Hey, how are you? Good. I'm Tony. Ben, good to meet you, man. Good to meet you. Yeah? So you're from the area? So we're both members of a church called Grace Fellowship Church. You know where the Walmart is off of West Kimberley? West end of town, yeah, just about a half mile. And our church sends us out to share the good news of the gospel with people, hand out Bibles and have conversations. And I'm sorry, I'm old and cold. What's your name again? Ben. Ben, Ben. Good biblical name, actually. Benjamin. So do you have any particular spiritual beliefs, Ben? Uh, yeah, I actually go to, uh, I don't know if you know where the church is. I've heard of it. Is it on this side of the river? No. Oh, it's on the other side. Okay. What, what, uh, I don't use the word kind abrasively at all, but what kind of church is it? Yeah. Um, they're non-denominational right now, but they definitely, they used to be Baptist and they definitely hold to a lot of that stuff still. So did you grow up in this area? Yeah. So have you been at that church for a while? A good while, yeah. I first got saved at, my parents sent me to Eastman Christian School. Okay. And they have like a program where they send people out to, it's like a Bible camp type of thing. Okay. Somewhere out in Wisconsin, I think. How long ago was that? That was like, I think that was freshman year. How old are you now? 23. 23, okay. Yeah, it's moved a little bit. So tell me your story. How'd you come to faith in Christ? I'd love to hear that. So it was, yeah, it was at that camp. They, like, do a thing. It's like, it's all out in nature, so it's all, like, very much in touch with God's creation and whatnot. And, like, it's like a program where they, like, they'll have a service every day that you're there, and they'll do, like, singing and praise and whatnot. At the end, they'll do like a big push to get people to like... Like an ultra call? Yeah, that's it. And that was when I like came to know Christ. So what's life been like for you since you were 13 and made that decision? It's been good for sure. It's definitely been like... It was so slow at first, like I didn't really actually start like getting truly like... At least I didn't feel like the growth and whatnot. I felt like I was around like 18-ish. And then I started like... What was different when you turned 18? Did something happen or... I don't know. Why do you mark 18 as like the time when things started to change for you? I don't know. It was just like... I don't know if it was just maturity coming on or if it was just like more self-awareness or something like that. So since we've known each other now, Ben, for like 10 minutes, 10 minutes, if you were to die today, I don't want that, OK? But if you were to die today and you stood before God and God said, hey, Ben, why should I allow you into heaven? What would you say? Maybe because of Christ's sacrifice. OK. Yeah. And that's like, it's something I've been like, talking about, well not talking about, but like thinking about, because like, at our church we've been going through like, we've been going through the Book of Romans. Oh great, great book. They're all great, but that's like the constitution, you know, for the Christian, Book of Romans, yeah. Yeah, we've been going through that though, and like, we're just thinking about like the theology behind like his sacrifice and comparing it like, the way it like, Right, yeah, in fact, I've heard it said that To understand the book of Leviticus, which is part of the first five books of the Bible right the law To understand the book of Leviticus you have to understand Hebrews And I think it's eight or nine times in the book of Hebrews in the New Testament where it literally says Jesus is better And it shows over and over again how these sacrifices all pointed to Christ and Jesus is better. So how do you go about sharing your faith? That's something I've been like actually like kind of wrestling with recently. It's like because my church is very much like pushing the missions abroad type of thing. I send people out to places that aren't here and do stuff. But I've definitely been more like convicted towards local missions. I just don't really know where to go about that because my church obviously they're not really located very well for local stuff which is Or are they kind of outside of town? Do you live outside of town? Right here? Okay, like in downtown. Okay, alright. So, I think I can help with that. Maybe. At least give you some ideas, anyways. I mean, I've been doing this full-time on the streets now for 20 years. This is year 20. But first, you know, a lot of people, when they stop to talk, They assume I'm a Christian because I got a cross and everything. I'm giving away Bibles. I am but But it's not too often where I mean lots of people come by say hey, what do you what are you all about? What are you doing? You know why out here? You know kind of like what you did great question But not too many people say well, I see your cross, but what do you actually believe? So here's what I believe so if you were out here with the cross and And I came up, hey, what are you doing out here? I've never seen you before, or I've seen you before, and today's the day to stop. And you were to ask me, hey Tony, if you were to die today and stand before God, and God asks you why should he allow you into his kingdom, what would you say? Here's how I would answer, okay? I'd begin by saying, well, he shouldn't. I've broken this law every day of my life. Even if I can't remember breaking it every day. I know I have if not in my thoughts with my mouth with my actions I've sinned against him every day. I've fallen short of his glory and if I died and stood before him and all I had to show for myself was a Life of sin then as a good and holy and righteous God, he should send me to hell for