We have to guard ourselves as churches from becoming communities that are not gospel-centered communities, where we really, even though we say what I just said a little bit ago about the power of Christ's gospel to promise forgiveness, restoration, and renewal, we don't really believe that's true for a certain category of sinners. They're sort of beyond the pale. They're the lepers who live always on the outside looking in. Welcome to MidAmerica Reformed Seminary's Roundtable Podcast, a broadcast where the faculty of MidAmerica discuss Reformed theology, cultural issues and all things seminary. You're listening to episode 112 and I'm Jared Luchibor. Thank you for tuning in. In today's episode, Dr. Cornelis Venema wraps up our series on homosexuality by providing what is most needed in these trying times for the church and this issue, pastoral guidance. In our first three sessions on the whole question of the challenge the church faces in confronting and addressing debates today about human sexuality and particularly the propriety, acceptability of homosexual, not only orientation, but also practice, I've been emphasizing in my first presentation what is really at stake in all of this, and I think a great deal is at stake. I believe it is something of a crisis for the church in terms of the church's identity. In the first session, I suggested that if we abandon What the Word of God teaches, and teaches clearly and sufficiently on this question, the church ceases to be church. The calling of the church is to go into all the world and to make disciples of all nations, teaching them all things our Lord says, whatsoever I have commanded you to do them. And if the church is to be a witness and her calling is to minister and proclaim the truth of the gospel, the promises of the gospel and the truth of the word, she cannot capitulate or accommodate or assimilate if the word of God is indeed clear and compelling on the question before us. Otherwise, the church becomes an echo. It simply adjusts, changes, moves with the times, evolves in her understanding, And it's the calling of the church to hold fast to the Word of God as it's been entrusted to her, and the well-being of the church, and the clarity of her witness, and really even the gospel itself at the end of the day is at stake. And that's why I spend in my second and third sessions a great deal of time, not enough time by any means, but the time allotted to look at what are the key passages and what is the testimony of Scripture on the question. And in our last session we dealt with some of the revisionist ways in which modern interpreters of Scripture are trying to avoid the impact and clarity of the teaching of the Word of God on the topic. What I'd like to do in this last session is address more directly, you know, what is the word that the church needs to speak into this present circumstance, and how is the church to practice the gospel word that she speaks? What sorts of pastoral advice or guidance should we take to heart as churches and as believers in order to present a not simply word of condemnation or in opposition to an agenda that seems contrary to the teaching of Scripture, but to truly in a believing and in a loving fashion hold forth the beauty of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, who by His saving work redeems us, releases us from the power of sin, justifies us. Our righteousness is His righteousness, makes us acceptable to God, and by His Spirit is not perfecting us in this life in holiness, but transforming us so that there's hope for all sinners. that their sins can be washed away and cleansed by the blood of Christ, that they can be acceptable to God in spite of their remaining sin, and they have the hope that the transforming power of Christ's Spirit can reorient their life and bring them, not perfectly, maybe it's only as the catechism puts it, a small beginning of that obedience that is pleasing to God, but it's a beginning nonetheless, and it holds the promise in the future that the good work that God has begun in us, He'll bring it to completion. And so I'm going to start with just a comment or two about the Word of the Gospel. The Word of the Gospel assumes that we're all sinners. In Adam we're fallen in terms of original sin, And by virtue of our actual sins, all of us are by nature, as Paul says to the church in Ephesus, we're properly objects of God's wrath. And that's an important starting point for gospel preaching because if you have a Savior, the question is always, well, from what does he save us? And do we need a Savior? And what does that salvation consist of? The word we have to speak, particularly in this area, is that either homosexual orientation, which in my judgment is in consequence of original sin and the brokenness of our humanity under the conditions of sin, We have a diversity of disordered affections and desires, sexual and otherwise, and the church needs to be free to, in its proclamation of the gospel, identify sin and identify it concretely. Now, heterosexual lust for a woman, if I'm married, is, as our Lord teaches in the Sermon on the Mount, a serious sin and an offense against the commandment regarding adultery. Heterosexual persons who are Christian believers can sin in terms of their sexual desires and in terms of their sexual conduct. I don't mean by this to in any way diminish the seriousness of a disordered sexual orientation that is homosexual, an orientation attraction to persons of the same sex. But it's not in the category of an unpardonable sin. It's not in a category that puts you outside of the reach of God's mercy and grace in Jesus Christ. So that when the church ministers the gospel, she has to be very careful to present the gospel in a way that clearly sounds the note that we are all of us worthy of condemnation that brings