people find freedom in this area, that's really an important thing. Because there's nothing like genuine repentance that will change any of our hearts for that matter. Why don't you turn with me to 2 Corinthians chapter 7. Paul had written another letter or two to the Corinthian church and addressed many different issues that needed to be confronted and dealt with, some that would include church discipline. Here he begins to talk about that letter and the repentance that the church showed. OK, that's fine. We can just go ahead and look at the word here. And then it says, let's look at verse 8. It says, For even though I did grieve you with my letter, I do not regret it now, though I did regret it. For I see that the letter did pain you, though only for a little while, yet I am glad now, not because you were pained, but because you were pained into repentance. And then I like this paraphrase here, the amplified version. It says in parentheses, that turned you to God, the repentance that turned you to God. For you felt a grief such as God meant you to feel. That is really, really important. And actually, this translation really describes much better than any other translation the heart of genuine repentance. Because within us, within a Christian, Jesus Christ dwells. And a big part of repentance is feeling inside what Jesus feels about something. And there is a grieving It says you felt the grief such as God meant you to feel so that if nothing you might suffer loss through us or the harm for what we did and So when we're talking about genuine repentance, there's there's a real heart understanding of how God views the sin how he feels about the sin how he grieves over the sin and And that is really important for people to come to the end of themselves and to have an understanding of what it means to repent. And then in verse 10 it says, for godly grief or godly sorrow and the pain God has permitted to direct, produce a repentance that leads and contributes to salvation and deliverance. Now that word in most translations you have salvation, the repentance that leads to salvation. Actually that is not a good English word to describe the Greek word. A better word to use would be what is here, salvation and deliverance. That is really a fuller meaning of that word, salvation. Deliverance from evil, and it never brings regret, but worldly grief, the hopeless sorrow, the discharacteristic of the pagan world, is deadly. it brings about death. So there's worldly sorrow, godly sorrow. Godly sorrow means that my heart feels the same way that God feels about the sin. It means that I'm going to be on my way to deliverance. I'm going to find deliverance from that sin when that happens. Worldly sorrow is kind of like, I'm sorry I got caught. I'm sorry because of my circumstances. I'm sorry because of the financial loss or because I've lost my wife or my kids. That really isn't the kind of sorrow that brings repentance. What brings repentance is feeling the way God does about sin. Not to say that you're not going to you know, grieve the losses and the consequences of your sin as well. But the heart there is one that is grieving and feels the same way that God feels about your sin. Then in verse 11 it says, For you can look back now and observe what this same godly sorrow has done for you and has produced in you what eagerness and earnest care to explain and clear yourselves of all complicity in the condoning of incest, which was the sin here, one of the serious sins that had to be addressed, what indignation at the sin, what alarm, what yearning, what zeal to do justice to all concerned, what readiness to mete out punishment to the offender, at every point you have proved yourself cleared and guiltless in the matter. You can see that the product of Jane and repentance is they're going to do whatever it takes to make it right. And that is very, very important when you're dealing with somebody that struggles with an addiction. They have to come to the end of themselves. They have to come to that same place, whether it's this here, it was a sexual addiction that was in the church that was being dealt with. but it could be an alcohol addiction, a drug addiction, any type of addiction that you're dealing with, there needs to be a real genuine repentance that needs to take place in the person's heart. Yes, ma'am. Somebody that has DID? Well, when you deal with addictions and DID, normally what I'm wanting to do is I'm wanting to strengthen the hosts and make the host more responsible for the choices that the other parts make. And, you know, again, it's kind of back to the principle is that there's a part of them that is kind of, hopefully, well, let me back up here. Rewind. I don't really counsel with any EIDs unless they are really serious about God. First of all. There has to be a real sincere desire for them to turn to the Lord. Now I understand that their woundedness is going to cause problems with that, but we all have that. But there has to be a real sincere desire to follow the Lord. I've seen a lot of counselors spend a lot of time and effort with people that are DID and they just do all sorts of stuff. Because their heart really isn't committed to the Lord. Now I know the difference. I've been around the block long enough to know the difference. And I'm always looking at what God is doing in a person's heart. And so if they have an addiction issue, as God is working in their heart and life, and they're finding healing, those things will drop off. You know what I'm saying? And sometimes there are altars that can have an eating disorder, which would be a common one. But if you're dealing with sins like promiscuity, you know, alcohol addiction, drug addiction, they're really going to have to deal with the pain that's behind that addiction pretty early in the process. And so that's where, and I'll kind of get into that here a little bit about having them, they're going to have to deal with the wounds that are there. You know, you can't, your understanding and your patience level needs to be greater for a person that's DID, okay? But there also has to be a real sincere desire for them to follow the Lord. So yeah, this is the Amplified Bible. And there's some passages here that I think that are really important that really draws out, the Amplified really draws out the meaning very well. And so there's a real desire to make you know the wrong right and so and they're beginning to understand how God sees it and so when you're dealing with so that's really the type of person that's struggling with an addiction that you can help okay people that don't really fit that description are going to be very hard to help and