Chapters 10 and 11, as we mentioned before, we can describe as a trumpet or the trumpet interlude. This interlude, if you remember, is somewhat similar to the one that we found with the seals, at least in the fact that it appears between the sixth and the seventh of the series. So we learned about the six seals, and then we had the interlude in chapter seven, and then we learned about the seventh seal. And now we have already looked at the first six of the trumpet judgments. And then we have this interlude in chapters 10 and 11, and most of chapter 11. And that will lead up to the seventh trumpet at the end of this chapter, which we'll also read today. And another similarity is not just the placement of it within the text or within the seals and the trumpets, is also, they seem to help explain a little bit more about what might happen to God's people during some of the previously mentioned events. And that's the same with the seals, that's what we find here in the trumpets. We can't be certain as far as the chronology or exactly what time period this might be going, what might be going on here, but it does seem to help explain a different perspective. Not so much judgment on unbelievers, but rather God's preservation, spiritual preservation primarily, of believers during some point in the previous events. So the main themes of this interlude, of this trumpet interlude, we've considered this already, but this is just a little bit review because it's been a little while since we've looked at it already. The main themes are... the service and suffering in the ministry of God's prophets. And by extension, these prophets also represent God's people. Certainly John represents the people of the church throughout all of the church age that would lead up to the coming of Christ. And certainly these two prophets would represent the people of God during the time in which they minister. And so the main themes of this interlude in chapters 10 and 11 include the service and suffering in the ministry of God's prophets and by extension God's people. We spent time looking in chapter 10 where the service, the theme of service is found in the prophetic ministry of John. And then we find this theme of suffering in chapter 11 in the prophetic ministries of the two witnesses. And so we need to keep that theme, that overall overarching theme of these two chapters in mind as we look at them. So again, in chapter 10, God renews John's commission as his prophet. That's sort of the main thrust of that entire chapter as we looked at all of the details. But ultimately, it all hinges on the commission that we come to there in verse 11. John was to prophesy again before, and we looked at how that could also be translated about or even against many peoples and nations and tongues and kings. And so this is John's commission, or really the renewal of John's commission. So why don't we read through this chapter one more time, just to kind of review where we've been, starting in chapter 10, verse one, where John says again, and I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud, and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire. And he had in his hand a little book open, and he set his right foot upon the sea and his left foot upon the earth, and cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth. And when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven and swear by him that liveth forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that therein are, and the earth and the things that therein are, and the sea and the things which are therein, that there should be time or no more delay, time no longer. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book, which is open in the hand of the angel, which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. And I went unto the angel and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up, and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand and ate it up, and it was in my mouth sweet as honey. And as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples and nations and tongues and kings. So that's the first part of this trumpet interlude, and it deals with, again, the service of God's prophet, John. Now, This is where we left off, but one of the questions that we still had kind of lingering, and I think this is something that Ron alluded to, is how does John's commission here, primarily in verse 11 of chapter 10, relate to his life after he was given the book of Revelation? How does this commission relate to him, even in the last remaining years of his life here on earth? And so, even though we really don't have any more details from Scripture about John's ministry, after the exile that he had on Patmos, and of course, he refers to that in chapter 1, verse 9, when he said to the churches of Asia that he's writing to, who also am your brother and companion in tribulation, was in the isle that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." So this was part of his persecution. This was part of the suffering that he was called to endure, even as a faithful apostle and minister of the Lord Jesus Christ. So after that, we really don't have any details about his actual life and ministry from scripture itself. But there are some threads in church history that might help us tie up some of the loose ends of his life, even after revelation was given to us, even after he wrote this book. So just a couple of things that we find in church history, and these are by some pastors that would have known someone that knew the Apostle John, and so we're just talking within a few decades of when he was last seen in this world. But according to one pastor by the name of Irenaeus, Irenaeus was born in 130, and he lived through 2002. And so again, he would have been, you know, just about probably three decades after after John's life. But according to Irenaeus, after Paul founded the church in Ephesus, of course we know that from the book of Acts, ultimately it was John who made his way there. And so