Well, this is a week that I've been looking forward to. I really value these men and their leadership in our church. I've only been here a year, so last year was my first time, and I really enjoyed it. And these men are the leaders of our church, and I'm very grateful for that. Jerry, would you mind opening us up in a quick word of prayer for our time? Our Heavenly Father, I just want to thank you for your love to us. And Lord, that you are a God that touches our lives every day. and every moment of the day. And Lord, there are times when we need you so close to us, Lord, that we just want to feel your presence. And Lord, I just pray for these people that are really hurting, for the families that their health is really in a tough way. And Lord, I pray that you would just guide them and be with them. Lord, I just thank you for Pastor and Dave and Jerry. And Jacob, today, Lord, that you just speak to their hearts and, Lord, guide and direct each one of us. Help us, Lord, to be stewards of your word. And, Lord, give us the words we ask that we be clear in our responses. Lord, just thank you for all you've done for us. Lord, I just thank you for each one of our brothers and sisters. in our church body today, Lord, that you just also be with them, we ask. In your precious name, amen. Thanks, Jerry. Well, I think we'll just start off. I'll ask each of you to please introduce yourself, maybe tell us your role on the board, how long you've been an elder, what makes you guys blend well, whatever you feel like. Mr. Schmidt, would you like to start? Yeah. Use your microphone, please. OK, I'm the first jury today. Jerry Schmidt, if nobody knows me. I don't know. Do we blend well? I think we do pretty good. I think so. I just got put on the board this year. I have not been on for a while, but it's got its good points, and sometimes they can be difficult. But that's what leadership is all about, isn't it, dads? Isn't it? Yeah. Well, I'm Jerry McNeese. I've been on the board now. This is my fourth year, I guess. And I'm the church administrator and administrative elder, so the chairman of the board. I work with Timothy to set up our agendas and get our meetings, make sure everything's ready to run for them so they run smoothly. Good morning, everyone. I am the secretary on the elder board, and I take notes during the meeting, and I post those notes on the board right over there. There's nothing secret about our elder meetings. You're welcome to read our notes and see what's going on. If you're curious about the financial health of our church or what's being planned, free to talk to us or look at the notes. And I also am just the lead for the youth Sunday school classes as well. So that's my role. I'm Timothy Schmidt, and I've been on the elder board for 13 and a half years And it's been a great privilege working with these men working with other men in the church that I can see here this morning who have served as elders and I just really appreciate that we have a metaphorical roundtable there's no head in this church, but Christ and These these men they do a great job of leading and recognizing the role that God has called them to as shepherds of the flock and not just board members who run the business of the church, but men who model godliness and are praying for the flock and shepherding in personal ways as well. Great. I understand you guys are reading a book together and discussing it. What book is that and why did you choose it? David? This is the book right here. It's a systematic theology by Wayne Grudem. This is what we're going through. In the last year, we've been covering topics such as the covenants, sin, nature of man, male and female, creation of man, Satan and demons, angels, prayer, miracles, God's providence, and creation. So there's a chapter on each of those topics. that we cover each week, excuse me, each month. And we discuss them at our elder breakfast. And Timothy usually gives us some additional commentary on these subjects as well. So that's where we're at. You want to? Great. You want to add anything? No, this is just a basic overview of all the theology that elders need to know. It's Romans in an expanded version. Great. Well, today being Reformation Day, I'm going to ask you about the Protestant Reformation. Specifically, what's the significance of it to us, our church, and you guys specifically? I was just going to share something. I just want to brag on Jerry McNeese here for a minute. He had this great idea, and in the bulletin here and in our calendar, there's a daily Bible reading. And it takes you through the Bible in a year, and that's great. My understanding before that, before the Reformation, we didn't have a personal Bible in our hands and we couldn't read the Bible on a daily basis like that and go through it through a year. So that's a very special thing and I'm thankful that I actually go to a church that promotes that, a daily Bible reading, get through it in one year. So that's a really nice thing we do here and I think that's very special. Yeah, it was at the time when Martin Luther realized that there was abuse and extra taxes on the poor and he nailed his 95 thesis to the door of the church. His ornery students translated him out of the Latin, which was written for the leaders of the church at that time. And so, yeah, we have the Bible in our hand and we have the personal relationship with God without all the steps of going through the priest and the formalities that they had to