As far as a bit of review from last time as we began chapter 6, the writer declares, Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation. Now, given chapter 5 and how it ended on such a negative tone, saying that the Hebrew church can't seem to even handle the elementary things of the faith, it's surprising that the writer then suddenly calls on them to act mature. After all, you expect him to say, you know what? You guys really can't handle it. I'm gonna have to still treat you like children. No, instead, he doesn't do that, but he rather calls on them to grow up and start acting like mature adults. But as we discussed last time, if you're a parent, this makes perfect sense, right? Because, for example, if your child isn't keeping the room clean, you just don't throw up your hands in the air and say, well, obviously, you're still too immature to handle this, so I guess I'll keep picking up after you in your room. No, that's not what we do as parents, right? No, you tell them that they will clean the room, and consequences will come for their noncompliance. And that's because if you love them, you will compel them to start acting the way that they should, start acting their age. Now, as for these Hebrew Christians, this means moving past what the writer calls the elementary doctrine of Christ. Now, when the writer says that they should move past this elementary doctrine of Christ, he's not saying that they should disregard it and think about more important things. No, the elementary doctrine of Christ is always vital. No, instead they are to leave behind the elementary doctrine of Christ as it has more to do with acting the way they should and knowing what they should know. And that's because, as the writer says, that we are not laying again a foundation. In other words, the elementary doctrine of Christ, the foundations of our faith, should already be established. And if there's not, it's a problem. Now, as we discussed last time, we used building terminology. And what happens, for example, if you improperly pour a foundation? Well, let's say, for example, in pouring a foundation, you forgot to put in the rebar. Again, that reinforces that, right? Well, if you leave it as it is and you build the house and it dries, what will happen eventually? The foundation will crack, right? There's nothing there to hold it together. It compromises the whole house. So, in this case, what will you have to do? If you see that you have compromised your foundation, you'll have to start over and pour again. Now imagine, this builder, who is supremely incompetent, he keeps having to pour the foundation over and over again. He's not learning his lesson. And you begin to wonder if this builder will ever complete the house, right? But likewise, these Hebrew Christians were struggling to lay their foundation. They were not understanding what they should in order to establish their faith. But lastly, as we looked at, the writer goes on to call them to go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation. Now, this go-on term is very interesting. As we looked at, the Greek word used here is pheromatha. Now, what makes this interesting is because this Greek spelling here can either indicate what is referred to as the middle voice or the passive voice form. Now, we have a choice to make in whether which voice we use, because if we use the middle voice, where this means that the subject acts on their own behalf. So therefore, the writer says that using ESV's version, they render it with the middle voice. Therefore, let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity. So what is he saying? This means that these Christians are called to take initiative and pursue maturity themselves. However, if one chooses to render the word using the passive voice, again it's the same spelling, then this means that a person must be acted upon in order for the action to take place. And actually the NIV chooses this rendering using the passive voice. As it says, therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity. In other words, God's the one who causes us to grow into maturity, isn't it? So the question is, Is it us who takes initiative and does it or is it God? Which one is it? Right? It's both. It's exactly right. Well, it is the case that God must be the one who initiates the process because we wouldn't do it on our own, right? What does he do? He empowers us by his spirit to pursue these things, to grow. So therefore, how do we do that? It takes place through obedience, right? We are called to participate in the means of grace. We are to study God's word. We are to hear from God's servant from the pulpit. We are to grow through prayer and through worship and the exercise of the sacraments. Now, as we looked at, then we looked at the elementary things specifically. Now, what are they? He actually lists six things. Therefore, He says, he says, oh, I forgot, that's the rendering of using both. But he said, it's repentance from dead works and a faith toward God, and an instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. Now, notice there are two things to note when considering the writer's list. While there are six things listed, he places them in these pairs. Now before we explain these pairs, the second thing of note is while these things are listed as certainly essential beliefs of the Christian faith, if you notice, there is absolutely no mention of Christ in His work. In fact, the only mention of faith is towards God and not Christ Himself. As we know, the heartbeat of the Gospel is believing in the saving work of Jesus Christ. Why is the writer not mentioning Christ in his work if it's so elementary to the gospel? Well, again, I think it's important to note his audience. Who is he talking to here? Hebrews, right? Hebrew Christians specifically. Now what we often make a mistake of