this is before the book of Revelation was written. He makes his way to the church in Ephesus, and he became the primary leader and pastor there until, as Irenaeus would say, until the times of the emperor Trajan. And Trajan was the emperor of Rome from 98 to 117. And so, some point during the reign of Trajan, from 98 to 117, was the final breath of the Apostle John in this world. Now, this helps us understand that not only was John given Revelation most likely during the reign of Emperor Domitian, who was before Trajan. As I mentioned before, when we first looked at the Book of Revelation, there are some who hold that it was written back in the time of Emperor Nero. But most scholars and most interpreters, even quite a few of the early church fathers and the church pastors who knew of John, they would concur that it was during the time of the Emperor Domitian. Domitian, his reign was from 81 to 96 AD. And so you've got Domitian up until almost the turn of that century, the first century. You have, I think, another rather obscure emperor in between. And then you have Trajan from 98 to 117. But what happens is, during the reign of Domitian, he seems to have conducted a widespread persecution of Christians toward the end of his reign, so toward the end of 96. And so that's why many people believe that it was at least by 80-96 when John wrote this letter, because he would have probably been exiled by Domitian into the Isle of Patmos. It also helps us to see that even though John was in exile, he was eventually released from exile and returned to Ephesus. So, he was a pastor in Ephesus for, we're not sure exactly how long, but eventually, after he was exiled to Patmos, he returned to Ephesus, because that was his primary place of ministry. That was the church that he was to serve at. And he continued to serve that church as he was able to. At this point in his life, though, certainly age and exile would have taken their toll on his body. And so even though he would have made his way back to Ephesus, he certainly didn't go back with the same vigor and ability, I guess, physical ability as he had before. Because according to Clement of Alexandria, who lived later in the second century, He said that John was a faithful and devoted pastor when, in his old age, on a tour of visitation, he lovingly pursued one of his former converts who had become a robber and reclaimed him to the church. And so this was sort of a historical Tidbit, I guess, that many churches appreciated about John is that even after his exile and return to Ephesus, even as an old, old man, he still had a desire to serve as pastor, even to those that had gone astray. He certainly remembered the Lord Jesus as he was talking about, you know, the good shepherd is the one that goes out to find that one out of the 99, right? And so he himself followed after the Lord Jesus as shepherd. He, even in his old age, lovingly pursued one of his former converts to reclaim him to the church. And so that was what he did, or tried to do, and did the best he could do, even in his old age, there in the city of Ephesus. In addition to this, though, he continued training others to serve and to carry out the gospel message. And there was one individual in particular that we know was actually one of John the Apostle's students. And it's a name that's probably familiar to most of us here. His name was Polycarp. Polycarp was a student of the Apostle John. And then Polycarp actually shared a lot of what John told him to Irenaeus, who became a pastor as well. So you see that we're just a few generations from John himself within that first and second century. And, of course, Polycarp became known as the pastor of Smyrna. And we should be familiar with that city and the name of that city because of what we find in the first part of Revelation, because Jesus himself addressed a letter to the church in Smyrna, actually to the messenger, to the angel of the church of Smyrna. And there are some who believe that it might have been Polycarp himself who was involved in that letter and was actually addressed in that letter. May very well have been. But one of the last stories that we have of the Apostle John is, again, related from Irenaeus. So we have John the Apostle, then we have Polycarp, which, you know, saw John very highly and listened to what he had to teach about Jesus and wanted to share all of the things that he learned about Jesus from John to others. So we have John, then we have Polycarp, and then Polycarp shares with Irenaeus some of these things about John. And John, if you remember from our look at the Gospel of John, he was one of the Sons of Thunder. There were two of those Sons of Thunder, John and James, they were brothers. But he still had that characteristic of being a Son of Thunder even in his old age. So from Irenaeus' pen, He talks about how when John, the disciple of the Lord, was going to bathe in Ephesus. So he was still in his old age in the city of Ephesus, the very place that God had called him to serve. And he perceived that a man by the name of Syrenthes was in the bathhouse. And of course, they did things differently back then. They had bathing houses. They wouldn't necessarily bathe in their homes. They would have these public baths. And so he went into this public bath, you know, just to do what we would do when we would bathe. And there was a man by the name of Syrenthes there who was a heretic. He was actually someone who lived in Ephesus who actually denied the incarnation of Jesus. And Irenaeus is recounting the story that Polycarp told him, that even in his old age, John, when hearing that Serenthes was within, rushed out of the bathhouse without bathing and exclaimed, Let us fly, lest the bathhouse fall down, because of Serenthes, the enemy of truth, who is within. Though truly a son of thunder, and even though he is certainly a man who writes about the love of God, he never let the love of God suffer at the expense of the truth about God and the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ. And