Father, we do thank you for this day. We thank you for your call upon our lives. We thank you, Father, you've put us in families and that as we are married and begin to have children that you give us responsibilities and duties and privileges and the joy of rearing our children. And then as we get older, that we have some of those same responsibilities and duties and privileges and joys of caring for our parents. And so as we talk about these things today, Father, we ask that you would give us wisdom and insight and encourage us in taking care of our parents as a need arises. We ask it, Father, in Jesus' name. Amen. I want to start by reading a poem here. Even before I do that, I can see that we have the choir here today, meaning all of you who have experience in this field. Let me read this poem. It's called, Full Circle. It seems the roles of parent and child are reversed during the later years. Now it's me giving comfort and care to the one who used to dry my tears. The hands that helped me take my first steps now hold firmly to me as we walk. The voice that patiently taught me speech now trembles in an effort to talk. The one whose memory used to challenge mine to learn and remember each detail now struggles to recall my birthdate and my children's names to no avail. I've heard people claim it's not their job to care for their parents who are old. They pay someone else to do that task and keep from putting their life on hold. I contend it's not a sacrifice but a privilege to be giving to parents who not only gave life but made it a life well worth living. Now, as adult children, we need to understand that changes take place. We know that with our own kids. But as we age and our parents age, there's a kind of a role reversal that begins to occur there. And that's something we need to think about, be prepared for. And I know all of you have experienced this and are in the midst of this to some degree or other. We might start, I kind of want to organize here my part. What we're going to do is I'm going to kind of give a short presentation here, and then Debbie's going to talk for a little bit. And then I think maybe what I'd like to do is just kind of have a share a little bit, because we've each experienced this in different degrees and different ways and so on. And I think that would be valuable to all of us. And hopefully if we have time, we can even pray together a little bit for each other for this. So I kind of want to organize my part of this along the who, what, why, where, and when only. We're going to do it in this order instead of the more standard order. We might start with why. Why should we do this? And this poem kind of gave a start to that, a brief introduction, but there's a couple of passages we really should look at. Deuteronomy 5.16, a familiar passage. It says, Honor your father and your mother as the Lord your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the Lord your God has given you. You know, a passage we're familiar with, but often it's hard for us to work out, what does that mean to honor our parents? And you know, in our case, and for many of you I'm sure, our parents were not believers. How do we go about honoring them? And I think this is a big part of it. This is a recognition, as the poem said here, it's a privilege to be giving to parents who not only gave life, but made it well worth living. They brought us into this world. They took care of us. They taught us most of, a great many of the things that we know. We are a reflection of them in a great many ways. And so it is that we have the privilege in honoring them to care for them and help them in their later years. Another verse, 1 Timothy 5.8. But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." I often talk with people about, you know, what's the priority of things in our life? And I often look to the Ten Commandments. Obviously, those are big priorities. But this one, this is a very strong statement here, and places this at a very high priority, to care for our own. It's something that I think we need to think about and prepare for and plan for and, you know, when we're young we just want to do our thing and we're all tied up taking care of our children and all those sorts of things. But as we get older, we need to be thinking of our parents and their needs as well and knowing that the day may very well come when we will have to be very intimately involved in their lives. And for a lot of us in our parents' generation, they have this fierce desire for independence. And so that's something we'll talk a little bit about. So it kind of keeps us from being involved to some degree. My folks moved off to Arizona and, you know, they like having their own life over there and they're quite content to come and see us once in a while. But that independence is important to them and even with Debbie's mom very close, that independence is extremely important to her. So as we think about how we go about this and what we're going to be doing, we're going to be sacrificing. It's something that's going to require sacrificing of our time. Surrendering of our own plans in order to help them. Making major adjustments to our life in many cases. I know we spend a fair amount of time traveling back and forth and seeing Debbie's mom and could very well In time, become much more than that. So for some of you, you're already