As far as we can go tonight. My what you tell just turn the light off my my eyes acting up a little bit. It is getting better. I appreciate the prayers for it, but it's maybe it's wearing out tonight. I don't know, but. We are going to be looking at starting as we've been thinking about biblical counseling and discipleship, we're going to be starting what's what's called just the six key elements. six key elements. That is, these six things need to be in place if we're going to help someone with skill and we're going to help someone biblically. And we're going to be looking at the first one tonight, which is just to gather data, gather information, seek to understand an individual, seek to understand an individual's situation and the context of where they are and so forth and so on. Out of the six, this is probably the one that's probably the least exciting, the one that we might even overlook. I've mentioned it several times in passing already, trying to emphasize its importance, but you can't help somebody if you don't know what's going on with them. You cannot help an individual grow if you don't know where they are and you don't know where they need to be headed. You can't help someone who's struggling if you don't know what the specific struggles are and if you don't know some things about them. I put a little prompt here at the very beginning, and since I started the way I did, you'll probably catch what I'm doing. It says, Jane's husband was arrested last week. She called you and said that she wanted to meet with you because she is struggling. She's got three kids, and she works a full-time job. Okay, so husband was arrested, She called you, she's struggling. You know that she's got three kids and a full-time job. So based on the following information, what struggles will you need to address in order to help Jane? So this is just something for you to sit and think about for a second. Here she is. I mean, her husband got arrested, that's a big deal. She's already let you know she's struggling. You know she's got three kids, you know she's got a full-time job. What are the priorities as far as the struggles? And maybe you already know the answer. Well, that is a priority. But as far as the specific struggles and the priorities, you don't know. You don't know. She's got kids, but maybe she's got great parents who are watching the kids. You don't know. She's got a full-time job, but maybe she's got a great boss who's giving her some time off. Maybe she doesn't. Maybe she's got a horrible boss and she doesn't have any green. But whatever it is, we don't know. And so if we're going to try to help someone, I mean, what Brother Davis said is always going to be the case as far as we do need to be praying. Prayer is going to be something. There's categories like that that are always going to be the case. When somebody like Jane comes and requests to have a conversation with you that's maybe a conversation where I need some advice and I need some help because I'm struggling and I'm not doing that because it's not a real struggle. I'm doing that because you don't know anything yet. The buzzword is struggle. And so what we want to know is not if I were Jane, what would I be struggling with? You're not Jane. She's Jane. You're you. So what we want to know is, Jane, what are you struggling with? What are you struggling with? And that happens as we gather pertinent information, as we ask questions, as we seek to understand details about what's going on in Jane's life. This whole business of gathering data or this whole business of really understanding, it's just a different way of saying understanding a person and understanding their situation. It's the difference in you opening your mouth and saying something that seems relevant and opening your mouth and saying something that just seems completely oblivious to what's going on. Biblical information is good. It's always good. But before we get to trying to minister Scripture, this is a big book. I mean, which one are you going to use? How are you going to know which one applies? Once you figure out which one applies, how are you going to know how to apply it? And again, the answer to that is by gathering data or by understanding the person. You've heard me say this before, but I'll say it again. It's very important. If we're going to help people, if we're going to minister to people in any sort of a one another in context, any sort of discipleship context, two things we have to understand. Number one, we've got to understand scripture. And then number two, we've got to understand the person. And then we've got to connect the dots. So the way we do that is by gathering data. So question number one, why would we take the time to do that? Why take the time to gather data? Well, several reasons why that we're going to mention, but reason number one is this. We take time to gather data or to seek to understand an individual because we are not God. We're not God. God is omniscient. And that's an attribute that belongs to God and God alone. No one else gains information just simply because they know it. So, you think about a passage like Psalm 139, verses 2 and 4, as it relates to the Lord. Well, we can start in verse 1. Oh Lord, thou hast searched me and known me. Thou knowest my down setting and my uprising. Thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but lo, O Lord, Thou knowest it all together. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid Thine hand upon me." And you know, whenever we would say, only God is omniscient, we would shake our head and we would say, yeah. But we don't believe that whenever we think we can sum somebody up based on seeing 15 minutes out of their 50-year life, or 20-year life, or 15-year life. Sometimes we think we're good at picking up on things. Sometimes we think we've got great intuition. Maybe you've been right some of the time, but just because you have doesn't mean you're going to be right all the time. Maybe you're good at quickly summing folks up. Well, maybe you are, but that's not reliable. So only God is omniscient, and we have to get information. If we want information, we've got to get it. We'll talk about how to do that in a minute. Secondly, why take the time to gather data when we're trying to help somebody? Well, number two, because it's wise. Because it's wise. Look in Proverbs 18. Proverbs 18. Starting in verse 2, Proverbs 18, 2. A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself. A fool has no delight in understanding. He's only worried about him and his own thoughts. Secondly, we're just going to stay in Proverbs 18 for these passages. So verse 13, you've heard this verse before. Proverbs 18.13, He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. Someone who gives advice without hearing or understanding what it is they're actually speaking to. Parents, you've done this before. Maybe it wasn't giving advice, maybe it was getting on to somebody, getting on to your kids. They're fussing and fighting like they always have. And the same one instigates it like they always do. And you come down hard and then you realize this was one out of a billion times they weren't the one who actually instigated. He who answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame unto him. Or Proverbs 18, 15. The heart of the prudent geteth knowledge and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge. OK, so the prudent and the wise. They're seeking gathering knowledge, information, data. And then. Verse 17 Proverbs 1817. He that is first in his own cause seemeth just, but his neighbor cometh and searcheth him." He that is first in his own cause. You know how this goes. Again, we go back to if you have children, plural, or your child and a friend or something like that. Somebody gets in a scuffle. The first one to tell the story, you already know it's not going to be right. And then the friend comes and tells the story, and you can pretty well know that one's not right either, right? The truth is somewhere there in the middle, but the first one to say it seems right until another one comes and, let's see what's the word he said, and searches him out. That is just ask questions, gather knowledge. So here's a principle that is, It's pertinent, it's one that we would all do well, I think, in any context to apply. Wise individuals have learned to turn assumptions into questions. Wise individuals have learned to turn assumptions into questions. If anybody's been through premarital with me, I've told you to put that one on the fridge at least once. Turn assumptions into questions. Husbands, how many times have your assumptions gotten you in trouble? Wives, how many times has your assumptions gotten you in trouble? We assume so many things, and if we can turn those assumptions into questions, we can save ourselves a lot of trouble. Number three, why would we take time to gather data? Because listening and asking good questions shows love and concern for an individual and in turn will help build trust and transparency as we're trying to understand what's going on in an individual's life. Last, well this is not last, but yeah it is, data gathering. It helps us discern problems. How are we going to know? Like I said earlier, how are we going to know what specific problems are? We don't help people. You don't help people. You've never helped people with a discipline problem or with a struggle. You don't even know what to say. We don't know. We've dealt with people with specific problems, specific issues. The Bible talks about specific things, and so we're going to have to discern what those are. Also data gathering kind of helps, not kind of, it does. It helps us track progress and encourage folks as they grow. It helps us in all kinds of different ways. So one of the questions maybe is what kind of data are we supposed to be gathering? What's pertinent data? You know, if somebody, and some of this is going to apply to discipleship and then some of this is going to apply more to if you were meeting and working through more of a serious problem in a counseling relationship, but as far as pertinent data that I think would just be across the board, I think you'd want to know something about what's going on with an individual physically, at least in the realm of if someone comes and they're struggling with Anxiety, they're struggling with depression, maybe they're struggling like Jane because their husband's left and they're working and their kids and all that. One very good question is, how much are you sleeping? How much are you sleeping? A lack of sleep is horrendous on the human body. You can go about 48 hours before you start experiencing the same kind of symptoms that someone has when they're tripping on LSD. Okay, hallucinating. All kinds of strange things because we live in a physical body. Okay, so if someone's