today is that we can create a complete division between Judaism and Christianity. But the fact is the very foundation of the Christian faith is based on what was revealed to the Jews, right? As Jesus said, He did not come to abolish the law given to the Old Testament peoples, but to fulfill it. So God doesn't certainly have a new law for us. He's always had His law. So if this is true then, then Christianity is not an abolishment of Judaism, or the Jewish faith specifically, but a realization of it. Therefore, by necessity, many essential tenets of the Jewish faith remain true for the Christian. Now, with that in mind, let's look at the first pair again. The first pair of essential tenets listed is repentance from dead works and a faith toward God. Now, as we discussed last time, it's important to see that the writer's list here are the natural steps taken in the Christian life. And what is step number one? after one has heard the gospel, to repent and believe, right, and act in faith. But what's interesting about this first step is it's not described in positive terms, but in a negative one. Now, while repentance in most contexts is seen as a positive step, and by the way, that is true, The act itself of repentance is negative because it is a literal turning away from your old life and to the things that do not save. And that's what the Refined Writer refers to here as dead works. Now, some have tried to argue that these dead works are referring to mere outward adherence to the tenets of the Old Testament law. But given the context, it is more likely that it is referring to any sinful activity or, as the NLV describes, repentance from acts that lead to death. After all, the Old Testament laws did not lead to death in and of themselves, did they? That was God's law. But then on the positive side of things, The negative act of repentance now must turn into a positive action when one begins to, as he says, demonstrate faith toward God. But this call to repent and demonstrate faith wasn't new for the Old Testament people, for they too were called to repent and demonstrate faith toward God. Because what did Abraham do? Now, on the negative side, he abandoned his old life, a negative step, right? That is, he expressed repentance. But then on the positive side, as Paul says in Romans 4, against all hope, Abraham, in hope, believed and so became the father of many nations. But then the writer's next pyramid on the list, as we looked at, was about instruction, about washings, the laying on of hands. Now, first, as we discussed, there is a big disagreement regarding what the writer is referring to when he describes washings. Now, the obvious explanation for us is that he's referring to baptism here. However, if you notice, it's plural, washings, right? He's using the plural form here. However, while he is describing washings, we really don't have to think too hard about this one because the whole practice of Old Testament ritual washings and the Old Testament carry the same idea as the New Testament form of baptism, that is, the cleansing of the sinner by the hands of God. While the ritual washings eventually became mere empty tradition in the 1st century as Jesus declared to the Pharisees in Mark 7, God had long used the means of water and the symbol of water to mark off his people as holy. Ezekiel, for example, tells how he will restore his people. He says, I will sprinkle clean water on you. and you shall be clean from all your uncleanliness and from all your idols, I will cleanse you. So what was God saying here? That he would send his Holy Spirit and change their dead hearts of stone and give them new hearts of flesh. That water is a cleansing effect that he does upon you. It's an act that he does, not that we do ourselves. Contrary to modern belief, Now the fulfillment of this prophecy didn't come until when? Christ sent His Spirit, and then this was expressed by the outward sign of baptism, because that sign was a signal or a seal that there was a change that happened in the heart. But as the writer says, after you were baptized and gave a visual response of acting of faith to God in baptism, it was then the practice to lay on of hands. Now, as we discussed last time, while the act of baptism demonstrates the inner reality of the gift of the Holy Spirit that was given to someone, then hands were laid on someone to confirm And this confirmation was shown by an act of power by the Holy Spirit. Now we discussed last time that in Acts 19, this is a great example of this, because in Acts 19 after the Thesians professed belief and were baptized, it says, as he was laying on his hands on them, the Spirit came on them and they began to speak in tongues and prophesy. So the laying on hands began to be paired almost immediately with baptism as a sign that that person has received the Spirit. It was a confirmation. But then lastly, last pairing he lists was the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. Now the belief in last things like the resurrection of the dead wasn't a novelty to Christianity. Now as we know from the New Testament, Pharisees in particular were distinguished from the Sadducees and they believed in what? The resurrection, right? But two, the resurrection wasn't the only belief that regarded the last things that the Old Testament people believed in, but also so was eternal judgment. Now, one of the most famous passages of this clearly described is in the very last chapter of Isaiah 66, where he describes the final destiny of all men. On the one hand, there is a paradise for his people, but for the ungodly lies Gehenna, the place of eternal judgment. As he says, he describes it, for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be in abhorrence to all flesh. But as the writer ends his list, he says, And this we will do if God permits, right? Now, what is this