in the midst of much greater time commitments and commitments of resources and so on with regard to your parents. It's really a matter of comparing, you know, it's not a, we think of the inconvenience of it and sometimes even it seems impossible that we could do what needs to be done, but it really is a matter of doing that which is right and that needs to be done. And of course our children are going to learn from our example. If we want to have that ongoing good relationship with our children as we get old and have expectations or at least the seeds of that planted in them, our example is important for them to see that, how we love and care for our parents. So that's kind of the who. Well, the when varies considerably. You just don't know. It could be that, you know, it's a gradual, very gradual process as it has been with us and our parents. It could be a very abrupt process starting, you know, with a stroke or something, loss of a parent. And depending on which one and what kind of responsibilities they had, you know, maybe as in our case with Debbie's folks that, you know, Debbie's father passed on first and her mom didn't know anything about finances and legal matters and all that sort of stuff and so we immediately became involved in those sorts of things. So you just don't know and it's going to vary depending on your family and what the Lord's plans and purposes are for them. But in any case, we should plan on it because it's likely to come to all of us in due time. It's likely to come to all of us. Where? Where's a good question. How do you go about that? And the decision process of where is a difficult one. Our parents, they said this independence thing becomes involved. They want to stay at home. They want to be in their place as long as they possibly can be. And that's a good thing in many ways. It's their life, and it's their independence, and it gives them choices and freedom to do the things that they choose to do. But the time comes when hopefully When they can't get around, then you have to make some serious choices. What will they do? You know, anyone considering becoming a caregiver, one of the things would be to have them in your own home. And anyone considering that, you know, needs to be able to provide for them physically, perhaps financially, emotionally, time-wise. There's a whole variety of commitments there that need to be considered. And, you know, as we think about our lives and prepare for that eventuality, We do need to plan and care for it. One of the things we've done, we moved, we bought a much bigger place, knowing that the time was coming in our lives when we may have one of our parents moving in with us, or our kids, as the case may be. So those are part of that planning process. We are part of a larger community, as we've heard this week over and over, part of a larger church. and representing to the world what love is really about and what Christ's call upon us is about. So assisted living and adult foster care and retirement communities are all options, but they're difficult struggles and need to be looked at. When we look at who, that really depends a lot on which one goes first or which ones are having trouble, but by and large, For most of us, these guys are out working. And so a lot of the burden falls on our wives. They're the routine ones. They spend by far the most time. You will spend by far the most time doing that. And so there are needs there. As guys, we need to be supportive of that. We need to be encouraging of that. We need to say, this is the right thing. We need to do this and need to be involved to the extent we can traveling. And it takes our time and commitment Backing that up just very solidly and so that's very important on the who side of things. But what, you know that can vary tremendously. But I would say that, oh let me back up just a second here on the when, something I missed. The when in terms of planning. One of the things that we can do is start communications about these things early. And we need to be talking with our parents. What are their desires? What are their goals? What are their dreams? What if this happens? What do you want to have done? And that gets into areas such as assets. What's going to happen to assets someday if something happens? And how to prepare for that. medical care, if they're in the hospital and under what conditions they want medical care or not medical care, who's going to direct that medical care. These things need to be done up front. You don't want to wait until you're in the midst of them. They need to be done up front. Living wills are excellent for that because they make you walk through all this stuff and fill out all this down and getting it written down. Very good thing. And very often, with both of our parents, neither had living wills until we started talking to them about it. And finally, with Debbie's folks, I said, look, we'll pay for it. Yeah. I mean, a living trust. A living trust, yeah. Sorry, yeah. A living trust. And that really is important. And it gets you all sitting down, talking, thinking about it. It helps them to write down a list of where all their assets are and what all things will need to be done if anything should happen. And so, strongly encourage all of us to be involved in that if we haven't done so already. Powers of attorney, and Debbie's going to talk a