You've already heard the world view of ABC News, the ACLU, and the National Education Association. Now, tune in for the other world view. This is Generations with Kevin Swanson. Welcome to the Generations radio broadcast. My name is Kevin Swanson. I'm executive director for Christian Home Educators out here in Colorado, but also a pastor and a father of five. And we talk about the real things of life, relationships, And a biblical worldview on this program, because we're trying to bring back truth and relationships to a lost and lonely world. Well, Dave, last Monday, Dave Buhner also in studio with me here, we had a final hurrah, final time of exhortation for a young man who's going to get married here in just about four to five days. And we had a good time, 30 guys around him, and we were giving him advice about what to expect. And one of the things that came out in this meeting was that women are a little different from men. And somebody pulled out this piece, The Difference Between Men and Women, from Dave Barry. And let me read this to you, because I think this pretty much encapsulates some of the differences between men and women in our marriage relationships. Here we go. This is actually in the context of a man and a woman that are dating each other and preparing for marriage, I guess. Here we go. Dave Barry's piece. Let's say a guy named Roger is attracted to a woman named Elaine. He asks her out to a movie and she accepts. They have a pretty good time. A few nights later he asks her out for dinner and again they enjoy themselves. They continue to see each other regularly and after a while neither one of them is seeing anybody else. And then one evening while they're driving home a thought occurs to Elaine. Without really thinking she says it out loud. Do you realize as of tonight we've been seeing each other now for exactly six months? And then there's silence in the car. See to Elaine it seems like a very loud silence. She thinks to herself. Hmm. I wonder if it bothers him that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by our relationship. Maybe he thinks I'm trying to push him into some kind of obligation that he doesn't want or isn't sure. Now Roger's thinking, wow, six months. But hey, I'm not so sure I want this kind of relationship. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space so I'd have time to think about whether I really want us to keep going the way we are, moving steadily forward. I mean, where are we going? Are we just going to see each other? Are we heading towards marriage here? Towards children? Towards a lifetime together? Am I really ready for that level of commitment? Do I really even know this person? So that means, let's see, six months. February was when we started going out, which is right after I had the car at the dealer's, which means, let me check the odometer. Oh, whoa! I'm way overdue for an oil change here! Oh, he's upset. I can see it on his face. Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong. Maybe he wants more from our relationship, more commitment. Maybe he is, he says, he could be unapologetic and I was feeling some reservations. Yeah, but that's why he's so reluctant to say anything about his own feelings. He's afraid of being rejected. I'm going to have them look at that transmission again. I don't care what those morons say. It's still not shifting right. And they better not try to blame it on the cold weather this time. What cold weather? It's 87 degrees out and this thing is shifting like a garbage truck. And I paid those incompetent thieves 600 bucks. He's angry. And I won't blame him. I'd be angry, too. I feel so guilty putting him through all this, but I can't help the way I feel. I'm just not sure. They'll probably say it's a 90-day warranty. That's exactly what they're going to say, the scumballs. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, waiting for a knight to come riding up on his white horse. When I'm sitting right here next to a perfectly good person, a person I enjoy being with, a person I truly do care about, a person who seems to truly care about me, a person who's in pain because of my self-centered schoolgirl romantic fantasy. Warranty. They want a warranty. I'll give them a warranty. I'll take their warranty and stick it. Roger. What? Please don't torture yourself like this. Maybe I should never have... Oh, I feel so... What? I'm such a fool. I mean, I know there's no knight. I really know that. It's silly. There's no knight. There's no horse. There's no horse? You think I'm a fool, don't you? No. It's just that I need some time. There's a 15 second pause while Roger, thinking as fast as he can, tries to come up with a safe response. Finally, he comes up with one that he thinks might work. Yes. Elaine, deeply moved, touches his hand. Oh, Roger, do you really feel that way? What way? That way about tines. Yes. Elaine turns to face him, gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him to become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it involves a horse. At last, she speaks. Thank you, Roger. Then he takes her home, and she lies on her bed, a conflicted, tortured soul, and weeps until dawn, whereas when Roger gets back to his place, he opens up a bag of Doritos, turns on the TV, and immediately becomes involved in a rerun of a tennis match between two Czechoslovakians he's never heard of. A tiny voice in the far recesses of his mind tells him that something major was just going on back there in the car, but he's pretty sure there's no way he would ever understand what, so he figures it better if he just