Looking at our world from a theological perspective, this is the Theology Central Podcast. Making theology central. Good afternoon, everyone. It is Saturday, March the 1st, 2025. It is currently 12.38 p.m. Central Time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. I'm stressing March the 1st because it's just hard to believe We're already in a new month here in 2025. It's like, before we know it, 2025 is going to be over. It's just, I know, I know the days move at the same speed that they've always had, 24 hours in every day, seven days in a week. I understand that, but sometimes you look around, you're like, wait, we're already in March? How did we get here? But here we are. And what I can say about February is in some ways good riddance because man alive, Well, the last part of last month was kind of rough. I've had a rough few weeks, it feels, especially in the broadcasting department, right? I feel like that a lot of the episodes, I just, I've not had one of those that I've been very pleased with. There have been some, let me take that back. There have been a few that I can go, okay, I think that went really well. That was a good discussion. I think that was beneficial. And there've been others that have been a disaster and especially over the last week. We had that sermon on John 2. Remember that? I think a lot of it has been due to sermon reviews. If you really think about it, sermon reviews have really been disastrous, if you think about it. The sermon review that sermon on John 2 where I guess 3 plus 3 equals 6 unless you don't count. That whole mathematical thing that in John 1 there's supposedly 3 days even though clearly there's at least at a minimum 4 referenced, but you only count 3 and then you go to John 2 and then you count that as 3 days later even though the text doesn't really say that and then you say 3 plus 3 is 6 and then oh man, And that thing was a total train wreck. That thing was a disaster of epic proportions. And remember, there was a second part to that. I remember what AI, artificial intelligence, told me, don't review it. Just don't. These things are horrible. I mean, that's bad when artificial intelligence is like, don't even review these sermons. It is filled with hermeneutical, logical, factual errors. Do not review it. That's pretty bad. And then we had the whole, what was that? The dangers of AI, but not artificial intelligence. It's referring to the city of AI, but the sermon wasn't about how the city was dangerous. It's the dangers of AI. So in some ways it wasn't about artificial intelligence, but then it was about artificial intelligence. But It wasn't about the technology of artificial intelligence. It was about our artificial intelligence, even though it was typed out as the dangers of capital A, small i, which would then be a reference to the city, but it never said how the city was dangerous. It talked about how our artificial intelligence was dangerous, but then it never considered that our artificial intelligence is not really artificial because it's a natural part of who we are because we are born sinners. The whole thing was a disaster of epic proportions. So we had the John 2 disaster. We had the dangers of AI disaster. It's been just a mess. And then what in the world happened yesterday here in the United States of America? The whole thing that happened with President Trump and Zelensky. That was, I mean, I'm still so upset about that. I don't even want to I don't even want to talk about that anymore. I feel like I should, right? I feel like I should just turn on the microphone and just let's spend the next six months trying to figure out what has happened in the minds of Republicans, MAGA, conservatives, and Christians who have now become pro-Putin and pro-Russia. Like, what has happened? Now, I talked a little bit about that yesterday, but I can't do that. See, that's one of the things I said I have to not allow myself to do, to turn this into a just News commentary. I just can't do that. Even if you try to look at news commentary from a biblical and theological perspective, it just basically becomes a news program. And I don't know. I don't need to pull people more into that. We need to try to keep people focused on something else. So I've been struggling all morning. Like, what do I do? What do I do? I mean, everything has gone so bad. What do I do? I wanted to kind of return to our discussion about encouragement and discouragement because Well, the last few weeks of February have been discouraging, but I'm like, I don't want to do that. But I did do a little bit of work on how to interpret the passage in Hebrews 10 about us encouraging one another, and then contrasting that with the fact that the Bible itself demonstrates that people, even fellow Christians, that's the source of discouragement. going to be people. It's going to be fellow believers that discourage you, that anger you, that hurt you, that betray you, that deceive you, that gossip about you, that slander about you. So then I was like, wait a minute, if the Bible clearly demonstrates that people are the source of discouragement, yet then when in Hebrews we're called to encourage, how do we understand this? And so I was going to try to do a a little bit of work on that. I mean, I did a lot of work on it, but I decided, no, I'm not going to do that. So I'm like, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And then, I mean, there was a part like, you know what? Who cares about doing anything? Just not doing it. I'm like, but then if I don't do anything, then I'll be frustrated that I didn't do anything. Ah, madness, right? Sometimes that's the way life works. So I was looking at the Sermons 2.0. It's no longer the Sermons 2.0 app. It's not the Sermons 3.0 app. It's Sermons by Sermon Audio app. That's an interesting title for an app. It's the Sermon Audio app, whatever we call it today. I don't know, whatever their correct name is, but I was looking at that. And I saw a sermon entitled, Waters Rising Out of the Temple. Waters rising out of the temple. And this is a message, a part of some special meeting that they're having. I don't know, they've done like four or five messages. I don't know if the conference, revival service, whatever they're calling it, special meetings. I don't know if it's continuing, but I saw it. And whenever I see that there's like a special conference, special meetings, a revival service, I always like to see what they're talking about, what they're emphasizing. So I think this was the very first message in this special meetings, whatever you would refer to it as. And I thought it was interesting. Waters rising out of the temple. And my mind started thinking, well, I bet you they're going to Ezekiel. I mean, they could be going to Revelation. I wonder which way they're going to go. And I'm like, well, you know what? This gets me away from the whole Trump situation. That's good. It keeps me from going back trying to do another message on the encouragement and discouragement since I felt those messages went so bad. It removes me from that. I probably could do another sermon review on a sermon on Isaiah 41 since we're supposed to start that tomorrow, but we know how discouraging and frustrating those messages have gone. I don't know if I want to do another one. So I'm like, no, let's not do that. I'm like, okay, this at least gives me something different to focus on. But at the same time, I'm greatly concerned on what direction this is going to go. So I asked AI, I basically told AI, I'm about to listen to a sermon entitled, Waters Rising Out of the Temple. Give me your predictions. Well, AI was more than happy to give me some predictions, all right, and it gave me a lot here. Here's what it first gives me, predicted text of scripture. The title, Waters Rising Out of the Temple, strongly suggests that the primary text will be Ezekiel 