little more about medical issues and day-to-day things that go on there. Some people actually do a living will addendum for Christians, something they might think about. If a parent's in the hospital and is going to be there for a while, what kind of things do they want? If they're in a coma, what do they want? Debbie has an example from a book and it talks about things such as They want people to pray with them, to speak to them, even if they are in a coma. Speak to them, include them as part of the conversation. Play Christian music. These sorts of things can be put down in an addendum to a living will and they can be shown to medical personnel and so on. Yeah, so something to think about. Funeral arrangements are another one. preparing for those in advance. When somebody dies, the laws in different states vary as to how things go and a funeral home will take care of everything. Arrangements are made in advance. That's not the time you wanna be finding out what the laws are and looking into things. You want that stuff done in advance. Okay, let's see. My time is just about up here. Let me say just a little more here about the what. Talked about the living will. Finances, I touched on briefly, may end up taking over financial responsibility. Sometimes that includes investments and assets. And you want all that stuff down in advance. You want to know what it is and where it is. And if you need signature authority on things, all that sort of stuff needs to be done. If there's investments that need to be tracked and managed, you need to have access to them. Now, all kinds of practical things you just don't think about until you're in the midst of it. If they are able to stay at home, there's issues that come up. They're not able to do a lot of things. So there's home maintenance sorts of things that go on. And if they have the resources, then they may contract a lot of those things out. Then family, you know, family members get involved in doing it. And, you know, that gets you involved. Perhaps if you have brothers and sisters, who's gonna do what? And the whole family gets involved in this process. And so, that's something to be concerned and thinking about preparing for as well. I think I'll go ahead and turn it over to Debbie there. That's kind of an introduction and the background and the big picture of things. And Debbie's going to talk a little more about day-to-day and emotional needs and sort of things that she's experienced with her mom. OK. First of all, I wanted to introduce you to this book here. A book given to me by a friend shortly after my father died, and it was going to be obvious. That was five years ago. He passed away in September 2003. And that's kind of when our journey with my mother began. This is called A Christian's Guide to Caring for Aging Parents, Changing Places. by Betty Benson Robertson. This is an excellent introductory tool here. It has charts in the back, things that you would be considering, such as funeral planning form, home safety checklist for your elderly parent, monthly meal planner, various things, a medical chart. A medical chart is something I use a lot with my mom. My mom turned 90 in January. As with every passing year, her needs change and grow. At any rate, what I wanted to say here was there is a time for everything and a season for every activity under heaven. There may be a time for you to change from being your parent's child to your parent's parent. And that's what I'm experiencing with my mom. And it's pretty much inevitable if you have parents that this will come to you. And as I was talking to Pam on the way over here, when we're done with our parents, it may be somebody else in our lives and possibly our spouses. As adult children, we often think or avoid thinking that your parents will ever get old. We say to ourselves, I know we did this with my father. We said, well, just look at him. He's 80 years old and he's out digging a ditch in the backyard or he's digging a hole in the backyard. Or with John's parents, we say, he'll never get old. He's playing golf five days a week. But the truth of it is, is that our parents will get old and they will change. And it's important that we begin to accept that and begin to make preparations for it. And I'm going to explain some of the things that I have observed with my mom and the ways that they do begin to change. They will become less inclined to do the things that they always enjoyed doing. Because it hurts physically, it's just too tiring, or often mentally they're just not able to cope with it or do the things that they'd been able to do regularly. Your parents' mental and emotional capacity to cope with routine responsibilities may begin to diminish, such as paying bills, keeping a checkbook, making doctor's appointments, Even evaluating whether it's necessary to go to the doctor. A lot of times I'll talk to my mom and I'll say, well, golly, mom, that wound on your leg looks terrible. I think we should have the doctor look at it. Oh, you think so? We need to step up to the plate and make decisions for our parents that we were surprised that we need to To tell them, I find that with my mom. Things that she used to tell me, I find myself being in the position of telling her. And it's not helpful for me to say to her, well, mom, don't you remember? Because she doesn't remember. And she told me that