doesn't think about it. This is also Roger's policy regarding world hunger. The next day, Elaine will call her closest friend, or perhaps two of them, and they will talk about the situation for six straight hours in painstaking detail. They will analyze everything she said, everything he said, going over it time and time again, exploring every word, expression, and gesture of nuances of meaning, considering every possible ramification. They will continue to discuss the subject off and on for weeks, maybe months, never reaching any definite conclusions, but never getting bored with it either. Meanwhile, Roger while playing rocket ball one day with a mutual friend of his and Elaine's, will pause just before serving, frown and say, Norm, did Elaine ever own a horse? All right. Well, is it time for a break, Dave? Yes. What do you mean by that, Dave? Yes. Okay, be back in a moment to talk about communication. Husbands and wives communicating on Generations. This is Kevin Swanson. Be back in a sec. Folks, with this radio program, we're bringing relationships and truth back to a lost and lonely world. That's why we advocate homeschooling, mentorship, family-based economics, and a Biblical worldview, all as part of our homeschool ministry based in Colorado. For homeschooling seminars, curriculum, and encouragement, visit our website at chec.org. That's check.org on the web. For apprenticeship, mentorship, and entrepreneurship training for your children and your family, you need to hook up with our AME program at ameprogram.com. That's ameprogram.com. You know, the Generations Radio program is a ministry of generations with vision, where we work hard to cast a vision for the next generation through each and every radio broadcast. Tune in online at generationsradio.org for the daily show. the blog and the online store. That's generationsradio.org. Welcome back to Generations. And Dave, we've got to appreciate the differences between men and women. You read the Dave Barry piece that we did in the previous segment of the program. And you know, you appreciate it. There's something endearing about the way that women think and the way that men think. And they're very, very different. And God made it that way. And I think what we've got to do is appreciate what God made. That's my first statement here as we talk about communication between men and women. I think what you're saying is vive la difference. You know, men and women are different, and we thank God that they're different. They look different. We thank God they look different. They act different. We thank God they act different. They're given different roles. We thank God they're different. And they think differently, and we thank God for that, too. And we're not going to despise the way they think. Now, the Greek idea of putting the mind ahead of the emotions eventually contributed, I think, to the minimization of women, even among the quote-unquote, civilized city of man. So, you know, you had the Greeks saying, you know, the mind is preeminent, and since the mind is preeminent, and the problem with man is his emotions want to dominate the mind, and the emotions are dull, short-sighted, sort of groveling among inferior things. Therefore, women are to be despised. And that was, I think Dave, a humanistic and a Greek way of looking at women. But as Christians, I don't think we look at women that way at all. We find that with women, there is something very, very valuable in this relationship. For one thing, God made the woman for the man, as a help appropriate for the man, as an axe head for an axe handle. and she thinks differently, she approaches things differently, but the way that we're going to take dominion, the way we're going to develop households and families and raise children and develop relationships in the home will require a woman who sees things differently and certainly has more of an emotional way of looking at things than men do. Well, the aphorism is that if the two of you are exactly the same, one of you is redundant. Yeah. Yeah, good way to put it. So the difference is there intentionally God designed women to complete their husband. So there's some points of contact, but there's definitely some points that are not the same. And the problem with men is not that the emotions dominate the mind. Let's get back to a biblical definition of man's ultimate problem. Man's ultimate problem is that he has sinned and he's depraved. in not just in his emotions, but he's depraved in his mind and his will as well. The Bible says the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. The Bible says that man's mind has been clouded and blinded by the God of this world. And so we have a problem not just with our emotions, but with our mind, our will, and emotions, and these things all need to be sanctified continually by the immersion into the Word of God, into the Psalms, the Law of God, the Gospel of Christ. We need the Word of God, and we live on that Word, and that's how we are sanctified, and our emotions, our mind, and our will are sanctified. On the other hand, Dave, I think we also have a problem when we abandon a biblical social order where a man doesn't lead his wife in love, where a woman doesn't submit to her husband. So, you know, if you have a situation where a woman has dominated her husband, and the husband is not loving his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it, then you're going to have an improper mix of the mind and the emotions in that marriage. So, again, if we sanctify ourselves by the washing of the water by the Word, And if we see the