certainly what Irenaeus tells us can be compared to what John also wrote in his second letter, in 2 John 10 and 11, when he says to the church, and really to all of us, if there comes any unto you and brings not this doctrine, Receive him not into your house, neither bid him God's speed, for he that biddeth him God's speed is partaker of his evil deeds. So John did not even want to be under the same roof as this heretic. And he made it a point to show to the people around him that this man was a heretic, and he needed to repent of his heresy and turn back to the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, toward the end of John's life, and again, he was an old man, but he became known as John the Agent. And according to Jerome, who lived several centuries later, but again, this would be sort of tradition, oral tradition that came down to him as well. He says that in his extreme old age, he was carried to the meeting place in the arms of his disciples. Even as an invalid, even as a shut-in, he did not want to forsake the assembling together with other believers. And so he would ask his church members, take me. And so in their own arms, they would carry him and he would go to church and repeat again and again the exhortation, little children, love one another. Little children, love one another. And so even in his old age, even in his invalid state, even probably to his last breath, he would say to the church, little children, love one another. And then he would add, this is the Lord's command. And if this alone be done, it is enough. Now, according to most church historians, again, based off the works of Polycarp and Irenaeus and Jerome and others, he most likely died of natural causes, when he was in his nineties. So again, a very old man. And it was in the early part of Trajan's reign. So more than likely we could kind of date his death at about 100 AD. So right at the turn of that century. if he penned the book of Revelation in about 95 or 96 AD, it wasn't much longer that he had to live in this world. And so within three or four, maybe even five years of the composition of Revelation in his 90s, he was laid to rest and was buried in the city of Ephesus. Within probably a century of his death, an old church was built, and that was something that was done by a lot of the Christians in some of those places to commemorate someone that was very special to them. They would establish a church and build a building, a meeting house, near or on where the place was of their burial. This particular church is no longer a church. It's in ruins, but you can still go there and see part of the ruins of a church that was built on the original church, again, still in ruins in the city of Ephesus. So it would seem from the history that we have, and again, that's just a little bit of what we have. Actually, it's not a whole lot of what we have. It would seem from the history that we have that when we come back here to Revelation 10, verse 11, that the prophecy, the prophesying that John was to do. again, before or about is probably the better way of looking at it because of the Greek word epi. About or even against many peoples and nations and tongues and kings is actually found in the book of Revelation itself. Certainly he would preach and proclaim the gospel even in his later years, but it seems like what we find in Revelation and especially the latter part of Revelation from chapter 11 on is the prophesying that is being described here in Of course, as any preacher, he would have continued to proclaim the message of the everlasting gospel that he'd been given by the Lord to whomever he had the opportunity. But it seems like there's no record of John going far from the city of Ephesus to do so. He certainly wouldn't have been able to go to Rome to speak to those kings or to those emperors, even though there is some tradition that he might have before his exile. But over time, we know that his message ultimately has gone out. And I'm sure there have been many peoples and nations and tongues and even kings that have heard the message of Revelation. So even though he may not have personally went to these people and went to these places, yet The book that he wrote certainly has. And not just the book of Revelation, but the book of John, and the three letters that he penned as well. But there is no record from church history of John going far from the city of Ephesus in those four years between the writing of it, of Revelation, and then his death. But over time, again, it has gone into all the world. It kind of reminds us of what is written of Abel, who lived thousands and thousands of years ago, even at the very beginning. So even though John has been dead for nearly 2,000 years, he, being dead, yet speaks. He speaks through the word that God had given him, in the book of Revelation especially. So John's prophecy does continue. And as it does, when we look at the rest of the trumpet interlude that we now come to here in chapter 11, Um, even though there seems to be a clear break because of the chapter headings, you know, I, I think sometimes, um, you know, we, we forget that they're not inspired, um, that the chapters flowed and the verses flowed one into the other. It seems like the chapter divisions give us a pretty clear break. But when you look at the text itself, the break is not so clear because right after again, verse 11, Right after the angel says to John, thou must prophesy again before or about many peoples and nations and tongues and kings, get rid of chapter 11, that heading, you go right into verse 1, the very next word is and. It's and. The Greek word is chi. It's a connecting word. It's a coordinating conjunction. And essentially what it shows us is that what follows in chapter 11 is really all part of what John was supposed to prophesy about many peoples and nations and tongues and kings. And so the prophecy begins in chapter 11, the very commission that he was given in chapter 10. So the connection between