47, 1 through 12, which describes the vision of a river flowing from the temple. Other possible passages that could be referenced include Revelation 22, the river of life proceeding from the throne of God and the Lamb, Zechariah 14a, living waters flowing out from Jerusalem, or John 7, 37-39, Jesus speaking of rivers of living water referring to the Holy Spirit. So AI gave me all of the predicted scriptures that may be referenced. Then AI gave me predicted interpretation and main point of the sermon. This is what AI says. It will possibly be a symbolic interpretation. The river will likely be interpreted as a symbol of God's presence, the Holy Spirit, or the gospel bringing life and restoration. So we're going to get symbolic interpretation according to AI. We may get a focus on spiritual growth and revival. Many sermons on this passage treat the increasing depth of the water as a metaphor for deeper spiritual experiences, revival, or Christian maturity. Or number three, we may get some kind of end times application. The preacher may connect the vision to eschatology, suggesting it represents a future literal fulfillment and a millennial temple or the new creation. Or number four, we may get some type of a prosperity or dominion theology-influenced interpretation. If it is influenced by certain theological perspectives, the message might suggest that church or believers will bring increasing transformation to the world before Christ returns. So according to AI, the main passage will probably be Ezekiel 47. It will reference Revelation 22, possibly Zechariah 14, 8, and possibly John 7, 37-39. The predicted interpretation is going to be symbolic. It's going to talk about possibly spiritual growth and revival. It may give some kind of end times application dealing with eschatology. Or it may have some kind of idea that the church and believers are going to transform the world in some kind of way. And this would be more in line with prosperity or dominion theology. Now, It does give me all the possible hermeneutical errors that AI is predicting will be in the sermon. We'll get to those soon. So there's a little bit of the predictions. Now, AI gives me, I mean, a lot of predictions here, but those are just some of them, and we'll just see what happens, all right? I learned last time when we did the sermon review on the dangers of AI. Remember, I had that whole long introduction about artificial intelligence, and then what was that? That was a disaster of epic proportion. And to be fair, even AI thought the sermon was about artificial intelligence to technology. And even artificial intelligence, after reviewing the transcript, still to this day doesn't really know how he was defining AI, because if it's the dangers of AI, it would be the dangers of the city. He never talked about the dangers of the city. He referenced artificial intelligence, but he didn't—he referenced the technology of—yeah, I won't even go through it all again. That thing was a mess. So I have to sometimes learn to just not say anything and just jump into the review, but I like to set it up and, you know, offer—in broadcasting, you offer a tease, you offer something to try to pull people in, but sometimes with a sermon review, all I can say is, It's time for a sermon review, I guess. And that's not, I mean, I like to, I like to use some form of creativity, but all right, here we go. It's been crazy. February is over. It's March, new month. Let's hope this month starts better than the last month ended. Our sermon reviews were trash. My episodes were trash. My sermons were trash. February's a good time. It's like, just retire and give up. You're garbage. Okay, I understand. I understand. What do you do? What do you do? You get back up. So it's March the 1st. Let's try to see if we can start this month with something positive. Here is a sermon entitled, Waters Rising Out of the Temple. Let's see if AI's predictions are right. Here we go. We've been looking forward to this and I really appreciate everything being here and I said last night, and I'll say again today, I have a friend who got hit by a truck. And when a person is run over by a truck, it takes a while to recover. And I know that nothing will ever be exactly the same here. I shed a tear just sitting down in Sunday school and not seeing that girl over at the keyboard on that side. I've never been here when she wasn't at that keyboard. And you know, someday, You know, thy seat will be empty and thou shalt be missed. Every one of us, we know this life is only temporary. Whenever somebody is taken out a little early like this, I always give the Lord a piece of paper and I say, look, if you wanna take out somebody early, start with Nancy Pelosi. What? All right, ladies and gentlemen, I was just about to interrupt that and go, wow, this starts off somber. This starts off powerful. Then it has to go into some total trash. Lord, if you want to take out someone early, take out Nancy Pelosi. So, hey, if you're going to kill someone, if you want someone to die, have her die. Why? Because she's your political enemy? I don't love your enemy. Well, it's just a joke. It's just a joke. OK, well, then if we can just joke about people dying and because they're your political enemy and we find that to be here, the people laughing in the background. Well, then why can't you just get up and buy in the pulpit? I don't know. Tell a dirty joke. Why don't we drop a couple of F bombs? I mean, why don't we, I mean, if you, if you can do that, then why don't we just tell you, you blink and die and you blink and die. Here we go. Let's listen to this again. Seeing that girl over at the keyboard on that side. I've never been here when she wasn't at that keyboard. And you know, someday, you know, the seat will be empty and thou shalt be missed. Every one of us, we know this life is only temporary. See, that's so well said. So articulate, so poetic, so beautiful, so powerful, so somber. What a great reminder. One day our seat will be empty. One day we're gonna be missed. Life is not permanent. We're all going to die. What a somber, powerful, well, beautiful. Everything there, the tone, everything is beautiful. And then look what happens. Whenever somebody is taken out a little early like this, I always give the Lord a piece of paper and I said, look, if you want to take out somebody early, start with Nancy Pelosi. I got suggestions here. And everyone's laughing. If you want to take out someone early, take out Nancy Pelosi because, you know, she doesn't have any family. She doesn't have a husband. She's not a human being. No. It's just all a joke. It's all funny. You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, love your enemy, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven. For he maketh his son to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust. For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? Do not even the publicans the same? If you salute your brother only, what do you more than others? Do not even the publicans do? Be ye therefore perfect, even your father which is in heaven is imperfect." Now what does this demonstrate? That once again that even as Christians sometimes even in our joking behind a pulpit, We don't even try to come close to fulfilling that command, meaning nobody ever does. We're all in a perpetual state of sin, which this is just a proof of that. Now, people are going to say, you're just making a big deal out of it. It's a joke. Again, if you're going to say you can joke about, hey, God, if you're going to take someone out, kill Nancy Pelosi, if you find that to be funny, well then, ladies and gentlemen, if someone gets up behind the pulpit and says other things, I mean, okay, let's do this. Lord, let's say that you, now watch how this flips around, because see, most of the people listening are like, I hate Nancy Pelosi too. She's a piece of trash. Yeah, it would be funny if she died. Like many of you will be all supportive of that, but let's flip it around. Let's flip it around, right? Okay. Let's say someone doesn't like John MacArthur's, you know, theology. They hate his theology. Hey, Lord, if you're going to take some people out, how about John MacArthur? How about, and you start, how about Albert Moeller? How about, yeah, and just start naming, how about, you know, just start naming different people? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That is not funny now. How dare you say that? Well, we, well, I'm just joking around. I'm just joking around. How about this person? How about Donald Trump? Lord, if you're going to take anyone out, take out Donald Trump. Oh, no, now it wouldn't be funny. Now nobody would be laughing. Yeah, it's all funny because it's someone you don't like politically. Oh, but if I went after Donald Trump, all the MAGA people would have their red hats and their torches and they would be, you know, storming the Capitol. How about we don't make that joke? I mean, even if you think the joke is appropriate, is that appropriate behind the pulpit? I mean, maybe, or maybe not. And again, if it's, if the joke is acceptable behind the pulpit, I won't even argue with you. Let's say the joke is acceptable. Well, then the same kind of joke can be made about Donald Trump, JD Vance, Elon Musk, anybody on the right, right? Glenn Beck. It can be anybody, anybody on the right. So then, then, then, then, and if you say, well, then that's fine. Okay. Well then, okay. Well, then how much further, how, what, if we can make jokes about people dying or about God taking people we don't like, well then how, what, how about if we throw in a little colorful, colorful language and is it, where is the line? Schumer, uh, but when we get to heaven, nobody, nobody, is gonna say, God, you messed up. Every one of us is gonna say, you are the God that does all things well. Shall not the God of all the earth do right? I was talking to a fellow, he said, I'll tell you, God's got some things to answer to me. I said, really? He said, why did he make mosquitoes? And I said, you know, he's not exactly up there trembling at the thought of you asking him big complex questions like that. He's gonna say because the swallows needed something to eat. And none of us, none of us, we don't live by explanations, we live by faith. And none of us, he doesn't owe any of us an explanation. I yearn for explanations. but boy, we're not in charge of very much. I want to, right, I can do one of two things. I can spend our time looking at the past and reflecting on all the blessings, or I can say, hey, we're here now, and there's still a job to be done, and let's look forward. And it's not that I'm unmindful, but you've spent a couple weeks reminiscing, recalling, paying tributes, and all of that, and appropriately so. And I talked to Brother Bevan's welder, and he told me what a huge blessing this church was to him while he was here. And I know that It means a lot to just see Christians that have a steady hand on the tiller. Hey, this is the direction we're going, and this is what we do, and the work of God is more important than any one of us. And I love that about being here. But today, and tonight, and the next few services, I'm gonna be talking about having a vision for the future. And that's not to be unmindful. I mean, my wife and I married 52 years and we're excited about what the future has for us. Now, things are different than they were 40 years ago. Okay, so it seems like AI may have got its prediction wrong here. Maybe it's some idea about a vision for the future. I did have AI I did have AI analyze and critique the joke. So because I may, maybe I got too, I have human emotion. So maybe I got too emotional, especially after everything that happened yesterday in politics. And in here, some pastor makes some horrible jokes. So maybe some of you thinking I'm way too sensitive. So I had AI analyze it. This is what AI says. The sermon begins with a joke that references a friend getting hit by a truck and then transitions into a comment about missing someone in the congregation. This quickly shifts into a controversial joke about suggesting that God should take out political figures, specifically Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. The structure and intent of the joke. The first part of the setup about a friend getting hit by a truck appears to be a metaphor for a difficult or traumatic event. It creates an expectation of a story about suffering and recovery. Now, I think AI understands it's not a metaphor. I think someone actually got hit by a truck and something tragic occurred. The transition into missing someone in the congregation sets a somber tone, implying loss and grief. The punchline, however, shifts dramatically to a political joke suggesting that if God is going to take someone early, he should start with politicians the speaker disapproves of. The problem with the joke? The joke shifts from what seems to be a reflection on loss to a punchline about wanting political figures to die early. This is an abrupt tonal change that might alienate listeners who were engaged emotionally with the previous sentiment. If the audience is grieving, introducing humor in a way could be seen as insensitive or even crass. The implication that a preacher is offering suggestions to God on who should die raises theological concerns, while humor is often exaggerated. Joking about praying for someone's early death, even in jest, seems at odds with biblical teaching in Matthew 5.44, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you. The joke presents God as someone who takes requests for judgment in a way that it trivializes divine sovereignty and justice. Injecting political humor, especially one that implies a desire for death, risks alienating members of the congregation who may have different political views. Churches often strive to focus on unity in Christ rather than political division, and the stroke could create unnecessary tension. The joke, well, then it goes on to say, it goes on to do a lot more. It says, while humor may have its place in sermons, this particular joke suffers from several issues. It abruptly shifts from serious reflection on loss to politically charged statement. It presents theological and ethical concerns about joking or advising God on whom to judge, and it risks dividing the congregation rather than uniting. Ultimately, the joke weakens the sermon's credibility and distracts from the intended spiritual message. Now, ladies and gentlemen, let's make it very clear. I've been guilty of similar things, all right? Because I tend to use very dark humor in my messages, even in my podcast episodes. Now, typically, my dark humor refers and centers around my death. me dying, right? It may center around how cynical and that, well, we're all going to die or that kind of thing. I hope, and if I ever have, and I've got, what, 4,000 hours just for this podcast alone floating around the internet, if I've ever made a joke about someone dying, all right, well then You know, I apologize, and I was wrong, but I mean, I don't think I have, but I mean, I'm a human being, I'm a sinner. I think the point of all of this is, even as Christians, we don't even obey the Sermon on the Mount behind the pulpit, much less in our hearts and in our lives, which demonstrates what I always say, we're all in a perpetual state of sin. But again, it's just amazing. You can stand behind a pulpit, joke about a human being dying, and it's all wonderful. It's great. But if a pastor does another thing, oh, that's it, remove him from the pulpit, the end. And it's just amazing our subjective, very relativistic way in which we determine what's right or not right. But I guarantee you, if that joke was after Trump or Vance, oh man, or