names of the 12 apostles, and the 12 gates inscribed with the names of the 12 tribes. Revelation, with this imagery later in the book, It brings us a view, in those later chapters, of the Church triumphant. It's a picture of our reality following Christ's second coming. But that's still to come in Revelation. For now, what we have here pictured in the first half of Revelation, chapter 7, is the Church militant. We're still on earth fighting the good fight. We are the Lord's army. And so this chapter's symbolism, it reminds us of King David organizing his ancient army in 1 Chronicles chapter 27, where we see that David arranged his troops into 12 equal divisions. In his case, it was divisions of 24,000, which is 12,000 doubled. Now, understanding the importance of the numerical symbols in Revelation, it is so very helpful at arriving to help us get to the place that John is driving. We've also discussed in the recent past the way that the number 1,000 is used in the Bible. In today's age, we want to emphasize a really huge number, and we might say billions, or trillions, or zillions. But when the ancient Jews wanted to emphasize a really big, huge number, they would say, thousands. They didn't have in their vocabulary words going higher than that. And it's just like when we use the word million today, we might mean possibly exactly one million. Or we might mean the word to be understood as just a large and uncertain, not definitely fixed number. Like we call somebody a millionaire. By that we don't typically mean that they have precisely to the penny one million dollars, right? We typically mean that they have lots and lots and lots of dollars, more than a million dollars, actually. Well, that's what's being said here in Revelation chapter 7. There are 144,000. As in there are 144 million, or 144 billion, 144 zillion. It's not an exact count. This is not a census of God's people. It is a gigantic number that represents the exhaustive and perfect completion of God's chosen and elect people on earth. The fact that the numbering of the tribes is perfectly balanced, 12,000 from each one, is further indication that what we see here is a symbolic number for the fullness of God's people that we see walking around the planet with us. And we will see this imagery again in Revelation chapters 9 and 14 with God's people sealed with the spiritual protection of God. And they will be referred to there as the 144,000. Each of us, followers of Christ, Each of the innumerable 144,000 is known individually by God. And no one except God can truly, accurately, precisely count their number, but God can. God knows. He knows us individually, each and every one. He spiritually protects us. Take comfort in this. Recall Matthew chapter 10, verses 29, 31. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your father's care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid. You are worth more than many sparrows. And this is a promise, not merely to those who are biologically descended from the loins of Jacob. It is also for those who are adopted into the family. As John will write at the start of Revelation chapter 11, I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, go and measure the temple of God and the altar with its worshipers, but exclude the outer court. Do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles." See, understand? Don't try to measure it. It's too big. You can't measure it. It's immense. This helps us further understand that there is room made for you, the Gentile believer. You're trusting in the promise made to Abraham. And as a follower of Jesus Christ, you are accounted righteous and saved by faith. And the Messiah, he is the aforementioned lion of Judah. He's our fierce lion. And the lion, he claims both the Jews and the Gentiles within his pride. You're safe within his promise. because he rules the universe forever. Genesis chapter 49 says, the scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he to whom it belongs shall come, and the obedience of the nations shall be his. When we exposit the last half of the chapter next week, we are going to read about a great multitude. It pictures all of the saints through all of time, past, present, and future. And so it's a wide-angle lens peering at God's people. compared to the narrower focus that we're given here in the first half of the chapter. As we're going to understand even better following next week's gathering, again, God willing, the 144,000 number, it represents the church on earth, which is why symbolically smaller than the great multitude, which represents the church of heaven and earth. But these are complementary pictures. They're both depicting the lamb's protection of his sheep, but from two different perspectives. So the thing for us all to consider, for you to consider, are you among the sheep? Is the Son of God your protector? Are you a member of our warrior king's earthly army? Well, if so, then get into the fight, man. There is a spiritual war being waged, in case you haven't noticed. And the evidence that you are one of the Sealed Foot Soldiers is that you are engaged in spiritual battle. Let's make sure we're all engaged, resting on the promise of victory and the promise of spiritual protection. Let's pray. Father, you are so amazing and mighty. We acknowledge you with some shame that we too often might have a tendency to neglect how powerful and wondrous you are. We thank you and praise your name that you have called to yourself a people to join in the fight of spiritual warfare, and that we have the promise from you of provision and protection, that you love