back then. He realized that the scripture is sufficient, that Christ alone is sufficient, that his sacrifice. I did a little research again on the beginning of the Reformation and there were several names that came to mind. There was John Huss, Mr. Wycliffe. Is that John too? Yeah, John Wycliffe. And like I mentioned, Martin Luther. There was a couple other men that were mentioned as ones that, they say they're the ones that had the spark and Martin Luther lit the flame. as far as scripture being known to all the people. Remember when scripture way back in the kind of the dark ages almost, it was all done in Latin. And the normal people didn't know how to, they didn't know Latin. And it was Eastman and it was John Wycliffe that translated the Bible from Latin into English. And this is what gave the people, the poor people, the people of the world, to see Scripture for the first time. And we've got to be very thankful that here we are reading Scripture in our Bibles and not having to listen to somebody translate it for us, when we can see it for ourselves. It's just an awesome deal that it just opened up a whole new world for the people of the world. I love those answers. I just wanted to put an exclamation point on it by pointing out that Jesus did that same thing in his time. He took the Word of God and he took it to the people. And he didn't pick disciples who were educated and part of the elite ruling class. He picked fishermen, tax collector, just ordinary people. And so the Reformation was that return to bringing the Word of God to the people and trusting them with it. And God trusts you with the Word of God, and He wants it alive in your heart, and you don't depend upon any elite class or any ruling class, any sacerdotal class, no priestly officers, but the Reformation is all about the Word of God and the people of God, and I just love that you guys brought that out. Great. Well, it is a blessing that we have God's Word in our hands. And that transitions well to another question. What do devotions look like in your home? What do they look like with kids, if you have kids or if you used to have kids in the home? Can you paint us a picture of what a daily or weekly at-home devotional time is like for you? Yes, when the kids were younger, I used to do a Saturday morning for an hour or two hour discussion. It was just basically, what did you learn in Sunday school class and let's have a discussion about it, go over questions. I wanted to see their little Sunday school class sheets. So I used to do that regularly. I don't do that as much anymore, just because two of them are in adult Sunday school class now, and one is, I'm already his Sunday school class teacher, so I already have that personal contact with him already. But that's how it looks. Lori also covers just some prayer and Bible time with them during homeschooling on each day of the week. So that's kind of our devotion time. In our home, well, our kids are gone. And at the time, we used a Christian storybook to read with our kids and talk with different topics that came up with them. We always had a time of prayer before they went to bed. I just want to say, looking back, In raising our kids, parents, don't depend on the church to do your spiritual raising of your kids. Don't depend on the church. It's your job. And looking back, there's things I wish I could have done different, or I would have done different. But every day we were able to spend some time reading these stories together and had a time of prayer. With just Lou and I now, This year, I started reading different books of the Bible. Last year, I went through the whole thing. This year, I kind of switched gears. The first book I picked was Jeremiah. I'm going, why did I pick that book? I don't know. But it was a good one to start with. Lou, I know, is reading through the Bible also. We do have a special time. This last four or five weeks, we've had a real great time in our devotional. We've had a little bit more time to spend together. And so, you know, I can thank the Lord for that. It's been a blessing God has provided. And we've had some real special times together with me and my wife. But so, yeah, we do have a special time. And I guess I'm going to have to get up earlier when I start back to work. When it comes to entertainment like music, video games, stuff that's not worshiping God, at least face value, where do you draw the line as far as partaking and enjoying? Give me your thoughts on that. I'm still trying to figure out that line, and I haven't found it yet. With music, I like all types of music. I just like music. secular or Christian music. If it's secular, as long as it has a decent message and it's not a song about something evil, then I'm fine with that. Movies. We're not huge movie people. I mean, if my kids have seen probably seen less than 20 movies, and most of those are filtered through mom and dad. We make sure there's nothing, you know, no pornography or bad language, although there's some that have bad language, and it's just the way it is, but don't promote that. We're not video game people, but there's nothing wrong with that. I think there's some great video games out there that are educational, so I have no problem with that. But do I have a line? It's just mom and dad's moral compass on, you know, would I want Is it good for my kids to hear that? I just make a quick comment. It's interesting how movies I used to watch, you know, for instance, the movie Grease. I don't