Someone else stopping? I'm with this lady, I think I'll move my car so they can get in. Oh no, no, don't worry about that, that's fine. When it's time for them to stop, they'll park somewhere. Hi there. How are you? Good, how are you? My name's Tony. Shawna. Shawna, hi Shawna. Nice to meet you. This is Kevin. That's Gary over there. So what is your message? Well, it's the good news of the gospel. Do you have any particular spiritual beliefs, Shauna? I'm spiritual. Uh-huh. I don't know, I've just, I don't, this is gonna sound weird. That's okay, I talk to lots of people, so. I've just had a bunch of strange experiences lately. Yeah. And I don't know, I'm just supposed, I was told to just keep looking for the signs, so. Huh, and so you came by and you saw some signs. Right. How long has that been going on? Just kind of recently, quite a bit. So when you say you're spiritual, how do you define that? I don't know. Okay, good. So this is an interrogation. I just met Shauna, so I'm just asking questions. I'm not religious. I do believe in God. I don't know. I just feel like I was kind of directed here. Well, you know what, I believe that because everything happens according to God's providence, right? That we decided to come out here this morning, that you decided to drive by and stop. You made that decision, we made that decision, but God directs all of it. Right. And that's kind of how I've been feeling lately. I feel like I'm just doing what I'm told. Okay, alright. So Shana, let me ask you this. If you were to die today, and I don't want that, But if you were to die today and you stood before God and God said, Shauna, why should I allow you into heaven? What would you say? Because I'm a good person. Because you're a good person. Okay. How good do you think you have to be to qualify? I just think that you have to have good intentions. Okay. Alright. And be, you know, remorseful persons. Okay. So Jesus said this. He said, you are to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. Now, I'm 60, I haven't lived a perfect day in my life, but yet that's God's standard of goodness is moral perfection, because he is. God defines the terms. God determines what is good and what is not, and only God is good, according to God's standard. So, if our hope is in being a good person, then all we have to do to measure up is live a perfect life from cradle to grave and thoughtward indeed. I don't think that defines a good person. I think it all matters in your... I guess because I look at it like God would be able to see what your... Your heart? Yeah, what's in your heart. So what God has said about the human heart is that it's desperately sick and wicked who can know it, right? Look, I have Shauna standing here in front of me, and if I was put in a room and I had Shauna, Osama Bin Laden, and Hitler, and I said, I have to pick a friend, well, I'm gonna pick Shauna, right? So compared to others, we can all see that we're relatively good. We could say that, look, nobody's perfect. That person's better than us. that that well okay but but but when we we define goodness based on what we see in the mirror God defines goodness based on his own character right with his character which is which is perfect okay all right so so the Bible says that God is holy And no sin can be in His presence at all. So the only way we can be in the presence of God is if we are sinless. Right. And none of us are. Right. So you have to pay your debts before you get in. Well, you can never pay the debt. Let me explain it this way. So let's say, Shauna, instead of pulling over to have this nice conversation, you decided you're going to park your car here behind this block wall so that you can go over and rob the shell station. I don't think you'd ever do that. Just painting a picture. You go over there and you rob the shell station and you're no good at it. You get caught and you're arrested and you feel remorse. You mentioned being remorseful for the things we do. You feel remorse. No one coerces you or makes you any false promises. You say, Hey look, I want to write out my confession. And so you do. confession never show someone's innocence but only their guilt. It's the best piece of evidence against them, right? And so, I mean, it's an open and shut case, basically, and you've shut it, but yet you're entitled to your day in court. So you go before a judge, you have your trial, the judge, of course, finds you guilty. It's a day of sentencing, and the judge says, Shawna, what do you have to say for yourself? And you say, Your Honor, I'm remorseful for what I did. I don't know why I did it. I shouldn't have ever done it. I didn't do it. But other than that, I'm a pretty good person, and I think you ought to let me go. Is the judge going to let you go? No. No. Or as he should. Right. Right. Because a good judge has to follow the law. Right. If you and I went over there and committed that crime together, and we both ask for him to just let us go, and he lets you go, but sentences me, that's arbitrary. He's not a good judge. Right. He's got to follow the law. Right. So he finds you guilty, and The other good things you've done don't help you. Your confession only sealed your fate. So then the judge pulls out your criminal history. Now, before God, we all have a criminal history. We've lied or stolen or taken his name in vain or sexual immorality, whatever it might be. From our earliest memory, the first word we learned probably was no. And our parents didn't sit us on their knee and say, now, Tony, I want to teach you how to disrespect me. I want to teach you how to back talk. So let's practice the word no. No, it's in our nature. So we've been sinning all our lives. So before God, we have a pretty long criminal history. All