John's commission in chapter 10, the first part of the trumpet interlude, And John's communication in chapter 11, the second part of the trumpet interlude, is very, very close. And that's something that we need to keep in mind, especially when we come to these two chapters. It is one interlude. And the renewal of his call and his commission is related to the communication of this prophecy that we will read about and learn about starting today here in chapter 11. So the connection between the commission and the communication is close, and that's one of the reasons why many, including myself, see, starting in chapter 11, part of the little book, right? Part of the little book that was in that mighty angel's hand, and so it contains things that are both sweet and bitter, right? Both sweet and bitter, not only for the people of God, not only for believers who will live during this time, but also for unbelievers. It is both sweet and bitter, and so this would be part of that little book that he was to eat and digest that, according to verses 9 and 10, would be sweet as honey in his mouth, but then become bitter in his belly. As we'll read in a few moments, there are two ways, then, in which John prophesies again. Again, so chapter 11 is closely related to chapter 10. Thou must prophesy again. So how does he prophesy? Well, there's two ways. In verses 1 and 2, we're going to see that he prophesies through a special prophetic activity. A special prophetic activity. Now, this is nothing new to us when we come to, especially the Old Testament. How many times did God prophesy through his prophets in the way they lived, in the way they acted? You know, we learn about how Isaiah had to act out certain things in prophecy and Jeremiah had to act out certain things in prophecy And so what we find here is that John himself is going to act out something to prophesy something That God is giving to him So that's one way that prophets back in the Old Testament and even here in the New Testament prophesy through activity But then that activity leads us to a second way that he prophesies again, and that is in verses 3 through 13, he prophesies through a special prophetic announcement. a special prophetic announcement that that is something that is actually going to take place. God wants him to share to the churches in Revelation and to the rest of the church through all ages about what is yet to come. And though some still see this as something that is ongoing through the church age, it specifically applies to a period of time yet to come. And then as we finish up the interlude, the interlude ends in verse 13. of this chapter. Then we actually come to the seventh and final trumpet that is sounded, which will further anticipate and announce the second coming of Christ in verses 14 through 19. So there's really three main sections in chapter 11, the second part of the interlude. You've got the prophetic activity in verses 1 and 2. We have the prophetic announcement in verses 3 through 13. And then with the close of the interlude, we have the seventh and final trumpet from verses 14 through 19. And of course, we're gonna break it all down as best we can to hopefully understand it a little better. But to start, we're gonna read through chapter 11 again all the way through the end. So remember those three main sections of this chapter. It's a prophetic activity beginning there in verse one. And, close connection to chapter 10, and John writes, there was given me a reed, like unto a rod. And the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and then that worship therein. But the court, which is without the temple, leave out, and measure it not. For it is given unto the Gentiles. or nations, and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand, two hundred, and threescore days clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of all the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies. And if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy, and have power over waters to turn them to blood and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them and shall overcome them and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them and make merry and shall send gifts one to another because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and a half, the spirit of life from God entered into them and they stood upon their feet and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake and the 10th part of the city fell. And in the earthquake were slain of men 7,000 and the remnant were affrighted and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe is past, and behold, the third woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded, and there were great voices in heaven saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever. And the four and 20 elders which sat before God on their seats fell upon their faces and worship God, saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art and wast and art to come, because thou hast taken to thee thy great power and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come. And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that they shouldest give reward unto thy servants, the prophets, that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name small and great, and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament, and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Obviously, there's a lot. in this chapter that brings us a lot of questions, right? And they're good questions to have, but we're just going to start off there in verse one and kind of work our way through and get as far as we can in this chapter, and hopefully we'll be able to understand better what the message is that John is to prophesy. Now, the first part of this chapter is one of the most challenging parts in all of revelation i think it's interesting because as i read through a lot of the different literature and commentaries that have been written on revelation it seems like everyone of them