the other day. She said, I wish you wouldn't say that to me. After all is said and done, there are really only two choices regarding change. We either face it openly and decide upon a response, that is we begin to plan for change and we begin to plan for it and on it. Or we become dragged through change in spite of ourselves. That as change is coming, ready or not, we need to begin to face it. It can feel overwhelming to watch the ones who were authority figures during our childhood requiring more and more help from us. Some of the things I've experienced in caring for my mom, who is still living in her own home, and that's basically been our experience, is that my mother lives about 35, 40 minutes away from us by car. Of course, I'm not going to be walking. But anyway, are her medical needs. You may find yourself needing to plan on being intimately involved in your parents' health, sickness, and hospitalization needs. And for that, one thing that I found that is really necessary is getting an authorization to release health information. The doctors by law in Oregon are not required or not even permitted to give you health information regarding your loved one. If you find yourself now that, as far as I have been told, and I was going to double check this, I don't believe they're even by law permitted to give you health information about your spouse. If in the event they're not able to speak for themselves, you need to have that health authorization form with you. I carry it with me all the time when I'm with my mom. And even in the car. making and taking mom to appointments, taking notes during doctor's visits, and keeping the notes faithfully in a notebook. I go into a doctor's appointment. The doctors, a lot of times, they'll ask my mother questions about, well, were you in here for this and that before? And my mother doesn't know. I'll say to the doctor, well, you know, mom has congestive heart failure. And she'll look at me and she'll say, I do? My heart is fine. I go, yeah, mom, you've had it for a number of years. It's important to carefully listen to her complaints prior to appointments. So, I can fill in when I go to a doctor's appointment what she has omitted from telling the doctor. that I need to be an advocate for her medical care in the event the doctor overlooks something or ignores something. And recently I said to my mom, you know, I don't think that doctor is listening. And I think that it's important that we change doctors. She said, that's fine. She wasn't committed to this doctor. And I went ahead and I changed. And I've been pleased for the change. Medications. Keeping track of prescriptions for your loved one. And ordering more prescriptions when necessary. And my mother's eyesight is failing. She has macular degeneration. So I fill two weeks worth of pill bottles for her, or pill boxes. Treatments. My mother has lymphoma. So when she goes in for chemotherapy treatments, I sit with her. it's a blessing to do so and it's a blessing to her we just sit you know and I talk or you know once in a while we'll watch a movie on a on the computer or something of that nature insurance insurance can be a big a It can be a big pain. Medicare. My mother has Medicare, but she also has retiree insurance from my father's retirement plan. And there's a lot of times the retiree insurance doesn't want to pay for the pharmacy. So for a while there, trying to navigate through that was really difficult. They thought that she was on Medicare Part D, and it took me nine months to sort it out. These are things you just don't expect. Travel plans. We need to consider my mom's immediate health and emotional needs when we plan on being out of town. We make arrangements with my brother and our children to be available to help her. And at the very least to call and visit because I'm her primary caregiver even though she doesn't live in my home and she suffers when I'm not there. Observing mental and physical and emotional changes. I note with my mother forgetfulness and I know how she forgets. She, I hope you're my timekeeper. Okay. It's not just that she will repeat the same story once at the beginning of the conversation and then at the end, or maybe what has happened the day before, but also I notice that she's beginning to mispronounce words, or she uses the wrong word. It might be a very similar sounding word, but she completely uses the wrong word. I observe her pain, the various pains she has, and that she fatigues easily. She sleeps more during the day. The necessity of keeping tabs on minor injuries, as I noted before. Finding resources or devices that will assist in maintaining her independence, because independence to my mother is It's almost a religion to be independent. Recently, she needed to sell her car because her eyesight is so poor. It's been a mourning process for her to lose her car and all that that signifies. finding devices that will help her maintain her independence. In the case of my mom, she has a magnifying glass. She has a large screen magnifier. And she has a clock called a moshi, which tells her the time. She uses talking books for entertainment, as well, of course, the television. being thoughtful of mom's emotional needs by talking with her every day by phone and visiting her once a week. This includes doctor's appointments, taking her to the grocery store, going to