not sleeping, that's something you want to know and that's something they need to do. We want to know what exactly is going on. We want to know how is this situation affecting you? What are you doing in response to it? We just want to ask some clear, pertinent questions. What kind of resources do you have? So, what kind of church? If they're a member of this church, we know that already. What kind of a family situation do you have? What kind of a financial situation do you have? And so forth and so on. We just want to ask questions and kind of get an overall idea about what's going on with an individual. Two, this is one that we've covered in Proverbs 18, but it's worth saying, the primary way that we gather data and understand an individual is by listening well. It's by listening well. So what does it mean to listen well? I mean, you could go through and read those Proverbs passages again. Proverbs 18, 2, 13, 5, 17. James 1, 19b, let every man be slow to speak and swift to hear. What does it mean to listen well? Well, number one, it means that we're listening to understand. We're listening to understand. We want to understand a problem. We want to understand the circumstances. We want to understand someone's behavior. We even want to try to seek to understand what's going on in someone's heart from the standpoint of what is it that you're wanting? Why are you responding the way that you're responding? Maybe you're responding well, but we want to be paying attention and listening to these kinds of things. just to illustrate the point here on listening well versus listening just to respond. I was talking recently with an individual who was over a network of churches and we were talking about counseling. He said, you know, one of the problems with pastors is a lot of times they make lousy counselors. He said, I don't want to be cynical, but you know what I found? And I said, what? He said, most of the time they're not good counselors because they all want to be heroes. They all just want to have the magic word. They want to say the right thing that fixes everything up in five minutes or less, and the folks are done. And that just doesn't work. I said, yeah, you're right about that. That doesn't work. Well, the problem is folks haven't learned to listen well, to understand before they speak. We want to listen for themes and or patterns in people's lives. OK, maybe it's a thought pattern. Maybe they think a particular way. So maybe you're talking to somebody and they're telling you they're treated unfairly at work. Well, start talking to him about home and we figure out they're treated unfairly at home. We start talking to him about church and they're treated unfairly at church. We start talking to them about this and that. We figure out they've never had a relationship in their life where they've been treated fairly. Well, is that worth addressing? I mean, the Bible has some things to say about that. We could go on and talk about different patterns and reactions. If you find somebody who is looking for a job because they recently lost theirs, because the boss was a jerk and unreasonable, And then you found out that's the 15th job they've lost in the last five years? Maybe not, as far as the boss goes. That's a thought behavior pattern. It's worth knowing. We're looking for congruency and consistency when people are talking. That means we're just kind of paying attention to what they say. We're looking for things that maybe don't make sense. It's also, as far as listening well, it's also helpful to pay attention to what's not being said. You know, in Genesis, whenever God was confronting Cain, Cain was complaining to God, and God confronts Cain based on his countenance. What someone doesn't say can say a whole lot. Facial expressions, body language, tone of voice, those kinds of things can be very helpful in trying to understand an individual and what's going on. We also want to listen in order to form good questions, good pertinent questions. You know, good questions are hard. It's hard to ask a good question. That might seem like a silly thing to say. But a good question in the sense that it seems pertinent, it seems relevant, and it's actually getting you somewhere. In Proverbs 20, verse 5, it says, "...counsel in the heart of man is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out." Okay, so purposes, intents, just information in the heart of a man is like deep water. But a man of understanding will draw it out. We gather data as we listen well so that we can ask questions that draw out helpful information. It means whenever someone says they're struggling with things like anger or anxiety or depression or anything like that, we recognize that's almost like saying I'm struggling. You don't know much yet. We've got to ask questions. What are we anxious about? What is it like when you're experiencing anxiety? I'll give you a good example of this, and I've told this before. One time, this has been years ago, over 10 years ago, I had a guy from out of town who wanted to meet a young guy, and so we were meeting, and he was there for crippling anxiety. He had just gotten, when he came to see me, his mom had driven him. 18 or 20 or something like that, but his mom had driven him because he had just crippling anxiety. He had just gotten some medication from the doctor's office, and then he came to see me. And so he told me he had crippling anxiety. So I