comes to a passage in revelation that says this is the hardest one to understand and it seems to progress The message of the churches, chapters two and three, aren't the most difficult things to understand. But starting in chapter six, I think we start to see a few of them start to say, well, this is more challenging. But when we come to chapter 11, then there's sort of an agreement, a consensus, that now we're into the realm of things that are pretty hard for us to grasp and understand. And it continues on as we get closer and closer to the end of this book. But I think as we go forward, Keeping our perspective in the basis of what we've already looked at in the first 10 chapters, hopefully it'll help us to build our understanding of this chapter and beyond. Because this is really sort of a touchstone. upon which a lot of other chapters in Revelation are built. And so we will look at chapters 12 and 13 that may also help us understand chapter 11 a little bit better too. So remember the book of Revelation is a whole to us, but I think we can come to a good understanding of this chapter that will build our understanding of the rest as well. But it all begins with the first two verses. And as I mentioned before, the connection between chapter 11 and 10 is very close, and it starts out with a prophetic activity by the Apostle John. So John is once again invited to participate in his vision. We need to remember that this is still part of his vision. And John is told, I want you to participate now in this vision. He's not just seeing, he's not just hearing, he's being active in it. And that is the prophetic activity which we find here that we also find in many places in the Old Testament as well. So let's look at those verses again. We're not going to get too far into these verses today, but hopefully we'll lay the groundwork for it. It says, And there was given to me a reed like a rod. And the angel stood saying, and by the way, the angel stood is not found in the majority of manuscripts. It's only found in a few manuscripts. And the reason for that is because in nearly all of the texts that we have, there's no clear identity of the person who says to John, rise and measure the temple. Okay, so even though the King James has it, you can kind of put that in parentheses, all right? Because in just about all of the manuscripts that we have, you don't find that, okay? But there are a few that do have it, but the vast majority of them, and even the oldest of them, do not have it. So keep that in mind as we go forward. There was given to me a reed like unto a rod, And someone said to John, rise and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple, leave out and measure it not, for it is given unto the Gentiles, and the holy city shall they tread underfoot forty and two months. There's a lot there that we're gonna have to unpack. There's a lot there that we're going to explore. But like much of Revelation, these verses have been looked at in a number of ways. But most of the time, how you come to these verses sort of reflects your understanding of eschatology as a whole. And if you remember when we started out our series on eschatology, eschatology simply means the study of the end times, all right? Eschatos is the end. Ology is the study or the word of, and so basically how you approach your understanding of the end times, and there's different ways to approach it. A lot of that is reflected in how you look at the millennial kingdom in chapter 20, but it'll also affect how you look at these verses here. And so there are quite a few who consider the things mentioned in these verses to be very literal places and people and objects that are here in this world. And again, there's a lot of people that look at it this way, and it's based on sort of their understanding and interpretation of eschatology as a whole. They see them as literal places and people and objects in this world, so keep that in mind. And so they would say that what John is seeing in this vision in chapter 11 is something like a video of things that are yet to come, and it would involve a rebuilt temple in the city of Jerusalem someday. Obviously, there's no temple in Jerusalem right now, but they would say that this is a picture of a rebuilt, a renewed, an altogether new temple that is in the city of Jerusalem someday. So there are those who would look at it in a very literal way. But, as we've already seen, on the other hand, there are some who would take these objects and people and places in a very symbolic way. And they would say that the various things that we've looked at, that we've read, you're talking about the The temple of God, the altar, the people that worship therein, the court that is without the temple, the Gentiles and the nations and the holy city and all of these things, they would say that they're symbols for both believers and unbelievers. uh... and so they would focus on them in different ways so they would say it's very symbolic and that you know the court would refer to unbelievers whereas the temple of god would just refer to believers and so they would say looking at it in a symbolic way that god is showing to john how he will deal with this world in the last days though some people would see it how god deals with this world in all of the church age uh... so just ongoing until the lord returns But one of the things that I like that Robert Mounts once wrote about symbolism, and we know that Revelation is full of symbols. Yet, what is symbolism about? Is it to hide things? No, not really, because this is a revelation. God is expressing to us things in different ways so that we can know what really is going to happen. He puts it this way. I think I put it there on your message guide. Symbolism is not a denial of historicity. That's just a big word to say of literal events, okay? It's not a denial that there aren't going to be literal things that happen based on this prophecy, but rather, it's a figurative method of communicating reality. In other words, there's