The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. Today's date is November 18th, 2024, for the podcasters. I hope you all had a great weekend. I went to church yesterday, enjoyed the sermon. It's a nice Reformed church, too. It's good to hear theology rightly expounded in so many ways. I like that. Hey, look, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And if you want to watch the show, you can do that. That's easy. You can just go to Rumble.com. Rumble.com forward slash Matt Slick live. And you can watch it there. Also, if you want to email, emailing is easy. All you have to do is direct your email to info at karm.org, info at karm.org, put the subject line, radio comment, radio question. All right, now it looks like, I'm not exactly sure when the date is. I'm going to check. Maybe it's in the Karm calendar. We had a somebody who putting the Karm calendar together and I've got a debate coming up on Unconditional election on I'm not sure what date because I don't see it in the calendar So it's on a Friday either this week next week or the week after something like one two or three weeks so There you go. That's what That's what's going on. I got to get more information on that. I got to figure it out. You know, I'm always doing stuff. And that reminds me, we're revamping, we're rehauling, overhauling, rehauling, overhauling the Karm website. And let me just tell you, wow, there is so much to do. We are going in and fixing things behind the scenes, links, forwards, loops, just all kinds of stuff. missing this and that, and graphics, we're having to change a bunch of stuff. We're just doing an overhaul to the site. It's gonna probably take a few months. And that's why I haven't written any new articles. I get up in the morning, I just work for three, four, five hours doing this, and then my brain fries. I can hear it go psst, psst, psst. And then I know I'm done. I start talking in circles like, hey, today, yeah. And then my wife says, you need to take a break. So I do that, and we cook pretty well. All right, we got callers coming in. And why don't we just jump on the calls? Let's get to Brad from Iowa. Brad, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how are you doing? Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Yes, I can. What do you got, buddy? Wonderful. Yeah, I just got a question regarding, well, it's two passages that I think kind of go together. I'm just trying to get an answer to this question. First, I guess, to start with are Deuteronomy 19, 16 through 19. This reading here from the LSB, it just says, if a malicious witness rises up against a man to accuse him of wrongdoing, then both the men who have the dispute shall stand before Yahweh, before the priest and the judge who will be in office in those days. And the judges shall inquire thoroughly and behold, if the witness is a false witness, and he has accused his brother falsely, then you shall do to him just as he intended to do to his brother, thus you shall purge the evil from among you." So taking that, Pat, or taking that and going over to Deuteronomy 22, it's a section, I don't know if you want me to, since it's those eight verses, if you want me to read again or if you want to. So what was the first set I'm gonna click get him on my computer. I was a little behind you there. Do you tell me what? Do the first of what I just read was Deuteronomy 19 16 through 19, okay Okay, and then malicious gossip with malicious witness. It is dispute step Okay, and then anyone takes wife goes in and turns her away Okay, go ahead. Yeah So that would cover, do you remember the 22s? 13 through 20, I think it was through 21. So going through it, my question is, do you want me to read it? Because it would probably make more sense just going through it. Or do you want to read it? I can read it. It's 13 through 16. you know it's not certain that we want to get the brutality of the island it will make a paraphrase if you would take so what goes into and it turns against her charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her girls father mother so bring the evidence to get uh... okay for her virginity et cetera those fathers will say the elders you want our this man wife returns against her behold the charge for shameful deeds uh... so the elders of the city shall take the man and chastise him okay behold his charge of her with shameful deeds did not find her daughter a virgin but this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity and they shall spread the garment okay i know what that means uh... before the elders okay and they shall find him a hundred shekels but if the man the charge is true then the girl has not found a virgin then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of the father's house and the man of the city shall stone her to death okay go ahead Yes, so my question is, should the man have been stoned to death in accordance with Deuteronomy 19? And I'm just wondering as to why he wasn't. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but does he, you know, was a malicious witness? It's a degree of sin. It's a degree of sin. So in the Jewish culture, a virgin woman in youth was extremely valuable and extremely holy, extremely important. And so when, more so than what we understand here, she was like a prize, like this is a pure woman, this is a woman, that is pure and through her we can help fulfill the requirements and the admonition of God to multiply and fulfill the earth in the God-called elected people of Israel. So her virginity in line of this is a symbol of purity and holiness. It is a very serious thing because it represents to some degree the calling of God in Israel. So it's a very serious thing. And the issue of, hey, I don't know if she's a virgin or not, is another issue. Because what evidence is there? Now it is bring the garment out usually in the first act. I'll be polite, might be children around. There's usually a discharge of blood, et cetera. And so they can bring that garment out to say, see, here it is. And that's one of the ways of demonstrating the virginity of her. And so if he's wrong about that, then he's not doing the same thing, the same level as her forfeiting, uh, her virgin, uh, virginal purity in the eyes of God, family, and people, uh, versus him, not sure what's going on and then making a, you know, I don't think so. And then he's proven to be wrong. So he used to be, you know, he's, there's a chastisement for him. I think where I was having trouble with was where it says, you know, any terms against her may, and I think, and, um, the definition it showed with that word being like hate, to hate her. And so I, it just made it confused or what it made it confusing with me was, um, what was, you know, if, if it was, if he was going and being, you know, and bearing false witness, knowing the fact that I, if you have some knowledge that, you know, um, that I, if, you know, if this turns out to be, you know all you know not for your know if it turned out to be true she's gonna die but you know what if it's if it's not true that i'm not going to die but i'm going to just get jack you know chastised and maybe i'm just uh... maybe i was misunderstanding this is just things are already and you don't need and then seen the correlation to where he's bearing false witness against her i thought he should receive the same penalty as her uh... well if you have a problem with people You have to be careful because there's an error called ethnocentricity, and that is we judge that culture by our norms. It's just something we automatically do. So that's why I say in that culture at that time, this was how it was looked at, which is different than now. It was it's an when a woman when a young girl would lose her virginity outside of marriage that meant she was fornicating. This brings great shame upon the father and also upon the household and upon that immediate community and the family extended family. great shame. This is bad. It's also a rejection of the covenant of God and his work of the Messiah through the people of Israel. So this is really a serious thing when she's doing that. There's other places where they say when a man lies with a woman and he does this, he's going to be killed. Because it's on his part there. This, however, is not the same level. He's just doubting and he's really having a hard time with her virginity. And are you really a virgin? Because it's a very serious issue. Right. And even when it says in that verse 13, where it says, if any man takes a wife and goes in her and then turns against her, does that make any difference? Or that as far as when, you know, the hostility, I suppose, in that Well, yes, he turns against her. Now, there's a problem, right? There's there's other problems. He's got to take care of her. You may hate her. You may not want to be with her, but he's obligated to take care of her. But he wants to divorce her. But there better be really good grounds for it. And the grounds would be her infidelity before marriage. And we would say, well, wait a minute. That's not infidelity because they weren't married. But that's different. Because in that culture, there was usually a year-long betrothal. And in order to break the betrothal, they had to go through a ceremony like a divorce. They were not married, but it was such a serious thing that they had to plan the wedding feast. They had to do all this stuff. It took a long time. And during that time, she's supposed to be pure. And then if she's not during that time, this is horrible. This is catastrophic. So he goes into her. He goes, wait a minute. How would they know? And he knew whatever. Not a virgin. because there's supposed to be a discharge. Maybe there wasn't, but just, but anyway, so there's issues there. And, um, cause not all women have the, you know, that discharge when they lose their children. So I think, yeah, like I said, my hangup was just seeing what God has prescribed for bearing a false witness. And then seeing this where it's the, I guess, seem seemingly read, like I said, I probably missed, like missed how, you know, what the context and everything and stuff, but just reading it and seeing, well, if he's, if he's throwing a charge against her, And, you know, you know, basically throwing this charge out and it's turns out to be, you know, if it was true, she would die. But if it's not true, he doesn't die. He only gets chastised, fined, and saved his life. That's my, that was my thing. I'm just trying to take, trying to be consistent, but I guess, like I said, I probably just didn't see something, you know, within that. That's all right. Cultural context and the things associated with it are the hidden gems that you go, oh, I get it now. That's right. It was so serious. Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. I think, yeah, the thing that. Oh, sorry. Yeah. That's OK. Go ahead. Go to the next. No, no, it's OK. Yeah. I think my my the biggest or, you know, my I guess my I don't say fear, but just the thing that was just kind of, I guess, not shook me. But this kind of just made me I just couldn't get quite an answer, because just seeing that obviously God was the one speaking, or you know, God was the one speaking in Deuteronomy, or in 19, you know, basically prescribing that, right? And then seeing him, and then making, basically seeing that, making sure God's, you know, God's being consistent in what he's doing, and not wanting, and obviously not wanting to think anything bad, you know, that he's doing, not that it's not inconsistent, but just trying to understand, or understand. Right. you know, why I'm seeing that that way, I guess that that makes sense. Okay. Well, yeah, it's just a culture has a lot to do with it. It just has a lot, you know, like, uh, during the betrothal period, the son would build a room onto the, the house of the father. They would have to go and arrange all kinds of stuff. Uh, the fatted calf, the wine, the family would come in. It was a whole range. This is a big deal. for her to be unfaithful during that time is very serious. So that was why. Okay? All right, buddy, here's a break. All right, man. Okay, God bless. All right, folks, hey, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get on with Alex from Florida. Hey Alex. Hey buddy. Welcome back to the show, man. Alex. I clicked on him. Waiting for you, Alex. You there? Let's give him a little bit of time here. Maybe there's an issue. Can you hear me now? Now I can. There you go. All right, buddy. OK. Sorry, I was muted. That's all right. I was feeling a little under the weather. I was wondering if you had any suggestions of anything I could do to make myself feel better. Yeah. Take vitamin C. and baking soda and not too much like somebody did. And then you take that two hours makes you feel better in water. Yeah. Yeah. I don't trust, I don't trust, I don't trust a guy named slick, let alone the doctor, a guy who thinks he's a doctor named slick. That's right. You shouldn't do that. You should not trust a guy named slick. That's obvious. All right. So what's up, man? Yeah. So I was calling back in, uh, I want to tell a little bit about my experience in Chennai and India going to, the Catholic Church there. So we were talking about Roman Catholicism, how it has a false damning gospel and just the heresy that is involved in that. I'm writing this paper on it. So when I was doing some ministry work in India, I know the Apostle Thomas is allegedly, you know, but he's allegedly buried in Chennai in India, in South East India. So we went to go visit where he got tortured, where he was buried, um, and where he was prison imprisoned. So I get there and I mean, it's cool to be in a place like that and see everything, but the idolatry that the Roman Catholic church had turned it into statues of Mary everywhere, big shrine, the Pope had been there. It's a sacred site for the Catholic church and, It was just so disturbing to see. And one thing for sure that just always is burned in my brain was it was the first time I'd seen penance done where a woman is on her knees groveling towards a statue of, it was either Mary or Jesus. And she's just on her knees trying to get forgiveness by just crawling on her knees towards the statue. And Yeah, it's very sad. We, you know, praise God after she was done. Me and the pastor I was with, we got to share the gospel with her and her son. Her son had brought her there. Um, right. And then another time I saw a woman kissing the statue of Mary, you know, lots of them on their knees to the statue of Mary. And, and the terrible thing is this Thomas would be rolling over in his grave. This was the apostle who went out to India to preach the gospel. and the Catholic church has turned it into something twisted and not even recognizable anymore. Yeah. Yep. That's right. Well, I've been to Jerusalem and seen that firsthand with the, uh, the Catholics who are bowing before, uh, stones where Jesus supposedly was, um, little idols here and there and you go into stores and, uh, When I was at the Vatican we left, went right outside and within 100-200 feet was a store and you go in and there's idols, icons, pictures of Mary, Jesus, a store full of it. You just buy these things because they're going to help you. When I did a cruise for fun, a vacation kind of a cruise, I went to Mexico. I went to a Catholic church. And saw the same thing, a woman crawling