Okay, so we are in section number five of our study of biblical elders and deacons. We are continuing with elders in mind, but more particularly, a congregation's duty toward their elders. So we discussed last week much about The elders' duties, private and public. Anybody recall some of those to help us? What were some of the public duties of an elder? This one's easy. Preaching and prayer. Yes, and ministry of the word. So those two things are really what forms the job description, if you will, of the pastor. And we looked at various nuances through that. But this morning, I want us to take a little time, and I'm gonna be utilizing some of this book, Duties of Christian Fellowship by John Owen. I'd really recommend you getting this. It's a short read. The first section deals with the duties that members have towards their pastors, and the second is duties towards one another in the congregation. He calls it a manual for church members. And it's just been very helpful And so, as you know, in this study I've been using Pastor Al Martin, Nehemiah Cox in his work, and now John Owen. I use also Alexander Strauch, however you say that. There's many in there, but today the primary focus will be coming from John Owen because he puts forth seven rules that are helpful for the congregation to remember as it relates to their duty toward their pastors. And rule number one, which I imagine will take up probably most of our time today just because of the nature of the topic and I imagine there will be much discussion on and I hope there is. He says firstly that believers are to attend regularly and to submit to the preaching of the word and the administering of the ordinances. Those things which are committed to the pastor by virtue of his ministerial office and they are to do this with a willing obedience to the Lord. And I found that very helpful how he laid that out. There's much to be gleaned from and noticed in there, but one thing I want to call your attention first and primarily to is that it's not a willing obedience to their pastors, right, when they do these things. They're obeying Christ. They're obeying their Lord. Because Christ has put these men in those places, and we need to recall back everything that we've heard at this point, right, qualifications, the appointment of Christ, that He is giving His church gifts, and they're also bestowed with authority, and we'll talk about exactly how that authority is given to them. It's not in of themselves, not of their nature, but it really is because of Christ. And so, the few passages I want us to consider, and maybe make a few brief comments. 1 Corinthians 4, go ahead and turn there. We're going to see several of these, because these are what John Owen puts before us to show this point from Scripture. And one thing that I want us to be very careful about, and I know I've said this a lot, but I don't think I can say it too much, is we need to be careful that we don't become just proof texters of God's Word. What do I mean by that? Well, when we look for a certain passage of Scripture that says exactly this or exactly that, and if it doesn't say exactly that, then I'm not going to believe it. If you're reading John Owen's words and then you look to scripture, you're probably not going to find exactly written like that. And so this has given a rise in our day called Biblicism, where I'm only going to believe the actual words that are written here. And so such things, which they don't follow suit, but such things like the Trinity would be hard to prove because the Trinity is not found in scripture. So I just want us to be careful not to engage in that error of interpretation, but we must understand the broad reach and the opening up of these Scriptures, considered holy and together, I think will help us get to this understanding. 1 Corinthians 4.1 reads this way, So how does this passage directly relate to what John Owen put forth as rule number one? What is the connection here? What are you noticing or picking up on? Or even maybe were you having difficulty to make that connection? He's a steward of the mystery. It's not his words. Yes. He's been entrusted with something, right? And kind of what we're talking about here, just so we're careful, is someone who would hold that wrong view of interpretation we just described would say, well, this was for only the apostles because Paul was speaking here, therefore it's not for pastors either. But we must understand the broad dimension of pastors indeed are stewards as well, right? They're servants of God, servants of Christ, and stewards of those mysteries. So this would directly apply to pastors as well. Okay, so they've been given something. What is that something they've been given, Frank? In a generic sense, nothing... Well, they've been given the ability through Christ to preach the Word, to herald that truth. The mysteries of God really is shorthand for the whole counsel of God, the Gospel of Christ, and all things contained therein. How is a steward to be faithful of what he has? Let's talk about stewardship. Or if you use it as, it's all blown as it were from God. It's not his possession. And if you're a steward, the big thing about stewardship is you must govern whatever you have