your children, both the Old Covenant and New Covenant children, you love them as your family, as your co-heirs, that we are all brothers and sisters bound together in unity with you. It's a beautiful and totally undeserved thing that you've done for us and in us and through us. I ask you to give us courage. and discernment as we engage the spiritual enemy that's around us, that we would not fall prey to the enemy's evil devices. And we know with certainty that we won't, because you protect us, that we will persevere, that we will join you forever in glory. bound together with one another and with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. It's in his name we pray. Amen. I guess I'll begin by turning to Annie and ask if that helped address some of your questions from last week. Yeah, I would say just a little bit. And I'm assuming the quote unquote 144,000 is for all time, for eternity, meaning from the foundation of the world to the second coming. Yeah. To put a point of clarity on that, It's a representation of God's church on earth at each moment throughout history and time. Because this is a battle regiment, right? There's a line, there's these squads, or whatever terminology you wanna put on that, these legions of troops or whatever, and they're organized in spiritual battle. And so, while the number is huge, it does seem that there's some limiting cap on it. The 144,000 is a limiting factor. It's not a completely innumerable, uncountable kind of a number idea, which we're gonna see in the last half of this chapter, where it's just multitudes and multitudes, and there's not a number placed on that. So if what you mean is this is a number that represents God's people through all of time, I would say yes at each moment throughout time. That's what's pictured here. This is about the church militant. This is the church on earth right now fighting the good fight for the kingdom of God. But those who have already died ahead of us are in heaven now. they're part of the multitude, if you will, in the imagery of the vision. They would be counted among the multitude that we're gonna see described in the last half of this chapter. They were part of the 144,000, but they finished their race, and so they're not in need of the spiritual protection that I was talking about, because they've already finished their race. Does that help? Yeah, they were already in the presence of God. Yeah, they're... They're there. They don't need that seal because they're... They are still sealed, but it's not... Yeah, they don't need the... Right. They don't need to rest on the assurance that God's got them covered because they're already there in His presence. They know. Now, they are yearning for justice. Sure. And they're looking... But they're not attacked by their flesh anymore, by their sin nature anymore, by the devil anymore. Right. Okay, gotcha. And most famously, the cult that gets most thought of in terms of the 144,000 will be Jehovah's Witnesses. But they're not alone. That's why I said there are cults, because there are others, too, that have very similar ideas about it being a precise and exact number, like the old Worldwide Church of God, for example, which I'm not sure if they still... I think they exist as a shell of their former selves. They hold that view. So there are some... some pockets of people who want to say, no, it's exactly 144,000 to the number. It's not 144,001. It's not 133,999. It's a precise number. And they think of it as from the beginning of time to whenever. Yeah, they would say it's those who have the fullness of the blessing of God throughout all of history and time. they would accuse somebody like me who takes the approach that I just take to, oh, you're not taking it literally. I mean, it says 144,000. It's literally 144,000. And the only retort, really, that I could have, and it's the retort, I'm the one who's taking, people who like me, the approach that I'm taking, are the ones that are taking the text literally. because taking it literally, I mean, it's right in the root of the word, it has to do with literature. Literarily, I'm taking it for what the text means. How did the author intend it to be understood? And this is not an Excel spreadsheet. This is a highly symbolic, highly artistic, all this apocalyptic kind of language and the vision idea. This is not to be understood the same way we would understand some of the narratives in, you know, First and Second Kings or something like that, where it's outlining what happened in history. This is different. So in the confines of the genre, what is John communicating here? And there's just no way that it makes any sense that this incredibly symbolic book would, in one or two instances, would say, oh, but right here, we're gonna be precisely mathematically exact. That's not what's happening. And there are cues, this is what I was getting into in the message, there are cues that that's what's going on because the way the list is presented. I mean, it's not based in birth order. It's not based on the geographic placement of the, it's like completely other and different, like why? That's not like John as he's writing down the names and he forgot the order. There's a purpose. He wrote this order for a reason. What are the ideas in his head he's trying to convey? And I don't think anybody really is gonna push back on the idea that Judah moves to the top because of Christ. The Lion of Judah is in the preeminent first slot position because it's the Lion of Judah. It's the tribe of Judah. They are the eschatological primary name. Christ is at the top. So that makes sense. So we can