The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at calm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. If, as usual, you want to give me a call, it is easy to do. Just dial 877-207-2276. Sorry about that. I had a little sniffle. And I just sneezed right before the show. I had two really big sneezes. So sometimes when you sneeze, you've got to take a little bit of a break here. Oh, man. There we go. All right. So hey, look, if you want to give me a call, like I said, 877-207-2276. You can also email me at info at CARM.org, info at CARM.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. Give me an email there, put the subject line, radio comment, radio question. and one of those so we can get in there. I just went through some of my emails. I spent about a half hour a day going through and I deleted about a thousand. I just get so inundated with emails that there's just no possible way for me to be able to keep up with them. And we even have a team that does the info at karm.org email setup. And, you know, I'm just buried, which is, you know, that's just what it is. Just a lot of emails, a lot of stuff. And that's okay. All right. So Saturday, I don't know if any of you participated, watched, viewed, whatever it is. I was in, I spoke on the priesthood. It's the priesthood of the Eastern Orthodox Church Biblical. I did that on Saturday, spoke for about 40 minutes or so. And along with Eddie Delcor, Tony Costa, Anthony Rogers, they were there. And it was great, it was a good discussion, a good time, a good, It was great, you know. These guys are good. They're really knowledgeable. And I may, just may, be going out to the East Coast to speak at another conference for administrative Muslims. And that may, they want me to come out in August. And so I'm hoping I'll be able to do that. And we don't know yet, because it might have a conflict of schedule, a schedule conflict. But if I do that, if I do end up going out there, then maybe I can set it up so I'll be there an extra few days and come see people at churches and things like that if they want. So, you know, this stuff. And if you're interested in me speaking at a church out there in August, I know we haven't got the date settled yet, just let me know. You can email me at info at carm.org. Info at carm.org. And I want to hear from you. Give me a call. I think that is it. So why don't we just do this? Let's get to Jermaine. Hey, Jermaine, welcome back, buddy. You're on the air, man. Hey, Matt. Well, you know, today I had I'd heard about the news that broke about Robert Morris at the ministry out there in Texas. And, um, you know, I'm not trying to pile on or anything, but it just, it disappoints me that so many people may have known about the alleged crimes. The issue I had is I didn't know what happened. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I just assumed you, but basically, um, what a short version is. It looks like, I guess, uh, when he was in his twenties, a young lady may have been, groomed and something inappropriately sexually happened. Apparently it was divulged to certain members of his church, and I guess it was kind of brushed over as inappropriate contact, but some, I guess, paperwork came out to show it was a little bit more comprehensive than what was disclosed. The issue I was having and what I was wondering is, You know, aren't there permanent disqualifications from ministry as far as like forgiving people? I can forgive, but to me, that doesn't mean you automatically can get back in leadership. But given the details of what has happened here and in so many other places, is there a such thing biblically as maybe a permanent disqualifier, especially if you've never really confessed to what may have happened? Well, yeah, the Bible talks about the necessity of having being above reproach, and that is in Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3. It talks about those qualifications. So he must be above reproach. We'll just stick with that. So we have these difficulties we have to deal with. So what if he's divorced? Well, then there's conditions of divorce What if he's divorced as an unbeliever and then he becomes a Christian and then repents, you know, he's remarried, what are you going to do? So some churches have no problem with that and some churches do. What's the right answer? Well, that's worth a discussion. What happens if he was a Christian and he got a divorce from his wife? Then with the qualifications there's he dismissed I wouldn't say automatically because if she was the one who said she was a Christian and then Said then, you know lived an ungodly life or left him committed adultery. He was not at fault She was then he's innocent because of first Corinthians 7 talks about the unbelieving Spouse let the spouse go you're under no compulsion at that point no obligation. So you're set free and So at that point, with caution, I'd say, OK, he's not automatically disqualified from being a pastor, though we'd have to study the conditions. Was he abusive and stuff? And it's just a lot of variables in there. And then the local body of Christ would have to really take an in-depth look and then make a decision on that. All right. what happens if the pastor uh... he does something bad uh... in the pulpit i mean on the pulpit in the as a as a pastor uh... there well uh... what's he doing that's bad if he's committing adultery he's permanently disqualified permanently because he would never be above reproach at that point he knew what was going on and he'd be disqualified he's down he's gone he could still attend