know if you've ever heard that movie or seen it. When I was a kid, you know, I watched it. It was kind of fun, you know, with the music. And now I listen to it and I'm like, wow, there's some bad stuff in that movie. I don't even want my kids to listen to that. So yeah, it's something how we change and grow and mature over the years. Me, if anybody's been in our Sunday School classes, you've probably figured out I like sci-fi movies. And and there were a couple there was one I was really looking forward to looking at and to go on to watching it was in a whole line of movies and I saw one of the previews and one of the lines in at the villain says I was once known as Yahweh and I went okay You've crossed the line there Another movie I was looking forward to is an animated one and and I in the end I found out that yeah They go up and they kill God OK, yeah, those anything blasphemous like that, anything that definitely crosses the line and goes against, you know, there's only one Yahweh. He wasn't ever known as other gods. Otherwise, yeah, what? Movies are getting less and less. If you take out the language, or if you leave the language as your dividing line, it's getting harder and harder to go see movies. And music, yeah, I like all kinds of music, but I have presets on my radio, so if a song comes on, I just push it and switch stations. I don't even know how to run a video game. I don't even, I'm not even sure what they look like anymore. I mean, can you play with them on your phone or? Yes. You can. Okay. Well, I do solitaire once in a while on my phone. Does that count for a video game? Is it entertaining to you? Okay. Well, several years ago, Lou and I used to watch, we enjoyed NCIS, crime solving stuff, when it got to be so Yeah, there's like you said there's some bad language on there, but when it got to be always They started having more homosexual and gay couples on there. We shut it off. We're done and Just recently last year we cancelled our cable because there was just nothing to watch Even we were watching cake boss. Have you guys ever heard of that? And they even start getting stuff on there. I'm going ah So now we're watching the show on, was it Roku? I think it's Treehouse Master. I don't know if anybody's ever heard of that. Some guy. A family out of Washington, they build treehouses. Pretty cool. But even, there was an episode here recently that they had a gay couple from New York or something going, I'm done. We still watch it, but we just monitor it, you know what I mean? So, you know, that's the key. Like you said, we have to monitor that stuff. Okay. I just wanted to add that, you know, one of the nice things about living in the time that we do is that all the old stuff is still available. You don't have to watch the new garbage. You can go back and watch stuff, you know, as far back as you want. You can go back 60, 70 years if you want. But, you know, for some of the language and other things that get into the films, I just want to give a free advertisement for a service called Clearplay. I know I'm not supposed to advertise when I'm doing this type of thing, but I just appreciate that they're there and they're in business and they allow you to filter what you want out of the streaming services and they also have a DVD service. So if you're interested in watching some entertainment without having to mute everything yourself, it mutes it for you and I think it's good to have. Alright, do you guys have a reliable news source that you count on to get your information, or at least a couple? It seems more difficult to know what is truth from any sort of news source, so I'd like your wise input on that. Anytime I'm in the car by myself, I always listen to local or national talk radio, just curious what people are talking about, what the hot news items are. I get news headlines just at work with the federal government. I always scan Fox News internet in the morning just to see if there's any bridge collapses in the nation that I need to know about and be briefed on. or what the national conversation is about transportation funding and all that. I'm curious about that. We also subscribe to the Epoch Times newspaper. It comes out once a week. It's interesting. I also look at ntimesheadlines.org. It kind of gives you some idea of what's going on in the Christian world. I also look at the Voice of the Martyr. I get their monthly magazine on that. So yeah, it's a mix of a little bit of everything. If you don't know David, he works with bridges, so that's why he made that bridge collapsing comment. Well, I used to work for one of the news media, and I'm really doubtful there is a trustworthy one out there. Everything has a slant. I would love to know. My brother finds some interesting new things, and I haven't figured out where he's finding all his news at. I do just watch the local news, find out what's going on. Usually what's going on in our area is going on elsewhere. It just takes a little longer to get here. I used to listen to Fox a lot. I don't even listen to Fox anymore. Some of the news I get is from emails that I get, different news sources. I get on Facebook once in a while, but that's not even trustworthy. It depends on what's on there, who's on there, whatever. I talk to a lot of friends, my family. I like to talk with my boys and other people that got different news sources, but I don't know. I don't even listen to any news media anymore. Well, on the topic of misinformation, my kids go