Our Father and our God, we pause before the reading of your word, Lord, to acknowledge in your presence that we know that we're handling reverently the very word of God. And Lord, we know it's truth, and we need to be calibrated to this truth. So Father, you do the work that only you can do, Lord, and open our ears and our hearts and our minds, and we thank you in Jesus' name, amen. So this is Mark 15, one through five. Immediately in the morning, the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and they bound Jesus, led him away, and delivered him to Pilate. Then Pilate asked him, are you the king of the Jews? He answered and said to him, it is as you say. And the chief priests accused him of many things, but he answered nothing. Then Pilate asked him again, saying, do you answer nothing? See how many things they testify against you? But Jesus still answered nothing. So that Pilate marveled. Well, we looked last week at the fact that Jesus, really, you could divide both of these trials into thirds. Jesus was before Annas, and then he went before the Sanhedrin. Then the Sanhedrin, as we see in verse 1 of 15 Mark, gathered again as the sun came up, because that was a legal proceeding. And what they obviously were doing in that proceeding was deciding what the charge would be that they would charge Jesus with because they had accused him and determined his guilt for blasphemy. And Rome was not going to put Jesus to death for blaspheming this Jewish God. That's how Rome would have seen it. So they come together to decide, well, what are we going to accuse him of when we bring him to Pilate? And it's pretty obvious that Mark tells us, because the first thing Pilate says is, are you the king of the Jews? And we'll unpack that a little more fully as we look at some of these other gospels. John, the gospel according to John, chapter 18, verse 29, reading says, Pilate then went out to them and said, what accusation do you bring against this man? They answered and said to him, if he were not an evildoer, we would not have delivered him up to you. Then Pilate said to them, you take him and judge him according to your law. Therefore the Jews said to him, it is not lawful for us to put anyone to death, that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spoke, signifying by what death he would die. And this is the opening of the official trial. I think this threw the Jewish leadership off. I think they thought, because remember, they had a detachment of Roman soldiers when they went to go arrest Jesus. And I think this caught them off guard. They thought they were going to bring Jesus to Pilate, and Pilate would just simply take him and crucify him and just take care of it without charges being brought. But Pilate opens a trial here when he says, What's the charges? What are you accusing him of? And do you understand and notice that they don't really give a clear answer. They just say, well if you weren't an evildoer we wouldn't have brought him to you. Obviously he's worthy of death. But Pilate's a smart individual and we'll see as we move along. And Pilate pushes them to the point where they're going to have to bring an official charge, an official accusation against Jesus, and just saying he's an evildoer was not going to be enough. So the specific charges are now brought, and we can read that in Luke 23 verse 2. It says, And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ, a king. Three charges, according to Luke. Perverting the nation, which is strangely undefined. Pilate wouldn't know what to do with that. He's perverting the nation. Secondly, they lie and say that Jesus was forbidding people to pay taxes to Caesar. Now, do you remember them trying to catch him on the horns of that dilemma? And Jesus said what? Render to Caesar what is Caesar's. He didn't forbid them from paying taxes, but he said, but give to God what's God. Worship to God, but pay your taxes is basically what Jesus has said. So they outright lie about that. And then thirdly, they say that Jesus is claiming himself to be the anointed one of God, the Christ, a king. And that's where Pilate will take hold of that accusation and question Jesus about that, as we read in Mark's gospel, that Jesus made himself to be king. John, if you're familiar with John's gospel, and it's actually been many years ago that we went through John together. I always think everything was like two weeks ago, and I go back and look at my notes, and I'm like, man, that was like a long time ago. But John's gospel is full of irony, more than the other gospel writers. And I want you to see the irony that John records in this time setting in John 18, 28. Because it says, then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the praetorium. And by the way, the praetorium was no dump. That was a palace. Here the great ones lived there. So they take them to where Apilot is, and they take them to the praetorium. And it says, and it was early morning, but they themselves did not go into the praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. So here you have these wicked men who are pleading or applauding