according to how the master would govern. So when we think of stewardship of the earth, it's not, I can do whatever I want, but how did God create this world? How would he manage it? And then I'm supposed to reflect him with that. So when it comes to the church, how does Christ, shepherd and lead his flock, and that's being a good story. He's mimicking him. And I think especially it's relevant that we understand that a faithful steward of God, as it relates to these things especially, is not one who keeps all of the mysteries of God to himself. He is faithful in opening them up and sharing them, and even being faithful in how he speaks of them. Let's go to another one, 2 Corinthians 4, 7. And so, if there's another comment, it's loosely, or it's very tightly connected here in this idea. And so, we're gonna see these verses, and I hope they, together, collectively, give us this idea. 2 Corinthians 4, 7, but we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. So there again, he's pointing to these sayings, the power of them is coming from God. It's not a result of ourselves, it's not our nature, it's not who we are that makes these sayings powerful and makes these sayings of God. It's not of us that these mysteries of God come, but they come from Christ. We've been delivered them to us and we're going to deliver them to the church, okay? Let's go to another one, Galatians 4. Galatians 4, verse 12. He says, Brethren, I urge you to become like me, for I became like you. You have not injured me at all. You know that because of physical infirmity, I preached the gospel to you at the first. And my trial, which was in my flesh, you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. How does this now relate and connect to what John Owen is saying? What's going on here? What is Paul saying here? At the end of verse 13, what's the action he's doing? He's preaching the gospel to the Galatians. And what is the Galatians' response to him preaching the gospel to them? They received it as a messenger from God. Right. They received Him as an angel, messenger of God, even as Christ Jesus. That's fascinating, isn't it? That Paul preaching the word of the Galatians, he says that you're receiving me as as even Christ himself speaking to you. As an angel, as a messenger. OK, any thoughts there on that language, that idea, any somebody, somebody might be getting uncomfortable, too, if we. We're not saying pastors are infallible by no means, but when they faithfully steward the mysteries of God, it is coming from Christ himself. This is why we can authoritatively say In so far as our preaching is faithful and biblical, thus saith the Lord. And many have abused that. That's also why we need to be good Bereans and check what you're saying as well, right? We just can't receive it as infallible word because you are going to make mistakes. So checking it against scripture and what the Lord says through other passages is our duty, I would say. to make sure that you were being faithful. Right. Not an implicit faith, right? Where you just blindly take everything that they tell you, right? Because that's a danger. Think of Roman Catholicism. That's what they require. You blindly receive everything that the Pope says, even when he contradicts himself. But also at the same time, not being hostile and resistant to the things that come from the Word of God. The Berean spirit. What's in hand with the Berean spirit? You remember? I'm putting you on the spot because you brought it up. Well, I mean, first and foremost, you've got to know what Scripture says. I mean, there's no way to check it if you don't know it. Right. Do you remember, does anybody, let's make it help too, what was the Bereans, before they saw if those things were true, what was the first... Oh, they received it gladly. Gladly, right? They received it with all readiness, the text says too. which indicates there is some kind of positive receptivity to it, even though they may not fully understand what's coming forth to them. It might not be something new, but their initial response is joy, and they have a readiness which would indicate that they're ready to faithfully obey it. But then they say, okay, well, let's see if these things indeed are true. Because you gotta imagine, too, in the circumstance that when Paul is preaching, he's taking the gospel to them, They don't have copies of God's Word, so they're searching. What are they searching? The Old Testament Scriptures. They're searching and seeing, and of course, the tradition is being handed down by the apostles. So it's fascinating there to make that connection. Any other thoughts there on that verse, Galatians, or even as it relates to the Bereans? I think it's a hard issue because when you're listening to the Word preached, Are you, is your mindset, okay, I'm gonna look for every error, I'm gonna be skeptical, I'm waiting for him to make a mistake, I'm not gonna believe, or is it, no, I faithfully believe, and it's really, do you believe what God says about preaching the word? Is it, he is speaking powerfully, miraculously, through that man, and he is speaking to his church through the preaching, not new revelation, He's opening up what he's already revealed. And so is that eager expectation