this he's referring to? Well, it's what was referred to back in verse one, that we will go on to maturity, right? Now, if this statement, if God permits it is not just some fatalistic pious statement, but as we already noted, it's the ability to go on to something that God must enable us to do, right? However, As we've already said, at the same time, we are responsible for pursuing what God has enabled us to do, right? So as we continue this week, even though the writer has just declared that God will keep his people, he suddenly gives this very ominous warning. I'm going to read it in its entirety, and we're going to break it up over the next couple of weeks. For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm, and holding him up to contempt. Undoubtedly this is one of the most difficult passages in all of Scripture. What is the writer saying here? Can true believers really fall eternally away from God? The answer to that is no. How do we know that? Because in other places in Scripture, this is the overarching testimony, is it not? Right? We know that those whom Christ died are never in peril because their salvation is not dependent on their own ability anyway, right? In the things that they do. Notice Christ tells us we are firmly in His hands and no one can grasp us away from it, right? So we do have that confidence. So if we believe that scripture doesn't contradict scripture, what does this mean? We're misunderstanding what the writer is saying, right? Well, first of all, the writer, one of his major things as we've discussed, is that of apostasy. That is a final falling away from the faith. But we seem to have an issue here. is the writer inferring that an apostate was once a true and genuine believer. Because if this is so, this calls into question what we just talked about, this notion of eternal salvation. Now, to ease your mind, this is not what he's saying. But, in order to understand what he's saying, it's probably helpful to take this description of an apostate part by part, okay? So this is an exercise that we're gonna do over the next couple of weeks, and I don't wanna rush things, because it's very important, each thing he has to say, and it kinda gives us the final clue of what's going on. First of all, it's important that we understand what the writer is telling us, that it's impossible for a certain type of individual to be restored. That is what he's saying. But what does he mean? Who is this individual? Who is this apostate? Well, first of all, we must note the word impossible itself, which is adunaton. Now, this word has been said, actually by some translators, that it doesn't actually mean possibility and impossibility in this context, but rather it's referring to difficulty. In other words, while they may fall away, it may be difficult for them to come back, in other words. However, there's a problem with translating it as difficult as opposed to impossible. Because first of all, this word is never used to mean difficult, but always means inability or impossibility. For example, The writer of Hebrews uses this same word in various other contexts. And so in every single one of these contexts it actually means impossible. For example, this writer uses this very word just a few verses later in verse 18 of chapter 6 where he describes that it's impossible for God to lie. Now it doesn't make sense that it would be merely difficult for God to lie, would it? No, because one, God is the God of truth. He, by nature, cannot lie. It is impossible for Him to lie. For if God were to lie, then He would no longer be God, because God is perfect, right? So you can see that, obviously, this is not what He's talking about. Whatever He's talking about, it's impossible for this to occur. So at the outset, the writer of Hebrews is stating the impossibility of an apostate being restored. But then he goes on to describe the apostate. Now, before we begin, it should be noted that the first five attributes of the six attributes listed as an apostate are actually attributes that a genuine believer needs to have. A genuine believer should have all these markers. And so keep that in mind as we consider these things. So you can already see why this rod description causes a lot of confusion. And that's why we'll go through this list. We'll need to explain how it is these particular attributes can in one sense be true for the believer, but also be true of an apostate as well. So with that in mind, let's look at the first attribute of the apostate he gives. He says, as those who have once been enlightened. Now, the question is, is what does the writer mean by enlightened? Now, we often use the term enlightenment as almost being synonymous with being given the gift of regeneration, right? However, the Bible doesn't always use it in this sense. For example, the word used for light by the writer of Hebrews is derived from the same word that John uses in chapter 1 verse 9 to describe light. He says the true light which gives light to everyone who is coming into the world. Now, in John's context, does the light of Christ, which is what he's talking about, right? Does that result in everybody's salvation? No, it doesn't. No, in this case, the light has more to do with God revealing Himself to the world. Now, what that means is different depending on if He saved somebody or not, right? For those who have seen the light, who have been given the gift of sight, they embrace Christ. But those who have not, what happens? They hate the light. They are like cockroaches. They hide from the light because it exposes who they are, right? So really, this is the case. This is enlightenment. This is being illumined in the mind. So in our context, to be enlightened could simply mean simple reference to being given the knowledge of who Christ is. So for our purposes this person at the very least is someone