to put Jesus to death, who are about to lie and make a false accusation, which as we're studying the Ten Commandments in our morning readings, is against God's law, and they're bearing false witness, and they think they're so self-righteous and so good that they can't go into that house with a Gentile, because that'll defile us and we want to partake of the Passover, when the very one that they're bringing accusation against is the Lamb of God. who will be our Passover. There's an irony in all of this. The whole trial here is really quite illegal. There's a rush to judgment on the part of the Jews. And now they pass Jesus off to Pilate. And I'm going to read this, but I'm going to hit it again when we get there. But Pilate, you have to understand, sees through all of this. He's not in that position because he's a fool. He's a smart guy. And Matthew records in chapter 27 verse 18, speaking of Pilate, that he knew that they had handed him, meaning Jesus, over because of envy. Pilate knew that. Pilate knew that these guys were proud, they were self-righteous, and he knew that the sin that was the crux of what caused them to go into play against Jesus was that they actually envied Him. They envied the crowds going after Him. They envied that He could turn their traditions on their head and replace it with the Word of God. Jesus wasn't just simply quoting the rabbis. He was bringing new truth to bear upon situations. You read the Sermon on the Mount, and it's almost as if Jesus is talking about God's law and says... I've heard preachers say this before, but Jesus was basically saying, let me tell you what I meant when I said that. And he's speaking on behalf of God, explaining things. You heard it said not to commit adultery. Well, I tell you, let me tell you what I meant when I said that. is what Jesus is saying. And they envied him because the crowds rushed to him and they felt like they were losing their power. And Pilate sees that. He sees behind it all. Well, the fuller interrogation, there's a lot more. Now, Mark is a very brief account of Jesus before Pilate. But the fuller interrogation, let me read you again. Here's Mark 15.2, where it says, then Pilate asked him, are you the king of the Jews? And he answered and said to him, it is as you say. There's a lot more going on in that conversation, and John records it for us. So again, John 18, and listen to how this goes forth. John 18, beginning of verse 33, it says, Then Pilate entered the praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to him, Are you the king of the Jews? And Jesus answered him, are you speaking for yourself about this? Or did others tell you this concerning me? And Pilate answered, am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered you to me. What have you done? Jesus answered, my kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight so that I should not be delivered to the Jews. But now my kingdom is not from here. Pilate therefore said to him, are you a king then? Jesus answered, you say rightly that I am a king for this cause I was born and for this cause I have come into the world that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice. Pilate said to him, what is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews and said to them, I find no fault in him at all." Now you have to understand that this is a trial. The charges have been brought. Pilate has done his interview, Jesus has answered his questions, and Pilate delivers his verdict. Not guilty. He comes out before the crowd and says, not guilty to the leadership, not guilty. It's interesting when you look at this exchange. I've always been fascinated by John's Gospel and this exchange between Pilate and Jesus. Because it's almost as if the tables get turned at some point here. And Jesus is challenging Pilate with who he truly is. He reveals his identity. a king, but it's not a kingdom like you have here on Earth, Pilate. It's not from or of this world. And I don't have soldiers. I don't have an army to defend me. That's not the type of kingdom it is. It's not what you're thinking of. I came into this world from out of this world, and this is my divine destiny. I've come to be the king. And Jesus indeed is king of the kings, and he's lord of the lords. And Pilate really, quite honestly, doesn't know what to do. And do you see how Jesus challenges Pilate here? And he speaks of truth, and those that are of the truth, those that are seeking truth, those that want to hear truth, that want to uncover truth. And Jesus says, All those that are of the truth, hear my voice." It's almost an invitation to Pilate, for Pilate to say, not just simply, what is truth and walk away, but to fall to his knees before the Lord and say, what is truth? I'm dying to know truth. What is truth? And Jesus could say, I am the truth. You know, I'm the way to everlasting life. D.A. Carson in his commentary on this says, the man in the dock invites his judge to be his follower, to align himself with those who are of the truth. And Pilate, I'm wondering if he wasn't tugged at some level, if he wasn't drawn to Christ to some