Elon Musk, oh man, liberal, woke, progressive, Satanist, Antichrist, But if we go after that, and what just happened right there is not really that much different than what I hear on Christian radio many times. Specifically when I say Christian radio, American family radio. And I've talked about it so many times, how it demonstrates what a politically hijacked Christianity looks like. All right, so now we transition from that. You see, you talk about distracting from the entire sermon. Yeah, that completely ruins everything, but I'm gonna set that aside because all people make mistakes, all people are human, we're all sinners, all right? Fine. We move past it. Now, he wants to talk something about having a vision for the future. Now, if it's going to be a—now, this is where—just see where this is going to get ready hermeneutically to get all weird. If this is about waters rising out of the temple, and it's gonna go to Ezekiel or any of the passages we've already, that AI predicts we're gonna be covering, what does that have to do with you or I having a vision for the future? Unless he's going to take the water's rising out of the temple and he's gonna connect it to eschatology and then we're gonna have a vision for the future that the Bible lays out. Or what is about to happen right here? And I can beat her in hopscotch now? She's had two knee replacements. The second one they put in backwards. Now she can't walk very well, but she can beat anybody in a circle. Okay, I lied about that. It's not actually even true. But I'm just saying, right, as life goes by, while things are different than they used to was. But that doesn't mean we can't be happy, successful, fulfilled, and joyful, and all of that. And I want to just encourage, as I travel the country, there are churches that are battling through some things, and there are some who've had a pastor fail and now they've gotta get a new pastor or there are those that have had their biggest givers all died and now they're struggling financially and there are churches that I get to that the pastor thought it would be a good idea to change the music and now there's a drum set and electric guitar and there's a church I was in They built a new building and they got a new pastor and he doesn't like old people. And to send a not so subtle message by the new building and by the entrance, they don't have any elderly parking or handicapped parking, he left them all on the other side of the parking lot by the other building. Think that sent a message to the old people? Are you going to tell me churches, where everyone inside those churches are supposed to be new creatures in Christ, old things have passed away, old things have become new, and we basically can be perfect? It's always the weird thing I hear in Christianity. On one hand, I constantly hear this, we've been changed, we've been transformed, we now have the power to say yes to God and no to sin, we can do this, we can do that. And then every story is about, this church, and this church, and this problem, and this problem, and this, and this, and this, and division, and this, and this, and this, and compromise, and this. And I used to preach that way. And then by my way of thinking, because of Lordship Salvation, well, none of those people are saved. None of those people are saved. None of those churches are saved. They're all fraudulent. They're all false. They're all going to hell. But of course, me, I, I was okay because I would downplay my sin and overemphasize my strong points. Okay, well, we can get into that all day. But yeah, the church has been a mess. It's always been a mess. It will always be a mess. And it's funny, though, he can go off. Now he's going to go after what other pastors do. I guess he doesn't see that he just made a joke about people dying. But okay, that's okay. That's okay. That's okay. And again, whenever these pastors tell these stories about other pastors, they never name the pastors or they never name the church. That's always the difficulty, right? On one hand, you want to tell the stories because maybe it will be beneficial or serve as a warning, but if you don't give the information, can I go verify if the story is even true? I've heard lots of people say things about churches And sometimes you may go do a little research and find out when you talk to the pastor, well, that's not quite the way that went down. And then I found out that the people who tell me those stories who come to my church, when they leave my church, then they're telling stories about me. And you're like, well, that's not exactly the way that went down. So it's like, on one hand, I think we do have to explain how things go wrong in churches. And I don't think we always need to give the name. I think that's sometimes wrong, right? But at the same time, I guess the good thing is if you don't give the name, then the other churches are not hurt, right? But by not giving the name, then I'm just supposed to take that what you're saying is accurate. Is there a church out there who took away all handicapped parking or didn't take it all away? It just left it at the other building and not at the new building. So the new building has no handicapped parking, no parking, quote unquote, for elderly people with some type of physical problems. Is that even legal? Now, it depends on probably the city or the state. Are there some zoning and coding or codes and things you have to, I don't even know how that would even work. Okay, so, I don't even know. So, but okay, all right. So, I don't know what any of this has to do with water coming out of a temple, but we're just gonna wait and see. You're the past. These are the future. Get off the scene. We want to focus on these. Get out of the way. We're going to do this. Listen, listen. I wonder why that happens in churches. I wonder why there's a tendency in some churches to say, all right, guys, look, we got to move. We got to focus on the future. We got to focus on the young couples. We got to focus on the singles. We got to focus on that age group. I wonder why that happens in churches. Let me see. Oh, because church is a business and they need money and they have to secure their future. If you've got a congregation that's 60 or 70, what's going to happen over the next 5 to 10 years? Slowly but surely, they're going to pass away. Well, as they pass away, you lose their giving. You lose them giving. And not only that, when people become 60 or 70, guess what happens? I mean, this is just the truth of a church. There goes your volunteers. They're not going to be helping with anything because they're getting older. They're not going to be possibly supporting your podcast or your apps. They're not going to be involved in any of that. They may then start attending less services because as they get older, they're not going to be there for maybe Sunday school, Sunday morning. So they're not as present. They're not involved. They're not being able maybe even their income has changed and they're not even able to give much, and you know that the time is coming, you know, at least within 10 years, they're probably gone. All right, well, as a business, and you say, well, a church shouldn't think as a business. It's easy for you to say, it's easy for you to sit there on your couch with your Bible in your hand going, churches should not think as a business. They are a ministry. How dare they? Easy for you to say, the people who work there are like, hmm, My entire paycheck is dependent on what happens in church. Oh, we got to pay the bill. Maybe we're still paying a mortgage on this building. Oh, we got this, and we got this to support, and we got this, and we got this. And if we don't find a way, then we're going to be broke. So we got to find a way to bring in new people, young couples, Those who are moving up in their careers that may, one, they have energy, they're young, maybe they'll show up to all the services. Maybe they will be involved in what we're doing online. Maybe they'll be much more likely to bring more people in because they're active among their peer group and at work where they're not retired sitting at home. So they may bring in more people. Okay. And so you start thinking that way. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying I can understand it, because whether we like it or not, the church is a business. Do I need to go back and show you how much it takes to run an average-sized church? The budget? We went through all of the numbers. It's sad when that happens. Let me make it very clear. I'm not saying it's, you gotta, ministry would not worry about the money. Ministry, but yet so much of the church, as much as we wanna say it's ministry, I mean, it's an industry, it's money. It's like we gotta bring in this much, this much goes up. How much does it, again, I keep telling you guys to do this. Find out how much it costs yearly just to keep your church open. And what are you getting from that? Well, guess what? Once you see how much it takes, then look at the average age of your congregation. How many of those are going to be present in 10 years? Well, then what happens to your money? As they've gotten older, do they show up as many services? Are they volunteering? In many cases, their involvement, engagement has dropped, only because of their health and because of their age. It makes perfect sense. So then what do you do? You've got to then bring in... No, I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's the reality of having buildings and programs and staff that cost a certain amount of money per year, or something's going to be in trouble. that only works until the next new guy in town has bigger balloons, bigger kites, bigger bicycles, bigger giveaways, bigger smoke machines, more flashing lights, a better band, and a better drummer. You cannot build a church on social issues. It's got to be on the Bible, staying true to the things you know that are right, having respect for all that's brought us here. And so it's with that in mind, and I want to read just one verse of Ezekiel 47, and then we'll get into this today. Okay, Ezekiel 47, okay, remember what AI predicted, that the text will be, primarily the text will be Ezekiel 47, one through 12. He's only gonna read one verse. He's only gonna read one verse. Oh boy, okay, this is already... All right, let's go to Ezekiel. Oh, here we go. Oh man, when someone's going to go to a passage like Isaiah or Ezekiel, pretty much anywhere in the Old Testament, we're like, I'm only going to read one verse. I have a hermeneutical disaster is fast approaching. At that point, if I'm sitting in the congregation, what I want to do is, if I had one of those tornado warning sirens, I mean, I don't even know what that is. I can't make the right sound. Okay, but start making an alarm sound because it's to me that's telling me, we have a hermeneutical disaster fast approaching. Hermeneutical disaster fast. I could be wrong, but that's what I feel when I'm like, we're going to go to Ezekiel and read one verse. Okay. All right. And then we're going to have a sermon. All right. All right. Here we go. What was that sound? I don't even sound like a wolf dying. I don't know what that was. Okay, I should not... Note to self, load sounds into my studio software so that I can play an actual air warnings, an air raid siren or a tornado warning siren. Okay, here we go. I'll let you stay seated. Ezekiel 47, one. Afterward, he brought me again under the door of the house and behold waters issued out from under the threshold of the door eastward for the forefront of the house stood toward the east and the waters came down from under the right side of the house at the south side of the altar. Lord bless our time in the scriptures. Bless our day today in Jesus name, amen. So, What's actually going on? The children of Israel, God's chosen people, blessed and supernaturally blessed. But boy, God brings them into the land of Canaan. He says, I'm going to give you seed and land, seed and land. You're gonna have a perpetual seed, a king on the throne. I'm gonna give you houses you didn't build, and vineyards you didn't plant, and houses that you didn't make, and I'm gonna let you live in the land of Canaan. I'm gonna kick out the Girgashites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, and all the Ite boys. I'm kicking them out because they're pagan, because they're worshiping idols, because they're sacrificing their babies to Molech, because they're abject pagans, and I'm gonna get them out, and I'm gonna give you an inheritance. And he says, but I'm no respecter of persons. If you sin the way they sinned, then I'm gonna kick you out too. I'm not gonna put up with that. That's brought my judgment once, it'll bring my judgment again. Don't think you're any special anything. And so sure enough, The children of Israel, they're lusting after, why can't we have the leeks and garlics of Egypt? And they complain, how come we have to just eat manna? And so he gives them quail to come out their nostrils. And then, hey, you probably brought us out here to die in the wilderness. And God brings them into the promised land. And sure enough, they're in there. And he said, now listen, don't number to yourself horses and trust in your own strength. I'm not gonna put up with that. And whatever you do, don't marry outlandish women. You're the chosen seed and the bloodline of the future Messiah. Don't you go marrying all those pagan women because they'll lead your hearts away and you'll start offering sacrifices to Baal. And whatever you do, don't sin the way they sin. Well, of course, by the time you get, they're in there for a while, and now they're lusting after evil things, and they're worshiping Baal, and they're sacrificing their babies to Molech, and they've married all these pagan women, and they're building idols for their gods, and God says, okay, bang, bang, bang, bang. The Assyrians are gonna come, the Babylonians are gonna come, the Chaldeans are gonna come. And when the King of Babylon comes, you may as well surrender to resist his feudal. I've already pronounced judgment, you're going into bondage. And so they got mad at Ezekiel and Jeremiah and, hey, hey, you can't tell us not to resist. And they said, look, The time has passed. You guys did what you did. You got this coming. You're getting spanked. It's over. Hey, I got, I got nothing but respect here, right? I mean, the beginning of this has been a disaster, but this is, he's giving at least the overview, the historical overview. He's providing some context. So I, look, that's better than some of the pastors have done in Isaiah 40 to 55, right? They may, their little historical overview is about three seconds and immediately it's us, us, us, us, us. He read the text and immediately went to about Israel. So I got, He hasn't even mentioned us yet in all of this. He's been talking about them. Now, I would just once again point out, just for theological consistency and to make this point over and over and over since others don't, this entire story of Israel's failure, failure, failure, failure, failure is not there to demonstrate that we need to do better because the issue is, why did they fail? Because they were still sinners. Guess what? We still fail because whether we're Israel, whether we're the church, it doesn't matter. We cannot keep God's law. We will always be in a perpetual state of failure. So what is the solution? To do better? Try harder? Well, nobody's ever going to do it. Israel didn't do it in all of their time. The church hasn't done it in 2,000 years. He's already talked about all the problems in churches. Nobody obeys. So what's the solution? Faith in Christ imputed righteousness, imputed righteousness to declare us