who has been given the knowledge of the gospel. Now just because you know the gospel doesn't mean that you have the gift of regeneration. No, it doesn't, does it? No, plenty of people hear the gospel all the time, and plenty of people reject it as well, right? See? Yeah, the demons, like Jane says. That's right. They just know that Christ is the anointed one. That's right. But yet. But yet they, yeah, exactly. That's right. So that's why in that case, many people, they're no better than the demons. They know the content of the gospel, but it has not affected them. They have not been given the gift of faith. And again, that's his very point in the previous passage, right? That is the mark of a believer, those who have been expressed faith toward God, right? And again, this is what he's trying to exercise here, trying to show and contrast here. But also, the term enlightenment has been used since the early church, as code for having been baptized. So, this could also mean that not only does this person know the Gospel, but perhaps they have also expressed faith in that they were baptized and therefore have associated themselves outwardly with the community of faith. Now, is this what the writer of Hebrews is referring to? There's a lot of disagreement among scholars whether or not this is the case. So there's no way to know definitively whether this is the case or not. But the fact remains that the term enlightenment has long been synonymous with having been baptized. And so perhaps this is a possibility that they, again, not only have they know what the gospel is, but they have in some sense expressed that outwardly. But then the next thing listed describing the apostate is one who he says, who has tasted the heavenly gift. Now, what exactly is this heavenly gift that the writer describes? Now, the biblical imagery of tasting has to do with experiencing something. For example, we all know this song, famous song given by David, where he proclaims, taste and see, the Lord is good, right? So what is he saying here? Is he saying you need to try the Lord out? No. That's not what he's saying. It's not a little nibble. It's not a little superficial experiencing the goodness of God. But rather, he's calling you to fully experience the word of God. Again, Christ, when he takes death, it wasn't just a mere dabbling. He didn't dip his toe in death and the wrath of God. No, he fully experienced it, right? Grandma? Would that fall in where if they said, Lord, Lord, have we not done mighty works in your name? And he said, depart from me. You workers of iniquity, I never knew you. Right, well, it's actually gonna deal with another point. It's good that you mentioned that because later on, it's gonna have to do with another aspect of the apostate. But yes, the call here specifically, though, is to taste, to experience that heavenly gift. And again, that's experiencing communion with God, right? Specifically. So, the person that has greatly benefited from the blessings of God is one who has tasted that the Lord is good, right? Has tasted of the heavenly gift. But one may ask, how can someone who's never truly saved experience the blessings of being in God's family? Well, you see, while someone may not be saved by being a part of God's covenant community, there are benefits of being at least outwardly associated with God's covenant family, are there not? Right, Steve? Yeah, this is the very same discussion you're pointing out, like the visible church and the invisible church. Yes, in fact, we're about to get to that. We're about to get to that, because this is where this is going. This is where this is going. Because what are these benefits that we have here? For example, Everyone who goes to church, at least in a normal church, what do they experience when they interact with people here? Oftentimes they say they feel love, they feel appreciated, they're taken care of in many instances, they feel the sense of community. So there are benefits, not just spiritual benefits, but temporal benefits as well. of being a part of a community of faith. And that's why a lot of people are attracted to the idea of church. Even atheists have tried to create their own church. They do a horrible job at it, because they're both all self-centered jerks. I'm just being truthful. They're all self-centered, so you can't really, if you're not called to be the servant of all, right? There is always that allure that the church community provides, right? The safety and security that it provides for those who are looking for a sense of belonging. So by just being associated then with God's covenant community, the apostate can enjoy the benefits bestowed to the whole. And then to Steve's point, this is where Augustine's distinction between the visible and the invisible church is very helpful. Because as Jesus described in the parable of the wheat and the tares, the field represents the visible church in which God allows both true believers, the wheat, and unbelievers, the tares, to grow side by side. But the idea here is that the believers are visibly indistinguishable from unbelievers, just as tares are visually indistinguishable from wheat when together. You can't tell the difference, can you? They're not mature yet. When they're in this green stage, they can't be torn apart. So what does Jesus call them to do? To wait till harvest time. where they reap, and then they sort them out, right? Then it's easier to distinguish the wheat from the tares, but is it the wheat who distinguishes the tares? No. No, who is it? God. It's God, right, the harvester, right? Yeah, and the obvious fact also is, is that there are tares within the wheat. That's right. Among the wheat. That's right. And it grows, again, the whole field is the church. and so we are all mixed in together. I love another analogy that was used actually by my professor, is