The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. It's easy to do. And I want to hear from you, so give me a call. And let's see, move this right here, do this right here. And then everybody should be able to hear that. Okay, good. So I want to thank you all for your prayers for my wife. She really does need them. She's recovering from a fall and etc. But her condition is really bad. So just continue to lift her up in prayer. She really appreciates that. I'm still trying to get her on the radio sometime to talk about her condition and what it means to be a Christian in light of the difficulties that she is facing on a regular basis. All right. If you want, you can also send me an email on this lovely March 13th, 2025. You can send an email to info at karm.org, info at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And in the subject line, put in radio comment or radio question, and we can get to those. We have no callers waiting right now. And I had some interesting conversations last night on Discord. I like to go into Discord and answer questions. That's what I do here. People call up, I answer questions. And I go into these chat rooms, people come in, they ask questions, I answer questions. And one of the reasons I like to do that is it keeps me fresh, and it helps me to understand some of the things that I need to study more. They will ask questions, and then the people of the false religions, what they'll do is they'll challenge me in varying areas, and it forces me to study. And so I'm always testing what I know theologically before the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian scientists, Unitarians, one is Pentecostal, Mormons, let's see, what else, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, et cetera. So always doing that. Now, something interesting last night. So, I mentioned it already about the LDS doctrine. The LDS doctrine of celestial, I'm going to say it a couple times here, because there are kids in the car. Let's just say celestial whoopee, where God has got his wife in heaven and makes baby babies. And so I've been saying this for a long time. And the reason I've been saying it is because, excuse me, because it's not in California where I'm from, this is what Mormons were telling me. And not everyone would say that. But that's what they were saying. So, an individual checked my stuff to see if what I had been saying and claiming was true. And he was a Calvinist, he was a reformed guy, so he couldn't find any backup for it, any documentation. And then, another person did the same thing. A Mormon, now this Mormon guy, he's smart, he knows Greek a lot better than I do, but I will admit, he's arrogant. and condescending his tone. He does it a lot. He's condescending, speaks with, you know, a self-imposed kind of authority, and he'll say, well, come on, Matt, don't you understand this? He'll talk like that. And so I try to be patient with him, mostly. Sometimes, you know, it's hard because, you know, the incessant condescension and pride and arrogance on his part. Now, that doesn't represent all Mormons. I'm just saying that this particular guy. This guy challenged me about this issue of, does God as God's wife in Mormonism have sexual relations to produce spirit offspring? And so finally, last night, I confronted him on it. I said, look, Let's go through some of the quotes. And so we'll do this and what was really interesting I'm gonna read you some of these quotes and And I typed out but he didn't respond to it. I typed out in a chat area before we got into the voice I said if it's true that your church teaches this Would you leave your church because there's no response to that because he knows me well enough to know that you know I'm gonna back up what I say and so I'm gonna read you some of the quotes and it's gonna have the word SEX in it. So there's any children whatever, you know, I Try to be nice about it but uh... this is what's on the posse john a would still said in uh... nineteen fifties eternal eternity of sex it has already been said it's that sex is each on eternal principle equivalent of it so do you believe dimly understood by men has always existed will continue for ever since i said represents eternal condition the beginning of children's coincidentally on eternal necessity when i read this i i i did this uh... before the mormon i got into a chapter when i said to the people to look what do you think do you think this is them teaching this there's a difference in the senate's the difference between the lds church officially speaking to me with a a stated official position that which i believe they've done on this Their apostles and prophets have taught it. I'm indebted to Bill McKeever. Bill McKeever is a friend of mine in Sandy, Utah, and he's a world-class expert on Mormonism. And so he's written this book in their own words. And what he has done, he's spent, I don't know how many, hundreds of hours going through their writings, different publications, from all kinds of sources, and he has categorized a book of almost 400 pages of just quotes from them in different sources. And so he sent me the file, and you know, some of my friends go, hey, send me the file. So he sent me the file. I went through, and I've gotten these quotes out of that book. So I've