church of course but uh... he'd be disqualified and there's other things like this we get into and various things that would disqualify, but stuff like that, okay? Yeah, I think that makes the most sense, especially if someone is maybe not repentant and they're definitely not above reproach. So, yeah, that explanation, I appreciate it very much. Thank you. You know, it reminds me, back in seminary we had a discussion in one of the classes about a guy who was a pastor, and he was married, and he developed an attraction for one of the women who was working at the church. And nothing happened. But he just started developing an attraction that he knew was not godly. And he went to his elders and told the elders about that. The elders then went to the presbytery. The presbytery removed him from the pulpit. And they were going to work with him for two years to get through this, and then afterwards he was eligible for going back in the pulpit. No problem there. He made him, you know, what are you going to do? You get attracted to somebody, you let it go, you don't let it go, how's it work? Whatever. But he was a godly man and above reproach because he was disclosing this when no one knew. Which is really a noble thing, I think. So I wouldn't say he was disqualified. But what if you have someone who, uh, you know, goes along with this and harbors this for years in his heart and doesn't repent of it? Well, then you got to, you know, it comes out. That's a disqualification also. So you see, it's, it's not easy. It's not easy to get an absolute in every situation, but just guidelines there. Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much. More willing. We'll talk tomorrow. All right, big man. Always enjoy your calls. You're good. We'll talk to you later. OK. God bless. All right. God bless. All right. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Let's get to Jordan from New Mexico. Jordan, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you. I appreciate that. I just want you to know, first of all, that I'm so thankful for your ministry, and I'm praying for your ministry, so I just wanted to let you know that first off. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Of course. But my question was about Jesus' baptism, and I know that Jesus was baptized into the Melchizedek priesthood. Right. But I wanted to ask a question if this was, like, wrong to say, because in Leviticus 1.13, they would baptize the animals as well, and would Jesus' baptism also qualify for a baptism of the animal, and that John was offering it because he was, or not offering it, but presenting it because he was from the Levites? Well, hold on, let's back up a little bit, because you mentioned a verse, I went and looked at it immediately, and it doesn't say baptize there, it says, the entrails, however, and the legs, he shall wash with water. and uh... so i would say it's a baptism of that's in that sense uh... because the word there uh... translates as wash, bathe, wash away, wash off to cleanse basically so alright so i don't know if that verse supports that but but go ahead go ahead yeah no i'm sorry i didn't mean baptize i just misspoke sorry about that oh okay that works Would it qualify for the same thing, or is it wrong to say that, or should that not be? To say what again? Would Jesus' baptism qualify for the washing of the animals before the sacrifice? Oh, you mean, OK, well, actually, I've written an article on this. Why was Jesus baptized? And he says it was to fulfill all righteousness. Matthew 315. So it looks like he was baptized in order to enter into the priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. And the water application to him specifically was sprinkling, out of Numbers 8, 7. So there's nothing in the Old Testament that talks about anybody going into the priesthood. Because Jesus was a priest at the order of Melchizedek. He had to fulfill Old Testament law. There was an anointing given to him. The Holy Spirit was put upon him. And the man who entered into that Melchizedek, or the high priest's priesthood, had to have oil put on him. He had to have a verbal blessing given. And Jesus had the oil, which is the Holy Spirit, representative of the Holy Spirit, a verbal blessing. Had to be 30 years of age, and Jesus was 30. And water was applied to the person as a symbol of cleansing. And so I did a real hard study on this. I found no place in any of the priesthood requirements or priesthood issues where the priest was immersed in water. There's none. They would bring him to the tent door and then wash him with water, which meant he was standing up and they would apply water to him in different places and things like that. And so, most probably, that's how it was with Christ as well, so that he was sprinkled because it says, and you shall sprinkle them with water. And that shocks a lot of people, but that's my position, that's what I hold to. Because that's what the law says that Jesus was fulfilling nothing in there says immersed in water for his priesthood requirement Okay Thank you, man, I appreciate that Sure, there's no sin that the cleansing necessary because you're talking about this issue the sacrifice of the Old Testament Animals, which is a type of removal of sin, but Jesus didn't have any sin. So there was nothing there now the high priest was and I think it was Leviticus 16 or 17, had to offer a sacrifice for himself, his family, and then after that, another sacrifice that he would go into the Holy of Holies, and he would offer the blood on the mercy seat. And so that was an offering for himself and his household, which is really interesting. He and his household, not just himself, but his household too. At any rate, so Jesus didn't have any sin, so there was no need for that. So I believe the reason he was baptized was to fulfill Old Testament law, and that he was sprinkled according to that law. That's what I believe. Okay? Okay. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. All right, man, God bless. Hey, folks, if you want to give me a call and argue with me about that, that's fine. 877-207-2276. I know that's an interesting view about Jesus, isn't it? That's what the scripture seems to say. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. You know, during the break there, I asked the people in the chat room in Rumble, I said, OK, so I would test this out. And I said, how many of you now affirm that Jesus was sprinkled with his baptism? Nobody committed. So one guy says, well, I'm a Baptist. So what do you think? And let's see other comments. Honestly, Matt, I can't put my mind on it. I rock with you because you're a teacher, and I believe the work, and time is sweat. Maybe I need a good sandwich. And then I wrote, yeah, I need a good meat sandwich. Don't milk those sandwiches. and uh... let's see so uh... but i told him you know it took me about two years before i was police are admitting that that's what uh... i i i hope to because it's really it's really a bother uh... we when when you're holding something that you don't want to hold anybody else to hold the same position that's a serious issue so i'm sitting on i'm studying this and what pocket i gotta find I went in, let me tell you this, I'm a little excited here, so I went in. My Bible broke and I looked at water, you know? And so, water, okay. And let's see, I can do this right now, I'm gonna do it again. And so, come on, where'd you go, where'd you go, there we go. And so what I did in the English, okay, and that's what you do first, look at the English. Then you can find how many verses they have, then you look at each verse and you see if there's different words in the Hebrew or Greek for water, and then you look up those respective words. So the word water, at least in the English and the NESB, occurs 704 times in the Old Testament or in the Bible, 704 times all the New Testament. Now I could do a search just for the Old Testament, right? So because that's what it says, you know, the the Jesus was fulfilling all righteousness. So now then it comes out to 616. If it's just the Old Testament, that's just the word water, the generic word water. And it occurs in Genesis, you know, the spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters and God's let the water team was living, you know, water. And so the water receded from the flood, the water, when the water in the skin was used up, you know, I'm reading these verses. So what I did was I remember this. I went through, it took me, I think, two hours, two or three hours. And I went through, and I just looked at every single one. Like it says here in Exodus 7, so all the Egyptians dug around the Nile for water to drink. Well, that doesn't deal with baptism, or it doesn't deal with the Melchizedek priesthood, it doesn't deal with anything like that. So, you know, you can scan through it. If you blast your nostrils, the waters are piled up. That's Exodus. It's interesting. The Lord provides water. So, anyway, this is what I did. And I went through, and I looked, and I looked, and I looked. I could not find any place where anybody was immersed in water in the priesthood work. I just couldn't find it. And I thought, well, that's interesting. Because you're always taught. That's what it means. You know, baptism thing, it just means immersion. Well, not necessarily. I've done research on this. And actually, I have a book that talks about baptizo. And the intro or something said, it doesn't mean what everybody says it means. It's not the same way. I remember being resistant to that. This was like 20 years ago. And I remember thinking, I've got to study what it says, because maybe it has some insight and research. So anyway, here's some stuff. So the one who's cleansed shall then wash his clothes, shave off all his hair, and bathe in water, and be clean. Now, that's Leviticus 14a. So what's going on? You have to look at all these. And bathe his body in water, in Leviticus 14.9. So, and then it says, slaughter a bird, an earthenware vessel, running water, running water. So, moreover, anyone who touches his bed shall wash his clothes and bathe in water. So I was looking for anything to do with priesthood requirements. And like I said, I couldn't find anything that was there. Now, here's another little thing that's kind of interesting. With water. So you can type in the phrase in my Bible program, which I use Logos, it's a great program. And you type in the phrase, with water, and it occurs 30 times. Now that becomes interesting. So when I go to Leviticus, it's talking about entrails you shall wash with water. And let's see. And so we have anyway, we have different places in the Bible that talk about this. And so it says they washed him with water in, you know, in like Leviticus eight, six. So, okay, so that caused me to do some more studying. And what happens when it's a verb with something, like anointed with oil or sprinkled with water? So I did a search like that for with water, with oil, with blood, and searched. And I found out that in every case, It's the element is applied to the object. So the oil is applied to the object, or to the person, or to an altar. The blood is applied to