level and had to turn on his heels and walk away. And he goes out and says, the man's innocent. He's done nothing of the charges that you've accused him of. Now, Pilate wants to wash his hands, literally, of this whole mess. And you'll find he can't. And it's not as if Pilate was overcome and overworked by God in his sovereignty and became a robot of some sort. Pilate is making decisions volitionally. He's looking at what's going on, he's hearing the arguments, he hears Jesus' words, and he's making decisions. over and above all that in a way that none of us can truly understand. The invisible hand of God is at work because Jesus is going to go to that cross. So Pilate's not guiltless in any of this, but he wants to get rid of this whole situation. He wants to be done with this Jesus. I think Jesus is starting to really unnerve Pilate. And he'll find out that Jesus is from Galilee. And he thinks quickly, well, wait a minute. That's Herod's territory. Let me get rid of this guy and send him off to Herod. And Pilate thought, I'm glad that's over. And that's recorded for us in Luke's gospel. I believe Luke's the only one that actually records this for us. But it's Luke 23 in verse 4 and following. So Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowd, I find no fault in this man. But they were more fierce, saying, he stirs up the people, teaching throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee to this place. When Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked if the man were a Galilean. And as soon as he knew that he belonged to Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who was also in Jerusalem at that time. Now when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceedingly glad, for he had desired for a long time to see him, because he had heard many things about him, and he hoped to see some miracle done by him. And then he questioned him with many words, but he answered him nothing. And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him, and then Herod, with his men of war, treated him with contempt, and mocked him, arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him back to Pilate. That very day Pilate and Herod became friends with each other, for previously they had been at enmity with each other." That last verse always grabs me. Here you've got Pilate. Here you've got Herod. And they both are going to declare Jesus innocent. And as they go and conspire together to turn Him over to Rome to be executed, they become friends. They become friends. So the official trial is the charge. You have the trial, the questioning, the verdict. I find no fault in Him. One of the things that I've always been taken to heart when I study this section of scripture, where Jesus is before Herod, is that there's times when God refuses to speak. And it's because of Herod's motives. Herod didn't want Jesus to come because Herod was of the truth. Herod wanted to know the truth. You know, point out my sin. I need a savior. That's not what it's talking about. Herod was exceedingly excited about Jesus coming because he wanted Jesus to put on a show for him. And God is not going to put on a show for anybody. It's so dishonoring to Jesus. And you wonder what he intended for him to do. Did he bring jugs of water and say, turn them into wine? Jesus? I mean, what was he trying to get Jesus to do? As if he was a circus performer. And Jesus will answer him nothing. Nothing. We have to be very careful. Ray Comfort, the evangelist, has a teaching out about how people treat God as if he's their heavenly bellhop. And we have to be so careful. And of course, we make our requests known to God. He wants us to. He cares for us. But he's not a heavenly bellhop to do our bidding. And people don't reach out to him. People are not in prayer until something happens. Like, oh, I need a car, Lord. Can you fetch me a car? I need a spouse, Lord. Can you fetch me a spouse? There's no way to honor God. And Herod is of that ilk. He wanted Jesus to put on a show. And Jesus will have nothing to do with it. John Calvin comments on this and says, it was impossible but that a haughty man who valued himself on his luxuries and royal dignity and wealth should despise Christ, who at that time had nothing but was contemptible in his appearance. And yet the pride of Herod, which shut the door on the grace of God, admits of no excuse. In other words, Herod's without excuse. In fact, the Bible, with the Apostle Paul and Romans, says the whole world is without excuse before God. Because we refuse to acknowledge Him as God, as we're not thankful to Him. So Jesus is now sent back to Pilate. So here's the third phase of this civic trial. Before Pilate, before Herod, now back to Pilate. And I'm going to read that out of Luke's Gospel, chapter 23, beginning in verse 13. Says, then Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests, the rulers, and the people, said to them, you have brought this man to me as one who misleads the people. And indeed, having examined him in your presence, I have found no fault in this man concerning those things of which you accuse