gotten the quotes out of his work, his research. So I'm just telling you, that's where I got this. But it's right there. All right. So thanks again, bells, for listening. Appreciate you, buddy, because he's down at Salt Lake, where the radio show is down there, too. So this is from the First Presidency, George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, Discourses, and Writings of President George Q. Cannon, Volume 1, page 129. It says, the Mormons believe that all men were born in a spirit world of the union of the sexes, having a literal father and a literal mother before coming to this world. The Latter-day Saints believe that God is an exalted man and that we are the offspring of him and his wife. So the first one, eternity of sex. The second one, offspring in heaven from a literal father and mother. Now, this next quote is again from apostle John Woodstowe, from Rational Theology, 1915, page 64. Quote, sex among the gods, sex which is indispensable on this earth for the perpetuation of the human race is an eternal quality which has its equivalent everywhere. It is indestructible. And he goes on a lot more. Since we have a father who is our God, we must also have a mother who possesses the attributes of Godhood. So there we go. It says sex among the gods, and offspring in heaven, literal mother and father. The 11th president is a prophet, okay? Harold B. Lee. This is the teachings of Harold B. Lee, page 22. He says this. Now, the fact that you and I are here in mortal bodies is evidence that we were among those who were in that great concourse of organized intelligences. We knew God our Father. He was our Heavenly Father. We were sired by Him. We had a heavenly mother. Can you think of having a father without a mother? So we're sired. What does it mean to sire? It means to beget. So this is a farm term. These animals would sire other animals, and that means they'd have coitus. Thirteenth President Ezra Taft Benson says this, and this is the teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, page 7. You can see also the Church News, December 18, 2004, page 16. Man, Bill did a great job. I'm standing on his shoulders on this one. He did a great job. Here's a quote. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which he performed his mission in the flesh was sired by that same holy being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Can it get any clearer than that? Can it? I don't think so. All right, here we go. Bruce R. McConkie, and this is in Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Volume 3, page 141. He says, quote, begotten means begotten. It means Christ's mortal body was procreated by an eternal sire. It means God is the Father of Christ after the manner of the flesh. So here we have siring again. How about that? Now, this is Roy W. Doxey, The Doctrine and Covenants Speaks, Volume 2, page 184. How about this? The word begotten is to be understood as literal, literally, as the beginning of Jesus Christ in the spirit and also in the flesh by our Heavenly Father. This is what it says. The word begotten is to be understood as literally as the beginning of Jesus Christ in the spirit and also in the flesh by our Heavenly Father. Okay, literal, not figurative. And this is BYU professor emeritus Robert L. Millet, The Mormon Faith, Understanding Restored Christianity, page 31. Again, this is restored Christianity. Yeah, God has got his wife, people in the world, they have sexual relations in heaven, make spirit babies in heaven, human bodies on earth. This is the restored gospel, the restored Christianity, right? Not, anyway, so this is what he says. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which he performed his mission in the flesh was sired by that same holy being we worship as God, our eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was he begotten by the Holy Ghost. Wow. here is the way professor victor l lead low principles and practices of the restored gospel page one forty six as with our natural birth two parents were involved uh... our have our father in heaven and a lesser known but vital mother as one mormon writer noted letter to say it's believe that all the people there are actual spiritual offspring of god eternal father in this perspective parent who requires a father mother whether for the creation of spirits the pre-mortal life or of physical tabernacles on earth All right, hold on, let's get to, let's do one more, and then I'll summarize them. There's 13 quotes, but I've got a break coming up, so hold on. Maybe I'll continue after the break. We've got your main column again. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. 