it really kind of depends on the kind of counseling situation you're in like for me you know I can have people that are coming in from out of state for four or five days. And so it's not like we have a whole lot of time to get to that place of repentance. You know what I mean? It's like they almost have to come at that level to get the help that they need. Now if you're in a local church situation where somebody's kind of up and down, you can have a little bit more patience with them and kind of let the course of time and the pressure that God will put on them. and the circumstances of their sin, work on them a little bit. You can have a little bit more patience to let them come to the end of themselves. But primarily, you're really not going to get very far. And I've worked with people with addictions for over 20 some years. You're really not going to get very far until they really come to that place of genuine repentance. So that's really, really important whenever you're dealing with people that are struggling with addictions. Yeah. I think that it is. I think that God initiates and brings people to that place. But I also think that there's a humility that we also have to come to. We have to begin to say and begin to see it from God's perspective. Praying that God would give them that gift. Yeah. Yeah, there's all sorts of defense mechanisms. In fact, I've got a list here of those. of different examples of worldly sorrow, denial, and fantasy, emotional insulation, regression, displacement, projection, rationalization. Those are all different examples of that deception of worldly sorrow. But people have to come to that place. of genuine repentance. And again, it is discerning more what is God doing in that person's life. Has God brought them to that place? And are they responding to God's conviction in their life to come to that place of repentance? And I've had some situations where I just know that that's what they need to do. And there's really not a whole lot more you can do until they get to that place. OK. What's next up there, Bob? If I'm not doing it, it's hard for me to synchronize it. OK. Yeah, OK. That's what we've been talking about. Let's look at Psalms 51. That is really an awesome passage there. It talks about David's repentance. And yeah. No, you want to back up. What's that? Maybe it is. Stress. In Psalms 51, we're looking on page one here of the notes. There's seven characteristics of godly sorrow in the life of David. And this is another great passage portion of scripture when we're talking about repentance. David cried out for mercy in verse one. He acknowledged his self-will or his iniquity in verse two. And this is kind of like man's response in the repentance process. David was intimately aware of his sin and took personal responsibility for his violating God's laws. David acknowledged his sin was against a holy God. David clearly understood that God would deal with his sin. Verses four through six there, David asked God to change his heart, created me a clean heart. Oh God. You know, verse 10, he knew he needed to have a, he knew he needed to see this from his God's perspective. He knew he needed to change. And then David understood God wanted to teach him the true meaning of being broken and contrite heart. And so as I'm trying to discern where people are at in counseling people, in particular, we're talking about addictions here. These are the kinds of things that I'm looking for. Are they wanting to take responsibility? Do I see them crying out to God? Do I see them acknowledging their sin is against God? Do they understand that God is going to deal with them regarding their sin? That there's going to be consequences that they're going to have to accept? Do they really see a need to change? Hey, I've got to change. And so this is just part of that process of repentance. Why don't you turn with me to page, let's see, page three. And this is taken from Psalms 31. Here's four characteristics of the addicted. In fact, let me go ahead and read you those verses here. It says in verse four, it is not for kings, Olamil, it is not for kings to drink wine or for rulers to desire a strong drink. lest they drink and forget the law and what it decrees, and pervert the justice due any of the afflicted. Give strong drink to him who is ready to pass away, and wine to him in bitter distress of heart. Let him drink and forget his poverty, and remember his want and misery no more. Open--" I'm sorry. That's it. And so you can see some of the characteristics here that are in these verses. They are perishing. Which means to lose oneself to fail to be undone to be destroyed So people that are struggling with addictions have a lot of hopelessness a lot of low self-image. They're very hard on themselves The lie that they believe is I'm just the same old poor sinner who is helpless and hopeless and I'm never going to change Okay, and so the truth is that the old person I used to be was crucified with Christ And I'm a new creation who is dead to sin and I am a righteous saint And so you can just see a person's perspective on their identity of Christ is really being based on how they've performed. They're basing who they are on how their flesh has performed. And that's usually one of the main areas that I'm gonna address with somebody that's dealing with addiction, is I'm gonna want to try to understand where are they finding their identity? And a lot of times it is in the performance kinds of things. And so when you have an addiction and you're kind of basing your identity on your actions there of your addiction, you're always going to feel like a failure. And so they have to kind of take the truths that are in Romans 7 and begin to understand that it's their flesh that sins, but it's not the person, the new person in Christ. and beginning to help them understand that. In fact, for some people, I'll kind of paint a story about what it's like to be tempted. And just a real simple one would be like, let's say I had somebody that struggled with a sexual addiction. And I'll say, let's say I have a Playboy magazine here on my desk. And it's the latest version. And I'll ask them, who's your favorite movie star, female movie star? And they'll say, oh, Nicole Kidman. I'll say, OK. Well, let's just say Nicole Kidman decided that she was going to do an article in a nude photo opportunity for Playboy magazine. And I had that edition on my desk here. And I opened up the centerfold. And would your flesh be tempted to look at that? And they're like, oh, yeah, of course it would. And I said, and so we begin to talk about how the flesh is tempted, you know, through the lust of the eye and the pride of life