there, or is it, what would be the thought of, OK, I'm going to also check this. But it's starting with how you begin, what's your attitude at the beginning. And I think that's where that is. Both are checking, but is one doing it out of skepticism, or is the other out of, OK, for my own soul, I want to make sure that was wonderful, that I want to check it again spiritually. We'll talk more about this at the end, and I hope to do some particular questions on this, but since you brought it up, Frank. It's a hard line with that balance of the scrutiny, the critical spirit, the censoriousness about it. We're not talking about things we agree on. We're talking about those things that may sound different. come across as different, or something new that I haven't heard, particular nuance. But what's that initial spirit, that response? Am I immediately bristling and balking at it, just for balking at it's sake? Or do I have biblical reason and warrant? And so that initial, I think you hit it, how'd you phrase it? The standing overt judgment? Yes, skeptic, that's it. Yeah, yeah, being a skeptic versus readiness, willing to receive, but also being faithful to check and see if these things are true. Is that clear, that distinction? Those two postures? It is to me, but I don't know if it is to you guys. So I think that's a good point that Brother Stephen and Frank bring up. Let's do another one. 2 Thessalonians 3.13. 2 Thessalonians 3.13. There it reads, But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. So now you're even seeing, right, the apostles are putting the authority with the Word. The Word of God. Anyone who does not faithfully obey this, what does it say to do? Disassociate yourself. Note that person, point them out, and do not keep company with him that he may be ashamed. Now, of course, this is a pattern of rebelliousness. Once the Word is clearly opened up and preached and proclaimed, So how does this connect again to what John Owen's original first rule is? If someone is disobeying the Word of God, it's not good. It's sinful. And we need to keep ourselves carefully from those types of people. What do these people look like? Let's say in our midst. People maybe that persist in sin. I mean, we're not talking about here you disagree with, you know, a word that was used in the sermon, right? We're talking about you're disagreeing with the Word of God. Your life is at odds with what's written here, and especially after faithful exhortations, faithful preaching. And so that's counted in mind here because it comes in spoken word. probably public and private, is in mind. This is when it gets really real, I think, for us to understand the seriousness and the gravity of someone who does not hear the Word of Christ, and even hear those who are stewarding the words of Christ to the people. Remember, it's not the authority of the pastor. He's not infallible, but he is standing on the infallible Word of God. And in so much as it's faithfully declared unto the people, They must receive it with readiness and joy and gladness and implementation in their lives. But those who don't, they're to be noted and to disassociated with them. Even notice that he may be ashamed. That doesn't fit well in our modern day culture of feelings, right? Shame should come about this person because of what he is doing. But I think verse 15 gives us some hope. He says, yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. So you're still to treat him as a brother and to warn him and exhort him to turn away from that. And it hasn't gotten to the point where this person's an unbeliever. This is someone who claims to be a Christian. This is not just someone who is living in opposition to Christ, they're an atheist or whatever it may be, but this is someone who is in the church, who is among them, who identifies with them. Other passages, I think, in Corinthians speak of not even eating with such a one who persists in such kinds of sin and what that means. So is there a line between going against the Word of God in general or even in particular or disagreeing? Let's say that you and I have a disagreement about an interpretation of a certain scripture. At what point am I sinning by continuing to disagree with what you I think it's really going to depend on what particular disagreement there is. If it's your eschatology, that's not going to be a difficulty because it's not going to result in producing sin in your life. We disagree on sexual immorality. And we're very serious about that, and immediately. There is no room for compromise, no room for disagreement on what sexual immorality is. So I think it depends on the nature of what it is the disagreement is. Yeah, and I think the pastors, we need to be careful, especially, in those, we'll call them tertiary issues, right, the issues that we could probably have some disagreement on in times, that's a great example, to not come across as thus saith the Lord every time we speak about our preferences or our peculiar convictions. So we need to be certain when we press something like this upon our people and all those who hear that we can be adamantly sure Christ is saying this to you, right, flee from sexual immorality. those clear-cut things. Now there are going to