to be that which we are not in practice, okay? But, so, I love the fact that he's at least giving the history. Now, what is he going to do then with Ezekiel 47, 1? If he's only going to read one verse, I'm a little nervous. Let's find out. If you resist, they're gonna lay siege to Jerusalem, and you're gonna be eating your children, and you're gonna be eating dung, and you're gonna regret this. You may as well just surrender. So they put Jeremiah in prison. Hey, why would you talk like that? But boy, it got tough, and pretty soon, they're eating their children. And I'm saying it's a warning, God still judges sin. But during Ezekiel's time of prophesying, in chapter three, he says, hey, hey, look, son of man, I've set you as a watchman. And if you don't warn them, They're gonna die in their sin, but I'm gonna require their blood at your hand. You were set as a watchman to warn them. You get to chapter 33, and he says, son of man, look, I've set you a watchman to the house of Israel, and I want you to preach it straight to them. And if you don't, hey, they're still gonna pay for their sin, but I'm gonna require their blood at your hands. And it kind of sends a message, God still judges sin, but he still has his remnant to stand for the truth. And whether it's popular or not, whether it's received or not doesn't matter. We have a responsibility to be a watchman. And so when you get to chapter 47, What's actually happened in the book of Ezekiel is this has been bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, and bad. And here's a ribbon of hope. It doesn't have to be this way. It's not forever gonna be this way. This is regrettable. This is the future. God's still God. There's still some wonderful things that are gonna happen. And then we have what's actually happening here is the prophecy of the millennial kingdom and how God's gonna restore Israel. Oh, wait, now he's acknowledging this is dealing with the millennial kingdom, and that God's gonna restore Israel. Now, I got no problem accepting that, right? How is Israel going to stop doing all of these things? Well, then you go to the promise of the new covenant, where God promises them he's gonna give Israel a new heart. And what's gonna be the result of their new heart? They are no longer gonna walk in idolatry. They're going to obey. Well, that's never occurred, never has occurred, it's going to occur. And then because then what happens when they get their new heart? Then they get the land. So that all has to be future unless you spiritualize all of it. So I love the fact that he's admitting this, but I have a strong feeling that this is getting ready to radically change and become about us. I have a strong, even though he's acknowledging what it's actually about, he's going to then make it about something that he's already acknowledged it's not about, which is the height. That even makes the hermeneutical error even worse. If you say, this passage is actually about this, but I'm going to make it about this. I have no textual basis for doing so, but it will make for a good sermon. That's a problem. I think that's where this is about to go. and how God still has a place for his chosen people. And I'm just kind of remarking here today when we waltz into chapter 47, one chapter away from the end of Ezekiel, and I just feel kind of like, Sorry for Ezekiel, what kind of a message? You guys are getting spanked and you had it coming. And if you think it's bad now, it's gonna get worse tomorrow. And boy, don't cry now, you guys were warned, you were told, you were told. And now look, this is what happens, this is what happens. And I'm saying, that's pretty tough plowing when you got that kind of message to preach. But what a blessing to get to the end and say, now, God's still got a plan and Israel's gonna flourish like a vine and God's gonna bless the nation again and still use you. And so all through the Bible, there are these stern warnings, stern warnings, stern warnings, proclamations of judgment on sin and all of that. But all through it, there's these ribbons of blessings Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel. It never just leaves you high and dry. It never leaves you hopeless and despairing. It's always, hey, God's still on the throne. God's still on the throne. And so I love that part of the Bible that kind of bolsters us. It's stern warnings, but it's, hey, Let's keep our eyes on the Lord. Let's not lose hope or lose sight of what's actually going on in the big picture. God's still on the throne. He's still got his shingle out. He's still in the God business. And we can come to him as a living stone. He's still doing what God does. And so it's with that in mind, we get to this Ezekiel 47 passage. And just the first 10 verses, and it says, verse one, afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house. So this is after all the prophesying. And behold, waters issue out from under the threshold of the house eastwards. This is the temple that God's showing him. and toward the east, and the waters came down from under the right side of the house at the south side of the altar, then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward. And behold, there ran out waters on the right side." So he's showing him, takes him around the house, and then says, look at what's coming out from under that door. So here comes this water out from under the door of the temple. Now watch, and when the man that had the line in his hand, verse three, went forth eastward, he measured 1,000 cubits, and he brought me through the waters, and the waters were to the ankles. Again, he measured 1,000 and brought me through the waters, the waters were to the knees. Again, he measured 1,000 and brought me through, the waters were to the loins. Afterward he measured a thousand, and it was a river that I could not pass over, for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over. And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on one side and on the other, then said he unto me these waters issue out of the east outward the out toward the east country and go down into the desert and go into the sea which being brought forth into the sea the water shall be healed and it shall come to pass that everything that liveth which moveth with us whoever the river shall come shall live and there shall be a very great multitude of fish because these waters shall come thither for they shall be healed and everything shall live whither the river cometh. This is an amazing prophecy. And this is obviously, God's doing big things, big things, big things, a lot bigger than what Ezekiel could see. And God shows him, he says, look, I want you to see something. This is gonna start out a trickle, and then it's gonna be to the shoe tops, and then it's gonna be the ankles, and it's gonna be up to the knees, then it's gonna be up to the loins, then it's gonna be a river so big that nobody can walk over it. He's saying God's got a plan. There's something big. And that river, everywhere it goes, everything that's by it, it's gonna give life to it. And this is, it's a prophecy of what God's gonna do in the millennial kingdom in eternity. It's a wonderful, wonderful promise. The Mississippi River, starts up in Minnesota. There's a little pond. They went up, up, up, up, up the Mississippi, and they explored and explored, and here's a little tributary, here's a creek, here's a tributary. But what creek, what tributary, what town could claim this is the headwaters? And finally, they came to what they call Lake Itasca, which is about the size of this building. And there's a couple little creeks that lead into it. But that Lake Itasca has a little stream that comes out of it. And that's the headwaters of the Mississippi. I have walked across the Mississippi River. Now, it was only 20 feet wide. And it was only ankle deep. But I walked across, me