and the lust of the flesh. And then I'll ask him, I'll say, now, inside of you, you know, is there a part of your heart that doesn't want to look at that? And they'll be like, yeah. Is there a part of your heart that would really feel convicted if you looked at that picture? Yeah. Is there a part of you that just would just doesn't want anything to do with looking at that picture? Yeah. You know? Have you ever had pornography in your possession and just lost all desire for it and just wanted to throw it away and get rid of it? Yeah. And trying to get them to understand, you know, there's a part of your heart where Jesus lives that doesn't want anything to do with looking at that. In fact, it can make it sick to look at it. It grieves your heart to look at that. Trying to get them to understand the difference between their flesh, and if they're a man, it would be good that their flesh would want to look at a naked woman, better than a naked guy. But the Spirit of Christ dwells within them. And there's a part of them in the new creation that doesn't want anything to do with that. And what I find with most people that are struggling with addictions, they are not in touch with that. They are not in touch with the new person in Christ. They don't know how to walk in the spirit. If we walk in the spirit, Galatians says, we'll walk in the spirit, we will not what? Fulfill the what? Lust of the flesh. And so there is an understanding here. of trying to help them understand what the truth is regarding their identity in Christ. I saw a hand back there. Exactly. Oh, huge. Major, major, major. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of what I'm doing when I'm counseling with addicts is really trying to help them get connected to what the truth is regarding their identity in Christ. That's a big part of it. And helping them understand the battle between their flesh and really understanding the new heart that Jesus gave them. Because it's that part of them that's key to repentance because they're going to grieve and feel the same way God feels about that sin, but it's also the part of them that doesn't even want to do it. I'm black and white. I'm a black and white person. Yeah. Well, normally what I do is, and I've had those situations with people locally that I've helped. And what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to understand, what are some of the false beliefs? And in these charts, there's a lot of the lies versus the truth here. And let me just go over them real quick, and then I'll answer that question. They're filled with anguish, which is bitter, provoked, grieved, vexed, discontented. bitter and guilty. The lie is I deserve to be punished and condemned. I can't face the truth about myself. I'm a prisoner of my past. The truth is there is no more guilt, condemnation in Christ. God has taken care of my past and the cross. I am now a product of the cross. Poverty, to be destitute, to have lack, need, needy, poor, so they're destitute and defeated. The lie is I am unloved and unaccepted. I've been forsaken. I'm without support. The truth is God loves me and accepts me and will never leave me or forsake me. He has given me everything I need for life and godliness, every spiritual blessing and victory. Misery, I toil severely with irksome and worrying effort, worry and burden. The lie is it's up to me and I'm giving up because I don't feel like I can do it. The truth is God will do it all for me and has called me to give up. and rest in Him. And so what I will do, and this is just kind of a generic truth and lie kind of chart. There are more specific lies that people believe regarding their identity in Christ. But what I will do with a person that is kind of struggling back and forth is I'm really trying to understand what their triggers are and that's where you get into The second main point there on page one, Roman numeral two, they must come to freedom in other areas of their lives. Resolving areas of rebellion, bitterness, hurt, hypocrisy, moral failure, worldly influences, unhealthy soul ties, and pride. There could be other issues in their life that need to be resolved, other strongholds that are kind of making their situation worse. The second thing there is healing the wounded parts of the person is of great importance. People medicate their woundedness with alcohol, drugs, sex, or whatever. And so for some people, as they continue to struggle, you have to begin to find out what are the root issues there. That's an opportunity to begin to get them to look deeper. and to understand, you know, what is the pain that you're medicating? What is the strongholds that are coming out of that pain? Um, and that need to be resolved. And, um, and then dealing with those, uh, um, with some of the tools, you know, that you guys have learned here, um, prayering, praying and renouncing and, and healing, um, prayers and things like that. And, uh, um, One of the things that I do, I can remember one man in particular, right now, off the top of my head, a few years ago, who was an alcoholic, that I worked with, and God's used this with other people too, but with him it was really powerful, and that he started, he was struggling, he would do okay for a little while, then he'd struggle, and he knew better, and that kind of what you were describing, and we just, we would just, read the scriptures that talked about his identity in Christ, that talked about him being a new creation, that talked about performance issues in his life, that talked about these different strongholds, that talked about Jesus bringing healing. I can remember one day, we just had like two hours of just scripture. Lies and thoughts would come up and he'd have questions for me. What about this? What about that? And God would give me a scripture and I'd share it with him. He'd be like, wow. And then something else would come up and I'd share a scripture with him and he'd be like, oh, okay. But God was using that in his life really to purify him and deal with a lot of those lies that were a part of his belief system. And he just got strengthened in his identity in Christ and strengthened in understanding, because he'd been to AA. He'd been down the 12-step road. And he really believed that that's who he was, that he was an alcoholic. He was always going to be an alcoholic, blah, blah, blah, blah. It took the scripture and God's spirit to break through that mindset and me to help him understand that he is a new creation in Christ and there is a part of him that does not want to do that and that's where Jesus dwells and he can learn to walk in that person. I just counseled his pastor and his pastor's wife and their son about