all eternity The last place he should send me is heaven but I know He's going to allow me into heaven, and without some context, that could sound pretty arrogant, right? But Ben, it's not because of who I am, it's in spite of who I am. It's not because of what I've done, it's in spite of what I've done. What I deserve from God is His wrath against my sin, but my confidence is in the fact that God the Father sent His Son to earth in the person of Jesus Christ, truly God, truly man, without sin. He lived a life of perfection for some 33 years that I can't live for 33 seconds. And yet even though He knew no sin, He voluntarily submitted Himself to the torturous, bloody death of that Roman cross. He died a death He did not deserve to take upon Himself the punishment I rightly deserve for my sins against Him. He died, he was buried, and then three days later, he forever defeated sin and death when he rose from the grave. Forty days after that, he ascended into heaven in bodily form, where he now sits at the right hand of power. And someday, a day no one knows, he's going to return, not as a baby in a manger, but as the lion of the tribe of Judah to judge both the living and the dead. And what God commands of me is that by faith, and by faith alone, I turn from my sin and I turn toward Christ. I look to Christ. I put my hope in Christ. Not in the man in the mirror, but in the man who died on the cross. And God, I know you're going to let me into heaven. because you're good and because your perfect and precious and priceless son died the death I deserve for my sin and he took my place. I know you're gonna let me in because you're not gonna see my sin. Instead, you're gonna see the righteousness of your son. Not my righteousness, but the righteousness credited to my account because of his sacrifice. So I know you're gonna let me in. So that's how I would answer. So does that resonate with you? Is that the gospel you believe? Yeah? Great. So what do you got in your hand here is a gospel tract. I call them, I didn't make this up. I learned it from someone else. I call these paper missionaries. They can go where I can't go, right? They might be able to have a conversation. I either don't have the time to have or the circumstances don't allow for it. A good gospel tract with a gospel in it God can use that to bring someone to repentance and faith in Christ. It's not the method that saves, it's the message that does. Romans, right, you're going through Romans, Romans 116, for I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to all who believe, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. The power of that piece of paper isn't the piece of paper, it's the gospel in it. The power in a conversation isn't one man's ability to be articulate, it's the gospel that he's sharing. You know, standing on a street corner. This method, there's no power in this. The power is in the gospel that's going to be proclaimed if someone stops to talk, right? So, but this, this is a really simple way. I've written all kinds of tracts. In fact, Matt, my friend here, he wrote this one. But I wrote a track that simply says thank you on the front, and then it has a short gospel message on the back. One day I was thinking, how many times do I say thank you during the day? I go to the grocery store, or I thank the lady who bags my groceries. I go to get an oil change. I thank them for changing my oil as I'm paying the bill. go to the post office and I thank the lady for the stamps I'm buying, right? So many times a day I say thank you, well, wow, I can put the gospel in someone's hand while I'm saying two words, thank you. And then off, and what I've learned over the years, again, something that I was taught, that instead of going to the grocery store to buy groceries, I go to the grocery store to communicate the gospel and while I'm there I buy my groceries. I don't go to the post office anymore to mail a letter. I go there to communicate the gospel, and while I'm there, I'll mail my letter. See what I mean? So it's a shift in the mindset. But this is probably one of the easiest ways. It takes no more effort, in a sense, than saying, God bless you, have a good day. Or when you walked up, here, I'd like you to have one of these. I mean, it's really that easy. As far as the verbal communication of it Look we can't be saved by a gospel. We don't know Okay, so Ben if you're born again, if you know Jesus Christ is your Lord and your Savior That's only true because you know the gospel and you've believed it So you're already fully equipped to be a witness for Jesus Christ. You already know the message, right? you already know the gospel and But sometimes I think we can overthink it. We can make it harder than it is. We think we have to cross every T, dot every I. I mean, we gotta get the gospel right, because there's only one gospel that saves. But, you know, a lot of people are nervous. Well, what if I'm asked a question I don't know the answer to? Or, you know, what if I push someone away from Jesus? Well, one, we don't know everything, right? And while unbelievers play from a pretty tiny playbook as far as their objections, Yeah, you might get asked a question you don't know the answer to. What I've learned over the years is that when that happens, I own it. Hey, I don't know the answer to that. It doesn't change my faith in Christ and it doesn't serve as an excuse for you not to believe. But look, if you want to give me your email, your phone number, I'm going to go study that this week and we'll get back together and I'll try to get an answer for you. Now, if the person really wants the answer or Or if they're just trying to justify their unbelief at your expense, it's going to become obvious how they answer that question. Well, no, no, I don't want to talk to you about it again. Oh, okay. But either