that the church is like a river, and in the river you have things that obviously belong in the river, like fish, right? But then occasionally you'll have something that falls into the river that doesn't belong, like a branch, right? It's still in there nonetheless, right? But yet, just because it's in there, it doesn't mean it belongs there, right? That really is a good representation of this very idea. That in this time being, there are going to be those in the church who are professors, but not actual believers. And it won't be sorted out to the end. So it's not up to you or me to determine that. Because I can tell you what, there are some people who I know will be in heaven that none of us expect. We'll be shocked to death probably, and then we'd probably be shocked by people who are not there, who we thought were good people, who were righteous people in our own eyes, but yet they were not given the gift of faith. That's a determining factor. It's not in a person's ability, It's in the heart and the gift the Holy Spirit gives to you. Right, David? The reason why I come is because I want to do my own ministry. It does. And even, you know, it's so much so that even going back to the whole idea of how someone who's not truly a believer can be ministered to still. That's God's common grace. That's God's common grace being exercised to that person. They're being given a measure of benevolence they certainly do not deserve. And yet they're ministered. Now, I would argue that the apostate is not, cannot receive the full measure that blessing that a believer does but yet still at the same time they're just like in the field they're probably benefiting from all the treatment of the watering or whatever it goes on until the time of harvest right and it's not until the time of reaping that things change right David? Well, it's just thinking from the passage, it seems like it speaks to the continuity of the covering of Christ. Because, you know, if Christ puts his covering on you, no matter how you buck, you're not taking it off. And then for the passage, if that were possible, it's not. The passage says that. Then in order to be recovered, then your new old self that has to be recovered, a new work of Christ has to be done. just right right right exactly on the flip side you can't it's impossible to return to a place you've never been right right and again this is uh we'll get there eventually where we'll get there next week as we're going to discuss but yet for the time being the whole idea here is that for us there is no way for us to distinguish there's no way for us to distinguish Another example from the Old Testament, again, we haven't got there yet, but in Hebrews, later on, he refers to what he says is basically the Faith Hall of Fame, where he lists all the heroes of the faith, Abraham and such forth. But one of the most curious ones to me, and I've mentioned this, maybe y'all have heard this before, but it's Samson. Why? Because Samson is someone who lived a hedonist lifestyle. in a train wreck. And then at the end, even at the end, it seems like he's asking God to restore his strength one more time, not that God will receive glory, but he received vengeance, right? So had that passage in Hebrews not been given at the Faith Hall of Fame where he says that Samson acted in faith, Well, faith is a gift from God. It's not given to the unelect, the unregenerate, not even the apostate. That means that he was saved. Now, there was nothing in his life, again, that would lend you to believe that he was saved at all. But again, ergo the mystery of the Spirit. He, as Jesus says, the Spirit is like the wind. He goes where he wishes, right? Samson's whole arc, I don't know, I guess, reconcile with faith without works being dead. Right, yeah, and again, I would go to the parable that Jesus says that the fruit by every Christian at the end will vary some 30, some 60, some 100 fold. The whole point of that is that some of us are going to, at the end of the day, bear more fruit than others at the end of our lives. But again, as Jesus said, who grants the increase? It's God. He's the one who enables it. And it's not for us to question why that is. But he is the one who does that. Check it. I think one of the things too we can remember is what God tells us there in the Old Testament is his ways are not our ways. That's exactly right. As far as the heavens are above the earth. Absolutely. I think that Look at that case. It's one of those things that's a mystery. It is a mystery to us. But yet, at the same time, it's not so mysterious on the other end. Because who gets all the glory in that situation? It's God. God saves. God's salvation is of Him and of Him alone. And Samson Life really proves it. It's proven in our lives too. But in cases like him, it really proves it. That it's not by him who wills, nor him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. Right? Yeah, and there's also, as we know, a distinction where the Spirit of the Lord can be upon somebody, like evil kings in Israel's past, but yet they were still anointed with the Holy Spirit for a purpose, but they weren't necessarily saved. That's right. And so we know Samson was called and set apart, and his life projects God's hand on him, but we don't know either in his own life when he may have had that faith that did justify him. That's right. As that gift you're talking about. That's right. Like the thief on the cross didn't have much time to exhibit fruit. That's exactly right. It's fully justified. That's exactly right. That's why it's a fetal task to try to peg someone who is and who isn't. Obviously, we can have our inclinations, we can have our thoughts and instincts about something, but at the end of the day, it's God who grants that. If it's a gift from God, it's not of your works, then that brings full light to