word pictures. Instead of object lessons, they're word lessons. And these words are meant to convey figures and pictures to us to display to us what actually is going to happen in this world. And so that actually lends to it where you can apply what's going to happen in the future to things that would happen throughout the age of the church. But that's just another way of looking at it. And it depends on how you look at Revelation and eschatology as a whole. Both of those kinds of approaches do deal with the details of this text differently. But overall, and this is something key to remember, whether you look at it in a literal fashion or a symbolic fashion, They seem to agree, and I would say they most of the time agree, that the main message is clear. The main message of especially these two verses is clear, and that is there is a spiritual preservation by God of His people amidst physical suffering and even death. And that especially applies to what is yet to come before Jesus returns, and especially about the great tribulation that the church will experience during that time. And so whether you look at this in a literal way or a symbolic way, the main message is the same. It is one of spiritual preservation amidst physical suffering and even death. Now, one of the things that we've already looked at is this is a familiar theme throughout the book of Revelation. You see, for believers, death is not defeat. And I think that's sometimes hard for us to grasp, especially when we think about how we have the cry of martyrs in Revelation chapter six, and we even read about how believers will be beheaded for their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. And you think, well, how is it that that kind of death and how is it that that kind of persecution and how that kind of oppression can actually be victory? Well, that's one of the main themes of Revelation. In fact, that's one of the main themes that Jesus gave us in the Gospels. He said, don't worry about what people can do to your body. Worry about the one who can deal with your soul. And so if you know the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, death is not defeat. Because even though the beast or anybody that's associated with the beast might kill your body, yet in your death there is victory, just like Jesus. When he died on the cross, the world thought he was defeated. But what happened to Jesus? Death could not keep its prey. He rose again the third day. And of course, we see a very similar pattern going on here in the lives of these two witnesses, right? To display that death is not defeat. Instead, it is actually victory. Suffering and martyrdom is seen through the lens of Jesus as triumph and victory all through the book of Revelation. It's pictured in the ministry of the two witnesses in this chapter. But even if you look at chapter 12, verse 11, We're going to find that these Christian brethren and they overcame him. They overcame this, this dragon by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they love not their lives unto the death. In other words, though they died, they overcame the dragon. Even through death, they achieved the victory over the dragon. And so that's why Paul and others describe how death is not a defeat for those who know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. And I think that is one of the main themes of this part of the trumpet interlude. This is the message that God gave to John to give to his people. In the details of this, the main theme is, yes, you may experience physical suffering and persecution and death, even in a way that no one ever has before. And yet, you will be spiritually secure and preserved by God's grace. And so even though we might come to disagree on some of the details of these verses, as so many others have, the main message is the most important message. God will preserve his people, even though they may go through intense suffering and even death. And yet, that's where a lot of people would probably end looking at chapter 11, because they don't want to dig into the details. And yet, the details we have are there, right? And so obviously the details are important, and so that's why we're going to dig in. So just like we've done in other difficult parts of Revelation, we need to start looking at these verses not just in a literal way, not just in a symbolic way, but I'm gonna put it in a contextual way. That is, we need to see how these people and places and objects are used elsewhere in scripture. And first and foremost, how they are used in the book of Revelation itself. And then, of course, you look at the context of the New Testament and then the context of the Old Testament to really get a picture of what is being described here. And so, again, some will just say, well, we need to take this in a literal way. Some would say we need to take it in a symbolic way. I say we need to take it in a contextual way and see where the text takes us. You know, it may lead us to a literal understanding. It may lead us to a more symbolic understanding, or it may lead us to something that is in between. We need to let the context decide. We need to let how these words and how these people, how these places, how these things are dealt with in other passages. And certainly in doing so, hopefully we can better understand the details and the message that God wants John to give to his church back then and even today. And so really the first thing and the only thing that we're going to be able to get to today is what we can say is the equipment of John's prophetic activity. And that's the first part there in verse one. John says there was given me a rod, a reed like unto a rod, a reed like unto a rod. So this is his equipment in order to do his prophetic activity. Now, we already mentioned that the word and shows us that there's a close connection between chapter 10 and chapter 11. But right after his commission, John is given a special object to use. And that object comes with two main questions. The first