right, so back to the courtroom. The judge rolls out this criminal history. At the top of it is this last crime. And the judge says, Shauna, not only can I not let you go, but I sentence you to death. They're gonna take you to the next room and they're going to strap you to a gurney and drive a needle in your arm and they're going to end your life. But before that happens, the judge who found you guilty, the judge who alone had the authority to impose that sentence, steps down from behind his bench, he takes off those black robes of authority, he walks over to you and says, Shawna, you are guilty by your own admission, and the good things you've done didn't help you during the trial or the sentencing. And I alone have the authority to impose that sentence and I'm going to take your place. And the judge goes into the next room, allows himself to be strapped to a gurney with your name on it, allows the needle to be driven into his arm with your name on it, and he dies the death that you were supposed to die. Not because you're good, not because you're innocent, not because you asked for leniency, But for no other reason than that God chose to extend grace, mercy, and love to you, a lawbreaker. Yeah. What would you think of that, Judge? That I own my life. Okay. So let's see how that holds up. Okay. Because that is a picture, Shauna, of what God actually did. God the Father sent his Son to earth in the person of Jesus Christ, truly God, truly man, without sin. He lived a life of perfection for some 33 years that the three of us can't live for 33 seconds. Yet even though he was sinless, even though he was God in the flesh, he voluntarily went to a Roman cross, suffered and died a horrific bloody death he did not deserve to take upon himself the punishment that Kevin and Tony and Shauna rightly deserve for all of our sins against him. And then unlike every false god created in the imaginations of men, Jesus Christ rose from the dead three days later, 40 days after that ascended back into heaven where he now rules and reigns. And what God commands of all people everywhere, including Shauna, is by faith receive that gift to turn from your sin. It's called repentance. More than remorse. Remorse is just, I feel bad for what I did. And usually when we feel bad for what I did, there might be something in there for the person we did it to. But more often than not, a lot of it is because we just don't want to face the consequences. So I really wish I didn't do that. Repentance is turning from what we did and who we were, and by faith, turning toward God and receiving Jesus Christ as our Lord and our Savior. And if God does that work in you, when you die and stand before him, you won't say, let me in, I'm a good person. Well, I think that's, I guess, maybe that's kind of where I'm at. Okay, what does that, what do you mean? Kind of feeling like I'm, I don't know, Maybe I don't know. I feel like I kind of a calling. I like I'm supposed to serve a purpose service like I'm supposed to be providing. Service, I don't know what that is. And I don't know if that's just serving God or if it's serving people or if it's. I don't know so well. It begins. Oh, maybe. Yeah, maybe. And I certainly can't say to what extent that's true or not true. I don't know. God doesn't tell me what he plans for Shauna. Right. Right. What I do know, though, that the first step in that is coming to the end of yourself. Right. Are you talking about your ego? Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I guess ego, but but meaning that realize that that you're not good according to God's standards, like the rest of us. That you're not good. And that if you were to die and stand before God and he gave you what you rightly deserve, it wouldn't be heaven. It would be eternity in hell because he's good. Because he's a good, just, and holy God. Right? And coming to the knowledge of that sin and who you are actually before a thrice holy God Realizing your need for forgiveness. Realizing your need for a savior. Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me. And just like a good judge doesn't negotiate with a convicted criminal, a good God doesn't negotiate with a sinner. That's kind of going against kind of like what, not going against, Shana, actually, it goes against everything the world would tell you. Well, no, I'm actually going, not necessarily that, just kind of what, I don't even know what I've been going through lately. It's more of like, I'm in a situation to where I don't, where I feel like God felt like I needed to be protected from the situation around me. Do you know who you ultimately need to be protected from? Evil? God. I am so not following. Yeah. I'm so confused right now. It's okay. It's alright. It's okay. For those who are outside of Christ, For those who have not received Jesus Christ as their Lord and their Savior, the Bible says the wrath of God, the fierce anger of God abides on them. And the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Why should you fear Him? Why? Because he's holy, he's just, he's good. We're none of those things. Because your eternity is in the palm of his hands. Well, I would think facing the wrath of God and the anger of God and spending eternity in hell would be a fearful thing. Okay, but but but but the good news of the gospel Shauna is that that doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be that way It doesn't have to be that way If you turn from your sin and put your trust in Christ alone for your salvation, He will forgive your sin, you'll be reconciled to the God you've offended by your sin, and you'll have the assurance of eternal life, not because you're good, but because... But shouldn't I assume that He would forgive my sin? I