on her knees up to a statue of Jesus. And to the right of Jesus was a statue of Mary. And I spoke to her in Spanish and said, this is not going to help you. You just need to believe and trust in Jesus alone. And what are you going to do? They're just lost. Yeah. I had heard about it. But seeing it in person is something else. It's so disturbing, demonic, wicked. Um, and it was just so eyeopening and they, and they're obsessed with these statues and, and all this just icons and things like this. And they're just, um, they're enthralled with it, you know, and they, and they think it makes them more Holy. I think that gives them forgiveness when we know it's only through Christ alone, we have forgiveness. There is no amount of statues we can kiss, no amount of idols we can have in our house. that will bring us closer to God. And the Catholic Church is going to answer, the priests are going to answer, the Pope is going to answer for all the heresy. Oh, that's the other thing I was going to say. Speaking of the Pope, it's one of three holy places. So in India, Chennai where I was at, in Spain, and where you were at, the Vatican. Because the Pope has been there, it's holy. So stupid. It's just so pathetic. I know. you know uh... people who they don't have christ in their heart uh... because of the catholic church deceiving them turning them into idolaters it's just it's sad what it says in exodus twenty verse four you shall god said you shall not make for yourself an idol or any likeness of what is in heaven above and earth beneath in the water in the earth you shall not worship them or serve them And then in Deuteronomy 5, 8-10, it says, you shall not make for yourself an idol or any likeness of what's heaven above and earth beneath or water. You shall not worship or serve them. These are the iniquities on the fourth generation. And the iniquity is there in that they, their hearts are hardened and it's a set. But you know what I find interesting is that the countries that have heavy roman catholic influence uh... unless and less reformed influenced countries integrated with them and influence them those countries generally are that third world but second world but first world mistakes yeah they have some sort of morality and some sort of uh... law-abiding things uh... there where they try to do law and order. And that's what I'm writing in my paper is that the Catholic church has mixed so much error and heresy with the truth that it deceives many. You're right. The Catholic Church is going to be held responsible to God for it. When I was in the Vatican last month, the pomp and the gold and the silver and the the tapestries and statues and all the wealth that the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox, they both have these things and they tell me that they have the apostolic authority because they're the descendants of the apostles. Their authority, and I keep asking them, is this what they collected for themselves? Gold and silver? Is this what they did as the apostles? No, but you guys certainly do. And then there was this St. Peter's Basilica. We were there. They had this one chair where only the Pope is allowed to sit in. Only the Pope can do that. I want to get up there and sit in it, but I don't want to get tarred and feathered either. But yeah. It's pathetic. Yeah, and the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, and it's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man to inherit the kingdom of God. I mean, it's basic right there, and they're obsessed with wealth. In church unity. Hey man, hold on, we've got a break coming up, okay? Hold on. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Alex from Florida. All right, man. You still there? Yeah, still there. Just one really, really one brief thing, because you were talking about the Catholic catechism and all the crazy stuff that's in there. Catholic Catechism 846 reformulated positively. It means that all salvation comes from Christ, the head through the church, which is his body. So unless you're in the Catholic church, uh, you're lost. That's what they teach. It's totally false. Totally false. Yup. Yup. Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, I've talked to Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. They're just so very similar. But I'll ask them, is there salvation outside of being a member of your official church? I've had many of them say, no. So let me get this straight. So my faith in Christ and what he's done on the cross is not enough to make me right with him? They said, no, you have to belong to his church and take his sacraments. You know, they just have a false gospel. They don't even understand the gospel. It's bad. I know. And we just got to, you know, like I was reading last time, and I probably got to keep praying for him, keep doing what you're doing, sharing the gospel, tell him what the truth gospel is through Christ alone. We don't need to be a part of a quote unquote Roman Catholic church or Eastern Orthodox church or whatever you want to fill in the blank. It's just through Christ. That's who gives us the forgiveness of our