him. No. Neither did Herod, for I sent you back to him. And indeed, nothing deserving of death has been done by him. I will therefore chastise him and release him." So as Pilate say to the leadership and the people is, I tried him. The verdict is not guilty. I sent him to Herod. Herod tried him. His verdict was not guilty. I will chastise him." In other words, I know he's done something. Remember he asked Jesus, what have you done? In other words, what he was asking Jesus was, what have you done that you've so angered the Jewish leadership that they dragged you down to me hoping I'll put you to death? What have you done? So Jesus tries to placate the leadership and says, look, I'll chastise him. He'll learn his lesson. He won't do whatever it is that he did, and we'll shut him up. I'll chastise him, but I'm gonna release him because the verdict is he's not guilty. then Jesus will be presented to the crowd. That's in Mark 15, verse 6 through 10. And then I want to read this, and I'm going to go back and look at some things that have gone on that Mark doesn't mention, but we can pull from the other gospel writers. So in Mark 15, 6, it says, Now at the feast he was accustomed to releasing one prisoner to them, whomever they requested. And there was one named Barabbas who was chained with his fellow rebels. They had committed murder in the rebellion. Then the multitude, crying aloud, began to ask him to do just as he had always done for them. But Pilate answered them, saying, do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?" And I think he's looking at the Jewish leadership when he said this to the crowd. Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews? For he knew that the chief priests had handed him over because of envy." Because of envy. And he thought certainly they're going to choose Jesus. There's this tradition at the time of the feast, it's the Passover and then the Feast of Unleavened Bread, a week-long feast. And it's a tradition for Pilate to release somebody from prison. And so these two are brought forward, a rebellious, it tells us, murderer. The other gospel writer is going to tell us that he's a robber, he's a thief, he's a murderer, he's a rebel. Or the prince of peace. Which of the two will the world elect to be released, and which of the two will the world elect to be put to death, is what's on trial before the people. And the people choose Barabbas over the Lord of life. Now, not in Mark's gospel, but in Matthew's gospel, we get this ominous warning that's given to Pilate in the middle of all of this that unnerves Pilate. And this is recorded in Matthew 27 verse 19. where it says, while he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent to him, saying, Have nothing to do with that just man, for I have suffered many things today in a dream because of him. That unnerved Pilate. And I don't know if his wife was given a vision by God Almighty, a dream by God. Could be. But whatever it was, it unnerved Pilate's wife. And so much so that she sent somebody while he's proceeding in court session to go interrupt that, to say, hey, don't have anything to do with this righteous man, this just man, the one that you've declared innocent. Now Pilate's wife declares to be just. have nothing to do with him. I had this horrible dream about him. J.D. Jones in his commentary says, the third and final stage in our Lord's trial was the most protracted of the three. Mark does not tell the whole story here. Pilate tried one device after another to escape from the necessity of condemning an innocent man. And yet to avoid coming into open conflict with the priests and the Jerusalem mob, his struggles were hopeless. and as pitiable as those of a bird caught in a cage." And here's Pilate struggling with all of this. Now John's going to record for us some things that happen in the midst of all of this. And so let's look at John's gospel. Again, chapter 18, and I'll begin in verse 39. And I'm just going to read 39-40, and then we'll go to chapter 19, 1-5. Pilate says, but you have a custom that I should release someone to you at the Passover. Do you therefore want me to release to you the king of the Jews? And they all cried again saying, not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber. So then Pilate took Jesus and scourged him, and the soldiers twisted a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe. Then they said, Hail, King of the Jews, and they struck him with their hands. Pilate then went out again and said to them, Behold, I am bringing him out to you, that you may know that I find no fault in him. Then Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, and Pilate said to them, Behold the man. What a pitiable vision of Jesus, bloodied, beaten, blood streaming down from the crown of thorns. in a robe, half naked before the crowd. And Jesus presents him and Barabbas, probably who didn't look nearly as bad, and says, which of these two would you like me to release? Now, I believe that Pilate fully intended that the crowd would say, have mercy on Jesus. Look at that poor, pitiable soul. Let him go. We choose Jesus. That's