something. It's sprinkled. It's poured. It's put upon. And so I couldn't find any place where, when it says baptized with water, that it meant that you were immersed. I just couldn't find it. So is this kind of stuff that got me thinking? And I started to look at some other stuff. I didn't go into it. I don't want to bore people and really get them to be upset with me. That's not my goal, but you know, I have to be faithful to God's word the best I can. I can see it. And, uh, yeah, that's right. Humbly, it depends what, what the meaning of the word is, is. Yeah. So, uh, Like I said, I did this research and I have my, here we go. I found, like I said, I get hiccups all of a sudden. Every time baptized with something or anointed with something or sprinkled with something, the element is applied to the object. It's not the object being immersed. It just is not never there. It's just not there. And that really shook me up. So then what I started doing is I started looking in the New Testament for anything like this. And I found stuff like Matthew 311. As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but he is coming as mightier than I. I'm not even fit to remove his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Well, the Holy Spirit is poured. That's how the Old Testament talks about the arrival of the Spirit, the pouring of the Spirit. And they have lots of verses on that. I did a study on that. I'm like, wow. So the Holy Spirit's poured. That's what it says. And I could give you all kinds of verses for that. And he's poured Isaiah 32, 15, 44, 3, Joel 2, 28, 29, Acts 2, 18. It just goes on. And so I'm like, what? What's really happening here? And as I started studying, my mind started changing so that I go, you know, I just don't see any New Testament stuff where the baptism necessarily means immersion. Now, notice I said necessarily. I don't say any place that requires it. Anyway, if you have some feedback on that, you want to call me and we can talk about it. And there you go. The number is 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call at the bottom of the hour, bottom of the hour already. Wow. It's 877-207-2276. Let's get to Patrick from North Carolina. Patrick, welcome. You're on the air. Hello, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. So what do you got? Well, my question is, uh, you know, let's say that you're right and Jesus was sprinkled. So would that be fair to say that all people should be sprinkled when they get baptized? That's a good question. Um, and I don't have a good answer. And the reason is because I'm not going to die in that Hill, but okay. So, so when I went to Europe in November, I was there for three weeks. We went to Turkey, then we went to Greece, and then we went to Italy, and we did a Bible tour. And we saw baptistries that were there. They were big enough to step down into walk down into and be immersed so you could walk down and I walked into one as an example and I think the the level came up to about I don't know waist high I remember correctly and so It's possible that that could have been filled with water. It looked like a baptistry, steps going in and out of it, you know, in the middle of a courtyard area. So if that was a baptistry, then a person could have been immersed in that. But it could also be that he could stand there with the baptizer and have cupped water, you know, in his hands and put it over his head. So both of those are possible. And so I can't say definitively how the early church did it. The early church, uh... seems to Well, let me do this. I'm still kind of thinking through all this, so I don't have a good answer for you. I have to kind of think it out loud. The Didache is important. The Didache was written in the 60s of the first century. And this is what it says about baptism. But concerning baptism, first baptized, recited these precepts, baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in running water. But if you don't have running water, baptize in some other. If you cannot do it in cold, then do it in warm. If you don't have either, then pour water three times on the head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism, let him do these things in fast and stuff like that. So what seems to be the case is that the early church seems to have practiced both pouring and immersion. But I'm not so sure on the immersion part, because the Baptist trees I saw could be used for immersion, but they could also be used for two people standing in there, and then they're both in the water, and then he cups the water in his hands and does it that way. So this isn't proof. The didache, however, mentions pouring over the head, which is consistent with some Old Testament stuff. All right. Now, some people say the word bapt, B-A-P-T, means, by necessity, immersion. And no, it doesn't. And I can prove that very easily from scripture. There might be places where it's said to refer to immersion, but there's many places where it does not. And so, you know, Acts 1-5, for John baptized with water, you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Well, being baptized with the Holy Spirit means the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and that's what happened in the next chapter in Acts 2. The Holy Spirit fell upon them, just like was prophesied out of Joel 2-20-29. And so, okay, so if you're John baptized with water and you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit, if baptism there means immersion, you'll be immersed with the water, you'll be immersed with the Holy Spirit. It doesn't fit. But if it means