877-207-2276. Alright, let's get to Jermaine. Hey buddy, welcome in, you're on the air. I was always fascinated by Elijah and Elijah, where he prays with his eyes open, and he can't see that there's chariots and horses and angels. Is that an indication of the spiritual battle that takes place around us all the time? Of course. Yes, there actually are stories of missionaries in different places in the world who were under threat, and the aggressors did not do that because their eyes were open and they saw angels with swords and chariots protecting. You can take it for true or not, but it's consistent with what happened there in 2 Kings 6. So yeah, I don't have a problem with that at all. And so that would kind of be something that, I mean, I guess you really couldn't answer. Is there a reason why God only allows certain people to see that aspect of our lives? Yes, God... It's one of the questions, those kind of... You know how a sheet will flap in the wind, and it moves at different paces, at different times, in different directions? And this is the kind of stuff that fits that. Questions that we don't know, you know, it's just kind of a flying in the wind kind of, when does it surface? When does it become visible? It's just, it's hard to say. But anyway, so I don't know why God says to one and not another. The spirit comes and goes as it wishes. And that's it, you know, that's all I can say. I don't know. Okay. I guess a follow-up I would ask is, I know some people believe in the concept of guardian angels, but I don't know, I mean, I can't find where the Bible actually goes into that. Would that be related, or is that like a completely different thing? Yeah, guardian angels. There are angels of children. So, let's see. There are angels, it says, Jesus says, but there are angels, if you can find the verse where it talks about that. Let's see. Watching over children, that is Matthew 18, 10. See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that there are angels in heaven, always in the face of my Father in heaven. So some allude to that being a guardian angel, but we really can't draw too much out of it because it says they're angels. So what does it mean? But that's one of the verses people have used to support that idea. But that I can't say for sure. All right, well, I'd say between your answers and what's in the text, it really just shows how deep and how much depth the Bible has. So I really just love it. It's a lifelong book. Oh, yes, it is. Oh, yeah. I'm still studying it, have been studying it. And there's studies in it. One of the studies I started but haven't finished is just looking at the words of Christ and how did he use his authority. And that was it. There's just one study I've gone through, like one and a half Gospels, where he taught or he forgave or he whatever. I'm just trying to categorize them for that reason. It's just one study. And then another study deals with the issue, just kind of related to what you said, where God opens the eyes to see things. it looks like that in the scriptures that all the good things that come to us are only achieved by God. Our faith, repentance, coming to Him, election, predestination, He opens the mind, opens the heart, to a far greater degree than what I thought before. Without that, nobody could ever be saved. So it's not up to us and our free will and our abilities, but up to God and His mercy, and that alone. And this is what I've been studying lately and getting more of an intense understanding of that reality as I'm going through stuff. So there's a lot of stuff still to study in the Word of God, that's for sure. Yeah. That's fascinating. All right, well, thanks a lot, man. I appreciate you. I'll hopefully get to call you tomorrow. All right, Jermaine. God bless, buddy. Thanks for calling. Appreciate it. All right. So that was Jermaine from the People's Republic of California. All right, now I'm going to read some more quotes from the celestial sex thing. And then I have a bonus quote, a bonus quote that I got there. I'm reading these from my article that's on CARM. It's on the home page. I did this research, and it's there. In fact, I just added a bonus quote to it during the break because I was reading through something else. Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about this one. So here we go. So this is from Encyclopedia of Mormonism, volume one, page 234. while members of other christian denominations may speak metaphorically of all human kind, being brothers and sisters and children of God. Latter-day Saints believe it literally in the sense that a father in heaven and a mother in heaven created spirit children in a pre-immortal existence." See? It's literal, not metaphor. Well, they're married, they have large flesh and bones, so there you go, you know? Okay. Uh, this is number eleven, uh, born in the, uh, this is, uh, Achieving a Celestial Marriage, 1976, page 129. By definition, exaltation includes the ability to procreate the family unit through eternity. This our father in heaven has power to do. His marriage partner is our mother in heaven. We are their spirit children, born to them in the bonds of celestial marriage. Okay, here's another one. This is from Let's see Patriarch Eldridge G Smith in the article opposition in order to strengthen us from ensign magazine conference edition January 1974 page 62 Bill McKibery did such a great job on this In the heavens before the earth was formed the plan of this earth was the plan of this earth life was explained to all of us We were then but spirit offspring of our father and mother in heaven And then here's the 13th one that I have listed a bonus quote from Brigham Young let's see if this is from of the way professor victor a lot low principles and practices of the restored gospel which one forty six in this particular requires both the father mother when for the christian spirits of people like or other physical