what Pilate thought was going to happen. But that's not what happened. In John 19 verse 6 it says, Therefore when the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him! Crucify him! And Pilate said to them, You take him and crucify him, for I find no fault in him. Now how many times has Pilate declared him innocent? The Jews answered him, We have a law, and according to our law, he ought to die. Now listen to the charge against Jesus change. We have a law, and according to our law, he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. Wait a minute, Pilate didn't hear that charge before. And it says, therefore, when Pilate heard that saying, he was all the more afraid. And he went into the praetorium, and he said to Jesus, where are you from? Do you see what's going on in Pilate here? He's stuck in this horrible position. He's a wicked man. You can read extra-biblical writings about Pilate. He was no saint. But you almost feel sorry for him when you read through the Gospels and this predicament. And he makes a wicked decision, there's no doubt about it. But he is unnerved. His wife has already said that he's a just man, had nothing to do with him, had a horrible dream or a vision about him. And now Pilate hears that the true charge is that Jesus has said that he is the Son of God. Where are you from? But Jesus gave him no answer. Then Pilate said to him, Are you not speaking to me? Do you not know that I have power to crucify you and power to release you? Now think about that. Pilate says, do you not know that I have the power, I am the power over your life to release you or crucify you? I am the power. Now what was it that made the Jews so angry when Jesus was on that ecclesiastical trial? Because He said that He was the Son of Man, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power." God's the Power. Jesus is a unique and only Son of God. Pilate says to Him, Don't you know that I have the power to crucify, the power to release you?" And Jesus said, you could have no power at all against me unless it had been given to you from above. Therefore, the one who delivered me to you has the greater sin. Did Jesus just call Pilate a sinner? He did. But he says that those who know and conspired to bring me to you, they have a greater sin. But Pilate, you're standing in sin. Now, he's invited him to come to know the truth, to hear his words, and Pilate resists that. And now he calls him a sinner, and sinners are in need of a Savior. And it says in verse 12, when Pilate hears that, it says, From then on, Pilate sought to release him. But the Jews cried out, saying, if you let this man go, you are not Caesar's friend. Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar." It's the same temptation that everybody is faced with, to be friends with the world, or to be a lover of God, a lover of Jesus Christ. And Pilate's going to choose friendship with the world. That's his sin, among many others. So Pilate will submit to the demands of the crowd. And back in our Gospel of Mark now, Mark 15, verse 11, it says, but the chief priests stirred up the crowd so that he should rather release Barabbas to them. Pilate answered and said to them, again, What then do you want me to do with him who you call the king of the Jews?' So they cried out again, Crucify him. Then Pilate said to them, Why? What evil has he done? But they cried out all the more, Crucify him. So Pilate, wanting to gratify the crowd, released Barabbas to them. And he delivered Jesus after he had scourged him to be crucified. There's a few points in the other Gospels about the crowd here. John 19.15 tells us how the crowd rejects Christ as their king. He was presented to the crowd, to the Jews, as their rightful king, and they reject him as king. John 19.15, but they cried out, away with him, away with him, crucify him. And Pilate said to them, shall I crucify your king? The chief priests answered, we have no king, but Caesar. Then he delivered him to be crucified, so he took Jesus and led him away. We have no king but Caesar." The crowd in doing this horrifically accepts the blood guilt. They're crucifying, it's not just Pilate, it's not just the Jewish leadership, it's not just the Sanhedrin, it's also the crowd, it's also the soldiers that are going to murder an innocent victim. Matthew 25, 24 says, Then Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that the tumult was rising. He took water, and he washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person. You see to it. And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us and on our children. What a wicked thing to say. Yeah, let's murder this innocent person and the blood guilt for that murder is on us and on our children and on the generations. Now you think about that the next time you're in Acts chapter 2 when the Holy Spirit's poured out and Peter preaches a fantastic sermon. and speaks of the fact that this grace is available through saving faith in Jesus Christ and the promises to you and to your children. Because they had committed blood murder and the blood was on them down to the next generation, but grace