death. None of us is a respectable person who deserves to be received into God's favor. And because I'm living a respectable life, my sexual orientation is heterosexual, and I'm relatively faithful in my married life, that's not the basis upon which I find favor and acceptance with God. That is in itself a gift of God's grace given me in my life. But left to myself, I'm, as Paul says to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1.15, I count myself the worst of sinners. I count myself completely unworthy of God's grace. So all of this is to say the church in her proclamation of the gospel must concretely identify what we mean by sin and what are the consequences of continuing willfully to live a lifestyle or conduct a life that is out of accord with God's will. And we need to do that with respect to all sinners. And in this particular case, persons who have same-sex attraction struggles, or not struggles, they're perfectly at rest and at peace with, they embrace and improve. The church needs to speak the gospel clearly in what it teaches us about sin and the consequences of sin. It's remarkable that in one of those key passages that Paul writes, 1 Corinthians 6 at verse 9, he says, do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? And then he goes on to say, such were some of you. We're all outside of Christ in the category of sinners. But now having said that, what then does the church also have to say? The church needs to clearly preach and teach that those who come to Christ in faith, believing the promises that are ours in Christ, and repenting, turning from their sins, he will receive. They will in Christ be, as Paul in that same passage says, you were washed. You were sanctified. You were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And I just want to parse that out a little bit, what Paul is saying there. He's saying, whereas all of us left to ourselves are, if I may use the language, not polite language, but miserable sinners, unworthy of God's favor, properly liable to condemnation that brings death. But all such sinners of whatever sort whatever their particular sin, great or small, are able in coming to Christ, embracing the promises made to us in Christ on the basis of His saving work, to know what it is to be washed clean, to be sanctified. not sanctified in the sense of perfected in this life, but brought by the Spirit more and more to tune my life to the teaching of the Word of God and to live as best I can, God helping me, in a way that accords with His Word. and justified. Luther, of course, made the comment that even those who are justified are simultaneously righteous in Christ and yet sinners still. Simul justus et peccator. So in coming to Christ, you don't have to be perfect. You don't have to fulfill some requirement in order to come in. You come trusting. with all of your sin, and you cast yourself upon Christ, and you are in Christ justified, declared righteous and acceptable to God, and you embrace Him also for sanctification, because as Paul says in Corinthians, Christ is given to us for our justification and our sanctification. Now you might ask, well, what does that have to do with ministry to people with homosexual or same-sex attraction or who are engaged in homosexual or same-sex practices from which they're not repenting? Well, it says to them that there is a way of escape. They can find in Christ deliverance, freedom from both the guilt and the power of sin. One of the big debates that goes on these days on this particular topic is persons who do come to Christ in faith, who do seek by His Spirit to live a life pleasing to Him, Many of them are saying, but I still have what you're calling a disordered affection for people of the opposite sex, and I can't find the freedom to escape that orientation, nor am I able to enter into, let's say, a marriage relationship with a member of the opposite sex and fulfill the biblical norm for marriage and sexual intimacy only practiced within marriage. I would like the freedom to claim the promise of forgiveness and acceptance, justification, but to identify myself in terms of who I am in Christ as a gay Christian, as a same-sex attraction by way of orientation Christian. That's been much discussed in connection with something called the Revoice Movement and in other contexts as well. The argument is I can't escape nor is there freedom from this identity that is mine, this not chosen but it seems to be part of my makeup that I'm disordered in my sexual attractions. That's a difficult question, but the main point I would like to make at this juncture is that the word we should speak to those who are called through the gospel of Christ to faith and repentance is you don't identify yourself by either a disordered orientation sexually, homosexual or by a more properly ordered or normative orientation sexually. We don't go around advocating that people when they self-identify, so to speak, dangerous language, as Christians that, well, I'm a heterosexual Christian. No, you're a man or a woman whose identity is found in Christ, and you define that identity by the blessings of being washed, sanctified, justified in Christ. So that's a point of departure. The call of the gospel is a call to faith in Christ and faith union with Christ. And that forms the, if I may use the expression, your constitutive identity. That's who you truly are. Now you may continue to have struggles, but that's the word that should be used. All Christians, whether heterosexual or so-called homosexual in their orientation, are called to a life of celibacy outside of the relationship of marriage between a man and a woman. And the call to live a life where you struggle against, not always succeeding, but by God's grace and help being picked up and moving forward, growing in grace and in knowledge, you experience