to public schools. And it seems like, at times, what they're being taught at school is in direct opposition of what I'm teaching them at home. And it's not just, it's the obvious sexuality misleading. It's basing science on nothing. But there's logic issues, and I know Timothy spoke about this before, but I would like Some advice or input on, are public schools still a viable resource for the education of kids who want to grow up to be God-honoring people? I wrote down some notes. I'm going to say this, and you can disagree with me if you want. I think it is a viable option. But that's the word right there, but. You're going to have to be involved in every aspect of your kids' education, every aspect. You have to know the teachers and what they think and what they're trying to do with their agenda. Even with the back of their mind, you're going to have to know that. You've got to know what your school board is doing. And everybody has heard what the school boards across the country are pushing, their agenda, even here at Norris. So you've got to be involved in everything. Yes, I think it's a viable option. I think there are probably some great schools out there that are not following some of the liberal agenda that's out there. But boy, you've really got to be on your toes, I think, as parents. And unfortunately, they're even trying to make, what, parents human terrorists now, from what I've heard. So I think it is, but I just want to say that word, but. Because the rest is on you as far as a parent Well, I'm biased I get my paycheck from the school, so I'm gonna say yes I Do see a lot of stuff in the schools that I wonder where they're going with it It looks a lot different than when I remember what it was when I was in school and as society does slide further and further away from the truth itself and and more toward I Don't know more toward evil evil thoughts evil Anything you know taking they've taken prayer out of school. They've taken the Bible out of school and but Kids you can that that means the teachers can't teach it that doesn't mean you cannot believe it Yeah, if parents have enough time to put in to Reteach their kids there are good things to learn in school at this time I'm gonna I'm gonna do like Jerry, but I'm not gonna say for how long We homeschool our children. I would just make the comment that, yes, I think there's still good quality Christian teachers out there and leadership in schools. I know they're out there. They're trying to do their best. I'm not connected that much with the public schools. I hear some stories. It seems like the pendulum is going too far one way, and I hope it I'm a pretty optimistic person. I think it'll shift back the other way because people get fed up with the way things are going with the public schools. I am very thankful we live in a time where we have a lot of options for education. There's homeschooling. There's private school. There's private tutoring. There's public school. There's so many curriculums out there. So we do have a lot of freedom in that. But anyway, I'm probably not the best to talk on that subject because we're not that connected. I'm largely in agreement with what first Jerry said down there in the end. I grew up in public schools and I went through the University of Nebraska, graduated there in 97. And so I wanted to just point out that schools are not the same, as it was already said, as to when you were in school. And even in the last few years, I think there's been a dramatic shift. Schools get to a tipping point, I think. There's a movement and momentum builds. And so I do question whether or not we are past that tipping point with the public schools. I'm not as optimistic about the future of public schools. And we homeschool our children, but they are involved with some activities there at Norris, and we're trying to find out more about the school and give some good feedback and input to the school board, try to be a good influence there. Worldviews are very important. Worldviews are very important. And there's not a neutral position. The public schools are not neutral in relationship to the truth. There might be people there that are for the truth, but as a whole, the school is hostile to the truth. And if you're going to send your kids there, you need to know that and be aware of that. And your kids need to know that. know how to handle that hostility, because the hostility, sometimes more open, sometimes less, but the subtle hostility does have a lot of power. Sorry, I got one more thing I'd like to say. You know, when we talk about the school boards, we talk about the state board of education, And I would like to say that we have a gentleman here in this church that wants to be nominated on that board to have some clarity, to bring some balance to what our State Board of Education is pushing right now. So if you don't know this, Matt Ennis is asking to be nominated on that board by the governor. So if you haven't put your two cents worth in, pray about it. Consider Matt as nominee for that position. Yeah. The trick my son let me know he uses at school is, if it's an answer that opposes what God has said, you just write, the textbook says, and then you give your answer. And his conscience is clear. I thought that was wise of him. Thanks for those comments. That's a that's a tough subject and especially for me as a parent with kids who are currently Experiencing that I appreciate it Let's move on to some prophecy topics we recently