sins. Amen. Our faith is in Christ. He did everything. He did everything necessary. So what we need to do is trust in what he did. And what they often do is they will say, oh, then you can go out and sin all you want, right? And they fail to understand that along with our belief that God grants to us, he comes in and lives in us. And he justifies us and he regenerates us so that we're made new creatures, 2 Corinthians 5, 17. They don't seem to understand what it means to be regenerated, to be born again, to have God in us. They just assume it's a set of rituals and regulations you've got to keep. And that to them, salvation is an attitude of submission to a church with rules you keep. That's what salvation is to them. But they don't understand regeneration of what it is in our hearts and our minds. They don't get it. Yeah, they don't. Yeah, they don't. And when you talk to them, that's why when you say, well, where are you going to go when you die? Well, I don't know. Well, I hope heaven. They don't even have full, they don't have full assurance because they're trusting in their words. That's right, exactly right. That's what I've been saying for so long about the Roman Catholic Church, and more so also in the East Orthodox, that both of them are false churches. And they are, I say, and I'll say it again, that the Catholic Church, because it's the biggest church in the world, is the greatest gate of damnation of any religion on the planet, even worse than Islam. And I stand by that. So, you know, people just don't know how bad it is, how bad Catholicism is. They think, well, I'm just thinking, I'm just, I hate the Catholic church for whatever reason, you know, is abused as a Catholic or some stupid thing. And no, no, no, it's a, it's a biblical issue. And I tell them it's biblical. And so, uh, yeah, Paul, Paul says, if anyone preaches another gospel, let him be a curse. Good. Where's the say that? Come on, Galatians. Galatians. What? I was getting my friends at heart. Galatians. I just quoted it for my favorite three. Is it three places? One, eight, nine. OK, there you go. Oh, yeah. Yeah. OK. I was like, I just quoted that. Well, you should know where it is. You know, I know it's right. I'm staring at it in the first paragraph right there and I'm like, right there on pressure because thousands of people are listening and I don't want you to feel nervous. You know, it's not a big deal. Okay. I'm human people. I'm human. Well, I'm glad you though have the correct understanding of Catholicism and it's false gospel. It is not Christian. The Roman Catholic church is not a Christian church. Okay. All right. Well, yeah, we can talk about that a little bit. Thanks for chatting and let's just keep praying for them and keep sharing the gospel with them. That's right. That's what we do. We preach and teach the gospel to all people. The gospels of how to guide to salvation from one who would believe. Yep. Praise God. All right, man. All right, I'll see you, buddy. OK, talk to you later. OK, bye. All right, now let's get to, oh boy, Alberto. Alberto, welcome in. You're on the air. Yes, something related to the same thing. My question is about the Roman Catholic Church. I was in this video, YouTube video, about this guy was exposing John MacArthur. He was saying John MacArthur is demonizing the Catholic Church, that the Catholic Church has been around from the first century. Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, hold on. So a Catholic was saying that John MacArthur is demonized? going to be denied in the catholic religion the catholic church but he got he was talking to me i would be with always going to be your car sir that was speaking uh... badly uh... exposing the heresies of yeah it's always isn't yeah i think that yeah exactly so he was saying that they are more proper when he would be maddened at the catholic church and then that most of his church members were ex-catholic uh... income recovery church but i was saying that uh... that a lot of the people don't understand the true history of the Catholic Church. So then a lot of them need to come out of John MacArthur Church and know the true history of the Catholic Church. So, so he basically, he was saying that a lot of Catholics are being deceived by, by the, you know, John MacArthur and that, that, that, that a lot of people, the Catholics are saying they're being deceived, that, that John MacArthur is deceiving people. The Catholics are saying that, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was saying that, a young guy, in the video, that he was saying that the only church that existed was around was the Catholic Church during the first century, and there was no other religious group like Pentecostal or Reform or Baptist and none of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just presuppose the validity of Catholicism in the church definition must mean an earthly organization, and they're the only one around. They don't understand what the Catholic Church, or excuse me, what the Church really is. And I have to teach them on it. I say, let's look at what the Bible says the Church is, because there's