be variations and nuances and I think probably most believers and their pastors don't disagree with the clear commands from Scripture. I think it's the application of some of those commands. That is where the difficulties come about. It's how we're going to apply this in our midst or when there is not a clear prescription from a certain passage and this is the path we're going to take forward. I think that is where the struggle comes sometimes, at least it seems to me. Anybody wanna chime in there on that? Would you say to me that it's not just like the context of what it is, it's the manner in which it's carried out. Like it's okay to disagree, it's the issue. The issue I think sometimes when it's sinful is when it's talked about or it's going, you're trying to be divisive or you know what I'm saying? Like would you say that that is a better aspect? Like it's not sinful to disagree. But it's, if you're talking to somebody over here, I think he's wrong on this, you know, whatever. Like, that can be, and we've seen it be in some churches divisive. Right. It's murmuring at that point. It's talking about things with others instead of first going and talking to the pastors about certain things. And I think we need to be careful about, I'd say both sides. They approach the mannerisms, right? That pastors don't come across as heavy handed as my way or the highway. If they do that, they don't have the mind of Christ, and they're not fit for the office. And that's clear. But on the other end, the Bereans, right, it's that spirit. The Bereans weren't murmuring about maybe some of the things they were wrestling with. They went and looked at their scriptures, and I would say they went and talked if they had a Disagreement or question, clarifying, going to those who were in charge of preaching the word. What did this mean here? I'm not so sure about it. I'm struggling in my conscience with this concept, this idea. Can you help me connect the dots? Versus coming to somebody, I disagree immediately, right? I mean, that's two different postures and spirits behind a lot of people. And so I think again, it goes back to what Stephen was saying. Am I scrutinizing? Am I standing over in judgment? Do I think I have it all figured out and not even willing to consider? Or am I with that posture of, okay, I'm going to consider this and I want to seek clarification. Now, it doesn't mean that you can't talk to others in the church and ask them for clarification as well. But you've got to understand if it's a serious issue that you may disagree with, what is that going to do to others if you're going around talking about it? It could cast a doubt in their minds now. toward their pastors and their teaching. And so I think we just gotta be very careful to maintain that unity and that proper order, especially if it's coming from the mouth of the pastors. They need to be the first ones to be able to address it and clarify if there's any concern at all. Yeah, any other follow-up there on that? It's good. Regarding the, just the receptivity to the preach word of God, and we talked about this when I was doing the Sunday school lessons on liberty of conscience is that obviously we can press upon the conscience with the command of God, but we also can press upon the conscience on the principles that come out of that. So just like you said, chapter and verse stuff. Nowhere in the Bible does it say, don't go to this website and look at this. You won't find that in the Bible. But we can find biblical principle and we are able to press upon the conscience of the believer based on biblical principle. And obviously the more clarity that we have on those things, the more we can press upon it. And the less clarity we have, I opened the door of like a modest apparel for women, there is instruction there, there is principle that we can press upon the conscience. We have to be careful about how we tread. But in all those things, all those lanes of authority that I laid out, The initial posture is a posture of submission. It's a heart of submission to authority and a receptivity to that instruction and to that hearing from the pastor, from the Word of God. Yeah, and I think another good example following up with that is our church covenant. Those things that we agree to, we covenant together, in very specific things, right? And now because you have agreed to that and came into the membership, then the pastors can press that on your conscience. Because nobody twisted your arm and made you join the church, at least I hope not, all right? But voluntarily you've agreed, I'm going to submit under these because I think they're wise, I think they're biblical principles. But often, at least I've found in my experience as a pastor, when not in this church, but in other churches, when there is specific adamant sin, that people do not want to repent of and you can't find, you know, a verse in the Bible that says, do not look at pornography, they're saying, well, I don't have to listen because there's no scriptural reference for that, right? And they're not willing to hear and understand that it's sexual immorality and the connection that's made through that. So, yeah, those are great, great points, Pastor Greg. Anything else there on