the transformative power of Christ's Spirit, not only in the grace of free acceptance, but also in the grace of sanctification. It's very important to recognize that the gospel word and promise in Christ doesn't call persons who struggle with same-sex orientation to a different calling than it calls, let's say, a single Christian with heterosexual orientation to live a celibate life. And it's no more impossible And I know this is one of the points in contention, generally argued nowadays, that you can't defeat, overcome, resist the orientation sexually toward persons of the same sex. And it's a kind of false promise to hold out not only the grace of forgiveness, but the grace of renewal and redirection and transformation by the Spirit in Christ. But that's to strip away from the gospel its power. That's to say that there's a certain class of sin or sinfulness that the gospel word does not address directly and offer not only a call to faith, believing that God's word is true and the promises of forgiveness in Christ are true, and that the renewal of my life in sanctity and in holiness is not true. It's a word of hope. It's interesting that John R. W. Stott organizes his comments on the Christian answer to the question of homosexuality and homosexual practice under the three headings of faith, hope, and love. The calling of the church that I'm suggesting then is to call all persons whatever their state, whatever their sinful temptations and desires, whatever their former manner of life may be, to believe and hold for true what God declares to us in His Word, and to embrace the promises in Christ from the heart, assured not only of God's grace that He holds out to the worst of sinners, that there's forgiveness through the blood of Christ, but also the confidence and hope that we are being renewed and that work of renewal, however small, whatever baby steps or even greater strides may be taken in this life, will be brought to its completion. One of the things that I'm afraid of in terms of the advocacy of accepting and allowing for persons to remain content with their homosexual orientation and even allow it expression in a so-called homosexual marriage relationship between one person and another person of the same sex where there's true commitment, lifelong fidelity, the one to the other, is that it denies what I've talked about earlier about creation, fall, and redemption. Redemption brings us to new creation, and what I'm hearing from some advocates of some sort of permissibility for homosexual orientation and practice is that it's impossible that God could, by His Spirit, not only reorient us in some measure, give us the strength to live a celibate life if need be, and that that work of God's grace, transformative, has as its telos, or its ultimate outcome in the consummation, the fullness of perfect holiness, where we will be just the way we are supposed to be according to God's purpose and will. It doesn't seem to me to be a very gracious word to speak to homosexuals, that there's no hope in this life for a new beginning, nor is there any prospect in the lives to come of the fullness of life, the flourishing of human life, in the new heavens and the new earth, where interestingly the marriage relationship finds its fulfillment in the relationship between the heavenly bridegroom, Jesus Christ, and his blood-bought bride, the church, comprised of men and women from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation. Now, I haven't said a great deal about pastoral advice at this point, but that does bring me to the third of those three, faith, hope, and love. I've talked a bit about faith, hope, What about love? Love toward someone who is struggling with same-sex attraction, has fallen into same-sex forms of sexual immorality, or finds him or herself still struggling with that, though having believed and come to Christ in the way of faith, recognizing sin for what it is, seeking to turn from it, seeking to live by God's grace in a way that accords with his holy will. This is the arena within which I think the church needs to think long and hard about what love looks like. By that I mean even the terminology of homophobia is a kind of a double-edged sword. It's usually used for persons who are not willing to accept the claim that a homosexual orientation practiced and expressed within a monogamous relationship is unacceptable. Such persons are said to be homophobic. I don't believe that's a proper definition. Phobia is an irrational fear. There's nothing irrational or unduly fearful about telling the truth. and speaking the truth to a person who struggles in this respect. But there is a kind of homophobia that I would acknowledge existing in the church, by which I mean a failure to love as we have been loved in Christ, to where possible minister the gospel in relationships with people who have difficulty in this area in terms of their orientation sexually, or even in terms of their expression of that orientation and practice. We have to guard ourselves as churches from becoming communities that are not gospel-centered communities, where we really, even though we say what I just said a little bit ago about the power of Christ's gospel to promise forgiveness, restoration, and renewal, we don't really believe that's true for a certain category of sinners. They're sort of beyond the pale. They're the lepers who live always on the outside looking in. And if we project in our attitudes, our language, and our speech in relationship with homosexual so-called neighbors or outsiders. Church community can very easily be not entirely falsely represented, not as a haven of rest or a place where you will be received lovingly, ministered to, dealt with in an honest, frank, open fashion. I do think there are some forms of pastoral advice that are given in this area that