many different understandings of it biblically. But they don't study. They don't do that. They don't study. So, yeah. Yeah, I was watching your video. I was watching your video online when you called issues in the Roman Catholic Church. A young girl was talking to you in the video. You're exposing all the false heresy of the Catholic Church about the but that the indulgences and the penance and all the different things I got to do. One thing or another thing you were talking about it, you know, even my uncle, when you talk about a young guy, I was talking about her needs, even my uncle. I remember, I took a picture of him, he was crawling on his knees, I mean a long step, I mean a real high hill, went to a church on top, he had to walk on his knees all the way to the top of the steps to the church, and that's what I guess some kind of practice the Catholic Church do, so I guess I guess some kind of forgiveness or something. Even my own father, I remember he used to pray to the dead, light up the whole table full of candles, pray to the dead and all that, you know. And he used to pray to a statue, Virgin Carmen, you know, as a praise for, he believed that one time he was about to drown and he's cried out to her that he, she's the one that saved him from drowning. And so, you know, I didn't know any better. So, you know, yeah. And so, um, he used to also have this statue for the outside of our entrance of our house. He bought one and it was from some kind of Virgin thing. Then they cut that, they put a bit, they put a Catholic church right on top of a hill in the neighborhood. built that you and with everybody come up to the steps all the way up to the Catholic Church right priest was describing you know that that clock got a different star well you got gotcha so version yeah there's a lot there you have another comment or question want to add in there well my question my question is so why if the Catholic Church what what are the people that know all this why don't they just read about themselves why don't they just read about themselves because like the cults they're taught and brainwashed into submitting to the organization above them like the Jehovah's Witness organization says that the average JW cannot interpret the word of God by itself they have to have the organization's authority they just believe it they just submit themselves the same thing with the catholic church only the magisterium has the right to interpret scripture because it has the authority of God not the individuals So it keeps the individuals under their thumb and is in control of our salvation. In fact, when I was having a discussion Friday or Saturday night, I don't know, with some people, Catholics, I said to one Catholic, I said, is the Catholic Church in charge of your salvation? And he said, yes. It's just that simple. I said, it's not Jesus. It's Jesus through the Catholic Church. So they always want to make sure that Jesus points to their church because their security is not in Christ, it's in their church. So they have to have Jesus helping them out. That's what it is. I heard two cases that a lot of Roman Catholics who truly got saved, born again, are staying in the Catholic Church to make changes in the Catholic Church. You know what I'm saying? So they can make changes in the Catholic Church to help people discover the truth of the true gospel of Christ. So I don't want to make, they won't leave the Catholic Church, they stay in it to help make changes in the Catholic Church so people can wake up to the truth. I've heard of that. I've heard of that, and praise God for the missionaries in the Catholic Church. Good. All right. There's the music, but we've got to go. All right. Thank you, sir. All right, man. God bless. All right. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please give me a call. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get to Charles from Dayton, Ohio. Charles, welcome. You're on the air. Are you there? Charles? Hey, buddy. Are you on the air? Are you there? Listen. Amen. Give him a little bit here. Might be trying to get back to the phone. All right. OK, well, let's put him on hold, and we'll get back. OK, let's see. Let's get to Brandon from South Carolina. Brandon, welcome. You're on the air. How are you? Doing all right, how are you? I'm very well. Okay. I just have a few questions. How do you espouse this while profiting wealth off naive Christians? I'm sorry, what? Say it again? How do you profit wealth off of your radio show on naive Christians? Wealth? So I'm getting wealth from doing radio, is that what you're saying? Yet you're a Christian apologetic whatever network has a whole Wikipedia page. So how much of that money goes to actually serve the people that you Christian network? I don't get any money. I pay to be on the air. i'm paying their hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month what do you think why don't you ask instead of sort of choosing right away because we haven't got any money i'd very politely it's just interesting because i look at it uh... at your wikipedia page i look at the amount of money that you get and