pouring, John baptized you by pouring water on your head, you'll be baptized by the pouring of the Holy Spirit upon you, then it makes sense. So now we get into this issue. Is there a case for it? There certainly seems to be a case for the pouring, as baptism seems to be in the New Testament on the issue of that. All right, having said that, what ought we do, what we ought to do, is to do what we think that the scriptures are teaching. So if a person believes that baptism must be by immersion, I would not say to the person, don't get immersed. I'd say, then do it that way. If a person thought that pouring was the biblical means, then that's the way he ought to do that. I think the scriptures are clear enough that we ought to be baptized, of course, but that that we have the right to make a decision for ourselves what we think is the right way according to the scriptures. So ought we be baptized by sprinkling? I would say yes if you believe that that's how Jesus was baptized according to the Old Testament law and you want to follow his example. Then I'd say yes. But nothing in the New Testament says specifically with sprinkling because there's a word for sprinkling. And it wasn't used there when it says he's baptized. But on the other hand, baptism is a theological concept that can theoretically include immersion and or sprinkling and or pouring. But it's not just a procedure, it's something that has a covenantal sign to it. So that's why the word baptism is used, not just sprinkling. Though there are many, there's, oh, I've gone to the next slide, note. So this is, it's a tough one. I'm trying to say to people, Do what you believe the scriptures teach. Because where I'm at right now, I'm not absolutely convinced that the word baptism cannot mean immersion. But though I'm having trouble proving it does. So it's a tough one. One thing to consider is in John 131, the scripture says, this is John speaking, I did not know him. But but the reason I came baptized with water was that he would be revealed to Israel. So Jesus was baptized in water because God told John, if you see the one you see, the dove is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit. And John had to immerse Jesus in water to to bring the dove, because that's what happened at his baptism. The heavens opened up, the dove came down and So then, I believe that there's no scripture in the New Testament that said he was baptized to be the high priest. Well, he says in Matthew 3.15, he has to be baptized in order to fulfill righteousness. That's referenced in the Old Testament. So where... But that righteousness... But you have to ask... Okay. You have to ask a question. John came up with genius... Hold on, Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, hold on. You have to ask a question to fulfill. What was he fulfilling? That's what you have to ask. And the answer is he was fulfilling John's testimony. John's testimony is what made Jesus. You know, he had a witness. John was a witness. Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, Patrick. Patrick, I know you did another trinity, the person of Christ, and that baptism to you is crying. So you're way off base on a lot of things. I would suggest that what you do is go look in the Old Testament for the things that he needed to do according to the Old Testament law that he did right then. He said it needed to be done, and this is found in Leviticus 8, Numbers 4, and Exodus 29. So you can go check those out and see, okay? All right, all right, all right. Yep, folks, we have to move along. Patrick does not have all his theological paws in the litter box. Let's get to Ebeneezer from California. Ebeneezer, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. Um, yeah, I have, uh, some quick questions. Uh, just one thing, just to piggyback on, um, what Patrick was talking about. Um, so, uh, is, so can you be, can you be, um, when this is to be saved? Well, yes and no, depending. You can be a one, this, excuse me, I'm coughing. Hold up. Wow. You can be technically, okay. Yeah, you can be a oneness and be saved, but not normally. You could be a oneness person who doesn't know what the truth is, be regenerate, and then come out of it because the Holy Spirit's gonna work on you to believe the truth and you'll accept the Trinity. So technically, there could be a person who is a oneness church, gets truly saved, and he still believes in oneness, but The Holy Spirit will work on that person and bring that person to the truth and bring them out. So in that sense, yes. But on the other hand, if someone just denies a Trinity like the Oneness do and holds to the story and view of Christ in the Incarnation and they reject the true doctrines, then no, it wouldn't be saved. Okay? Okay. I just wanted to put that in there real quick. I have some other questions. I mean, I talk to a lot of these EO guys. I've been trying to witness to them, and a lot of Catholics, a lot of EOs. And so, like, they would tell me, well, actually, it was a Catholic dude, and he would say that, why do I, why did you go for the Masoretic text instead of the Septuagint? And, because I know that, I know that, We're going to break. Sorry, there's a hard break coming up. So hold on, and we'll get back to you after the break, OK? All right, buddy. Sorry about that. Just the way the timing goes. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you want to give me a call, the number's easy, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. We're at the last segment of the hour. Man, that's a fast hour for me so far. It's like I just started. All right, let's get back on with Ebenezer. Welcome. You're on the air. Yeah. Yeah. So just had two questions real quick. So pretty much So the paper guy, he was saying that, uh, it's always been 73 books. Um, but I was like, cause you have this thing out of, uh, a lot of CA word, which, uh, uh, affirmed as 63 books, I mean, 66 books, but, um, it did include Baruch. So that will include the apocryphal text. Yes, so the Masoretic text didn't include the apocryphal books, but the Septuagint did. And so the Eastern Orthodox will want to use the Septuagint because they think it means those books are inspired, but they're not. Okay, so was it always 66 books and then the Catholic Church added? No, at first there was no books. And then there was Job, which was probably written first. And then maybe the Pentateuch, then it was six books, and then it was later added on to God's word throughout the centuries as God worked in the Old Testament. So we had 39 books, but the Jews, they had 22 instead of 39 like we do, because they combined certain books like 1 Kings, 2 Kings as one. So where we would divide them, they're still exact same content. They just divided them up differently. So they had 22 instead of 39. So it's the same number of words. It would just arrange differently. So the Jews, according to Romans 3.2, are the ones who were given the oracles of God. So they recognized the scriptures and they did not read the apocryphal books. The E.O. and the R.C. do, but they're denying the right and the calling of the Jews and the calling by God to give them the scriptures, and they did not accept the apocryphal books, okay? So at that point, before the New Testament was written, there were 39 books, you know, or 22 if you go to the Old Testament style, Jews, and that's all it was. It did not include the apocryphal books, okay? Okay, just one more quick question. So I was talking to an EO guy, right? And so he would say that, oh, he said that, because I told him, you know, the commandments and, but he said, why did God tell Moses to make a icon of a cherubim, the image of a cherubim? Sorry, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, no, because even when you have exodus 23 where it talks about no image and heaven and stuff. Yes. So the EONRC uses argument. Well, God commanded the creation of of of images. So images are OK to use in worship. But when God commanded that they be made, he he commanded it to be done and he commanded it to be in the temple that represents the things dealing with his glory, his presence, his work. So what does the Bible say? In Deuteronomy 5, 8, it says, you shall not make for yourself an idol or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on earth beneath, the water or anything like that. You should not worship or serve them. So there's a difference between what God commands and what they would do for themselves. So the EO and the RC are doing it for themselves. They're violating the word of God by making these idols and icons that they bow before and do homage in front of and so they're committing idolatry at this point. So you said Deuteronomy 2, 5, 8? 5. Deuteronomy 5, 8 is where it is. It says you shall not make for yourself an idol. Yes. Or any likeness of what is in heaven above. Yes. The difference between God commanding it and them doing it themselves. God didn't command to make a statue of Mary and put it in a church. And then, as I saw in Mexico, I went into a Catholic church and I saw a woman on her knees praying the rosary. She's walking her way, I mean, kneeling her way on her knees walking down the aisle. to Jesus, and then just as a rite of Jesus as a big statue of Mary. I mean, it's just this idolatry that the Catholic Church needs. Flat-out idolatry. Idolatry. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. Okay, all right, all right. And so you said, just real quick, the Jews, they had those books, but we separated those books, pretty much. You know, I don't know the history of how it worked, But when the Jews, let's just say, for example, let's just say that the Old Testament Hebrew was, let's just say, 500000 words exactly. OK, and it was twenty two books. Our thirty nine books are also 500000 words exactly. They're just arranged a little bit differently. That's all. OK, that makes sense. I don't know how many books there are, but OK. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Matt. Appreciate you. All right. OK. God bless. All right. Now let's get to Janice from North Carolina. Janice, welcome. You're on the air. Hello. Good evening. I was listening earlier, and I think a couple of days ago when you were talking about Jesus's baptism and. In Matthew three, it says that Jesus came up out of the water. Yes. So what's your take on that? Wouldn't it suggest that he was immersed? No. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to go to Acts. Now, I'm not just ignoring what that says. He came up out of the water. But we have another phrase where they came up out of the water. And you can see here. All right. And this is Acts 8, 38. And this is the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip, and he ordered the chariot to stop. They both went down into the water. They both went into the water, Philip, as well as the eunuch. And he baptized him. Philip baptized the eunuch when they came up out of the water. The spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away. So if the phrase come up out of the water means they were immersed, then it would mean that both Philip and the eunuch were immersed at the baptism. OK, yes. It doesn't work. So that's why. Yeah. So you could go into the water up to your waist, up to your knees. You know, when I had lived in Southern California, we take the kids of the beach. I'd be out there, you know, when they're little out there at their knees. Get out of the water. You come up out of the water. OK. You know. All right. Yeah. OK. Thank you so very much. I appreciate it. You're welcome so very much. Thanks. Bye bye. Good. You know, I like when people say they like listening to me. Now, there could be different reasons for that. One, they like to be irritated. There are people who like to be irritated. There are people who like to be challenged. My wife is way past all of those. And so, hey, anybody hear me talk to you about something? She just looks at me with this deadpan stare and her eyelids go to half-mast. So I'll just leave the room. I just walk out backwards without just breaking anything. But this stuff, to me, this is interesting stuff, OK? And I really, really, really like doing it. And now, Buskman. He asked a question, and it was put in by Laura. Thank you. Hey Matt, when Jesus offered to wash Peter's feet, Peter denied at first. Jesus reasoned with him, so Peter said, then wash my whole body, Lord. And in John 50, is that proof of more than a sprinkle? Now, that is a good question. Now, I've got to find the verse where it says that because there is a word. It's nip, no, is it niptoe? That's the word that's used there, niptoe, and I'm going to find the verse. Let's see, go 35, 38. I just had it. Wash, let's see, it's in John 13. Yes, here we go, John 13. And so Peter, you know, he says, okay, so this is the word nipto. And the dictionaries, the Greek dictionaries say to wash some part of the body as the face, hands, or feet. So I did a search for nipto, and it occurs 17 times in the Bible. And like the first occurrence is in Matthew 6 17, but when you fast anoint your head and wash your face And so there's a lot of verses like this like they do not wash their hands wash their hands He said away and washed and came back seeing So he washed his eyes. That's John 9 the man who called Jesus and goes and washed up his eyes and and says, you apply clay to my eyes, and I wash. So this is how that word is. And so he poured water in the vase and began to wash the disciples' feet. So that word specifically means to wash a part of the body. And this is what I like about different words. is that in different cultures, different languages, words mean different things. Like, rincon in Spanish is corner, the word corner, but it's the inside corner. And there's another word, rincon, I forgot it, what's the outside corner. And we don't have that in English. I wish we did. That's great. And so here, the word in Greek, lipto, or nipto, excuse me, is used specifically to wash a part of the body. And that's what it says, to wash your feet, to wash another's feet. So that's what it says, to bathe, to wash things. Nipto usually expresses the washing of the part of the body as the hands, the feet, the face, the eyes. And so then, let's see, keep reading. On the other hand, luo, that's luo-o, to bathe oneself, always implies not washing a part of the body, but the whole, ooh, interesting. See, let's go to Acts 9.37. And I'm gonna look at that word right there and see this, washed her body. And that's from lucentis, lucentis. Yeah, just luo-o, yeah, that's interesting. So now if I do a search on that one, See I like this is this is real search real research that occurs only five times Jesus said there He was bathed. He's only to wash his feet hmm and then Sick died when they had washed her body. That's what she had died took them very our night and washed their wounds hmm And full assurance, our bodies washed with pure water. Ooh, that would be the best verse, I think. That would be the best verse to try and get the idea that a person is immersed. That would be the best verse, I think, is Hebrews 10.22. And our bodies washed with pure water. Now what does that mean? It's an interesting discussion because look what it says. This is interesting Hebrews 10 22 It says let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith having our hearts sprinkled Clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water So that's an interesting verse to study because sprinkling and washing are put there and neither word is baptism and the word for sprinkle is uh... was a good word it's uh... run to do so run to do so it's speaking of of greek words my favorite greek word is the word for compassion splot needs a money splot needs a mind i love that word hey what you have a word splot needs a mike it just doesn't sound like court compassion greek is fun uh... unless you're scramming for an exam that it's pretty terrible Oh man, I remember that. I'm going to cram for an exam. Memorize these 5,000 words and then these 17 declension patterns. Don't forget how to conjugate. And then you have to learn what the genitive absolute is and the dative of means. Because you're like, what? Yeah, that's that's Greek. So okay. We've got about 15 seconds on the show. Hey, I just hope you're having a good time listening and If you want you want to support us we could really appreciate that. We do need that support We asked five or ten dollars a month. Not much. It's easy to do. Just go to carm.org C-a-r-m dot o-r-g forward slash donate. That's it It's easy to do and we would love it. We need that help with the Lord bless you and by his grace We're back on the air tomorrow and we'll talk to you then. So have a good evening, everyone. God bless.