mean, do I? Like, I guess, what does someone have to do to make sure that that's what happens? put their faith and their trust in Christ alone for their salvation. Oh, right. Well, I do do that. So I guess... Like I said, I do believe in... I believe in God and His word. Okay. That word also says the demons believe and tremble. Meaning? Satan knows exactly who God is, who Jesus is, and what he came to do. He's not going to spend a moment in heaven because he knows those things. The Bible says that you need to believe in your heart. that Jesus Christ is Lord and confess with your mouth that God has raised him from the dead and you will be saved. You must believe in your heart. That's more than just being spiritual. That's more than just a generic belief in God. That is receiving the gift of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ. Okay Okay, so but but the but the right I won't say the right definition but Well, but God has so God has Yeah, I guess that's not a matter of opinion, but I guess belief, you know. Well, right, and if you believe His Word, His Word has said that. Right, and I do believe His Word. And Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me. In Romans chapter 3, it says there is no one who is good. No, not one. You know, we're saying the same thing. I don't know. I don't know. The only difference is, the initial question is, if you stood before God, if you were to die today and you stood before God, what did you say? Why should you let you into heaven? Because you're a good person. Okay, so what are you looking for? Well, your answer was because you're a good person. Right. But you're not. According to God's standard, like the rest of us. Okay, so... So that won't help you. What would your answer be? So if it was reversed, you're standing out here, I stopped and you said, Tony, if God asked why would he allow you into heaven, what would you say? I would say, God, you shouldn't. I've broken your law every day of my life with my mouth, with my thoughts, with my actions. And you're good and you're holy and I'm not. And if you give me what I deserve, I'm going to spend eternity in hell because I'm not good. but I know you're going to let me in, not on the basis of anything I've done to earn or deserve it, but because of what your son Jesus Christ did on the cross for me. Because he died for my sins, and I know you keep your promises and your word is true. Your word tells me that if I will put my faith and my trust in your son alone, for my salvation, you will forgive my sin and you will grant me everlasting life. And so that's why I know you're gonna let me into heaven. Not because of who I am, but in spite of who I am. Not because of what I've done, but in spite of what I've done. So do you feel like he should let you in because someone else has paid your debt? Yes, that's exactly what Jesus did. Well, let me show you something. Here you go. Great, I don't have one. Well, we will gladly give you one. Thank you. So, I'm going to take you to a passage in a letter. What church is this through? Well, we're a couple of different churches. They go to Corum Deo. It's a real big church at 53rd and 274. Okay. And then I attend Grace Fellowship, which is out off of Kimberly, just past Walmart. Okay. Yeah. Oh, is that that big one that's by... It's a real big one right off the freeway. Yeah. I have actually been there once. Okay, this is in Paul's letter to the Colossians in chapter 2 beginning in verse 8. See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily, and in Him you have been filled. who is the head over all rule and authority and in whom you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, spiritual, in the removal of the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ. Having been buried with him in baptism in which you were also raised up, with Him through faith in the working of God who raised Him from the dead. And you being dead in your transgressions in the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive with Him, having graciously forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us which was hostile to us. He also has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. having disarmed the rulers and authorities, he made a public display of them, having triumphed over them in him." Doesn't that give people a... License to sin? Yes. No, because that's hypocrisy. And the Bible says... Oh, isn't that hypocrisy though? No, because if God changes your heart, if God... Jesus said, unless a person is born again, they will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. If God causes someone to be born again, he literally changes their heart. He takes their heart of stone that would insist on their own goodness... And yet they're still sinners. Yes, right, because we still live in this mortal flesh, right? He takes that heart of stone and he gives us a heart of flesh. He puts his spirit in us. And now, and the desire of our heart now is to live a life pleasing to him, not to earn his love. Not to keep His love, not because we're afraid of losing His love, but because we're so thankful for receiving it. And when we do sin, when we do sin, we have an advocate before the Father, who is Jesus Christ, who died on the cross so that our sins could be taken away. As He died on the cross, the last thing He said was, it is finished. Tetelestai. literally means paid in full. They actually have found artifacts dating back to that time, sales receipts, where it was stamped on the bottom of those receipts, Tetelestai, paid in full. There's no more debt. The only way our debt can be paid is through the sacrifice of Christ. The Bible says, without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. So you don't believe