can go as far as sin extends. Pilate releases Jesus basically to the will of a mob. Luke 23, 24 says, so Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they requested. It's not justice. This isn't his verdict. He just gave a sentence that it should be as they requested. And he released to them the one they requested, who for rebellion and murder have been thrown into prison. But he delivered Jesus to their will. Delivered Jesus to their will. Just briefly, I want to examine a few individuals in this second trial, this civic trial. The chief priests, guilty to be sure, They have calloused hearts. Now, they had just said, at this trial, that they would accept the blood guilt, right? His blood be on us and our children. Now later, as the church is birthed in the book of Acts, and the apostles are rounded up and arrested, listen to what they say. Says, then the captain went with the officers. This is Acts 5, by the way, if you'd like to follow or read it later. Acts 5, 26. Then the captain went with the officers and brought them without violence, for they feared the people, lest they should be stoned. And when they had brought them, they set them before their counsel. And the high priest asked them saying, did we not strictly command you not to teach in this name? They were teaching in the name of Jesus. And then they said, and look, look, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine and intend to bring this man's blood on us. They were that callous of heart. It's like, weren't you the very one that stood there and said, let his blood guilt be on me? And they shirked that off. They hardened their hearts. And later on, they think somehow the apostles are bringing this man's blood on them. In Acts 5.29, Peter and the other apostles answered and said, we ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you murdered by hanging on a tree." They don't mince words. You murdered him, is what the apostles say to the chief priests. The crowd who chose Barabbas, again, J.D. Jones says, Barabbas or Christ? Pilate offered the crowd the option, and they chose Barabbas and rejected Christ. In a different form, the same option is presented to every one of us. It is true we have not to choose between some red-handed robber and the Lord. Something else takes Barabbas's place, but in every case, there is a choice. That is always how Christ presents himself to us, as an alternative. We have to choose between him and the world. in one or other of many forms of it, assumes between him and a life of pleasure, or between him and mammon, and between him and self. And the choice is as critical for us as it was for this Jerusalem crowd. Our eternity depends upon it. Do not think that none have said, not this man, but Barabbas, since that fatal Friday. They are saying it continually, for they are choosing self and sin and the world, and saying of Christ, we will not have this man to reign over us. And so they crucify the Son of God afresh and put him to open shame." And thirdly, look at Pilate. He sacrificed justice for the sake of expediency, to be a pleaser of the crowd, to remain friends with Caesar. And he shipwrecked his soul. He was warned by his wife. He was invited to truth by the Savior. He knew the charges were brought by envy. He clearly knew and declared that Jesus was innocent multiple times. He attempted to divert his guilt by washing his hands. And he's etched forever into the creed of the church. I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, and suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. Jesus. Look at Jesus. Innocent, yet condemned. innocent yet condemned. And look at us. We're guilty and yet set free. It's because Jesus, who was innocent, was condemned, went to the cross to die for our sins, that we who are guilty could have our sins esponged, be cloaked in the righteousness of Christ Almighty, and be set free. Romans 4.25 says of Jesus that he was delivered up He was delivered up by Pilate. He was delivered up by the Jewish leadership. He was delivered up by the crowds. He was delivered up because of our offenses. And He was raised because of our justification. For He who made Him, who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. I was thinking as I was preparing this sermon, how many times we've studied the trial of Christ, really the trials of Christ, and how important it is for us to come back to them frequently, to study, to see that Jesus was declared innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt. Even at the crucifixion, the soldier will say, this man truly was the Son of God. When all of that happens, and God willing, we'll begin to look at that next week. But Jesus, the innocent one, the innocent Son of God, the Lamb who came, the pure Lamb to take away the sin of the world, He was offered up, He was sent to Calvary, and He was executed on the cross that we might be set free. But let me close with that. Our Father and our God, we thank you for the truth of the gospel. And Lord, what more can I say but just to ask you to seal these truths that we studied today to our souls. In Jesus' name, amen.