it. There's nothing in scripture that says that he has to grant it at a certain time, right? bedside confessions, you know, questionable? Yeah, I think so, but yet at the same time, I know God does work in the deathbed too. You know, He does. He works on the deathbed, and so it's up to Him to determine who is and who's not, who's so. One quick comment. I think it was Whitfield that said on this topic that proclaiming the gospel, if he could see like a yellow bark on everybody's back, that they are the elect, he would know who to go proclaim the gospel to. But we don't have that luxury. Right. That's why we are proclaiming to every creature. Yes. And God does, God makes the spirit move. That's right. And yet the confidence that we have is that we know while God is the one who grants mercy, he's the one who gives the gift of faith, he uses means. And as Paul said in Romans chapter 10, faith comes through hearing the word of God. So that is our responsibility. So because we don't know who isn't and who is, we proclaim it to every creature, right? That is our calling. So as we close this evening, as the writer continues with his list, he says apostates, even those who have, as he said, shared the Holy Spirit. Now the writer has already used this word shared before, hasn't he? Do you remember back in chapter 3 when he says that we are those who share in Christ, right? Now if you recall in that context the writer is referring to the fact that because Christ first partook or shared of flesh, human flesh, in turn we get to partake in Him. And because we are now associated with Christ, we can no longer be associated with the world. Therefore, we are now set apart as His covenant community. We are marked But then the Holy Spirit sent by Christ makes this reality actual, doesn't he? What is Paul saying in Ephesians chapter one, verse 13? When you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. You see, while Christ made the way for us to enter into his holy covenant family, this wasn't made realized and actual until he sent the Holy Spirit. by which we are sealed. In other words, we are marked off by God as belonging to Him. Right, Steve? Amen, I think it's that same passage, maybe, where it talks about the Spirit being a deposit, like an earnest money. Yes, yeah. Where basically, this is the Spirit I'm giving you, and this is expressing my full intention. That's right. And it's a promise, I will come back and claim you. That's right. That's exactly right. That's that whole mark and seal that he's talking about. But notice the sealing takes place at the time of one's hearing and believing the message, right? Again, what is a seal? As Steve said, it's a mark signifying a greater reality, right? An inner reality. New life has been given. In other words, it's an outward declaration. Again, it's a note. Write a promissory note given to us, an outward declaration that you are inwardly belong to the covenant community of God. But the question is how can this refer to an apostate? Well, the inner reality of regeneration may not have taken place. The fact of the matter is that by definition an apostate has at one time at least expressed outwardly an expression of repentance and faith, right? It is a mark placed upon him. Now, that being born out fully and completely is a wholly different thing, right? So next week, as we will continue the writer's list, but we're gonna see finally, again, there's two more points that he's gonna mention, but again, all these points up to this point are things that should be true of believers, right? but he's gonna give a caveat at the very end about those who have abandoned the faith. And so, and we'll finish next time in seeing how that directly relates to apostasy. Right, Lonnie? Otherwise, if they were of us, he says, then they would have remained with us, right? Yeah, and that's how a covenant family, a covenant community operates, is we raise our children, for example, presuming, we raise them in the covenant. We expect them to fulfill God's laws and commands and obey Him and follow Him and be baptized and do these things. they have to, under that umbrella of the covenant being raised or being in a community of covenant, you have to, at some point, apostatize and express if you are not of God. If you're not in the elect and you don't have faith, then you have to then take an act to apostatize. But otherwise, as little babies and little children, you're presumed to be in the covenant, and then you confirm your faith at the right time when you can. Right, and you know, to the arguments that a lot of our Baptist brethren make against covenant baptism, for example, they'll say, well, what if, you know, having baptized your infant, that later on they apostatize, right, and they leave the faith? And I said, well, that's true, but what about someone who comes to faith as an adult? Aren't there still examples of them apostatizing too? So that really is not a relevant argument, right? What is baptism? It is your entrance into God's family, whether it be as an infant or whether it be as an adult, like we witnessed David, right? It's the same thing. It's God placing his mark or his seal upon you, that you belong to him. Now ultimately, whether you are a wheat or a tare, is up to him. And up to him completely. Just like circumcision. That's right, circumcision. As we're gonna see next week, looking at Old Testament apostasy, just because you were circumcised, it didn't mean that you were saved, just because you were a part of Israel, that whole idea of not all of Israel is Israel. When you think of Paul's statement as applying just to the New Testament, that wasn't just applying to the New Testament. That was applying as a forever argument, as a forever reality. Not all of Israel is Israel, even in the Old Testament. Those who are set apart, that is who are Israel. Right?