that during this life that we're given that we should have to personally be responsible for our actions? No, we are. Oh, we most certainly are. But it's, but it's, it's a, it's a, we're not, we're not working off a debt. And, and, and we're not, and we're not, right, right. And, and, and Shawna, a lot of that is pride. A lot, a lot of that is pride. Right. And the Bible says pride goes before destruction. It's our pride that would say, it's our pride that would say to that judge, okay? So you're released. The judge dies in your place. Your defense attorney's jaws hit the table. The prosecutor's pounding the table going, that's not right. I don't still feel like he's paid his debt though, just because he was released. The judge has paid it. There was a requirement. There was a requirement. His soul hasn't paid it. I don't feel I I believe that he. to repay that debt that he would have to do some type of service. I'm saying, like, not physical service, more like, you know, spiritual service. So, Shauna, I'm not wearing a watch, but if I was wearing a watch and I... Well, you know, maybe I need to go to church to learn what I'm talking about. Okay, sure. I mean, that's possible. Okay, but Shauna, if I were to... take off my watch and hand it to you and say hey I'd like to give you this gift for taking all this time to talk to us today and okay that's kind of different but you take it and you put the watch on and I say that'll be so you put you put the one you say thank you you put the watch on and I say that'll be $300 is it still a gift No. If you have to pay for it? No. If you have to do anything for it? Right. Right? Today's my birthday, Shauna. Is it really? It is. Oh, happy birthday! I am 60 years old today. Happy birthday. And I think my wife and my daughter are probably going to get me a little something today. Right. And they're probably not going to charge me for it. Probably not. Right? Right. Salvation is a gift. The Bible says the wages of sin, what we've earned for our sin, is death. But the free gift of God is eternal life. Right. In Christ Jesus our Lord. So if there's anything you could do Shauna to pay it off, it's no longer a gift It's wages earned and that's not salvation That makes does that make sense now now look now once a person comes to faith in Christ They want to live a life pleasing to the Lord They want to live a life pleasing to the Lord So let's say Kevin was my neighbor. How old are you, Kevin? 37. Okay, so I have a daughter that age. Okay. Wow. Okay, so Kevin's my neighbor. We get our second winter somewhere in March and it snows. Kevin comes knocking on my door and he says, hey, Tony, I'm going to shovel your snow for you so that I could be your son. Right. That's what he's going to say. I'm going to shovel your snow so that I can be your son. I'm going to say a couple of things. Kevin, young man, strong young man. Thank you for shoveling my snow. I appreciate that. And honestly, I'm touched that you would want to be my son, but Kevin, Kevin, my man. Shoveling my snow is not going to make him my son. But what if Kevin was my son? And I come home after standing out here talking to Shauna and other people, and I see Kevin shoveling the snow and no one told him. He drug himself out of the basement away from his video games, and he's actually shoveling the snow on his own. So I'm a skeptical dad, and I'm thinking, what's he want? What's he want? He wants the wallet, the keys. He's got a girl to tell me about. Too old for grades. What's he still doing in my basement anyways? And Kevin sees me and he drops his shovel, comes running over, throws his arms around me and says, Dad, I know what you're thinking, but I don't want anything from you, Dad. I'm shoveling the snow because I love you and I'm thankful that you're my dad. And make most grown men cry. Most people think they're going to stand before God and they're going to get in because they shoveled the snow. But if God saves a person, they want to live their life in such a way that it's pleasing to Him, serving Him, loving others, right? But not to pay their debt, and not so that they could be a child of God, but because they're so thankful for the gift God gave them, right? So the Bible says faith without works is dead. but they're not works that lead to salvation. They're works that are the result of salvation. Well, every man-made religion says you got to do works leading to salvation. But what the Bible says is that salvation is a gift. And if you receive that gift, you're going to want to live that life that God wants you to live as imperfect as you will. And then when you do fall short, you don't have to worry about being readopted. I'm finally getting it. Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Great. Wonderful. Wonderful. Sorry it took me so long to get that. No, no. Shana, no apologies. No apologies, Shana. Shana, no apologies at all. So if you're getting it, and look, I can tell by your countenance, yeah, that you're understanding, right? And part of that is because you're talking to a guy who's not that smart anyways, and he doesn't always explain things well. And part of that could very well be that the Spirit of the Lord is working on you. I don't know that. I'm not making any declaration of that, okay? But here's the thing, Shauna, is there any sin in your life No, no, no. I know. Right. There's sin in our life too. Right. And I'm not asking you to tell me what it is. But I just want you to consider, is there any sin in your life that you love so much that you, whether it's pride or whatever it might be, that you're willing to die and spend eternity in hell so that you can enjoy that sin in this life? No. Then is there any reason, Shauna, why you wouldn't turn to Christ and receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and your Savior? Well, I think that's kind of where I'm at. Or I guess I'm at a time to where that's what I feel I need to do. I mean, even though I've always been, you know, I've always tried to live my life according to that anyway, I just kind of feel like I'm being asked to... You're being asked to come to the end of yourself. Maybe. Yeah. No, really. Really. Because Jesus said, whoever is unwilling to deny themselves, take up their cross and follow me, is unfit to be my disciple. And I guess I'm at a point to where I would like to have more information, more knowledge, more understanding. That's the word. Do you have a Bible? No, I don't. Thank you. Have you read the Bible much? When I was younger, I actually went to a lot of church, you know, different churches. I went to four years of church camp. I went to, you know, youth groups. I went to Sunday service. Well, I have a bookmark in there. Great place to start. I mean, read anywhere. It's all God's Word. But a good place to start, if you've been away from it for a while, is the Gospel of John, and that's where that's bookmarked. I'm willing to take any. You would know better than I would where to start. The Bible says life is a vapor, right? You might have 70, 80, 90, 100 years on this planet, right? And that is a speck. That's but a moment compared to eternity. Jesus said, what does it profit a person to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? What will a person give in exchange for their soul? I mean this in the kindest, most respectful way. You have lovely eyes, okay? Let's say I walked up to you and said, hey, I'm a scientist. I study the human eye, and I would like to take your right eye for an experiment. I'll give you a glass eye. It'll look close. You won't be able to see out of it. I'll give you a million dollars for your right eye. Would you do it? No. Okay. All right, so let's try this. Shauna, I'll give you five million dollars for both your eyes. You'll be blind as a bat. You'll have money in the bank. Would you do it? No. And if there's no amount of money, if there's nothing in the world that would cause you to give me your eyes that looks out onto the world, then at what price are you willing to pay to forfeit your soul that looks out of the windows of those eyes? Oh, no price. Then turn to Christ and live while God's giving you time. Put your faith and your trust in Christ alone for your salvation. He will save you. He will forgive you. God will adopt you as a beloved daughter. and he will never let you go. And you'll have the assurance of eternal life because God's good. I guess I've always thought that anyway. I just have never... I have mixed feelings about organized religion. only because because of my experience along because I've been to different because I used to go you know with like different neighbors or so I've experienced different types of religion yeah and My personal experience has never been a great one. Sure. With just, and I can't say it's the, it could just have been that, that church itself or just the feeling. I go a lot on feeling. Yeah, sure. And our feelings are unreliable. My feelings are so unreliable. I have been in search of a church or a faith, I just, you just don't know where to go or what to do. So all of this searching up to this point could have been spiritual, but without the spirit of God in you. When God causes a person to be born again through faith in Christ, he puts his spirit in them. And you're never going to find a... And I have, was saved when I was younger, like I've been through that whole, you know, But I was being directed by adults. Yeah, right, you know it wasn't your faith. It was yeah, it was my choice, but right not With full understanding of so so had you been saved and had you been saved then? Your answer to the question would not have been because I'm a good person So I guess that's what I am in search of. So it doesn't matter what happened then. What matters is now. Now is the acceptable time. Today is the day of salvation. If you believe the gospel we're bringing to you, if you believe what we're telling you is true, then you have but one option, and that is to turn from your sin and put your trust in Christ. Receive him as your Lord and your Savior. And I feel like that's kind of what I'm being directed to do. Praise the Lord. And if God does that work in you, Shauna, he may be doing that in you now, I don't know. But if he does that work in you. you're going to see this book in ways you've never seen it before. Because in 1 Corinthians 1.18 it says, the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved it is the power of God. I tried to open this book before I became a Christian, before the Lord saved me. And yes, if I needed to write a book report for a class or something, I could find the subject and the verb and all of that. But it meant nothing to me beyond that. In fact, just the next chapter over, in 1 Corinthians 2, Paul writes, the natural man cannot understand that which is spiritual, because it's spiritually afraid. Well, if the Lord is saving you, or if the Lord does save you, his spirit will be in you, and this book will come alive. And you will desire to be in fellowship with other Christians who are all imperfect like you. I can assure you my church is imperfect because I am a member. That's all you need to know. But you're going to look at these things differently if the spirit of God is in you. Right. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah. I think that's exactly why I had to stop. Well, I'm glad you did. Shauna, I'm so glad you did stop. Thank you. I appreciate your time. God bless you. Yeah, good to meet you. Have a great day.