understand that. So right there, that's a symbolic, there's a symbolic meaning behind Judah being first. Huh, I wonder if there are symbolic meanings to the rest. And you start to look for what the commonalities are, what makes sense. And it is rather striking that the concubine sons are moved up and that the, sons of wives are moved down as groups. That's rather interesting. And then you've got certain names missing or one name added at the expense of another name with Manasseh instead of Ephraim. It's like, what's going on? Why is all that? And you start to connect the dots. Well, none of that makes sense from a woodenly what would be typically thought of as a literal interpretation, a wooden interpretation. It just doesn't lend itself to that. And I thought it was interesting with the tribe of Dan and then losing their quote-unquote place. And I don't know if this is true or not. Some people think just because you are of Jewish faith, that means that you're automatically going to heaven. just like just because you're the tribe of Dan doesn't mean you're automatically counted in you can lose that if you are falling away from Yeah, and not to press the point too far, and I don't think you're doing this, but just to clarify, it's not like everybody from the tribe of Dan is exiled from the hope of glory. No, no, no, no. It's representative of... Again, we have to understand, this is symbolic, and so the point is being made, look, Dan was advocating for Antichrist. Right. So anyone who... Was leading God's people into apostasy and idolatry, and so... to represent the heinousness of what all that means. We're leaving them off this list. That doesn't mean that people who are biologically descended from the tribe of Dan can't be in. Well, isn't that what Ephraim was? Like, isn't Ephraim used to symbolize the Northern Kingdom, which was like the apostate kingdom, if we go back to the Old Testament? Yeah, that's why the book of Isaiah uses Ephraim to speak for the Northern Kingdom. Yeah, and that's, if you think about it in those terms, the tribes that have arguably the most checkered pasts would be Dan and Ephraim, right? They're the ones that are held responsible for a lot of problems. Hmm. If you look at the end of Judges, Benjamin really gets wiped out. Yeah, I don't know. Interesting question, I don't have one. Yeah, he's still at the Lascaux list, so I mean, and he just barely made it. He's mentioned Lascaux, but also, you know, because of birth order. Yeah, to be honest, I haven't pondered what to do with that question, so that's an interesting, they're catching me afresh with that one, so I don't know. Interesting question. But ultimately, Benjamin was surrounded by Judah, right, in their land distribution? Surrounded by. Were they completely encircled? Landless? I don't know if they're completely embedded in. No, I'm thinking Simeon. Benjamin was where Jerusalem was. The point with something like this, and I definitely tried to draw attention to it, but I'm gonna draw attention to it again now, because we can kind of, if we're not careful, we can get lost in some minutia, we can get kind of bogged down in the weeds a little bit and try to spend so much time trying to understand with a lot of specificity, precisely what some of these images mean. And I don't want us to lose the main point here, and that is God's people are to be of a military mindset. We're engaged in spiritual warfare. We're in the fight. And so we are to engage in battle. in spiritual war, knowing that we're protected by the line of Judah, that he protects those who are his. And that protection doesn't merely extend to those who are within the biological bloodlines. of Jacob, but all those who are adopted into the family as well, they're protected too. So we can have confidence that we are kept safe spiritually by, and I keep emphasizing spiritually, because we do face challenges, suffering, persecution perhaps even. We face those sorts of things in the physical, but he protects those who are his spiritually, and that promise of protection applies not just to bloodlines, but to all who are the people of God. And so we should have a confidence and security in that. And I feel like that's important to emphasize these days. I feel like a lot of us, you know, we got caught, you know, kind of knocked sideways just a little bit. And we're like, oh, am I really being protected? Yes, you are. So remind yourself of God's promise, rest in that promise, trust in that promise, take God at his word, don't doubt his word and say, well, his promise doesn't apply to me. Well, if you're one of his children, yes it does. And if you're not actually spiritually protected, then that would be evidence that you're maybe not his child. So, something to think about. Now, I remember at one point being taught that the Antichrist would come from the tribe of Dan, like would be descended from the tribe of Dan. Are there any Old Testament figures that were from Dan? That sat out. Dan, that kind of disappears a little bit from scripture a little bit. There's talk of the lost child of Dan. There's a lot of people that talk about like there's a serpentine aspect to Dan again that would connect to the Antichrist connection and that they have weaved their way geographically through parts of history. There are some people that believe that the crown of England was actually rooted in the tribe of Dan somehow. So if you believe that, The crown of England represents Antichrist. You could try to make that connection, but boy, I think you start to get into some really dangerous... You have to do a lot of interpolating, a