proper biblical social order brought to bear in the household, where a woman submits herself to her husband, and a husband loves his wife as Christ loved the church, then you're going to be able to fulfill the dominion mandate. In other words, there is great value to a woman who thinks and emotes differently than a man does. But only in a biblical order does their contribution become indispensable and essential for dominion. So it's got to happen within a biblical order. That's the point I'd like to make here. I think some would say that the biblical order, this is some and they're wrong here, in the biblical order men are unemotional and that's certainly not what scripture teaches. And women are purely emotional and that's not what scripture teaches either. There's a different emotion, I mean men are warriors, that they have to be able to channel emotion into battling the battles against the world, the flesh, and the devil. Women, yes, they're to honor their husbands, they're to be in submission, but to do so joyfully They're to do so thankfully, and the husband is to love his wife joyfully and thankfully. It is an emotional environment, but the emotions and the roots of those emotions are going to be somewhat different, if for no other reason than because of the physiological differences. And the differences are necessary, Dave, in order to really accomplish what God wants families to accomplish as they take dominion. It is important to have a man and a woman. You find a man losing his wife, for example, and let's say he has a household of five, six children. There is no way that man is going to be able to raise those children as well as he could have with a loving wife who was fulfilling her God-given responsibilities and gifts and talents in that family oikonomia, in that family economic situation. And Captain Obvious says they couldn't have the children without a man and a woman. Oh, there's an obvious point too, but they couldn't raise them very well either. So again, God hardwiring differences into the emotional fabric. and the mental fabric of men and women was intentional and their differences ought to be celebrated and maximized upon which means Dave in our communication with our wives we value them we value their wisdom and I don't care how smart you are you may be the smartest pastor the smartest professor in the world you may you may be a a man who runs his company well you're making six billion a year and your wife is is at home raising kids. It doesn't matter who you are as a husband. You need your wife and you need to rely on your wife and your wife's wisdom in order to accomplish the kinds of things God wants you to accomplish as a household as you take dominion for the glory of God. So again, Dave, I think what we need to do is exhort husbands to listen to their wives. That's, I think, our very first point here as we talk about communication. It's important for us to listen to our wives. They will bring a different perspective to bear, and they will give us an absolutely essential, valuable perspective of things, and we had better listen to them and use their wisdom in an appropriate way as we take dominion. Peter commands us to live in an understanding manner with our wives. Now that we're not going to have complete comprehension. And a lot of people get quite frustrated because men will say you can't understand women. And to a point that's correct. And that's also a gift. We understand that our women are somewhat mysterious to us. It lets us know that there are things in this world that we're not going to understand. that we're not going to know, especially things of the spiritual realm and godly things. So we peer into that even with our relationship with our lives. Certainly our relationship to Christ is somewhat mysterious also. And we're part of the bride of Christ. But just because we don't understand comprehensively doesn't mean we're not commanded to live in an understanding way. That means our ears are bent and we're trying to understand what our wives are thinking what they're feeling and it's going to be completely different because maybe we've been out in the office all day and they've been home with the children we come from different environments and that unity of purpose hasn't had a unity in the experience during that day. We're talking about communicating with our wives today, and communication is essential in the marriage, folks. We are going to wind up taking good dominion and living our lives appropriately in our family life. And Dave, I think it's important also for husbands to remember that in the relationship, in the marriage relationship, they are the spiritual leader. And they ought to be that spiritual leader in the conversation. Now, that doesn't mean that they need to dominate the conversation, but it also means that they shouldn't be sitting around letting their wife say everything, and all they say is, hmm, yes, that's right, you're perfectly right, honey, you're perfectly right. Yes, a good point, honey, yes, and be turning off the conversation. No, they need to be equally engaged in the conversation. I think even more than that, Dave, they need to be leading the conversation. I mean, there may be points in the conversation where the conversation is moving into the wrong areas. where, you know, there's some worry happening. We're talking about problems with the family, problems with the children, problems with the family finances, and the conversation may be heading directly into the area of worry, and that husband may, by good, wise discernment, decide that he needs to steer that