that? I've got two other verses out of Hebrews 13. You can go ahead and start turning there, but I don't want to leave this, if there's still more discussion or conversation to be had, I think it's helpful to talk through these things and even wrestle with them. And the situation here, even in the adult Bible classes, where we can have these questions like this, right, and wrestle with them. Now, if there's personal wrestlings with personal issues, we shouldn't bring those types of things up, but in the generic sense, we can wrestle with this. And we should, because if it is the word of God, then we want to be faithful with it and be good stewards, even as we look at the relationship between the pastor and the members of the church. And then changing and implementing changes when you find, well our practice doesn't align as biblical as it ought to be. It doesn't mean necessarily we're always in sin, but we have more clarity on certain issues. Okay, we need to consider this in all aspects. Yes, Semper Reformanda. Hebrews 13, read verse 7 and then verse 17. It says, So here are a couple more passages. In verse 7, I think the emphasis is there on remember. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe it's just a, you know, just have them in your mind kind of thing. It's remember what they've said to you. Remember how they've lived their lives, the example that they've set, and follow it. Be imitators of me as I follow Christ. That's another rule John Owen will give. We'll get to that. Considering the outcome of their conduct. But also in verse 17, you have obey and be submissive. And why is that? For they watch out for your souls as those who must give an account. Remember the stewardship principle. They have to give an account to God for how or if they have or have not been faithful with God's people, even in that matter. But let them do so with joy, not with grief, for that would be unprofitable to you. And that's why. That kind of censorious spirit that's present in perhaps many churches of members toward their pastors just makes it grievous. It makes it miserable. It's not a joyful experience. And I've been a part of churches like that and it's miserable. That's the best way to phrase it. It doesn't do anyone any kind of profit or value. And it hurts and damages the church greatly when you see that kind of spirit or that divisiveness or just that resistance to even the word of God as it's opened up. So in our day and age, there's an undercurrent of rebellion against all forms of authority. And we need to realize that this even is infiltrating the church. And so how does this attitude or this spirit, this posture, let's say, manifest itself? Let's look at different types of people. Let's say first, how does this posture of rebelliousness or anti-authority manifest itself in the attitudes of unbelievers toward pastors? How do unbelievers see pastors? What is their attitude, do you think, in a general sense? We're skeptical. or they see corrupt pastors who are using their position for financial gain. I think that's how all pastors are. It's interesting even there that how much attention they focus on the corrupt pastors but they don't see the many faithful pastors. That's part of the human nature, isn't it, and the experience. What about believers? What is, just in a general sense, what is this How has this affected believers as they relate to their pastors? The spirit of anti-authority, how has that affected believers? Maybe how has it affected you? Has it? Does it make you doubt or trust authority at times? Do you wrestle with it? You even think about the spheres we've talked about, right? The authority of the family, the authority of the government, the state. That's a tough one, right? Then the authority of the church. There's a lot of similar responses. within those who have authority over us. Think about how you even relate to the authority that you have over perhaps at your work. Many times it's not a positive relationship or at least positive feelings towards that. So I think we need to be honest that we've been affected even by the spirit of the age in our day in this anti-authority. This I'm gonna rebel against all forms of authority. I'm my autonomous independent person. You know, I heard it. even though the unbeliever, it was mentioned with them, that, who are you to tell me what to do? I mean, this is present with many professing believers, too. Who are you to tell me this? And we talked about last week, who are you to enact church discipline on certain things, right? These are the things. What authority do you have? And if we clearly understand Scripture, we see the authority. Where does it come from? It comes from Christ. It's His authority. So, when unbelievers and believers alike are rejecting the authority of pastors of God's servants, then really they're, if they're faithful, rejecting the authority of Christ. Because He has put them there, and they operate, or should operate, based on His Word. Let's talk more about this authority, because I think we need some help here. And John Owen, back in the 17th century, thought we need some help too, so it's not a new problem. He says, John Owen says that there's a twofold power for preaching of the word. One ability