lot of what I would argue is eisegesis to make that work. I'm not sure I'm persuaded. I'm not fully done studying that sort of question. Yeah, because I thought the bad kings of Israel were like from Reuben or Manasseh or something like that. Like I didn't think they were from Dan or Ephraim. With the rarest of exceptions, all the kings are bad. With the rarest of exceptions. Of Israel, yeah. Of Israel, they're all bad. Yeah, they maybe had one that was not that bad. But even in Judah, most of those are really bad. So, I don't think... I don't know. I mean, it could be an interesting study to make a connection of the names and the worst kings of which tribes they came from and all that sort of stuff. That could be instructive. I haven't taken the time to... I feel like I remember reading that, but I don't... I thought that some of them were from Reuben, but I don't know who... Well, I will say, like I said, if you look at some of the Jewish tradition and some of the Midrash and things like that, I think you're going to find some connection and association of Dan with Antichrist within the tradition. So maybe you read something that was talking about the tradition more than talking about scripture? No, it was taught by someone that believed in a certain... apocalypse school of thought that the Antichrist would have to come out of a tribe of Dan. Well, how would we know that? People have so intermarried and crossed paths. At this point, can you really trace the bloodline that far back? I mean, we don't know. I think of myself, and the message was articulating things in such a way that, you know, we are Gentiles. But who's to say? All or some of us might actually have Jacob's blood in our line somewhere. We don't know. How could we know, well, I mean, maybe, I don't think I can trust those spit tests that you send away for. Find out, can they take you back to Jacob, I doubt it. Yeah, I don't know if they would go far enough back accurately enough. I'm sure they could give you information for a couple generations. Oh, I'm not doing that. No one's getting my DNA into a database like that. Exactly. Well, Angela's being quiet tonight. I mean, is it because you're way over there, or you're thinking? I just have a different approach to the book of Revelation, and I've already expressed it, so I just kind of know. That's what he thinks. You're welcome. Yeah, I just have a different approach. I just, yeah. I've already expressed it, so. Okay. In terms of Antichrist, you mean? Because that's something that you brought up a few weeks ago, is that what you mean? Well, yeah, um... Well, I mean, yeah, what was said back then, too, but I just... You know, the way you approach it really determines how... It really affects how you see the whole thing, you know? It profoundly affects it. Yeah, there's like four different ways to approach it. Yeah. There's good arguments for both sides. I do think it's literal. I think a symbol symbolizes a literal thing. Like the golden arches symbolize hamburgers. You go to the golden arches, you're going to get a real hamburger. I think the symbols symbolize a literal thing. Sure, and I agree with that. I don't want to give the impression that I'm not saying that it's not real. That number 144,000, it represents truly, really the people of God. I can share what I think if you really want to know, otherwise I'll just let it go. I don't want to force it, but I'm curious. I'm not uncomfortable with it. I don't want to seem arbitrary or argumentative or something. That's one of the reasons we have the discussions, people have different thoughts. Is it helpful to hear a different perspective or is it agitating? It's not agitating, it just explains why they have a different perspective. If you take, predicated on the premise that the church is raptured prior to the seal and the vile judgments and all that, If that's your premise, then that takes you down a road where what you have left are the apostate church, which is most of the church, as the Revelation chapter three reveals most of the church to be. They're messed up. It's only two churches that are true to the Lord out of the seven. So that would leave you with the apostate church and unbelievers basically left on the earth. So all this time that we're having these discussions now about the rapture, most people don't believe it. Don't believe that there's going to be a rapture. I'm not talking about the people who believe that it'll happen at a different time. I'm talking about most people don't believe it, period. So there will be many people who after, if it happens the way that I think it's going to happen, then Many people who didn't believe it will go, oh no, that's what happened. And a lot of those people just might be Jewish. And the Jewish people, the Lord has struggled with the Jewish people for a while, with the Messiah and that sort of thing. But it was always the Jewish people that was supposed to spread the gospel. They initially did it, right, with Paul. They were God's chosen people, his sheep. If you believe that, the way I'm saying it now, then the 144,000 would be Jewish believers who actually do go and evangelize. They just go to the four corners, and the final fulfillment of the Lord's command to go to the four corners of the earth and evangelize the earth would be fulfilled by the 144,000 Jews that are believers. that will come to Christ. It will take, you know, in Paul's letter, one of his letters, he says there's a partial hardening to the Jews until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. I believe that the hardening of the Jews will be