tabernacles on earth if the water shares a parenthood with the holy father uh... and i think it's important to see if i did that i don't know if it might be good to so much stuff so uh... let's see let me say that so uh... okay there we go so i'm gonna do is uh... Yeah, I think I've got an actual spiritual offspring. That's a sick quote. Here's a bonus quote. Here's a bonus quote. This is what Brigham Young said. This is in Journal of Discourses, volume 4, page 218. Oh, and there's a break. So hold on. I'll be right back after these messages. I'll give you the bonus quote from Brigham Young, what he said. Oh, he said something interesting. Oh, yeah. I'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live! I'm taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. We try again, 877-207-2276. Okay, here's a bonus quote from Brigham Young. Now listen to this. There's two quotes. This first one is from Journal of Discourses, volume H, page 115. Now by the way, just so you know, Brigham Young was the second prophet of the Mormon Church. And he said in Journal of Discourses, volume 13, page 95, he said that whatever he said in the pulpit was as good as scripture. Just take it and believe it. That's what he said. So what did he say? He said, the birth, this is Journal of Discourses, volume 8, page 115, the birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children. It was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood, was begotten of the Father as we were of our fathers. What? What's he saying? Begotten of His Father, capital F, God the Father, the birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children. It, as we were of the birth of Christ, was a result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood, was begotten of His Father as we are of our fathers. So, is that clear? If not, check out this quote. Journal of Discourses, volume 4, page 218. When the time, Brigham Young said, when the time came that his firstborn, the Savior, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came himself and favored that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. There's, interesting, that's interesting. And the late Bruce R. McConkie, who was a member of the First Council of the Seventies, said there's nothing figurative about his paternity. He was begotten, conceived, and born in the normal and natural course of events. That's a book about Bruce R. McConkie, page 742. That book is sold in LDS bookstores. So, I mean, you know, what are you going to say? What are you going to say about that? So, if you're a Mormon, and you've been listening to this, does that shock you? And I hope it does. If it doesn't shock you, it should. Now think about it. In Mormonism, God is an exalted man from another world. He was basically another planet. And he, well, became a god, and he had a goddess wife, and he came to this world, and he produced offspring, and he formed this world. And they apparently have celestial sex and produce offspring in heaven that inhabit human bodies at birth. This is just, so far, not biblical. It's so incredibly against scripture. Let me think about it. What are some of the signs of a religion created by a man? Well, one, a lot of sex. And lots of women. So Joseph Smith had like 27 wives. And he taught, and Brigham Young taught, and others have taught, the concept of Mormon sex in heaven. See, this is really disturbing. Because the idea of heaven in Mormonism is so humanistic. instead of God and his presence being the greatest of all experiences. No, heaven, the greatest experience, is measured by what a man can do physically. Sex. And so, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and others, as I read the quotes, relate this idea of celestial sex. I've heard so many of them say, what would it be like in heaven without your family? It's a nice sentiment. The incredible presence of the Holy God of the universe makes that just fall away into nothingness. God is the greatest, not our families, not having coitus forever. This is such a carnal thing. Now think about this too. Islam, Muhammad, what did he teach? He taught that he could have lots of wives and that heaven consists of having lots of virgin women. and that the average Muslim can have up to four wives. And they teach, Islam teaches, there's a phrase, what your right hand possesses. What that means is that in a battle, you win a battle, the women that you capture, that means your right hand possesses them. You can do with them as you desire. and let your imagination run, because that's exactly what Muhammad taught. He taught these men, you can have these women and do things that you want with them, just win the battle. And when you die, you get more women. This is the theology of carnality, of humanist philosophy, of the idea that the measurement of what is good and eternally good is measured by the function of certain bodily organs. And so this is, it just should be a clear demonstration that both those religions were invented by guys who wanted power, money, and sex. It's just that simple. And I know that, as I'm talking, I know that a lot of Mormons are listening in Salt Lake City. I know that you have a testimony. I don't care about your testimony. My testimony is stronger than any Mormon testimony. Seriously, this