lunch, other diversions, making, giving her something to look forward to and telling her we're going to go with the kids to the zoo, you know, when we get back from camp, that kind of thing. listening patiently to her and being wise about not saying everything I think or talking about things which might hurt her feelings. Sometimes, if I'm going to be involved with the kids or the grandkids, I just don't tell her. Because it's like, well, you spend all this time with them and you don't spend that much time with me. And it just hurts her. For loved ones who would appreciate it, praying for and reading the Bible is an excellent and comforting thing to do. Now that's something my mother would say is a no-no. Everybody's situation is different. Now I wanted to talk a little about coping with the responsibilities of being a caregiver and give you some scriptures to help out there. many of these, of course, praying and reading God's Word on a daily basis. Matthew 11, 28 says, Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. And I think especially those of you who have your loved ones in your home, rest and peace are They're very, very important. And prayer is invaluable, relying on the Lord in that. Philippians 4, 6 through 7, do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your request to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your mind in Christ. Peace is Something we all need. 1 Peter 5, 7, cast all your anxiety on him. Caring for loved ones can be very Well, there can be a lot of anxiety involved in it if we don't rely and cast those anxieties on Christ. Reading God's Word daily, at the very least. Even better is to make a study of portions of it on your own or to involve yourselves in a Bible study. I attend Bible study fellowship. That's a shameless plug. There are other Bible studies. Precepts by K. Arthur. If you can find a Bible study, I know I have at one point I I was talking to Rachel a number of years back when I first started in Bible study fellowship. And I said to her, it's not that I'm spending time studying the Bible. I'm investing the time to study the Bible. And I told her, too. I said, I'm investing in your children's future. And I believe that with all my heart. How many? OK. I think I'm almost done. The Bible is the heart of God. Remember that God and his words are inseparable. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. So I think I'll just leave that part there. Three, in coping with your responsibilities as a caregiver for your parent or parents, laugh. Laugh with your parent as much as you can. Even when mom is really, really sick and she got really, really sick, was feverish and this was like in February. She still maintained her sense of humor and it was such a blessing to me. I could rib her and she would laugh. Exercise. Get regular exercise at least three times a week. I belong to curves and I haven't been going. But I realize now that the kids are coming to live with this that I got to get back in there. And some of the potential benefits are aerobic and muscle building. of aerobic and muscle exercise are building and increasing stamina and strength. And when we're dealing with loved ones intimately, stamina and strength are very important. Another benefit of exercise is greater resistance to stress, anxiety, and fatigue. It helps you to sleep better, improves your mental health, and helps to reduce risk of your own illness. You want to stay healthy when you're working with your loved ones. And of course, a radiant appearance. Number five, accept help. If somebody offers to help you with your loved one, don't say, oh, it's OK, I don't need help. Accept help. We all need help. And a friend or a relative who offers wouldn't offer if they didn't want to help. And remind your loved ones that others can help in their care. I know with my mom, she'll say, well, I thought you would want to go to that doctor's appointment with me. Jim is going to take me, and I thought you would want to go. And your loved one needs to remember that you are not the only one who can care for them. So finally, from Philippians 2.5, your attitude should be the same as of Christ Jesus. For even the Son of Man did not come to serve, but to be served. The latter part of that scripture was from Mark 10.45. So be encouraged in this. From James 1 12 blessed is the man and woman who perseveres under trial Because when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him So God bless I might just note there, based on these talks this week too and on the last point that Debbie said here about accepting help, we found with Debbie's folks, with her mom in particular, that involving people from the church and helping her, like in daily yard keeping and bringing over, she doesn't want to go out and shop around and find people. And if we can make a recommendation, she loves it. And she loves seeing the cheerful young people from the church come over and be involved. And it's just a real blessing to her and to us and to the kids. And so, you know, it goes back to this whole thing that we are about, you know, God's witness to the world in this and all who are involved. OK, well that's kind of what we wanted to share. I'm sure there are things that we have not touched on that many of you have experienced. And so I'd like to give you an opportunity to share with us a few minutes, maybe