said, okay, and began to ask questions. And the further we got in, the more I thought to myself, nothing about this guy that he's telling me sounds consistent with somebody who has anxiety. I might be wrong, but I'm just, I'm not, I'm not seeing it. So we ask some more questions and ask some more questions. So finally, probably after 40 minutes or so, I say, and I don't, I say to this individual, do you have any unrepentant sin that you're holding onto that you hadn't confessed? And he said, no, no. And then a few minutes later, he said, OK, I got to tell you something. I haven't told anybody this. I've never told anybody this. I've been addicted to pornography for the last 15 years. I just got engaged. I'm getting ready to get married. I am horrified that this addiction is going to ruin my marriage. The problem wasn't anxiety. Anxiety was really a symptom of the problem. The problem was the pornography and the guilt that was leading to anxiety, which was a reasonable response. So listening and asking good questions can help get to the real problem. I hope that part makes sense. As we're thinking about gathering pertinent information. I mean, there's a world of questions that we could be asking, a world of information we could be gathering. Where do we kind of try to focus in? Well, it is helpful if we will focus in on fact-based questions rather than feeling-oriented questions. And if we're trying to talk to someone who's struggling trying to talk to someone who is trying to work through a problem, you will have no problems at all getting most people to converse about how they're feeling about something and their emotional responses and so forth and so on. And those aren't worthless, but that's not going to get you very far. As we're trying to gather data, we're trying to figure out what is the circumstance and how is this individual responding in thought, in word, and in action. If we can figure out what it is and how they're responding, then we can get a plan as far as moving forward. Another way to think about questions is, if you're trying to understand someone, is learn to ask open questions rather than closed questions. You may have heard of this before. A closed question is a question that requires a yes or a no answer. Okay, so for an example, if you ask somebody, did you talk to your spouse today? Yeah. What do you know? Nothing. They said yeah. Sometimes people complain and they say, you know, my husband or my child or my wife, They just don't ever give me anything. They don't ever give me any information. And sometimes that's because of the kinds of questions you're asking. Not always, but sometimes. If you give somebody a yes or no question, you're probably gonna get a yes or no answer. An open-ended question is a question that requires a substantive answer. So instead of saying, did you talk to your spouse yesterday, then you're gonna ask it this way. What did you and your spouse talk about yesterday? Well, that requires an answer. You're gonna have to give me some information if I'm asking you a question like that. You see, again, if we're gonna try to help someone, and let's just say communication is their problem, we need to know some of these things so that we know what we're looking for in Scripture to try to apply to these problems. So, other examples of open-ended question. Somebody's in a difficult situation. What's the most difficult aspect of this struggle that you're in right now. What have you already tried to do in order to solve this problem? You know, a lot of times people, before they'll actually look for help outside of themselves, will try a whole lot of things to try to solve their own problems, and many of which make their problems worse than they were To begin with, it's helpful if you know what they've already done. What's most important to you right now? That's a helpful question. How would you like me to help? That's an important question. Again, if we think back about Jane, and she's got a full-time job, and she's got kids, and we say, well, I can help you. I've got babysitters lined up for you, and meals headed your way. And she says, I don't need any of that. My parents are helping, and so forth and so on. So, gathering data. Now again, that seems, as we're thinking about helping people, that may not seem like the most exciting aspect. But as we look in Scripture and we look at wisdom literature, Proverbs 18, Proverbs 20, James, we see that a wise individual is going to listen before they speak. And so we want to move into the next key element we're going to look at is discerning problems biblically. We want to take information. We want to take things that people are sharing with us and then be able to look at those through a biblical lens. And we can't do that if we don't know what it is. We don't have information. So God bless us to be humble listeners, those who listen well, so that we can discern well. Let's pray. Father, we do have to confess that most of us anyway struggle in this area. Lord, it takes patience and humility to just admit that we might not know as much as we think we do, and to take the time to ask questions, to seek to understand someone. But Your Word tells us that those who seek wisdom will do just that. And so I pray that you would bless us to be slow to speak and quick to hear and humble enough to want to understand an individual that we have the opportunity to minister to. I pray in Jesus name. Amen.