is not a mockery. I have an incredibly strong testimony, and I've given it to many, many, many, many Mormons. And none of them have come close to such a testimony. And it's a testimony of the very presence of the Holy Spirit and the very presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. And I'm not kidding. And so I got converted, and was just whipped right out of the occult and paganism into full-blown Christianity within minutes, by the very presence of God himself, in a church. And it just reduced me to a sobbing mass of repentance, in the presence of incredible holiness. And the Lord Jesus was there. And I couldn't see him or touch him. But he was there, and I still live to this day, 51 years later. I remember his presence, I remember his attention, I remember everything. I remember it. It was him. It was him. And I know his presence, I know his glory, and I've experienced it. And I'm not using this as proof of anything, but I'll tell you. I can just say that the idea of, I could be there in heaven and God says, hey, Matt, this is what you can have a choice. Be with me in my glorious presence forever, or you can have women and sex. It's scoff. I want nothing to do with the latter. I want you, my Lord. You are the greatest. And having experienced that incredible presence of holiness, there's nothing that compares to it. And everything else pales in significance. So it's obvious to me. that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were men who followed their hormones and their desires and created a God in the image of man who has a body of flesh and bones, who has a goddess wife, who has sexual relations with his wife in heaven to produce and sire offspring. And as these quotes have said, eternity of sex, sex among the gods, literal father and mother in heaven, literal begetting, literal father and mother, excuse me, sired by heavenly father, son of Jesus, excuse me, Jesus is the son of God, literally, actual spiritual offspring, born in celestial marriage as spirit children, spirit offspring to the Father and Mother in Heaven, and there's the parenthood of Evian. It goes on. I mean, this is it. And how can anybody believe this stuff? Well, they can because their eyes have not been opened by God. They have followed after a different teacher, a different shepherd. They don't know the voice of God. They don't know the presence of God. And they settle for something that has been made to sound good. Families forever. And so that becomes a measure of what Heaven will be. They're not knocking marriage. It's great to have a spouse and children. But they fail in comparison to God Almighty, the sustainer of the entire universe, and His holiness that permeates. And when He just lets His holiness shine upon you, you are just reduced. You're undone. There's no way anybody experiences that could ever be a Mormon. Hey, we have nobody waiting. If you want to give me a call, there's the music for the break. Last segment coming up. Give me a call. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live! Painting of gold at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. This is Matt Slick Live. Okay, now, if you want to give me a call, we have nobody waiting, so, uh, wide open. The number is 877-207-2276. I hope the, uh, quotes and the discussion is, um, interesting. And let me just tell you, one of the reasons I'll take time to do something like that is because I sincerely hope that Mormons are listening. I hope that they come out of Mormonism, because Mormonism is not a Christian religion. It's a false religion. God is not an exalted man from another world. It doesn't have a god. That's why they don't produce spirit offspring by having celestial sex. You can't become a god. Joseph Smith was a charlatan. He was involved in the occult. in money-digging and other occult activities. The Book of Mormon has been severely altered, as has been the Doctrine and Covenants, and has been polished by the Mormon Church, which is the richest religious organization in the world. There's a lot of stuff that you guys don't know about in Mormonism, and it does not preach a true gospel because it does not preach a true God. And so all who die in Mormonism, when they die, they're going to be judged, they're going to be damned. You can't die in Mormonism and believe official Mormon theology and also be saved. You will go to eternal damnation. I don't want the Mormons on their deathbed to, as so many accounts of people waking up and saying something right before they pass away, I don't want the Mormons to say, oh no, something's wrong. Because they put their faith and their hope in Joseph Smith in a testimony of feeling. Instead of the word of God, instead of the truth. Of who God is in his word. And that the true gospel, the true doctrine of God is that there's only one God in all existence, in all place, in all time. Isaiah 43, 10, 44, 6, 45, 5. This is what the Bible tells us. There is no other God other than God. And God's a trinity. Not three separate gods, but one God. One being. He doesn't have a wife. He's not six feet tall. He doesn't have a body, flesh, and bones, and has sex with his God, his wife. And they make spirit babies. It's not biblical. It's not what Mormon, excuse me, it's not what Judaism taught. It's not what