and second authority. So one ability, two authority. There must first be the ability to preach, which we covered, right, in the qualifications. And so this is why he has to be qualified for the task so that he can be faithful with the word of God and faithfully preaching. Okay, this needs to be present in those called to the office of minister. But second, let's focus in on the authority. The authority possessed by those who are formally set apart in the office. Where does it come from? Where does that authority come from? Well, I guess we should ask first. Is there a real authority that pastors have? Let's step back even further. So there is authority. This arises where? From where? Where does that authority come from? Christ. Remember Ephesians 4, right? Christ has given gifts to his church, and these gifts are found, as we're talking specifically right now, of pastors. We heard of the apostles, the prophets, the teachers, and the pastors, shepherds. So Christ's institution of the office, that's where the baseline of the authority comes from. Secondly, where does it go from Christ? Does it go directly to the pastor? and say Christ has called me and so I have the authority because of Christ? The congregation. God's providentially appointing of certain persons within the vineyard in which they labor. Matthew 9.38, Therefore pray to the Lord of the harvest, that he would send out laborers into his harvest. So it's his vineyard, his field, his laborers, and he appoints them in certain places. So he's providentially appointing them there, and then from there the church's call, election, appointment, acceptance, and submission to that. And listen to John Owen here, he says, these things do not give pastors the right to rule over the faith of the believers, nor make them lords over God's heritage, but entrust to them the power of a steward in God's house where they have been made overseers. So they are to exercise that authority that comes from Christ, is recognized and given and delegated from the church to these pastors. This is why we vote. We vote because the authority is given from Christ to His church, and the church says, we want to delegate this authority to the pastors. And so now they're responsible for exercising that authority. But you see how the authority doesn't arise from within them. The argument should never be made, you know, I have authority in and of myself, right? Or just because I say so. And this is where pastors must be very, very careful with dictating preferences, or preaching preferences, or policing preferences in Christian liberty, as Pastor Greg already mentioned. And if we understand this, this line of authority, then I believe that we will be more ready and willing to accept them as the true gifts of God they are. And John Owen says here, and then we'll have a few questions. It says, The failure to consider these principles is the cause of all the negligence, carelessness, laziness, and indiscipline while hearing the Word, which has taken hold of so many these days. Only respect for the truth and the authority of God and the preaching of His Word will bring men to hear it soberly and profitably. It is also the case that men grow tired of hearing the Word only after they have grown tired of putting it into practice. So he's saying here, if you want to be able to hear the Word of God as it really is the Word of God when it's preached, we must understand this line of authority. The gifts that the pastor has, but also the authority that he possesses because of Christ. Is that clear? Is that connection clear? And why it's an obligation? Remember the rule, right? That in order to receive the preaching of the Word, to consider that relationship between pastor and member. Any comments or thoughts there on that point? But what's not clear to me is the definition of that authority, like Frank said, in your lane. Because we've all probably either personally experienced or know of someone who's experienced an abuse of that authority because you're told you just need to obey whatever the pastor says. So I think I'm confused as to what is that authority. Yeah. So in the sense of where does the authority to press certain things come from? Is that? Yeah, like what's the parameters of what authority does a pastor have over the congregation and where is that crossing the line where it's no longer in your lane type of thing I guess is what I'm asking. Maybe I can give an example that I gave once upon a time. Frank, you've got to go to bed at 8 o'clock every night. So that would be one example, I mean it's an extreme example and it's one that's funny, but out of the lane, the operative lane, because the pastors don't possess that authority to dictate. You're meddling in the sphere of the family and the personal self, all of that. So I think this is why it must be adamantly clear when we open up the Word of God, that that is the baseline for pressing the conscience of people in this land and this authority. So it has to be scriptural, not proof texting per se, but there has to be scriptural principles in a way it's like the pornography example. There's not an explicit command that says don't look at pornography, but we can gather from clear use of the Spirit's gift of