question is, who gave it to John? Who gave this reed like a rod to John? There was given to me a reed like unto a rod. Some would see it as the mighty angel, all right? Obviously, he's the one that's in closest proximity to John in this part of his vision. I mean, he's still standing there, right, with his foot in the sea and his foot on the land. So some would conclude that it is the mighty angel, and that's one of the reasons why those few manuscripts that we have would then put, and the angel stood sane. So it would be the same angel in chapter 10 who gives him the rod and then says, rise and measure. That certainly can make sense if the angel stood sane is actually part of the text. But, because of a feature that we've already found many times in Revelation, it may be God Himself who gives this reed like to a rod to John. It may be God Himself. And this is the reason why. Remember the phrase, was given? This is another one of those divine passives that we've looked at before. Most of the time in Revelation when you find that phrase, was given, when something is given to someone, we're not exactly told who gave it. God is often the unexpressed agent in this book. It's a divine passive. So that's one of the reasons why many, I would consider it as well, God Himself, or the Lord Jesus perhaps, even the Lamb, God is the one giving not only the commission to John, but also giving this reed like a rod to John. But though this is a vision, and not all of the details are crystal clear, okay, It doesn't really matter if it was the angel or God, he still gets this read. We still are assured that God is actively and intimately involved in all of this, and certainly that divine passive helps us see that. He wants both John's attention and our attention to be drawn ultimately to that second question. It's not so much who gave it, but what was given. What is this equipment that was given to John? It's a reed like unto a rod. Now, a reed was and still is a plant that grew plentifully along the Jordan River and was used for all kinds of things. I mean, you've ever done any basket weaving? You'd use these kinds of reeds, okay? But reeds, if they're fairly young, they could be small. They could be fairly weak. But as they grew, these reeds could also become very tall and very strong. And so, There's all kinds of uses for these reeds. One of the uses of a reed was for measuring things, for measuring. Depending on how big it was, they could measure how tall something was, or even how far something is. In fact, a reed will also be found in Revelation 21, It's the only other place you find a reed in Revelation. But in chapter 21, that's talking about the new heavens, the new earth, the new Jerusalem coming down. There will be an angel who has a golden reed to measure the city that will come down from heaven. So measuring things was a very common thing to do with a reed. But this reed is like unto a rock. A rod is something that was fairly strong, all right? It was used for a walking stick or even a staff. It's the same word that is used in Mark 6, 8 when Jesus says, take your staff, all right? So it'd be a walking stick, a hiking stick, if you will. Elsewhere in Revelation, we find rods, but the only other places that we find this rod, it's a rod of iron. a rod of iron which Jesus and his people will one day use to rule the world. And so, yes, he is given this reed like a rod, but there might be some symbolic significance about that because of the size and strength of this reed that is given that is more like a rod to measure some significant things. But one of the things that we need to remember is that there's an Old Testament context to this as well. Whatever the nature of this read, it points back to another episode in the ministry of another prophet by the name of Ezekiel. If you remember in chapter 10, the renewal of John's commission was sort of a reflection of Ezekiel's commission in the first part of Ezekiel. Well, here we find a reflection also of Ezekiel toward the end of his book. So keep your finger here and go back with me real quick to Ezekiel chapter 40. Ezekiel chapter 40. and keep in mind what we just read about this reed like unto a rock. In Ezekiel chapter 40 verse 3, Ezekiel also sees a man whose appearance was like the appearance of brass. He had a line of flax in his hand and a measuring reed, a measuring reed. Now, we know the size of this reed. In verse 5, the length of this measuring reed is given as 6 cubits and a hand breadth, so around 10 feet. And that's why a lot of people would relate probably the reed that John has is probably similar to Ezekiel's reed in that sense. But then, this heavenly man, we can describe him that way, proceeds to take a detailed measurement of a vast temple complex that did not then exist, and still has never yet existed. In fact, in verse 4, it was so that Ezekiel would behold with his eyes, hear with his ears, and set his heart upon all that he will show him. Now, we've looked at Ezekiel, and we know that Ezekiel, starting in chapter 40 on, it's a struggle to understand the full significance of this temple in Ezekiel. We still will struggle with that. But the measuring reed back in Ezekiel points to something. It points to the certainty and security of what's measured. Whether that is a temple yet to come or that's describing a temple in eternity, you know, whatever the case may be, it deals with certainty and security. That's the point of measuring back in Ezekiel. And because Ezekiel is sort of a background to John, this may also be the primary meaning behind John's prophetic activity of measuring with this reed like unto a rod. What he's about to measure is something that is certain and secure. And remember, that's one of the main themes that we have in this chapter, is truly God's preservation even through physical suffering. So with that equipment in hand, next time we'll start looking at John's personal engagement in this prophetic activity when he's told there in verse one to rise and measure.