two months ago. He's going to their church and he's really doing good. But I really saw, but again, I saw that repentance in him. I saw a willingness to receive the truth and God blessed him for that. So that's really important to understand that you're dealing with repentance, but you're also dealing with some of these other areas that are kind of driving their addiction. The third one is, he must grasp their true identity in Christ. And there's a strongholds of addiction chart in here somewhere. That's page five. And this, basically what this chart here is, and actually I should put, I should give credit to him, credits do, that's not in here. It should be Mike and Julia Quarles should be in here somewhere, put this together. Let me see if he put it in there. I didn't type this out, but I, okay, he did put it on one of them. But those last three charts, all our materials had gotten from Mike and Julia Quarles. But the strongholds of addiction, this chart here, is very useful in understanding what are some of the most common lies regarding a person's identity in Christ and the truth of who they are in Christ. And it talks about those different strongholds of hopelessness, guilt, self-help, insecurity. And these are a lot of the battles that people that are struggling with addictions have. And then there's a description there. The lies for the hopelessness is I'm a victim and helpless. I will never change. It's hopeless. It's different, and so is my problem. So it won't work for me. And that's, I mean, that guy that I was telling you about a few minutes ago, that alcoholic, I mean, he believed every one of those lies. Every one of them. The truth is that he's a victor in Christ. I am the righteousness of God in Christ. The truth sets you free regardless of the problem or person. And so I would take scriptures, as he would talk about these lies, and he'd bring them up. He would be talking about these things. And what I would do is I would just counteract with God's word. You know, and God's spirit was opening up his heart to the truth. And then the next one is guilt. I deserve to be punished and condemned. I cannot face the awful truth about myself. I'm a product of my past. And then again, the truth is there is no judgment in Christ. For those in Christ, I am a new creation. I am a product of the cross. And then self-help. People that struggle with addictions are very focused on them doing it. You know, it's kind of like all up to me. And so they're very behavior-orientated people. And a lot of them are trying to find acceptance through performance. And it kind of boils back down to that A trauma, where they never really have felt unconditional love in their life. They don't understand unconditional love. And so they have a lot of woundedness there in their heart. And they need to understand, you know, the lies are, if it's going to be, if it's going to be, it's up to me. God helps those who help themselves. If I change my behavior, it will change me as a person. And so there's a lot of focus on self and changing the person's behavior. Whereas only God can change me is the truth. God helps those who give up and trust in him. So there's a coming dying to self, and then if I change my beliefs, it will change my behavior, versus the opposite, which is changing my behavior, and then I'll change as a person. And then insecurity, people that struggle with addictions are very insecure, and so the lies that they struggle with are things like, I'm unworthy to be loved and accepted, I need someone to validate me as a person. I need someone or something to be secure. The truth is I am loved and accepted by God. I am one with Christ. He is in me and I am in him. I am eternally secure in Christ who will never forsake me. I have a person right now that I'm working with who has a sexual addiction and he had it for 20 some years and then He finally came to repentance, and he is grieved over his sexual sin, exactly like the scripture says in 2 Corinthians. So this shows you just how black and white it isn't. But he still doesn't really feel freedom yet, even though he has this repentance. And that's because he's kind of put off that sinful act. And he's lost his desire to do it. And he really has grieved over it as the Lord would want him to. But he's having a really difficult time putting on the new person in Christ. And the struggle there is this. The struggle is he's having a hard time really receiving that God loves him and accepts him. And really, the block there comes from some childhood trauma, some A trauma in his life, and a little bit of B trauma. And the way he found acceptance was through a sexual addiction. And so we've been parked on the whole issue of God loving him for close to a year now. and working through every lie and every wound that gets in the way of him receiving that Jesus loves him. Now his heart is definitely in the right place, and he's grieved over the sin, he's confessed the sin to his pastor, to his wife, he's got accountability, he's going to a small group for the sexual sin, He's a psychologist, he's seeing me. He is doing everything he can to get help. But what he really needs is somebody in his life that will demonstrate unconditional love to him. And I think that's why he keeps coming back to me. And this is what we've just been parked on. And the lies that he feels about himself are just so deeply rooted. And I really do believe that there's some memories that he's probably going to have to work through, and he's going to have to get more in touch with the Lord. But it takes time sometimes for people to begin to really grab a hold of some of these things and work through these lies. You know, I can remember that one situation, the alcoholic that I worked with, I mean, we went through the scriptures for two hours and broke off a lot of lies in his belief system. And God's word just really came alive to him. In fact, I think with him, he was a new Christian, I was using the New Living Translation with him, because it's about the only thing he could understand. And so he'd be like, could you go make me a copy of that? So I'd run, make a copy of my Bible, picture the scripture, and bring it back to him. And so he came back the next time and he's got all these photocopies of my Bible underlined. I was like, you can go buy one at Sam's for six bucks. And then he got criticized at church for buying one. He's like, you bought that Bible. He's like, it's just a Bible. He says, I understand it. And so, you know, just really dealing with those lies that are in a person's belief system can be a very powerful thing. And it really does boil down to, you know, helping them have a deeper understanding of their identity in Christ. Then number four there, they must acknowledge the daily struggle with their flesh. and live their lives according to the grace of God. Passages that I use for that are Romans chapter 6 is one. We talk a lot about Galatians 5. We talk a lot about Ephesians 2. We talk about Romans chapter 7, which is really a good passage for people to begin to understand the difference between their their flesh and the new person in Christ. Let me turn there. Let's see here. In verse 18, Paul writes, for I know that nothing good dwells within me that is in my flesh. I'll say I'll read that verse and they'll be shaking their heads, oh yeah, nothing's good within me. That is in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out. For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do, not desire to do, what I'm doing, and they're like, oh yeah, I can relate with that. Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it. And they kind of look at me kind of funny. I mean, the things that I don't want to do, it's not me doing it? It is not myself that acts, but the sin which dwells within me. It says in the parentheses here, in this translation, it says, fixed and operating in my soul. So I find it to be the law, the rule of action of my being, that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I'm subject to its insistent demands. For I endorse and delight in the law of God in my inmost self with my new nature, but I discern in my bodily members in the insensitive appetites and wills of the flesh, a different law, rule of action at war against the law of my mind, my reason, and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh." So here's this battle that's going on. And Paul's describing it within himself. And he makes a separation between how his flesh performed in sin and the new person in Christ. And so that's a very, very important thing for all of us to learn. But when we're talking about people that are struggling with addictions, they have to learn the difference between what it means to walk in the spirit and walk in the flesh. And that's a daily struggle for them, just like it is for any of us. And they have to learn to live their life according to the grace of God. They must experience love, joy, and peace in a daily love relationship with the Lord. And that's really important for them to grow in that daily relationship with the Lord. Acknowledge the the deal the reality the daily reality of Satan and resistance temptations. There's definitely a spiritual warfare Issue here where they're having to take authority over the enemy And Understand how Satan wants to tempt them. There's the temptations that come from without Which are the ant from the enemy the temptations of my flesh and people have to learn the difference there And then number seven, they must assume responsibility for his or her own spiritual maturity and freedom. And there is some scriptures here I'd like to have us read. One is Philippians chapter three. Let's see here. Philippians three, 13 through 14, it says, I do consider brethren that I have captured and made it my own, but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward." And then Galatians 5, 1. It says, in this freedom Christ has made us free and completely liberated us. Stand fast then and do not be hampered or held ensnared and submit again to the yoke of slavery for which you put it off. And so there's a responsibility upon the person to walk in that maturity, to walk in that freedom on their own. There's another chart here. kind of gives you the standard answer for addiction. And it's kind of an interesting way to look at it, between man's answer and God's answer for addiction. Programs for addiction have become very popular. Somebody had mentioned the 12 step program. I worked for a residential program for 12 and a half years and saw a lot of the failures that come from a program. It's really easy for people just to wanna do the treatment program or go through the program, but there's really not a change of heart. And really one of the things that is important in any kind of program is to make sure that you're addressing the issues of the heart. in counseling or in group or in teachings and studies that you're doing. The hard issues have to be addressed. Man's answer for addiction is a program designed to change the behavior of the person. The result is self-improvement. And that's kind of what you find many times. People will go to the program and they'll do the program for a month or whatever and they'll get clean and they'll start feeling good about themselves. A lot of the hard issues aren't dealt with. And then they need to consistently work on doing the right behavior. The dynamic is our commitment and performance. Summary, commitment to subject myself to a program of law or rules, steps, concepts, and principles through works be discipline, self-effort to strengthen the flesh, to improve self in order to produce dead works, or a behavior change. And that's typically the model that most programs follow, not consciously, but that's kind of when if issues of the heart are not being addressed, that's inevitable what's going to happen. And so there's a lot of external change, but really no heart change. And so we saw this in Teen Challenge. We'd see people stay there for a year, and they would really change. And there was a lot of external change that we saw. But then once they would leave the program, they'd wash out after a few weeks or a month or two months or whatever. And that's because a lot of the heart issues weren't addressed. And then when I got involved with Freedom in Christ, and started working through all those materials and started using that in Teen Challenge, we really began to start getting down to some heart issues. And that's really where I began to see the fruit take place in lives being changed because a lot of it was focused on, okay, you want to memorize these 30 verses this semester and you're going to learn all these Bible principles and then we're going to test you on it. You need to have 15 minutes of devotions in the morning, 15 minutes of devotions in the afternoon. You need to attend these classes and go to chapel and dress a certain way. We're going to cut your hair. We're going to make you wear a tie to church. That's kind of how the program was set up. It wasn't until we really incorporated dealing issues at a heart level that we really see any change. and began to really deal with those wounds and strongholds and those kinds of issues. God's answer is the cross. To put to death the person who does the behavior, the result is the new person with a new identity who behaves