are unwise. For example, we have to go around declaring ourselves as to what is our orientation. I rather doubt that as a practical matter in most Christian churches, a person who comes into the church as a believer who struggles with same-sex attraction is advised to wear that on their shirt sleeve, declaring to any and all. Why should they do that? Any more than I should declare to any and all? Oh, did you know I happen not to struggle with same-sex attraction? I'm a heterosexual through and through. Well, that may well be, but that's not a way forward in terms of ministering to people who struggle in this area. They need real friends, fellow believers with whom they can be a confidant and expect to receive not the horror of repugnance and recoil and, this is unacceptable and I can't have anything to do with you. There's a real big difference in the way the Church and her members should deal with persons who are unrepentant and unbelieving in their attitude toward conduct respecting this question. and those who are genuine believers who still have and struggle with same-sex attraction, who are open to encouragements, to live a life of celibacy, who can find companionship. After all, the marriage relationship and sexual intimacy within marriage is one of the most beautiful expressions of one of the characteristic features of our being created in God's image. that we seek out communion and fellowship not only with God but with others who bear his image. Human companionship is absolutely vital to our life together as God's people. And so I know this is a very general observation and exhortation, But we need to cultivate a much greater degree, not only of clarity and preciseness in the way we minister the gospel and teach and preach how the gospel speaks to this question, but the church communion, the communion of the saints has to be encouraged. in the face of the kind of challenge the church faces in this area. So our answer or our word, the word we speak about this question, cannot simply be a word that is heard as a negative. This is wrong, it's sinful, it's against the norm of God's Word, and those who are in that kind of circumstance or in any way giving way to that sort of practice, they need to not only remain on the outside, but you're not welcome here. There's no place at the table for you. There's no word of hope that we can extend to you. There's no one who's going to come alongside you and help disciple you. So the church needs to define ways without compromise without blurring the message that she speaks to this question, to minister in direct one-to-one and within the fellowship circles of those who belong to the church in a local community. We need to be talking about these things. We need to be taking counsel to gather how best to minister to someone in a circumstance where they have real same-sex attractions. They may have fallen into patterns of behavior that are quite unacceptable, but like are dealing with any kind of form of sin and disobedience to God's Word that is impenitent and is obstinate, and made to us look unacceptable, how do we reach such persons with the gospel? That's the challenge. How do we speak with clarity? How do we act in a way that exhibits genuine faith, an appropriate hope in the transformative power of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and a loving, looking out for the interests of others? Now interestingly, one of the ironies of the accusation against the church for being unloving arises at just this point. How is it loving to say to a person whom you know is walking in a way that is openly defiant to God's Word, that puts them in peril of being outside of the kingdom of God, living in a pattern of sinful conduct, unrepented, How is it loving not to speak directly with a clear call to faith and repentance and a turning away from sin? done, of course, in a manner that seeks the well-being of the one to whom we speak. It's your heart's desire and prayer to God, even as it was Paul's for his kinsmen according to the flesh, that such persons come to know the Savior and be saved and call upon his name in faith. That's what we have to encourage and model and exhibit in our life together as churches. so that we put no obstacle in the way of the gospel word that we speak by our conduct, when and where, and to the extent that it is less than gospel-like in the way we address such persons. I acknowledge there are many more things that could be said on this topic. I also acknowledge that we haven't been at our best, but when are we ever at our best? We always need the reminder that we're at one and the same time righteous in Christ and yet not fully sanctified. But this is certainly an area where we are challenged to become more clear in our testimony and is well more fruitful if God be willing to grant us fruit in our ministry to people who find themselves in these kinds of circumstances. We appreciate Dr. Venema's insight and careful thought when it comes to this issue, this crisis, really, of the church and how it handles the rising opposition of homosexuality and the affirmation of it, not only outside the church, but even in the church. If anything, we're to be continually rooted in God's Word and the authority it has, as Dr. Venema has continually reminded us. Well, as we head into the Christmas season, some of us are no doubt looking forward to singing carols and Christmas hymns. Joining us for the rest of what remains this year of 2021 is Dr. Alan Strange, who will take us through a breakdown of a couple of Christmas hymns. I hope you'll join us then. For more episodes, you can find us on our website at midamerica.edu slash podcasts and wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Be sure to search for and subscribe to Mid-America Reform Seminaries Roundtable. I'm Jared Luchabor. Till next time.