personally, somebody you know, walked across the Mississippi River. But just shortly, the St. Croix comes in. And then the Wisconsin River comes in. Wow. Okay. Obviously now this is all, I mean, he's at least acknowledged the millennial aspects of this, how it's connected to eschatology. Great. Now all of this about the Mississippi River. Okay. He's obviously going to make a point. Where is this going? Where is this going? Again, I'm not going to make my warning siren sound, but hermeneutical errors are, I feel like the storm clouds are building. and the Black River comes in, and the La Crosse River comes in, and it goes 2,350 miles. It drains water from 32 of our 50 states. The Missouri comes in there by St. Louis, and it doubles in size all the water from the Rocky Mountains. A little later, it's Southern Illinois down toward Memphis. Here comes the Tennessee River, the Cumberland River, the Ohio River flow together. And they add, you get down to the lower Mississippi and here comes the Arkansas River. It starts up in Pueblo, Colorado and it comes through and it comes flooding in. And then there's another red river that comes in down out of Texas. And by the time you get to St. Louis, it's a mile across. And by the time you get down to the Delta, it's two miles across. By the time it spills into the Gulf of Mexico, why, it's putting millions of gallons of water out into the Gulf. But it started up there in Lake Itasca. And I'm saying all that because God has a way. Well, he's saying all of that. I will say that's impressive. He knows the names of all of that and the locations of all of that. I mean, come on. I'd have to be reading that from a piece of paper. So I got nothing, but that's great. Now he's saying all of that because God has... All right, now he's going to connect us to God somehow. Here we go. Of taking meager beginnings and making something pretty mighty out of them. So he's gonna connect us to God has a way of taking meager beginnings and making something mighty out of them. Okay, all right. So I got saved, and Pastor Nelson led me to Christ. And our church had 30 people at the time, and I think one set of teeth in the congregation. And boy, we're just a handful of people. There were two widow ladies, Mrs. Moore and Mrs. Walt, and they were praying that God would give a Baptist church on the south side of Oshkosh, a town of 50,000. And so here comes Doug Kasten and Howard Nelson, they had graduated from BBC, and they're gonna start a church with these two ladies. After just a couple years, Doug Cashton's wife left him and Pastor Nelson got the church and he's pastoring in 1969 is when I got saved. And there's a handful of people, but Pastor Nelson is one of these unusual people. And so he would stand up and preach You know, I believe God wants us to reach the world. Go ye therefore and preach the gospel to the whole world. And so I think right here from Oshkosh, we need to be reaching the world. The text was Ezekiel 47.1. I don't know why we're talking about a church all of a sudden, and if we're going to talk about this started in a meager way but turned it into something mighty, I can think of churches that you would probably consider completely fraudulent and false. Didn't Mars Hill with Mark Driscoll begin with like a Bible study? remember correctly, there's a lot of churches that you would consider absolutely heretical. Just because something starts small and turns big does not necessarily mean it's God. Could something be big and go small and actually be a work of God? Is the work of God always determined by the size, by how big it gets, and how many people show up? I thought you said we don't judge things by numbers. And what does this have to do with Ezekiel 47? I have no clue. And I'm looking and that person doesn't have two nickels to rub together. And that person's a refugee from the salvage yard. And that person was broke 10 years ago. They don't have nothing. They don't have nothing. They don't have nothing. This is pretty paltry to start reaching the world with this. And he'd say, I could see the day that we're printing Bibles and sending them all over the world. I could see the day we're sending mysteries all over the world. I could see the day where we have our own airplane. And I'm going, I wish we could even have toilet paper in the bathroom. It's a truth. It's the truth. He'd live next door in the parsonage, and if there's no toilet paper in the church bathroom, they'd go over to his house and get a roll of toilet paper and bring it over. So if God's gonna step in and turn this little small rinky-dink thing, I'm using the word rinky-dink, meager thing, small thing, and turns it into something mighty because of God's power and God's working, wouldn't it have been great if God would have stepped in and done some mighty work to save the marriage of one of the pastors whose wife left him? I mean, just a thought. We were so poor we couldn't pay attention. A pickpocket got around us and got nothing but practice. And Pastor Nelson has a plaque behind his desk. Here's his desk, here's his wall, and here's a plaque. Attempt something so big that unless God intervenes, it's bound to fail. Every time I go in his office, that's his model. Attempt something so big that unless God intervenes, it's bound to fail. Like he had somehow trapped God or something. I can't tell you the dozens of things he tried that failed. And he was one of those inveterate optimists, and hey, now we know what doesn't work, we're not gonna try that again. And he tried something else and tried something else. And anybody that seemed to have a good idea, hey, let's try that, maybe that'll work. But well, that went up in flames, that died, that didn't work. And I'm saying, there's something about a man that refuses to be defeated. We had an exceptionally cold day Sunday coming up, and Pastor Nelson says, Randy, the bus, we called it, it was painted brown and white, he called it the chocolate bus, plug the chocolate bus into that outlet in back of the church, and it's got a heater in the block, and we'll be able to start it. It's supposed to be 20 below zero on Sunday. Just plug that in. Well, little did I know that the circuit that fed that outlet was also the circuit that fed the baptistry heater, just like if you had an outlet over on this wall. And they had turned the breaker off to the baptistry heater so it didn't burn out when there was no water in the baptistry. And so consequently, the outlet had no electricity. So we got there, and it is cold. It is cold. The bus is cold. You turn the key, nothing. I go in his office, he's in his study trying to find a sermon, and I say, hey, the bus don't start. There was no electricity to the breaker. Huh, well, we'll have to figure out what happened there. He looks, oh, the breaker was off. Well, good time to find out now. Oh, don't worry, I'm from northern Minnesota. We know how to handle these things. You run out to the bus garage and get the jug of gasoline. I go out, I get the jug of gasoline. He's got, out of the kitchen, a nine by 11 cake pan. Nine by 13, whatever. And he says, we do this all the time up in Northern Minnesota. We just put some gas in a cake pan, and we set a match to it, and we slide it under the pan, and that'll warm up that oil in the pan, and then we can start it. I'm trying to follow how this fits to Ezekiel 47 or Israel and their history. I don't know what to say here, ladies. Okay, let's just continue. Sounded like a good idea at the time. We slide that under, this thing is... But this is a splash and splatter six-cylinder engine that was covered with grease from the factory. And the oil on the outside of the engine starts to catch fire. And now that engine block is on fire. And now, now all the wiring harnesses on fire and the distributor cap is on fire. The hoses that go to the radiator are on fire and the heater core