things that you have. Yes? I was just thinking recently that sometimes it's hard when you're in a position like we are. You mentioned being their parent. The roles change and everything, but at the same time, You're not acting like a parent, but even though you're doing some of the things, there's still the parent. Can you give an example of one that would be hard? Maybe you need to tell them what to do. Well, I think those things occur in a lot of places. And just Debbie's example of her having to let go of her car. Debbie actually, she knew that her eyesight was getting so bad she shouldn't be driving. She went to the eye doctor. The eye doctor wouldn't say anything about it. It's not by law that you don't have to be certified to be able to use a person's eyesight. He said you're legally blind. But he came up with certain medicine. And I say to my mom, well, what do you think, Mom? It's a decision you need to make. And I know that she's going to go, well, whatever you decide. But it's a respect. And not talking condescendingly. I have heard people talk to their parents like they were through both. And it's not necessary. It's not respectful, and they know where you're speaking from. My mother is not, it's been an adventure. She probably is. Starting to. But it's just not, just think about the tone you're speaking from, and how you speak to a three-year-old. And another thing you don't wanna do is for you and your husband to discuss her options and decisions and things, especially in her presence in any way because if she gets the sense that you are, yeah, or trying to manage her life or you got trouble. So you gotta be careful about that. Because with my sister and I and our parents, there are certain things that if they come from me, it's much better. And there are some things that they can't do. So you have to really think about it. and analyze how they respond to different people and who's the best, who's the one you get to do what you want them to do without them knowing that's what you're doing. a unique way of being a parent. And so, you know, we're all talking to him like a grandchild from the start. You know, he cherishes you. But maybe, did you know, you know, talking to your dad about that, getting him to get to speak up, there are certain things that they'll want you to do. Yeah. But, like the things that I've experienced based on David's experience with his parents, And just for all of us, if you don't have long-term insurance, sometimes you should take care of it. My folks didn't, it wasn't even on the horizon that they should have long-term insurance. They got a call and read an article about it, and maybe we should do that. My dad, at the time, was thinking, you know, I've had a heart attack for 50 years. I'm going to be the first to go anyway. And my dad can't, almost can't stop thinking how black the industry is, and how promising it is. But it is black. It is too black. And one of the decreases in people's gender are unacceptable. Huh. So the lesson is, you know, invest in it. Yeah, the labor. Any other things? Anybody else? If we had a power of attorney and we had an advance directive for her, she would have her wishes. But when she went into the nursing home, the nursing home had a sign, their own advance directive. But their own advance directive He served ours. And we didn't realize that until it was too late. And I really do believe her death was caused because of their interpretation of it. And that was just, by the time we realized what was happening, it was too late. They didn't transfer her. She would have died anyway. Well, granted, she was 100. But still, they were very, very, very excited about it. I was very careful with you. I would almost say, on their specific one, say, preserve a life. Because you can always come then with the one drawn up by the attorney, and we probe them with time. All power is stripped from us, and they make those decisions. And if we can, they can speak for us. If they interpret it, we give them. And that is what it says. That would be what it says. You really have to be careful. There's an awful lot of paperwork that happens. Until you're in the middle of it, you just can't believe how much paperwork there is. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I was just getting additional information that I didn't understand. Yes. That's really good. Well, you kind of answered that. Some of these terms I'm not familiar with, because we kind of had to go there. The living trust. Yeah, living trust. The advanced directive and the authorization for mental health release and all that. That's all through an attorney. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. Yeah, 1,000 to 2,000, maybe 3,000, depends on who and where and when. I've heard that on legalforms.com or legalzoom.com that you can draw even a living trust on those, and they're not as expensive. Now, they didn't even have such a thing available when we sat down with John's But the authorization for health information, you've got to sign those for different places and different doctors. It means that when you go to your parent's primary care facility that they will give you information and you will be able to give input. The one you sign when you go there allows the doctor to talk to other doctors and other medical people and insurance. But for them to talk to you, you have to have a different piece of paper. It's hard to know every time. It's hard to remember who's got it and who doesn't. And even if you talk to somebody on the telephone, they'll go, well, is your mother there with you? And sometimes I have to say, no, she's not, because she just lives in the same home. And they'll go, well, I can't give you that information. Yeah. And then I think we have a complicated definition of a living trust or a living will. There's a complete definition. Yeah, the living will is something contained typically in the trust, or you can have it set up separately. But the living will, what's the reference for? And the trust is more of an overall thing that's financial and, yeah. You didn't really talk about it, but when, when somebody dies, you know, if there's a will, that kind of says what's gonna happen. But if, but it goes to court, the court and the probate and all that. But in the will, if you have a living trust, then you don't have to go through probate. It doesn't go to court. It all passes to your heirs assuming it's under a certain amount of money, a million dollars or something. I don't know what it is, but it's. And it's good for husbands and wives to have this as well. It's tucked away so that if something happens to your spouse, they're unconscious, they're not able to make decisions, you have the right and authority to say, do this, do this, do this. And you have the legal power to do that. And obviously, the same would go for parents as well. A regular power of attorney is like you have the legal right to sign things for them, to sign checks, to sign in their stead legal documents. So they're really very separate things. And the legal power of attorney I don't know that they would accept that as taking the place of a medical power. The nice thing about it, like I said, if you go through a lawyer with a living trust, they sit down and they walk through all these things with you and it pretty much forces you to sit down with your parents and to walk through all those questions. Because there's a whole bunch of stuff. And so they think about it. They make the decisions. You get it down on paper. Everybody knows. And it's a very, very good tool for that. Yes. Yes. to have an intervention, where we sat her down and said, Mom, this is really not an option for you, because you're taking away something that we want to do for you. And there's four of us instead of just one of you. We really have to sit her down and say, You don't get to go to a nursing home. You can pick one of us, and the rest of us will help. And so we really kind of forced her into choosing that. But if we hadn't done that, she would have checked herself into a nursing home, and it would have been boring. So I just kind of want to encourage people that sometimes, if you want to receive to understand who the parents are. And she really didn't want to be a nurse at home. She really didn't want to do that. She really didn't want to be a mom. But she didn't want to force. It felt awfully like, to the end, we actually had to subjugate, get together with her hospice care nurses behind her back. Because she would never tell us. She didn't want us to worry about what was going on with her. So we had to, what do we look for next? What do we look for next? Get a hold of a nurse. With Debbie's mom, we've been working at this for a year or two, trying to, when the time comes that she just can't manage at home, will she come and stay with us? Because that would be our first choice. And at first, it was absolutely, no, she's never leaving. She's going to die in her house. And then she came and stayed with us for a month when she just couldn't get around. And I sat down. directly spoke to her about it and said, we really would much rather you be here with us, for our benefit, for your benefit, for everybody's benefit. And it's taken a couple times of that, and now she's starting to soften a little. I think there's some hope that she... Although she told me the other day, she said, I love you with all my heart, but I couldn't live with you. But what she's saying is that I can't live with you when I'm healthy. Yeah. When I can't do for myself... Yeah. Times change. Things change. And she said, when I can't see well enough to take care of myself. yeah or cohesiveness you have within the children, you're all dealing with them in the same way. They're not hearing different things from different children. Some parents handle things differently. Some parents play children against children, which is what my parents do. And so my sister and I talk, and then we go talk to them so that we know that we're on the same page. We're both saying the same thing to them. And it's really important. Well, we're well past our time. We should probably end here. Let's do closing prayer. Father, we do just, again, thank you for our parents. And we thank you, Father, that you have called us to stay involved with them, to be caretakers if the need arises, but mostly just, Father, to honor them as we would honor you. And we ask, Father, that you would help us each in that, to plan in advance, to think about these things, as we said earlier, not to shirk from them until they're forced upon us, but to prepare for them, that they might glorify you in the process in every way, in every step. We thank you, Father. We ask it in Jesus' name. Amen.