softened. Just imagine how softened the sudden disappearance of all these millions of people would be to people who didn't believe, who people, you know, the people who are blowing that off is nonsense. I mean, that would be such, that would be a shock unlike any human being has ever experienced. If people really did just, we're sitting here and then people, three of us just disappear. We're all believers, but you know what I'm saying? That would freak people out. You know what I'm saying? That would freak people. And so I think it's going to, there's such a hardness there. that for some people is going to take something that extreme. Some of the things that you've read or heard, different teachings and that sort of thing, how have you heard, how have those people helped to articulate an understanding of the ordering of the twelve names of the tribes? I haven't really looked into that as a topic. But I do think you're... I've heard a little bit here and there. I did hear something about the Jews saying Dan was the fulfillment of a prophecy that I think it was... Moses gave about something about being in a serpent or something. There's something negative in the book of Genesis. You know, I'm talking about Troy When it no, it was Abraham it was make this Abraham maybe it was either Abraham or Moses. I'm sorry, but They say something about Dan, yeah, biting at the serpent, he bites at the horse's hooves or something like that. Yeah, there's definitely like a serpentine connection with Dan, which is why people think that they've kind of weaved their way through history up into Europe would be a lot of the arguments, that sort of thing. So the explanation you gave about Dan not being present in this book, that resonated with me. Like, yeah, there's still something negative about that. Something wasn't quite right about you. Dan shall judge his people as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a horned snake in the path. that bites the horse's heel, so that the rider falls backwards. For your salvation, I wait, O Lord. Yeah, so it's things like that, like, you know, Dan gets associated with, you know, with Antichrist, which is why I think symbolically Dan is left off the list. Also, when you give him your explanation about the missing tribes, you know, it just, The scripture that came to me was, who will be last will be first, who will be first will be last, as the Lord said. So there's, you know, I believe there's all kinds of applications for that, but this could be just another example of, you know, who was least is now Promoted who was most is the absolutely and actually connects with one of the points I didn't say it that way but that's one of the points about the outsiders coming in they were like the Gentiles the pagan nation surrounding Israel rather than the last right, but then they're brought in which is again, I think I mean Anybody who has spent time reading the Old Testament and gets used to the pattern of the way the names are shared, when you read the names shared in Revelation, it's like, wait a minute, this doesn't fit any pattern I'm used to seeing. And then you check yourself, like, are the names given in this order anywhere else? So it's like, okay, John, he would have known the ordering of the names as well as anybody, and yet he purposely puts them in a different order, so he's got to have a reason. And so that's just like, okay, and that reason I think helps to unlock what the primary thrust of the passage is. And I don't know how it necessarily hinges on somebody's view of there being a, you know, a pre-trib or mid-trib or post-trib rapture or not. I agree. And I don't think it hinges on that. Because I don't think anybody that I'm familiar with, that's not one of the cults I've alluded to, would make the argument that even post-rapture, for those that would hold to a rapture view, that it would be precisely 144,000. There are people that are expecting there to be precisely 144,000 conversions, and not more, not less. Well, no, not 144,000 conversions, 144,000 evangelists. But if it was post-rapture, wouldn't they also need to be conversions then? No, what I'm saying is, what I think is going to happen is there will be a rapture church, And that will freak out a lot of people. It'll probably be a major tool God will be able to use to reach 144,000 Jews who will become believers, whom God will use to evangelize. But you're saying there'll be more conversions. Right. The 144,000. Right. Yes. Yes. They will evangelize. That's why you have all these people under the throne that's been martyred. They're saying, when are you going to ever? Those 144,000. Jewish evangelists would have helped to bring that harvest in the rest of the rice There's a final harvest coming as a result of the Great Tribulation We all know that in our personal lives is it unless we were raised in the church some kind of tribulation brought us to the Lord right and this is gonna be the final tribulation for Right for the for the whole world that as a whole has rejected the Messiah and But this event will be so massive and so shocking that God will be able to use it to bring in the final harvest before Messiah comes back and sets up his thousand year reign. I think it's interesting. I think that even the way that I was talking about it earlier and the way I think about it, all followers of Christ should evangelize and in that sense we're all evangelists. Some people have more gifting and that sort of thing. But the text itself in Revelation, when it's talking about the 144,000, it doesn't use the word evangelists, right? So evangelists is part of