is on fire. Now the two front tires start on fire and the whole front end of the bus is going up in a sheet of flames and is this far from the church building. and he incinerates the chocolate bus. And he looks at me with a grin and he says, well, we won't be using that today. I mean, the story is hilarious, right? I mean, I'm laughing. I'm smiling, right? I mean, it's hilarious. I mean, that's a funny story, right? So on one hand, it's like, oh, that's great. I'm laughing. So like, OK, that's good. That gives me a good sense. But at the same time, I'm just thinking, why did we review this? Why? What? I say, I thought waters rising out of the temple, all this will be, you know, we'll get into a hermeneutical discussion about how to handle Ezekiel 47, because that's where I figured we would go, right? I can't offer any hermeneutical discussion here. I can't even offer a theological discussion here. I can't offer any interpretive discussion here, because I don't know what is even happening right now. Yeah, and never again. They won't even tow this stinking thing off of here, this carcass. Well, maybe you can call some people and have them pick up the kids in their cars, which I did. And I'm saying it wasn't that we didn't have problems. Do you understand? Hey, it isn't like everything, but don't you know? God had a way of people would get saved, and people would surrender to the ministry, and hey, why don't we start supporting this missionary? So he says, any man of God that comes through here, we're gonna give him $200 if they don't preach. We at least wanna get him out of town so they can get to the next place. So if a man of God comes through here, we're gonna give him $200. Then he says, hey, there has to be a premium on the man of God. God will bless us if we bless preachers. And so they set a minimum of what they'd give to any guest preacher. And then it was, hey, let's support missionaries. And a missionary had come through and, hey, we'll change the oil in your van. Hey, we'll help you with this and that. But there's something about you get what you honor. when you honor men of God, when you honor the ministry, all of a sudden the young people say, hey, it'd be wonderful to be in the ministry, it'd be wonderful to walk by faith, it'd be wonderful to see the God of all the universe provide for me too. And one by one, different ones surrendered to the ministry, one by one, different ones launched into ministries. Now, can you imagine, I can see the day that we have our own print shop and print the Bibles. And now, this last year, we printed Bibles in 28 different languages. I can see the day that the building's paid for. We build the building and burn the mortgage and Pastor Nelson gets to see it. I can see the day that our elderly all come in and put Bibles together. Why should they sit in a nursing home and knit macrame necklaces and all that stuff and potholders? Why don't they come do something for God in their latter years? I'm saying he had vision for what could be done I have no idea what this has to do with Ezekiel 47. I, I, I, I, I mean, at some point I got to wrap this up, but I, I don't know what to say. And he was not distracted by the facts. We didn't have the capacity to do this stuff, but now we have an airplane hanger, and now we have several airplanes, and now we have repair crews going out and fixing airplanes in Cameroon, and Alaska, and Peru, and now we have young guys surrendering to mission aviation training, and all of this, all of this. from a pastor that says, attempt something so big that unless God intervenes, it's bound to fail. And me, I have to admit, I'm the ultimate cynic. He was the vision guy, I was the detail guy. Well, what are we gonna, we're at camp. We're playing a game at camp. We got this great big ball. We're gonna have capture the flag or whatever it is. And boy, we have five guys from this team and five guys from that team run at this six foot ball and these guys get there early and these guys are caught mid stride and they go, flying, broken arms, broken clavicle, broken jaw. And then he says, Randy, did you get insurance for this week of camp or not? Well, actually, no, no, nobody got insurance. Well, then we're probably, the doctors won't treat these kids here at the clinic. We're gonna, do you have records of their parents' phone number? There was no cell phones. And I'm saying a lot of times vision guys aren't detail guys. But I'm saying to you, I believe this. Last year, last year, we went through three and a half million dollars for missions from that group of people that couldn't afford to go to the dentist. and I'm saying God has a way. When I read this, hey, hey, God, what starts out as a trickle, God can bless, God can multiply. Literally, Ezekiel 47 has nothing to do with what he's talking about, literally has nothing to do with what he's talking, zero to what he's talking about. We're going to wrap this up here in a second. and then it can give life to wherever it goes. And it won't have to be on that scale or the same things, but God will honor your faithful preaching, your support of missionaries, your encouraging young people to go toward ministry. You watch how God blesses and multiplies and increases your faith. I've watched it my whole Christian life. It's like, Can you believe that God lets us do this? Can you imagine what God's done in our midst? There's something about letting God be God, and instead of hindering, instead of doubting, just saying, Lord, hey, the future could be as bright as the promises of God. I believe you can bless and multiply I know we're facing challenges in the culture. I'm not trusting the Republicans. I know, look, I'm glad Donald Trump got elected. I'm glad more people voted conservative. But don't you ever forget, the pendulum in this country goes conservative for a little bit, then it goes liberal for a little bit, then it goes conservative for a little bit. But every time it goes conservative, it's a little less conservative. And every time it goes liberal, it goes more liberal. And we have the inauguration, and we have the village people, a well-known homosexual band. And the YMCA is us gay guys going after young men. And that's the song. Oh, we got a broader tent. But don't think for a minute that it didn't take compromise to get everybody in. Wait, is he claiming that the YMCA is about grooming young men for homosexuality? Now I had A.I. immediately look this up and A.I. said the claim about the YMCA song is about grooming young men for homosexuality is factually incorrect. It was originally about a social club and later interpretations are not relevant to biblical exegesis. And wasn't there a big controversy about the song? And then what didn't the, I think maybe the leader of the YMCA said, that's not what the song is about. It's been misinterpreted that way forever, and people have interpreted it that way. So is he now just giving completely factual error here, a complete wrong information from the Pope? I mean, that never happens in Christianity, never. And I don't even know what's going on in Ezekiel 47. So ladies and gentlemen, we're just gonna stop right there. Oh, man. I could take this all apart. I could rip this all apart hermeneutically, but there's no point in ripping it apart hermeneutically because we didn't get anything to even talk about hermeneutically. I mean, this is not what Ezekiel 47 is about in any way, shape, or form. It's not about you. It's not about the Church. sermons. All right. I don't know what to say. Another sermon review that turns into a total and complete... Look, you draw your own conclusion on what you think. I don't know what to say. Thanks for listening. Everyone have a better Saturday than this? Man. So March is not starting off any better than February ended when it comes to sermon reviews. Man, I I don't. I don't. I don't. I do. God bless.