then i look at the amount of money that we would we would we would we would we would we could be a page So, do you know that in the Wikipedia page we had lots of battles with the leftists and the atheists who would constantly go in and alter it? Hold on, hold on, can I talk? Hold on, don't be rude. Don't be rude, I'm trying to tell you something. You go to Wikipedia, I'm telling you, you can't trust it. Alright? Now, you said, all the money I make, how much do I make? How much does this karm bring in? Do you know? let wikipedia real quick i can tell you if you ask me i can tell you because you go to wikipedia where we have antagonists who don't like me they go in and they alter the stuff in there and this is your source of information uh... we make our gross income last year was around two hundred eighty thousand dollars okay That's it. And out of that, we have to pay for hundreds of dollars every month for the radio show, hundreds of dollars every month to host a website. We have missionaries in Africa. We have missionaries, we had, and he's gone, in Turkey, we're supporting. Missionaries in, we have Malawi, Nigeria. We had missionaries in Colombia. Missionary in Brazil that we're supporting financially. the money goes out, okay? It's out. We are broke all the time. We are broke all the time. Every single month, we were hoping to make ends meet. Every single month. I say to my wife, because she keeps the books, I say, we'll just pray and trust God. Hopefully we'll have enough money to pay the missionaries. Okay? I mean, that's noble. I'll apologize on that respect, Jerry. Wikipedia has been heavily edited. Oh, absolutely. In fact, three months ago, three months ago, I was saying to my wife, let's just not pay me. Let's pay the missionaries. That I wouldn't take a check so that they could get paid. It didn't happen that way, but that's what I wanted to do, so that they would be able to get paid. See, you've got to ask questions. Don't be telling us how it is. You don't know. Ask, okay? You tell us how it is, don't you? I'm just now telling you. I just told you, look, I just spent three weeks in Europe on a on a tour, a Bible land tour. You know how I was able to go? Because if people sign up under me, I get enough money to get a free trip. That's how I was able to go. So let's talk about what you talked about a week ago, I believe, predestination. So you think that everybody that's going to go to heaven? No, there is not going to heaven. now that's not what i'm saying i'm saying i really did fall into your genre of christianity is going to go to heaven so what about the believers they're not like what's the point in believing that my genre my genre of christianity is that everyone and all people who put their faith and trust in jesus christ god and flesh died on the cross rose from the dead salvation by grace and faith if they put hold on dude dude don't be talking to me while i'm answering the question It doesn't do any good. Everyone who puts their faith in Jesus Christ, faith alone in Christ alone when He's done, they're the ones who go to heaven. Whoever that is. Okay? That doesn't make sense of what you said to a caller about a week ago, where you said, you are chosen. Second Thessalonians 2.13, you have been chosen for salvation from the beginning. God chose you from the beginning for salvation. Okay. And in Ephesians one, four and five, he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. That way we hold him blameless. I'm just quoting scripture. If you have a problem with the scriptures. Oh, I have no problem with the scripture. I have a problem with your interpretation. So I will ask you, okay, let me ask you created some people that are just going to go to hell. He created people with souls that are destined to go to hell. How do you rectify that? How do you logically tell me that there's an all-good, all-serving, omnipotent God that creates people specifically to go to hell? Well, let me ask you. I will. I'll tell you what my opinion is, and then we can talk, okay? See if you agree with my opinion. My opinion is that God has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked, for the day of evil. I believe that. Do you believe that? I do. Do you believe that? Huh? I'm sorry. No, I believe in free will. Okay, so I just quoted you Proverbs 16, 4. The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil. And you denied that. So let me get this straight. You come in and you think you understand what the issues are and you don't even know what the scriptures are teaching. I quoted you the scriptures. Very well equipped with the scriptures. What I'm asking you is, even if you were to base your belief on that, on that piece of scripture, you're telling me that you're all good, all benevolent, omnipresent God creates human beings to go to hell answers that question. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? That's not an all-good God. That actually goes in opposition. Can you show me a verse? Hold on a sec. Can you show me a verse in the Bible where it says God is all good? Can you show me that? It doesn't exist. And here is what you do. Is there a better God? Hold on. What you're doing is you're defining God in a certain way and then saying that some... Would you be quiet and listen? Let me answer you. You're defining God a certain way, all loving, and then you're saying, this is how he's supposed to act. Well, let me read to you scripture again. What if God, verse 21 of Romans 9, does not the potter have a right over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience, vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. And he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy which he prepared beforehand for glory." Do you believe those verses? for you created my inmost being you knit me together in my mother's womb i praise you because i'm fearfully and wonderfully made your works are wonderful i know that full well so you're telling me that a person is destined to go to hell no matter how much they pray for jesus they're going to hell so you're telling me you don't understand no you're god in the new testament sir unless you're going back to the old testament which is a different conversation excuse me i asked you a question you ignored the question i asked you if you believe the verses i read to you out of Romans 9 21 to 23 that God makes from one vessel for honorable use another for dishonorable use and he did this vessels of wrath prepared for destruction do you affirm or do you deny the word of God there? come on of course I affirm You affirm? Then you have to affirm that God has made vessels for destruction, just as Proverbs 16.4 says, He makes all things, even the wicked for the day of evil. So your problem is with scripture, not with me. I'm repeating what God's word says. Most Christians don't like it, because they have a man-centered theology, where God is obligated to be the blonde-haired, blue-eyed, Caucasian surfer dude, dressed in a woman's nightgown, standing at the door of your heart, asking permission for you, in your wisdom, to let him in. And that salvation becomes active when you do something in your wisdom, and the atonement of Christ becomes powerful when you do something in your faith, in your free will choice. You have a man-centered philosophy. No, respectfully, I will say God is begging the Old Testament for people to believe in Him. So it is honestly His duty to be an all-good and all-powerful God. If God is not all-good and all-powerful, then He is not a God. Like, this is philosophy 101. This is so easily destroyed. Your argument is false. So you said free will. Hey, quote me. Quote it to me again. So you had free will. You said talk about free will. Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame, for there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. The Lord is Lord of all and richly blessed. All who call on Him, for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord, will be saved. But no, that's not your ideology. Yes it is! Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10, 9 and 10. That's what I teach. But you espouse predestination. Yes I do, because the Bible teaches it. Romans 1, 5, having been predestined. It tells us. Dude, that, your translations, that's fine, but like, dude, do you understand the problem here? Yeah, that you don't understand scripture and you don't know how to think clearly. That's the problem. Look, he predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself. Ephesians 1.5. Do you believe in predestination? He predestined us to adoption as sons of Jesus Christ to himself. That's Ephesians 1.5. Do you believe in predestination? That's what Ephesians 1.5 says. He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself. I'm just asking. I'm just quoting the verse about predestination. Who is us? Dude, define us. It's not a hard question to answer. Well, we have to look at the context. The us, I'll tell you who the us are. I'll tell you. I'll tell you who the us are from the context. It's the chosen ones. Verse four, just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before him in love, he predestined us. He chose us, that's the chosen ones, they're the predestined ones. Ephesians one, four, and five. Young man, Acts 10, 34 through 35. God is not like man. Are you trying to set scripture against scripture? I'm studying your interpretation of it. In fact that you have a large interpretive. Am I reading it now? I wouldn't say large, but you have people that live in you that are Believing this this which is not true. Do you mean when I quote the scriptures? I quote the scriptures. It's not true when I'm quoting you and answered you with God's Word every time that's not true. I Did I not quote you several scriptures? Mine are less true than yours from the same Bible? You can't set scripture against scripture. Hey, look, guy, we're out of time. The music's going on any second here. Call back tomorrow. Call back tomorrow. Call back tomorrow and challenge me. Call back tomorrow. We're out of time. Dude, call back tomorrow. Call back tomorrow. Call back tomorrow. The music's going, it's a hard break. Hey folks, hope you enjoyed the discussion. Hope he calls back tomorrow. Have a good evening, everyone. God bless.