hosted a prophecy conference Why is that important? Why is it? Why is it crucial to know what's coming? Why does it matter if I believe that the return of Christ will be on a certain time? Why does it matter if I have a a pre-tribulation rapture review. The pre-trip, pre-millennial viewpoint, I'm just, I'm not a super intelligent person, but when I just read the Bible just as plainly as can be, and I've read it cover to cover three, four times, it just seems to point me towards a pre-trip, pre-millennial type viewpoint. So if that's the case, then that's, why aren't we embracing that? read into it more than what the text is saying, then how do we discern that and decide, you know, kind of make the judgment, oh, maybe it means this and that, and then who's right and wrong in the interpretation. And it just sends you down a lot of rabbit holes. So that's why I think it's important to just stick as closely to the scripture, just as plainly to read it as, if that's what it's pointing to, then just leave it alone and let it speak for itself like that. And not try to make it say something that's not really sane or make it try to fit your agenda. So that's where I'm at with that. That's why I hold to that doctrine. Yeah, I really like, again, that emphasis that it's just the plain reading of scripture. And I view premillennialism and dispensationalism as the completion of the Reformation. We appreciate Martin Luther. We appreciate John Calvin. They really recovered the doctrines of salvation, soteriology. But Luther and Calvin did not understand the book of Revelation and that was something that other men had to come along and rediscover those doctrines that had been lost and were believed in the early church. The early church was largely premillennial. And so I think, you know, just the common man's understanding of scripture, reading it as it is written, it's important that we not overthink these things. And if you have a different viewpoint, I'm not going to yell at you and think you're not a Christian. I get that. I understand people have different viewpoints and. OK, let's have a good discussion about it, but at the end of the day, let's, you know, hug and say, you know, we love you. We love each other as brothers. Well, I'm glad that the Lord is going to take us out of here before the Great Tribulation, because that's what I believe, that we're going to be gone. He's going to take us home, and we're going to let the world just go down in a heap of flames, as far as I'm concerned, after that. But there are several Scriptures that I was reading just to think about if you want to write them down. It's up to you. 1 Thessalonians 4, 15-17, 1 Corinthians 15, 51 and 52. These are just a couple of them. Matthew 22 is another one. But I think so many of the Scripture verses are so clear on this subject. How do we keep the gender war out of our homes? How do the biblical roles of headship and submission play out in your marriage, if you're married? We don't have a problem. Wow. Well, when I first read this question, I the gender wars in today's society takes on a whole new meaning. Oh, yes. Technically, in our house, mom lives with me. So when we're going through devotions, when we're going through things, if she has questions, she asks me. Which is strange that the son is teaching the mom, but you know, it's how it is. I'm glad I don't have to have kids in schools with this new gender wars and that. If you just take the Bible, if you're living in a Christian home and you take the Bible at its word, with prophecy, with the beginning of time, And you live by that and it gives examples for husbands and wives how to treat each other also in amongst with the gender gender roles that God has set up. In our Sunday school class we were just talking about this this morning with Melanie and Aidan and Joseph about gender roles and we were reading through just the intro to Genesis and you know it was interesting to hear their comments. You know I think all three of them were like well why would I think I'm anything other than what God biologically made me. It was interesting to hear what they would say, but, you know, the only answer I had for them is, you know, that some folks are lost and they just don't understand or they're confused or tempted by the devil or whatever. I don't really understand it or get it, but they don't know who they are. And so just be thankful that you're being taught who you are. And that's biblically speaking. Yeah, it's interesting to see that in our society, not only are people trying to redefine the gender roles, but they're also sometimes playing one against the other. If we're all the same, then why should we be fighting against one another? But there's inconsistency there. I think one of the things that's important for us to remember as men and women is to recognize that our culture has a lot of women who hate men, and there's a lot of men who hate women. and that we need to not be conformed to that. There's been a feminist movement that has produced some animosity towards men, and then men have sometimes returned that animosity with kind of an anti-feminist mindset, and so we've got to be careful who we listen to. Just because somebody's not a feminist doesn't mean you should be listening to them on gender issues. They're not a godly man who knows how to value women and femininity. Be careful that you don't pick up some anti-woman hatred from the anti-feminists out there. And in the same way, women, make