differently. Need to understand who we are so our behavior will match up with our identity. That's basically what I've been talking about already. Dynamic is the life of Christ. the life of Christ living and working through an individual. So the summary of that is death, I agree with God's verdict on self and give up on myself and my resources, and by grace, appropriate what God has done, and by faith, appropriate my death and resurrection with Christ, and by the Spirit, depend upon Christ's life in me to meet all my needs in order to produce life, good works, the fruit of the Spirit. A big difference there, isn't there? And that's really an excellent way to look at it, the differences between the approaches within a program to deal with addiction. On page 7 there, you're going to find the Overcomer's Covenant in Christ. And I'd just like to go over this with you. I don't know if that's there or not. I don't think it's in there. The Overcomer's Covenant in Christ is page seven. I place all my trust and confidence in the Lord. I put no confidence in the flesh and I declare myself to be dependent upon God. I consciously and deliberately choose to submit to God and resist the devil by denying myself, picking up my cross daily and following Jesus. And I give this to my clients that are struggling with addictions. And this is something I'm wanting them to read over every day and begin to incorporate from their heart these principles. I choose to humble myself before the mighty hand of God in order that he may exalt me at the proper time. So there's humility. God resists the proud, gives grace to the humble. And there's a definite humility and dependence upon the Lord. I declare the truth that I am dead to sin, freed from it, and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus since I have died with Christ and have been raised with him. I gladly embrace the truth that I am now a child of God who is unconditionally loved and accepted. I reject the lie that I have to perform in order to be accepted, and I reject my fallen and natural identity, which was derived from the world. I declare that sin shall no longer be master over me. because I am not under the law but under grace and that there is no more guilt or condemnation because I am spiritually alive in Christ Jesus. It's important for people that struggle with addictions to understand the difference between conviction and condemnation. Conviction is a work of the Holy Spirit that will always bring us to Jesus. Condemnation, I believe, comes from the enemy and is the accuser of the brethren. And when a person is under that accusation or condemnation, they want to hide from Jesus. They don't feel like they can come to Jesus. And so it's important to understand the difference between the two. And again, that's kind of another teaching thing. I'm wanting to help my clients learn to understand the difference between the two. What's conviction? What's condemnation? I renounce every unrighteous use of my body and commit myself to no longer be conformed to this world, but rather to be transformed by the renewing of my mind. I choose to believe the truth and walk in it, regardless of my feelings or circumstances. So there's a committing of the body and the parts of their body and so forth. I commit myself to take every thought captive, to make it obedient to Christ, and to choose to think about that which is true, honorable, right, pure, and lovely. And so there's a responsibility of taking thoughts captive. I commit myself to God's goal for my life, to conform to his image. I know that I will face many trials, but God has given me the victory. I'm not a victim, but an overcomer in Christ. And I choose to adopt the attitude of Christ, which means that I will do nothing. Out of selfishness or empty conceit, but the humility of mind I will guard. Others is more important than myself. I will not merely look out for my own personal interests, but also in the interests of others. I know that is more blessed to give than to receive." There's another chart that we did not go through, but it talks about the different activities there and toxic effects and withdrawals. That's just kind of a FYI kind of handout for you. Any questions at all on any of this? Already had a few, appreciate those questions. Like questions, helps draw things out of me sometimes. Yeah. Like frustration? Well, yeah. I was at a board meeting a couple weeks ago, and we were talking about what God is going to want me to do here in the next three or four years of my life and that kind of thing. And I told one of my board members, I said, you know, I still really love doing a lot of counseling for people that really want to get help. Um, yeah, let me, let me give you a passage here that has really just been real special to my heart. And it is a passage here that, um, uh, is in their repentance material. It's, um, uh, second Timothy chapter two. And, um, uh, we can start in verse 23. There were a couple people in the church here, Hymenaeus and Philetus, who had began to sow in some false doctrine, and they were not really wanting to repent of their heresy. And Paul begins to give Timothy some guidance on how to deal with people that are difficult. And he says, but refuse And I'm going to, again, read some of the parentheses here in this Amplified. It says, but refuse, shut your mind against, have nothing do with trifling, ill-informed, unedifying, stupid controversies over ignorant questionings, for you know that they foster strife and breed quarrels. So I don't want to, you know, I don't want to, you know, get into it with people that don't agree with maybe some of the things I'm trying to do to help them. It says that the servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, fighting and contending. Instead, he must be kind to everyone and mild-tempered, persevering in the bond of peace. He must be a skilled and suitable teacher, patient and forbearing and willing to suffer wrong. He must correct his opponents with courtesy and gentleness in the hope that God may grant that they will repent and come to know the truth. And so I'm still gentle, I'm still courteous, I'm kind. But there are some times, even in the kindness and gentleness, I'll just say, you know, why don't we just take some time off from working through this right now? I just don't really feel like you're ready, you know, right now to work through this. You know, so why don't we take a few weeks off, or a month off, and then we'll schedule you to come back, and that kind of thing. It really kind of depends on the situation. I don't, kind of how I do it is some people I schedule one appointment at a time based on where