way, what I'll do is I'll commit the following week or time during the following week to study that because I might be asked that again. And the Bible says, be ready to give. to give evidence, testimony of the hope that's in you with gentleness and respect. I have to be ready to give an answer, right? And so I'll study that. And so the next time I'm asked, if I'm ever asked that question again, I'll have an answer. The idea of pushing people away from Jesus, completely unbiblical. because people are already running as fast as they can away from him. The Bible says in Romans, Romans 3, there's no one who's good. No, not one. No one seeks after God. All have turned aside, right? Romans chapter 3. And so me bringing the truth to someone as imperfectly as I might do it, isn't going to push anyone away from Christ, because they're already running away. No one comes to the Lord unless he's drawing them. And if the Lord's drawing them, they're going to come. And God being a God of means, He's going to use your proclamation of the gospel as a means of bringing that person He's drawing to Himself. So most of the reasons people come up with for not sharing the gospel have almost everything to do with self-preservation and nothing to do with the lost. I've realized a lot of what I struggle with when it comes to missions and being, I guess, more open about who I am and Christ and stuff is just fear. It's just fear of man and fear of stuff like that. It's a slow process of coming to let go of those fears and stuff. When I first started actively engaging in evangelism, like in a public way, You know, I served as a police officer for 20 years in Southern California. And when I first started, you give me a darkened alley with armed gang bangers any day over walking up to that teenager and saying, would you like one of these? I mean, yeah, fear of man, fear of failure, all of those things, they're at play. But the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And God ultimately is the one that we're supposed to fear, not man. The Bible says, what can man do to me? Jesus said, don't fear man who can only kill the body. Fear God who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Fear him. And so we have to repent of those fears when it comes to evangelism. We simply have to repent of those and go do that which God has commanded us to do. We shouldn't worry about being effective. You know, many Christians, many churches will push this idea of, well, is it effective? Well, is that gospel tract effective? Is standing here with a cross effective? Biblically speaking, if we are trying to communicate the gospel and we are faithful, obedient, and loving in the task, it's 100% always effective. because it doesn't matter what the response is, right? Broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many will find it, Jesus said in Matthew 7. Narrow is the way that leads to life, and few, therefore, will find it. Look, heaven's gonna be filled with an innumerable number of people. The number will be higher than we could ever think of, right? At the same time, many more are going to perish. And that's not up to us. We don't save anybody. We don't condemn anybody. So what I've learned over the years is when I come out to do evangelism, if I'm obedient to Christ, if I'm obedient to Christ in doing that, if I'm obeying his commands, Jesus said, if you love me, you will keep his commands. Hi there. Hello. Hi. My mom wanted to know what kind of Bibles you guys got. It's the English standard version. It's a really good, reliable translation. Oh, wow. And they're free. How many would you like? Five. One, two, three, five. Five? Yes. Well, I have four of the full Bibles left. I'll give you all four of those. And then I have a large print New Testament as well. OK. I'll give you a couple of those, too. Thank you. OK. Wait right there. Excuse me just a second. There you go. God bless you. Yes. Have a wonderful day. Thank you so much for stopping. Take care. Be careful. So, I mean, praise God for that kind of providence, right? We're talking about evangelism and the word of God went out to a half a dozen people just now just by being obedient, faithful and loving. That's it. So I don't have to worry. I don't have to worry about how many notches I get in my belt because I don't have any. I don't have to worry about being rejected because they're not rejecting me. They're rejecting Christ. I don't have to worry ever about failing in evangelism so long as I'm proclaiming the true gospel and I'm doing that with a desire to obey Christ and I'm doing that with a desire to be faithful to the Lord. And I'm doing that with a desire to love both the Lord and the people I'm hoping to share the gospel with. It's effective 100% of the time if those are, if that's the standard, if that's the standard. And so, Ben, anything you do to communicate the true gospel, if you do it with love, obedience, and faith, is 100% effective no matter what the response is. So go. So go do it. Go do it. Go, you know the the Great Commission begins with Go therefore into all the world, right? Well, it literally means as you are going as you are going it's it's a way of life Matthew and I have both been to Kenya, you know, our church our church does a lot of work in Kenya and I've been there a few times and I've been to I don't know eight or nine different countries around the world. But I don't have to leave Harrison and Locust to be a missionary for Jesus Christ, right? Are you working? Yeah, you could be a missionary there, right? If you have unbelievers in your family or your extended family, you could be a missionary there. You could be a missionary at Walmart when you go to the grocery store. You could be a missionary when you go get your car fixed. You can fulfill the Great Commission wherever you're at and in whatever