sure that you don't pick up, just from the culture around us, a distaste or a dislike for masculinity. There's a certain dislike and distaste for masculinity that you want to keep out of your mind so don't listen to those people. Be aware of how it's coming across through media, music, television, those types of things, and online, social networks, all of that. Don't just be looking for do they believe in biblical roles, but look at do they value the other person, the other gender. One quick comment, I would like to talk to the young people here for just a second, the ones that could be at marrying age, some that are coming up to that. Just remember that if you have parents that are very biblically based and they love the Lord, and mom and dad love each other very much, and the role is like it's biblically standing on, follow that. Because this world is going to the waste, isn't it? And I would like to see all you kids, all you that are growing up and are going to be looking for mates, to make sure that you have your values straight. How do we reach a balance between enjoying the financial and material gifts we've been given and giving to the poor and needy? God has really blessed us. And I don't, as I look out over our congregation, I don't think anybody's really hurting financially. If you are, you need to step up and maybe swallow some pride and ask for help, because that's what the church is supposed to be doing, is to help one another. I think I'm right in that position, that if you are hurting financially, we need to know about it, for one thing. And that's what a giving church does, is that we encourage one another, we support one another, and we love one another. And if God has blessed us in that way, then you in your own heart should know how much you can give to the poor, to the needy, to the ones around us. I've been a Christian for over 20 years. I've always given regularly to the church. If you're curious how much I give, I'll tell you offline, one-on-one, I could tell you what I do. But I always think that giving is important. And I hope that we, as Mike Cherry was saying, that we can use that for folks that are hurting or in need of some help financially. I think that's important that we can offer that. We should do that as a family and help each other out. So yeah, I'll just keep it at that. God loves a cheerful giver. The instruction of scripture is to be ready to give, to be generous. So just look for the opportunities that God wants you to give and be ready to give. It really just comes from the heart. It's not, can I maintain this level or do I need to be more sacrificial? You just need to look and see, well, are there needs around me that I want to meet? And do what you want to do with your money. God doesn't want you to give because you feel like you have to. He wants you to give because you want to, the same way that God gives. He wants to. And so it's not about, well, am I living too well, or do I need to feel guilty about how you're living? No. If God's given you money, wealth, enjoy it. There's no guilt in any of that. You don't owe money to anybody that you don't owe. But if you want to give, you're free to give. And God wants us to be generous, cheerful givers. This next question is two-part. What does scripture say about a professing believer who shows no fruit of the Spirit? Inversely, what can be said regarding one who outwardly rejects Christ, but seems to show kindness, patience, self-control, etc.? Well, I know the first part, what does it say about somebody who doesn't show fruit? Unfortunately, the world seems to know one verse, judge not. If somebody isn't producing fruit They either misunderstand the scripture. They are a very infant believer if they are a believer or they just Need a need need some help on the walk maturing so if somebody's not producing fruit talk to him it it could be that they're self-deceived and Jesus cursed the fig tree because it didn't produce any fruit. It didn't do what it was supposed to be doing. And the second part was... Second part, what can be said or what does scripture say? When you encounter a person who rejects Christ with what they say, I'm an atheist, for example, but they are kind to others around them, they seem to be easy to work with, there's fruits of the Spirit, they're joyful, You don't know their heart, but you're seeing fruit. It's not as much fruit. OK, if somebody is an atheist, they have rejected God. They can be kind. Just Friday, our counselor went around and all the kids had drawn posters about Be Kind and what that looks like. I'm sure not all of them are believers, but they know they need to be kind, they need to not bully, they need to to be nice to one another to get through life. They know that being nice to somebody is nice to do, and that's all they know. So I was told one time even a blind squirrel can find a nut in the forest sometime. They can exercise kindness. My dad, before he became a believer, was kind, was giving, would help people, but was not saved. But he knew how to treat people right. I'm going to move on to, we've been studying Romans 9 recently, so we'll have a few questions about that. Let's talk about how Calvinistic are each of you, in your own views, and the doctrines of TULIP. How important are they? I'll just remind us all, TULIP is an acronym for, stands for Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, which Timothy's been talking about lately, Limited Atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints. I