what's incorporated in the body of Christ, but the words there are the bondservant, right? The slaves of Christ, the possession of Christ, those who belong to, are owned by Christ, that are His servants. which would include evangelism, but it wouldn't merely be 144,000 evangelists. It feels like that's too narrow of an understanding. These are slaves of Christ. I understand what you're saying, but I think the point of this text is to just highlight the fact that there would be 144,000 Jewish evangelists. I'm not precluding other people being evangelists, but again, Israel being God's firstborn, they should have been from the get-go. Well, from the get-go, they were the first believers. I want to say that. But even now, who is mostly evangelizing? It's Gentiles. Well, God's initial plan was for that to be Jews. But by and large, by far, it's Gentiles. What I'm saying is, here, what this seems to picture, is a large number of Jews who will go out and evangelize. In other words, they will finally... My concern, though, is it's such a narrow application of bondservant. But I'm not saying these... Because the text doesn't say evangelist, so that makes me nervous to choose just that out. It's synonymous, isn't it? No, they're not. I mean, a bondservant, a bonds... I mean, you could use believer instead of bondservant. You could use... I mean, I'm just saying, They have the seal of God on their heads to do what? To go out and to evangelize. And so I just think that this is just, God is just saying in the end, in the very end of days, there's going to be a lot of Jewish people who will finally do what Paul and my disciples are trying to get most Jews to do. I think that's all this is really saying. And it's not precluding other people from doing it. I'm just saying, I just think this is picturing them, it's focusing on them, so call back. And I guess, for something that you want to think about, you know, we can converse about this later or whatever, but again... It's fascinating to hear all these different... Because of the way the names are listed, I'm open to the possibility of saying, you know what, your explanation of why the names are in the order they're in is misguided. Here's how we should understand that. But absent that, it seems like the text is telling us, look, these are out of order for a reason. They're pointing to those who are outsiders who shouldn't be first. They were the last. Well, in a broader biblical context, who are the outsiders, the last who are made first, it would be the Gentiles. And that's why I think the text itself is telling us this is including Jews, but it's not merely Jews, because John, it seems to me, has gone out of his way to illustrate that it's not. Otherwise, it seems he could have just listed, he could have maybe moved Judah first, because of Christ, and then had the rest be in birth order, or had the rest be in the order we're used to seeing. And he doesn't do that, and it begs the question, it's a question that almost insists for an answer. And I feel like the, you know, I'm pretty, I'm, as you can tell, I preached it. I'm persuaded that's telling us, look, this isn't talking about just the Jews, particularly in light of other passages in the Bible, that this is a oneness of God. I feel like it's pretty persuasive. But if somebody has a different way of understanding the ordering, that could be an important mind changer for me. But I'm just not... Yeah, I haven't studied the ordering or the tribes. I will admit, I have not studied that. But with my present understanding, I don't see what we're saying as being mutually exclusive. Right. No, yeah, there's tremendous overlap. Right. I just see the 144. I just see the Bible calling out 12,000 Jewish people from this Yeah, I'm not going to I don't mean to suggest that the text wouldn't allow at some level for that understanding, but I don't think the text requires or demands that of us, and I'm not really fully persuaded it even lends us to have to go in that direction, but certainly We could say, well, is it possible? Well, almost anything is possible, right? And I'm not meaning to dismiss it as simply as that, but is it possible? Yeah, I guess it's possible, but I don't know that that's... I don't know that it's easy to try to make the case that that's what this passage is trying to tell us. That's, I mean, just to help give some insight of why I have approached the text the way that I did and the way I preached it the way that I did. I try and, what I wrestle with is, because there's obviously more than even these two different thoughts of what revelation is getting to, meaning, whatever. And the other camps, for lack of a better word, are also filled with the Holy Spirit. So for me, it's fascinating, because I'm here going, I think God's like, yeah, my ways are higher than yours. It doesn't matter as long as I'm the center of it and I'm going to get glory. I don't know, I just think it's fascinating. I think because I don't feel like I have to rest in any one thing in order to be saved. And I'm not saying either one of you are saying that. But it's not like your belief in your salvation. It's not a salvation question at all. It's not essential to being saved. It's not essential to being saved understanding. Right. And even, I guess for me, I don't even feel like I have to figure it out to be settled. Like in just how I live my life. And so that, and I'm not saying either one of you are, but I have encountered people who are very, you get this wrong, very, you know, it almost becomes a salvation. They make it central to a salvation question. And I'm like, why are