deduction, right, that this indicates we can't look at pornography. And so I think you've got to follow those lines in all through Scripture. And this is why faithful systematic preaching verse by verse of the Scriptures will help us to understand more clearly what God has required of us. And the pastors have to be careful that they are certain Christ has commanded us to do this. in order to press that upon people. It doesn't mean that they can't be wrong. This is why they're subject to the discipline of the church as well. This is why they must submit to the elders of the church as well in a plurality. All of these safeguards that we have. This is why we're to be Bereans. Because if I tell you something, and you're not sure about it, your conscience is bothered by it, let's say you're responding correctly, but you're still not sure, then you go search and see if these things are true, and then Lo and behold, you find, okay, God's word is now what convinced me that I need to obey that command. Does that answer it? I guess I'm saying, you know, if we did come into a situation like that and we're unsure or we disagree for the moment, that doesn't necessarily then make us rebelling against authority. I guess it depends upon our attitude. Yeah, the posture, the attitude, and the response. You made a two-fold case for church membership in what you just said over the last few minutes. Number one was submitting yourself to authority. When you come into membership at the church, you're putting yourself under the authority of Christ, the authority of the church, the authority of the pastor. So that is a willful submission to authority. So you're doing that, right? And so that's where it starts. And then the other thing that you're doing, if you come into that membership, then you're being part of the appointing of, you said that that is the responsibility of the church. We don't put an ad in the paper and say, if you're a Christian out there, come to Emmanuel on Sunday, we're going to appoint an elder over here. You have committed yourself and submitted yourself to that authority, and then you are exercising your God-given responsibility. to set forth a man, or men, as those shepherds of the flock. And so all of this lends itself to this posture of willful hearing of this man who's been placed, not only, he's not under his own authority, he's not under the authority of the church, of which you have submitted yourself to, right? So all of these things pair together to go to, and then the lane, you know, we talk about these lanes. The lane, first of all, it does go outside of three hours of church on Sunday. The lane goes outside of that for the pastor. We will chase you outside of the church. We will pursue you. We will pursue you because it is the whole counsel of God that we are responsible for. And we shepherd the people according to the whole counsel of God. And so the lane can go outside. No, the lane doesn't go to what time you go to bed. But there are lots of places in Christian living and life. areas of sin that we will pursue you, and that is within our lane and scope. We talked about pressing upon the conscience, and we can do that in conversation, lovingly. And hopefully, we want to press upon people's conscience in those areas of principle. But this whole posture of submission to authority that comes under, okay, first of all, you have to be willing to do that to a church. You have to be willing to participate in the process of setting these men forward. And then that sets you up for a right way of thinking about the lanes, right? But then, of course, yes, we have the responsibility as pastors to do that in a way that is in accordance with an example that would align with the example of Christ and the way that we handle those things. And so anything, I think, to answer, anything that we press from the conscience must be scriptural. We must be able to back that up from scripture. It may not be a chapter and verse per se, but we can, for the whole counsel of God, press it and say, consider what the Word has said here. And this is, I think, to Pastor Gregg's point, this is why you either vote upon a pastor to come in, and you have to know what kind of man he is to vote with a clean conscience, right? Or when you become and join a member, if he's already a pastor here, you understand that he's going to be the one over you. And so there's no really way, if we follow the clear prescribed order for joining a church, there's no way to get into a church without recognizing that I'm submitting myself under that authority, right? And so I think that that is helpful to remember. But this is why pastors must be men of the word and men of prayer. Pastor Luke, is it okay to recognize we're all church There was so much chaos going on. I mean, I know that our free American spirits don't like to be told what to do. It never feels good to be admonished. I mean, let's be honest. It's not like, well, let me be admonished next, please. But our old church, there was so many different beliefs. And the church itself was muddy. And we had people in positions of, about Sunday school teachers that were teaching our children things that were very unbiblical. And you'd go to the pastors, and they're like, well, you