would say I am not a five-point Calvinist. I'm probably a three or four. I completely agree with the T, the total depravity, U, unconditional election, P, perseverance of the saints. The limited atonement and the irresistible grace are just hard for me to wrap my head around, so I'm maybe a three-four-ish. That makes any sense. That's kind of where my viewpoint is on that. I don't like to go around saying, you know, I'm a Calvinist or that, you know, yeah, I think Calvinist has some good ideas. And, you know, some days I read some of the Arminianism stuff, and I'm like, wow, that really challenges you. You've got to really sit and think through that. And it's hard. It's hard to just summarize this doctrine and just wrap it up into a nice little summary and say, this is how the infinite mind of God works. And it's difficult. I guess I'm a four plus because if there's unconditional election, then there would be irresistible grace. If God's called you, he's going to, to give you that grace to come to him. Limited atonement. Yes, it's limited to those who are called. It's limited to those who are elect. But it is unlimited that everybody could have that atonement at any time. Jesus' blood, Jesus' sacrifice was not limited. I have a problem just with the terminology, not the actual idea. Tulip is a flower, right? Okay, yes, I Would probably say that I am a Kind of like what Dave said, three or four. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the limited atonement and irresistible grace. Since we've been doing a lot of the studying, I've been doing some reading through GotQuestions.org and looked at a couple of other websites. Some of these people are way out in the field, out in the left field. And that can be confusing, so we need to be careful, I guess, for one thing, where you read your information. But the perseverance of the saints, I have no problem with. Total depravity, I'm fine with. Unconditional election is, I was talking to my oldest son about this, and he says, well, what about free will? And I think Last Sunday, you just mentioned something about the free will, but you didn't expound on it. I wish you'd done a little bit more on that. So maybe you can go back next Sunday or something like that. Oh, no, not next Sunday. We're going to be gone. OK, so you have to wait. OK. But that's kind of where I stand with it right now. I I really for one thing. I just want to say that I sure appreciate the you know what our many of our The men in the Reformation did and this just kind of follows suit with all of that that it brings more clarity to us But I just got to keep remembering that God is a sovereign God. He's infinite how am I supposed to you know, wrap my head around that. So it's been kind of a little bit difficult for me. This next question pertains specifically to last week's sermon. When posed the question, why is it that the majority of Jews have not believed in Jesus? The beginning of Paul's answer is, the Jews have not received Jesus because they are not elect, because God has not chosen them for salvation. So the question is, are all Jews not elect? I meant the Jews are not elect in a general sense, that the majority of the nation is not elect at this time. But they are still God's chosen nation. And there will come a time when those who are living on the earth as Israel experience a national turning to God and a reception of Jesus Christ as their Messiah. So Jesus is the Messiah of Israel. Most Israelites are not elect at this current time, but they will be. at the end of the Great Tribulation, there'll be a great turning of Israel to God, and that's gonna be exciting to see God's people finally accepting God's Savior as their own Savior. So I just meant it in general terms, that most Jews are not elect at this current time, unless of course, you know, the return of Christ is very close, which it could be. And maybe the Jews that are living in Israel are that generation that is going to be the elect that turn to God at the end of tribulation. Very possible. We don't know who's elect and who's not elect until someone dies and dies without Christ and then it becomes clear. Up until that time for all the living there's hope. Yeah, we can have hope that the Jews living in Israel are the elect generation Well, thank you for that clarification and elders. Thank you so much for doing this for us. I enjoyed it very much Do you have anything else you'd like to say before we move on? Yes. Go ahead. I just wanted to share, when we're at our elder meetings, if you wonder, do you guys argue about stuff? Do you get into heated discussions? Do you get into, you know, you don't talk to each other for a week? It seems to be never like that in the four years I've been in these meetings. Somehow the spirit really speaks through all of us when we're trying to decide things, and that's a really good thing, and we should be very thankful for that, that we don't have a big division in our leadership, so that's good. If you have feedback, or we don't do surveys, but if there's something that bothers you, I don't like this, I don't like that, I don't like that person, I wish you guys would switch the order of this, or whatever, feel free to talk to us about it. I can't speak of the other three, but you won't offend me. You're not going to hurt my feelings. Bothers you, it bothers me. I want to see what we can do to fix it. So anyway, you're always welcome to share your thoughts with us.