Christianity teaches. Only Joseph Smith says, oh, the true gospel was lost. You know, I can't tell you how many cults I've studied when they say the same thing and the true gospels laws our prophet our prophetess our church is the restoration of truth you know it's just it's common because and then what you do is you cast doubt on the word of God see the word of God was corrupted and our prophets one who reveals the truth to you and how do you know it's true pray about it you're feeling and if you are believing that lie and you're praying about it you're not praying to the true living God you're praying to something demonic because of demonic authorship you're gonna get a testimony from a demonic authorship and you're gonna be deceived and that's what Mormonism is it's a demonic deception you need to trust in Jesus Christ alone Even in 35, 1918, they did pray to Jesus and call him their Lord and their God. Joseph Smith, he put a few things in the Book of Mormon that are actually pretty decent. He made it up, and there's lots of evidence to show that the Book of Mormon has been altered and made up and plagiarized and some other stuff. It's just what I'm saying. Anybody who's really studied this knows that. So, the true gospel is you must trust in Jesus Christ, God in flesh. Not a God, but the creator of all the universe. and that you trust in Him, and the faith that you have is granted by God, Philippians 1.29. That faith is in Jesus, John 6.29. So the true faith that comes from God is in Christ, and that faith alone is what makes you right with God. Romans 5.1, Romans 3.28, Romans 4.5. I can go into all this. That we're justified, made right before God by our faith in what Christ has done. Not by you and your works. You know, 2 Nephi 25.23 says we're saved by grace through faith after all we can do. That's humanism. That's humanist philosophy. We have to be the ones who do everything we can do, and then God steps in and does the rest. How arrogant. Oh yeah, that's right. Arrogant. Because it's saying, I can please God by my efforts. You know, like pat yourself on the back. You see, if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly, Galatians 2.21. We don't have to do anything to be saved, because it's a free gift from God. But once we're saved, then we go do stuff because we're saved. But Mormonism teaches a false god, a false Christ, a false gospel. It's not Christian. It is not Christian. It's not. You need to trust in the true Jesus Christ. Let's get to Aaron from North Carolina. Aaron, welcome. You are on the air. Hey, thank you. Sure. So my concern is, with the director of children's ministry position, I'm on the search committee, there are young male applicants that would like to fill this position in my Southern Baptist Church, and I have reservations for that, and I wonder, is there scripture to support that a man or a woman should be in that role? No, there's nothing in there like that. The scripture says you can't or can't. But I would recommend this, that you do a very serious background check, and that no single male, in fact female, none of them should be by themselves without another adult in the room with the children, stuff like that. Period. Okay. Okay. That helps tremendously. The group that I'm working with is in favor of a young male. We have a very experienced elderly woman who could fill the position and check all the boxes, but for some reason, they're leaning more towards this young male. Maybe he's good, maybe she is. But here's the thing about this. I'm married, and let's just say that there's a woman who needs help on the side of the road, and I pick her up, and I'm driving alone in the car with her. What I'm going to do is call up my wife. I have another woman in the car with me. I'm going to keep you on the phone. And so there's nothing untoward going on. I'm going to help somebody, whatever. The idea is you don't want to give any opportunity for something to go bad. So young male, young female. And we assume, well, women are just better and less perverse than men, which is basically true. We have something called testosterone, and women don't have it like we do, and so that really corrupts the mind and the eyes. But we need to, in a church setting, if I were a pastor, I'd say no single adult is to be with the children without, you know, normally speaking, unless there's one person teaching, and you have one other person who rotates around and checks on them all the time. You know, so the idea of accountability, this is something you're going to need. And because there are perverts out there, and a lot of them will gravitate in those situations, there's lots of stories of this kind of stuff and abuse that has occurred in churches because they've trusted people without having back-up checkups. So you're responsible. That's what I've got to make sure. That's all I have to make sure. Well, thank you. I really appreciate it. And thanks for all you do. I've enjoyed reading your articles on the doctrine of election recently. I've just been diving into that pretty hard. And I think you're more on the reform side. Is that right? Yeah, that's correct. Which is what election teaches. That's what it is. And it's right there in the Bible. It's what it says. It's what it says. It's a tough subject. It