know, he's an old guy, and he has a good heart. He's, like, passing out papers that are saying all Jewish people are going to heaven, and Muslims are going to heaven. And nobody did anything. And I think, again, what Michael said last week is you've got to take your positions seriously. And because this church holds discipline, guiding the flock as seriously as it does, then you are on top of those things, because you know you're going to be held accountable. I would never want to be a pastor, especially not the pastor of our last church, because they knew that there was so much unscriptural things going on, and nobody did anything, because nobody wanted to step on toes. And without this structure, we have chaos. Now on the outside, the church looked like everything was running smoothly. People were flocking to it. Now, I think Michael said a couple of weeks ago, I don't know if there's 100 people there. Going from a 600, 700 member church, there's reasons for that. So without rules, without responsibilities to you and you to God, then I think that we're just a mess. That's right. But in just a few minutes, maybe by way of application here, I want to leave you with this. Just kind of, John Owen leaves the last part of motivations for doing this. Motivations from obeying this rule of submitting to the pastors, especially in the preaching of the Word, my duty towards them. He says, the first one is, it's the one in whose name the pastors preach and speak. They're speaking in the name of Christ. So out of, for the sake of Christ, I'm going to submit myself under this. And he quotes 2 Corinthians 5.20. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ as though God were pleading through us. And we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. Second, he says the work which they do, which your pastors do. Understanding the work is difficult. It's not easy. 1 Timothy 4.16, take heed yourself into the doctrine, continue in them for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. Third, it's the account that they have to give to the Lord. Do this for their sake so that they can give a clear account to the Lord. Hebrews 13, we read that. Fourth, the regard that God has for them as they work for Him. Matthew 10, 40, He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me. He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet should receive a prophet's reward, and he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man reward. So even the regard that God has for pastors, think about what He has entrusted them to do. And then fifth and finally is the account, not just of the pastors, but the account that the hearers must give to God for the word which was preached to them. 2 Chronicles 36.15, it says, And the Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, until there was no remedy. It's a serious nature that if the man is speaking in the name of Christ and we reject him, And we have to give an account to God for that. Luke 10, 16, He who hears you, hears me. He who rejects you, rejects me. And he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me. And let's do one more in Hebrews 2. We'll close with this if you want to look there real briefly. Hebrews chapter 2. Well, Hebrews chapter 2 and Hebrews 4. Real fast. It says in Hebrews 2.1, And then over in Hebrews 4.2, For indeed the gospel was preached to us all as well as to them, but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it." Faith must be that which is operative in order for us to hear and receive the word of God. And so I want you to think about these things. Even think this morning as Pastor Andrew is going to preach, in light of these rules, how should I as a believer listen to a sermon from my pastor? How should I engage myself and then be a good Berean and maintain that spirit? Ask God to keep me from that perhaps censorious spirit, that immediate bristling, but that I would not be someone who just believes it because my pastor said it either. It's a difficult balance, isn't it? I feel like we're walking on a thin line because it's like a tightrope. You move to one side or the other, you're going to fall off. But the Word of God will keep us grounded and centered there. And so think about those things. I know we're out of time, and so if you have questions, come to me. We can start them off next week, or we can continue to open this up. That's all for the first rule. We can move on if there's no other questions, but so if you have those, please come to me. But with that in mind, I've left you much to think and pray and contemplate over, and I pray you will. And so right now, let's pray and ask for God's help. Our Father in heaven, thank you again. For this time we've had to open up your word, please help us to consider what your word has been said. Even our brother John Owen, what he's put before us. And may we have that willingness to receive the word with readiness and be good Bereans. And even now, as we approach into the preaching of your word, may we put these principles into practice and be faithful. for what you've entrusted to us, knowing that we must even give an account for what we have heard and how we've responded to the message of the Lord. We ask this in Christ's name, amen.