they're going. You know, if they're, If I'm really concerned about their willingness to work through the issues, I'll schedule them one appointment at a time. If I get somebody that is really serious about getting help, I'll schedule them out. And so what ends up happening is the people that really want to get help, they'll fill up my schedule for almost two months, month and a half. And so the people that aren't really serious, they're going to end up having to wait a lot longer to come back anyway. And so my hope in that time frame is that God will deal with them and get them to that place where they're really willing to want to work through some things. But I typically schedule those people one appointment at a time. But there are some times where I feel like, you know what, I've done all I could do to help you. You know, I just, you know, but most people, you know, most people really don't, when you begin to force issues, some people counsel differently. Some people counsel do more listening than confronting. I'll listen, but then I'll confront or I'll say, this is what you need to work on. And sometimes I'll give them homework and I'll say, you know, why don't you work on this assignment? And then when you're done with it, give me a call back. You know, and so that's another thing, you know, that you can do. And I've done that with some people. I'll say, why don't you read this book, and then give me a call back when you're done. So that's kind of like a test for them, to see how serious they are. In a kindly way. Well, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that there's intervention in those situations where you have to show some tough love. And they really need to, you know, sometimes church discipline, you know, needs to be a part of that process. But also providing, you know, if you're going to provide church discipline, you also need to provide an out for them to get some help, you know. And so, but the concept of, of confrontation, you know, when it comes to the local church is, you know, it's something that is to be redemptive in nature, you know. But yeah, you have to draw boundaries with those types of people because they can, you know, they can run over you, you know. And they struggle with lying and deceiving and stealing and all sorts of other kinds of sins. And sometimes you have to protect the family. You have to come up with some sort of intervention plan of how you're going to confront the issue. But you have to have everybody together on the same page. In fact, that's what makes the Second Corinthians repentance so effective, is that they were all on the same page in confronting the sin of incest. And so everyone has to be on the same page. So you're talking about the church leadership, the pastor, the wife. They all have to be on the same page as far as an intervention that would need to be done. Part of that intervention in a local church would include church discipline. But also a redemptive plan. You need to counsel with Bob Allison for whatever. you know, as a part of the header, whatever, you know. Some people need to, some people do need to get away, you know. You know, Teen Challenge was a place that, I know they have several here in Texas. You know, Teen Challenge was a fairly effective ministry because it would get people out of their home and away so they could work, do some things, you know. And it was an effective tool. And sometimes residential programs can be a good option. But you have to kind of come up with a plan. But everyone has to be on the same page. I think, well, it's hard to just say one. I definitely feel that discernment is important. I think sympathy is important. I think being skillful in the word of God is important. Those three would probably be the top three, maybe, off the top of my head. I think that you have to You know, you have to have good discernment, you know, to understand what are the root issues, what's demonic, what's the flesh, you know, that kind of thing. So that's like a spiritual gift almost. I think that God can use people that have that gifting very powerfully in counseling. I think sympathy is really important too, you know, being able to understand people at a heart level. is important. And I think being skillful in the word, you know, to have a real good understanding of God's word and how to use it, you know, not to use it as a hammer, okay, but to use it to come alongside and allow the Holy Spirit to use it in people. That's right. Yeah, need doesn't constitute a call. There's a lot of need. That's huge. I mean, it is just, I think I shared last night about the Bethlehem Bible studies in a couple of churches on the north side of Indianapolis and they just had to end it because it was just throwing up too much stuff and there wasn't enough people to help. I mean, I was just like, wow. So, I don't know, you know, I mean, I'm glad you folks are all here. You know, there's just such a huge need. Where I see it, it's just really getting down to the root issues. I mean, there's so much stuff, so much counseling where, you know, it's good, it's even biblical, but it's really not even getting, it's not really getting down to where people live in their hearts and what's really, what's going on at a heart level. And, you know, and I'm just grateful and thankful that You know, God's call in my life has been to do that. I mean, that's kind of always been my call. My purpose in life has been to help hurting people. And, you know, and for a period of my life, that was working in Teen Challenge, which was a great preparatory time for what I do now. But, you know, I could see me doing this for the rest of my life. I mean, there's no doubt about that. I just really could see myself counseling. in doing this for the rest of my life. So I just need to pace myself so I don't get all burned out. Yes, ma'am. Yes. Yeah. Working with them or just being with them? To others? Oh, yeah, yeah. That's kind of when people bring like a support person with them. That's kind of how it works in a sense. Sometimes they're a part of a small group. And then their person will come with them to the counseling. Is that kind of what you're thinking? Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. Do I solicit it? I have, yeah. I have. I'm speaking to some home group leaders the 28th of November, actually. I'm going to do a session with them to try to encourage them, actually. in this area. There's a church, it's really kind of an interesting dynamic. They have like 200 people that are part of a bunch of home churches, but they all come together once a week. It's really kind of an interesting dynamic. And I've heard about it, so it'll be interesting to see how that works out. But I'm supposed to be sharing here in a couple weeks with all the home group leaders of what they can do to help minister to those needs. I think it's a good opportunity. A lot of where I see God using me is to try to connect with church leadership. To kind of supplement what we're doing. I've had a real strong burden, desire to do that. And God's opened up relationships. But it comes through relationships. You just can't have a program and then this is what's going to happen. It really does come from relationships that are built. And that's happened, but, you know, there's just such a great need out there. Well, usually below that surface problem are there some root problems that are needing to be addressed. And so that's usually what God's trying to do. God's trying to, you know, deal with those root issues in their life. Many others could be some wounds from their childhood. you know, and how they've dealt with those wounds, pride, or down end, or bitterness, you know, those kinds of things. Yeah, there's usually about three or four. When somebody comes for counsel, there's usually about three or four really, really important, I would call them root issues that need to be addressed. So that's kind of what I'm doing. I'm looking to discern and understand what are those issues And where would the Lord be leading us? And I pray for that. I pray that God would lead us and guide us, give me wisdom, give them a heart of understanding, that kind of thing. Yes, ma'am. That would be, that kind of comes underneath addiction. But it's a little more complex than that because it's something that you have to do every day. You have to eat. But I'm learning more and more about that and how to help people with that. It's an addiction, but there's also a lot of healing, inner healing and relationship building that needs to take place, too. You know, that is a great question. You know, I mean, I was just thinking about it. The only resource that I have, well, we've had several books over the years. My wife had an eating disorder up until about 10 years ago. In fact, that's how we got into this whole thing. was she went through the steps to freedom and read the bondage breaker and she was still struggling with bulimia at that time and and she was you know understood the lies of the enemy and how Satan was kind of driving that thing and there was a demonic aspect to that that was dealt with through going through the steps to freedom and her Understanding spiritual warfare and not all her thoughts for her thoughts and that kind of thing and she she became great She hasn't struggled with Lena and over 10 years now But but there's still You know, but there's still other issues, you know that need to be dealt with relationally and in childhood woundedness and things like that and so there's You know, I think that just the basics of resolving, you know, some of these resources we've talked about, the Life Model, you know, Bondage Breaker, Retaining a Certain Ground, I think those were all good things to understand in addressing that. No one has really taken all this material and related it to an eating disorder. I don't know a book out there yet. I don't think there's one. The only book, you know, Somebody says, well, maybe, Jeff, your wife's been through it. Maybe you and your wife could put together a book or something like that. I don't know. Maybe God would have that someday. But I think there's still a lot of the stories still being written. But 90% of the more severe eating disorders that you have, about 90% of those, there's been some sort of sexual abuse. It's pretty high. That was a statistic I heard out of Vanderbilt University a couple months ago. Uh-huh. Yeah, it's a control issue. But a lot of times there's some sort of sexual abuse there. And so, you know, for your more severe eating disorders, anorexia, you know, in particular anorexia. But, you know, really there isn't anything. I'm trying to think of the only book I have on my shelf is a book by McGee, by Rafa. on eating disorders. We have several others, but I think they're all packed away. I don't think they're going to really benefit anybody. I've been having my clients read the Life Model and learn about breaking through the fear-bonding issues in their life and learning their identity in Christ and how to understand the battle between the flesh and the spirit and understand spiritual warfare. I've been kind of working on those kinds of issues with people that have eating disorders. Usually the more severe ones are very isolated. They isolate themselves tremendously. But usually there's far deeper issues than just the eating disorder that needs to be dealt with. Any other questions? I have a counseling form where I have different areas that I want to get information on. some information on their family background. I'll have some information on, you know, medications that they're taking, hospitalizations, that kind of thing. And then I begin to, as I'm dialoguing with them and talking to them about their problems, I'll have different issues that I begin to discern that are part of their life, you know, like bitterness or pride or you know, unhealthy soul ties are some of these issues that our school discusses. And then I'll have another section there, I call it Deep Restoration, where I'm going to evaluate the A and the B trauma in their life. And then make some notes and begin to understand what needs to be worked through there. But it's not, it's more something that I do, I do have a couple things, you know, that I've put together, but I haven't, I don't really use them. I try to be as you know, is natural as I can be when I'm talking to people. And so if I'm going off, so a lot of the questions I've kind of, I kind of just kind of, just come off the top of my head, you know. So that's one thing I'm really, without having a legalistic approach to it, I am wanting to be a little bit more systematic in what I do. That's kind of my goal. We put together a marriage counseling model this past year and we're beginning to send that out to our clients and using it in our office. But we're wanting to put together a couple other models too. My wife keeps telling me we have to have an abuse model needs to be put together and she's right. And so that's probably the next one. And then I want to put together a men's issues, kind of a men's issue kind of model too. Cause that's the three primary issues that I counsel is marriage, men and abuse. So I want to have a model for each one and kind of what are some of the things that we're going to address, what things need to be dealt with and understood and that kind of thing.