is, but I think it's tough because people have been taught false things in churches. I could get up, I could do this, you know what, we've got nobody waiting on us, but I could get up in a church and preach a sermon or teach a sermon. I mean, preaching is different, I take it very seriously, I would never use it as an example of something. But I could get up in a seminar and say, let me give you a five-minute sermon. As an illustration, I preach for five minutes about how you choose Jesus, how it's up to you, your free will, and Jesus wants everyone to be saved. And people clap, okay, good stuff. And then I could preach the opposite of that, from Scripture. I do both from Scripture. It's not that the Bible contradicts, it's that most people don't do the deep dive into the deep end of theology and understand that God's the one who chooses us, because it says so. But most people don't like that, because they want to have salvation based on their Yeah. It's true. So this is where I get confused. OK, so if you are saved, it's because God chose you to be saved, right? Yes. 2 Thessalonians 2.13, you have been chosen for salvation from the beginning. Acts 13.48, as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Ephesians 1.4, he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we'd be holy and blameless. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he knew before. I mean, if he knows everything and he's all powerful, then he ultimately knows our choices as a free will person, right? Well, here's what the question is. He knows I'm going to go left when I should have gone right. Is that how you see it? Yes, but this gets more complicated because free will is only the ability to make a choice that's not forced on you, that's consistent with your nature. But you can't exist to activate your choices unless God is the one who puts you there in those circumstances. And so he's the one ultimately in control, because it says in Ephesians 1.11, he works all things after the counsel of his will. Yet at the same time, we're free. But then we have to ask the question, free from what? Free will. Free from what? A lot of people say that their freedom from is their freedom from the restrictions of sin or their own nature. And they don't understand what they're saying. So what does free will mean? Free will from? Free from what? Ourselves? From God? They want, people want the freedom to be able to make their own choices. Well then that means you have to be independent of God some way, don't you? But that's not possible. Yeah. So people elevate free will as though it's kind of like an idol. It's not, I mean, but it's like an idol sometimes. You know, free will. God won't violate your free will. God won't do anything against your free will. It's up to your free will. He just gives us the information. It's up to your free will. Free will is exalted, exalted, exalted. But you know what Jesus says in John 6, 65? He says, you cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the Father. Well, where's your free will in that? You can't. You cannot. That's what it says. Jesus said it. So if it's up to your free will, then why does Jesus say you can't come unless God grants it to you? Well, it's up to my free will. You see? You know, I upset people when I teach biblical theology. They get uppity. Some of them even get irked. Like, I get irked by heresy. I don't get irked. I get rattled, and I get a little afraid. I'm like, oh, what if I'm not one of the elected? Well, you are. I've been baptized. The elect are the ones God has given faith to. And if you have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, then that's it. It's simple. It's over. You're done. It's good. You believe. You believe because God has granted that you have faith. Philippians 1.29 is the aorist passive indicative in the Greek, which means he gives you the action of believing. You do the believing, but he grants that you do it. That's what it says. That's it in the Greek, in Ephesians 1.29. And this is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent, John 6.29. That's what Jesus said. God's a sovereign king, and we need to be bowing to him, and before him, and not bowing before our free will, and our freedom, and us, and what we want. We need to subject themselves to the majesty, sovereignty, holiness of God, the triune, holy, infinite being, who, in his great mercy, saves people. And the funny thing about all this is, that the more people we pray to God about, please save that person, that person, the more elect there apparently is. So something's going on with our freedom in Christ, asking God to save others. From eternity past, it's all ordained, it all worked out, and God's way ahead of us all. Okay? OK, yeah, that's so helpful. Thank you. I really appreciate it. You're welcome. Have a good night. OK. Thank you. You too. All right. Hey, folks, perfect timing. There's the music means I got to get out of here. And may the Lord bless you by his grace. We're back on there tomorrow. I hope you have a great time. Great evening. And by God's grace, hopefully I'll be on Discord in an hour and a half, two hours going through and answering questions. Discord, just check it out. God bless everybody. Talk to you later. Another program powered by the Truth Network.