you're doing. I think sometimes the church misses the mark where they think we have to go far away. We have to go far away to do missionary work. It's okay to go far away. We should try to reach all the world with the gospel, but it's okay to It's okay to be in downtown Davenport. It's okay to knock on your neighbor's door with a plate of cookies and say, hey, we haven't met. I live in 2E or whatever, and I'm a Christian. Love to give you this. Hope you enjoy the cookies. And you've just been a missionary to your neighbor. So be encouraged. Do you have any God did your church do your church use gospel tracks? Do they have gospel tracks? Sure, yeah, and that's okay, but I invite people all the time But inviting people to church Hoping that day the pastor is going to communicate the full gospel in this message It's not evangelism It's it's different. It's good. It's good to invite people to church We should want people to come see Christians worship the Lord hear the preaching of God's Word be among people who love each other and are fellowshipping with one another and It's good to invite people to church. But that in and of itself is an evangelism. And it's certainly not personal evangelism because you're hoping someone else is going to do the work. Right? So, hand someone a gospel tract while you're inviting them to church. Keep inviting them to church. Make sure to put the gospel in their hand because most people are likely not to come right Yeah, and unfortunately and this may not be your church at all But unfortunately a lot of churches have this field of dreams mentality if we build it they will come right and then and they don't and whatever you keep whatever you lure people with you're gonna have to keep doing to keep them and It's like, I forget, I think it was my pastor that said that, but it's like, a lot of like, stuff that you use to drop people into church is what you're saving them into, and that's not necessarily like... That's a good word. Good, I'm glad your pastor gets it. Praise God. Praise God. Yeah, that's absolutely true. If you bring them in with comfy chairs and smoke machines and messages that'll never offend you, Well, the only way they're going to stay is if you keep feeding them that, right? If you offer people cotton candy and they really like it and you offer a mistake, well, now I'm going to go where I can go get cotton candy because that's what I really like. So yes, Ben, keep inviting people to your church. Keep doing it. But communicate the gospel to them yourself. And so see if your church has those. I have New Testaments left. Just gave all the rest of them to that car that pulled up. And old and cold, I just lost my train of thought. Probably wasn't that important. We go, well, you know, I might go a day and not give out any and I might give out 10 in a day or somewhere in between. But we we keep a generous supply of church because I'm I'm on the streets quite a bit and people do stop a lot for Bibles or for prayer or just to talk so so yeah, and so If I can give you my number I You can text me and what I'll do is I'll send you some links for where I get some of my resources because we get the Bible we go to a place called Bibles in bulk and I think the Bibles are you know, just like a couple of dollars and Shipping is always free and then I could point you to a couple of good websites that have solid gospel tracks And then you could go look for yourself and see if there's stuff there you like and if it's something you want to use so So my first name is Tony T-O-N-Y, I as a girl, Y as a guy. And my number is, if I could just look at that, I'll make sure it's old cold, but I remember my number. Yes. Yeah. So text me anytime you want. And hey, good to meet you. Take care, Eddie. Text me anytime you want and I'll send you a bunch of links for good resources that that might help you and you'll have my number and so if you have any questions or if you ever want to come out, you know and Be part of the work or just be a fly on the wall or whatever Anything I could do to encourage you I'd be happy to do that I'll leave that in your court. All right God bless you Ben. Good to meet you, man. I'm really glad you stopped Thank you. Thanks for the encouragement. I really appreciate it You're good at preaching, you're good at talking. It's something I've been trying to get better at. He has to be, it's his job. Yeah, so do you know what the difference is between me and you? About 20 years. Really, right? Because when I came to faith in Christ, I was 24 when I came to faith in Christ. And I've shared with Matt some of the dangerous stories of my bad theology. The only difference between me and you is time, time and effort. That's the only difference. The way I've communicated things to you, all you need is time and effort, right? Study the word of God, sit under good teaching at your church, and go out there and do it. Fail, succeed, and give all glory to Christ that you're doing it, okay? The only difference between you and me is about 20 years, that's it. And you're probably smarter than me, so it won't take you half as long. Really, I mean, that's the only difference, right? I mean, Matt could testify to that, how he communicated the gospel when he first came to faith in Christ, and how he's doing it now, what, six years later, five, six years later? The difference is six years, right? So don't let any of that, so don't listen to the lies you might tell yourself in your head, tell yourself the truth. Tell yourself the truth. If you're in Christ, you know the gospel, you're fully equipped, And so just go do it and you'll get better as you do it. And I'd love to help if I can, if you want. Okay? No pressure. Just an offer. All right? I hope so too. Hope to hear from you. I'll get you those resources. All right. God bless you. Praise the Lord. Huh?