you wrestling? You don't need to wrestle that hard. Yeah. Which I think this is actually very healthy, I think, for anyone watching to see that there can be more than one school of thought and unity in Christ. Yes. Unity does not mean uniformity. Yes. No two people think exactly the same on every point in life. That's kind of creepy. Not even husbands and wives. Right. So, it's not a family question. No, it's really not. It's just a, you know... Now, obviously, somebody is inaccurate. And we will know one day who, you know, that's part of what... If we're all in it. That's part, exactly. We know in part. Y'all just fight. And then we don't know in full. And then we will know fully. And so we will all get to the point where we will be taught. And then you get bragging rights. We will know who got it right. But yeah, right now, I mean, the only thing, what matters now is believing in Jesus Christ. the virgin born, sinless son of God, who lived a sinless life, who died a sacrificial death, who rose on the third day, who's the way, the truth, and the life, the door, the only door, and trusting in what he did, and not in yourself, and trusting in his goodness, and not in your own, and believing that he is your substitutionary righteousness, because you have none of your own, and just trusting in that with everything you've got and holding fast to that faith and saying, Jesus, you're the perfection that I need before the Father. And you're the reason why I'm going to make it. And as long as you believe that, these other ancillary questions, which are important. I don't want to say that they're unimportant. but they're not crucial to being saved, they're not crucial to being in the family of God. So, yeah, there can be differences of opinion. We'll see what, I mean, the pre-rapture, somebody's right, we'll find out. One day we'll find out. The 144,000, somebody's right, one day we'll find out. Yeah, and just to add a point of clarity on all that, so nobody who's listening in on this might possibly misunderstand, what Angela just articulated is all true, but it's not merely about intellectual assent. It's not just, oh, I know that fact to be true. I mean, that's true of the devil himself. He knows the facts. So it's not just about believing in Christ and believing that these things happen, but it's believing Him. It's taking Him at His word. And so as we begin to draw to a close, one of the things that is involved in taking Him at His word is we are in battle. We are soldiers in the war. We are to put on the full armor of God and we are to engage in battle. and to do so with joy-filled hearts, with hope for a glorious future, and fight the good fight, and do it with firmness and conviction while at the same time finding ways to be biblically gentle and self-controlled and kind. imbued with love, but announcing the judgment of God and all those sorts of things, knowing that if you're truly His, if you're taking Him at His word, trusting the word at His word, that you are spiritually protected. So that should give you a confidence, an assurance that you can engage in the fight fearlessly. But it's not enough to just say, oh yeah, I believe in Jesus, He's my Lord and Savior, and He's my security blanket, and I just, I love spending time with the Lord. But you're never actually in the fight. You're not taking that as word, because he's telling you, hey, my word tells you, get in the fight. Because we are in a fight. And I don't know that we could feel that quite as easily a few years ago. No, we're under judgment. We can feel the reality of that now more so. And boy, as I say that, I'm concerned. How might we feel it even more so in another year or two or three? Who's to say? That's when I have to go, Jesse. So you must, must, must engage. Be engaged, please. All right, well, unless anybody else wants to add, it's been about an hour and a half, so we'll, we draw our online portion. I just want to say, I actually appreciate the perspectives as I formulate my own, and I kind of vacillate between all of them sometimes, and so it's, for me, it's very helpful. Form a whole new sixth camp? It's very helpful. It's very helpful to hear the different perspectives and to know that I can, you know, one day think one thing, another day think the other thing, and still have eternity with Christ. And so that's where I'm like, phew. Glad I don't have to get it right. Right. It was not that far. We had to get everything right. We'd all be screwed. None of us would get there. Well, then it would be works, right? It would be works-based. It would be on our own understanding. Words and intellectual, oh, oh, oh no. Yeah, so anyway, so thank you for sharing everything, everybody. Well, we had predetermined that Annie was gonna wrap us up with prayer, so we'll do that now. Dear Lord, we thank you for this time that we were given to get together and worship you and get into your word and learn from each other. We pray that we will all be given your guidance and shown how we are meant to be engaged in this fight for your kingdom. And we pray that each and every one of us will do it to the best of our abilities, wholeheartedly, all in for Christ. In Christ's name we pray, Amen. The authority for what our conviction needs to rest on is the Word of God. That is the authority as you're seeking answers, how to understand these sorts of things. Make sure you're arguing from the Word, about the Word, understanding the Word, living the Word. Make your case from the Word and you'll be much, much closer to exactly how you should be understanding it if you do that. Till next week, God bless.