conversation into a different direction, maybe towards gratitude. You know, instead of worrying about these things, instead of being anxious for them tomorrow maybe we ought to with everything with prayer and supplication make a request known to God you know he applies that thing because he's the spiritual leader she's not the spiritual leader he is responsible to lead his wife in a spiritual sense and maybe they need to engage in just a little bit more gratitude or maybe the conversation is moving towards gossip he's the one I think more responsible obviously she she's responsible to but he is even more responsible to say, you know, maybe we need to move the conversation over to this area where it would be a little bit more edifying for the people we're talking about and for ourselves as well. And living in an understanding manner comes with the realization that the role of men and women are different. They're going to approach things like economics differently. A man is to take dominion. He's to be a soldier. He's to sacrifice his life. Those are risky behaviors. But women are keepers at home. They want to keep the home. They're more about sustaining and finding security. Men are about taking dominion. Now, that's a basic wiring difference. So women will be more prone towards fretting about the future, where men are more prone about seize in the opportunity. Women will think about that relationship from which they find their security. Men are thinking about taking the next hill. That's a basic wiring difference. No matter how much society tries to erase that, that is the undercurrent of the way that God wired men and women. And men, as living in an understanding way, would be beneficial if we would at least grasp this idea. And Dave, one of the things that I have learned over time, and this is probably one of the most important things I have learned as I have lived with my wife for 18 years, is that I just need to understand that sometimes we need to be talking about things for a period of time and we don't need to cut to the chase right away. We don't need to fix the problem right away. But sometimes it's good just to talk about it from different aspects, from different directions, and allow some space for disagreement as well. There are some husbands I think that feel that if they don't just put their foot down and establish their position and make the decision in 3.7 minutes flat, then they're not leading. And I don't think that's appropriate. I think there's times where you don't need to make a decision right away. You just don't. Maybe you're talking about buying a new house or fixing up the existing house and you don't need to come to conclusions right away you don't you know you can make that decision over the period of six months or what have you and so you know you can sit around and talk about these things and you can allow some room for disagreement of course that involves a great deal of love and patience and long-suffering and also submission on the part of the wife as well she ought to be careful how she disagrees with her husband as well and I think something that's I've learned is that it's not just the direction of the household, which is the leadership mandate, but it's shepherding my wife. In other words, just because the household made the correct decision, if I haven't brought my wife around, if I haven't shepherded her, if I haven't discipled her through that decision, I have failed. Even if I came to the right, say, financial decision, I really need to care for her heart and her emotions and her spirit as we work through that decision. You know, one of the things that young men tell me from time to time as they get into marriage is that they have a hard time sometimes developing conversation topics. They don't always know what to talk about and I think the answer to that ought to be pretty clear. We talk about relationships, talk about the kingdom work that you're doing in your home, talk about the vision that you have for the kingdom of God, talk about your dominion work, talk about theology. These are the most important things. And Dave, you know, I bring my wife into all of my thoughts, pretty much. I mean, you know, if I'm thinking about some theological thing, I want to present something on the air, or for the church, or in my keynote speeches I do across the country, I'm going to test drive them with her first. And it's interesting, a lot of the material that I have, I've developed in conversation with my own wife. So, you know, it's important, I think, to realize that your wife is your fundamental covenantal relationship. And if you're not ministering well with her as a father, you're probably not going to be able to minister well with anybody else, especially if you're a leader in the church or in the business world. And when we talk about relationships in our family, we talk about our children. My wife and I like to talk about the children. I think that's important, especially because the children make up such a very important part of the vision that we have as a family. So it's very important that you talk about the children. Talk about them profitably in an edifying manner. Sometimes I think we get out of balance, Dave, between the negative and the positive. We wind up talking about all these negative things. We're so close to those kids. We know their failings. We know where their character flaws are. And we talk about them, but we're not talking about the positives. We're not talking about what to do about their spiritual condition or their academic troubles. We want to talk solutions, not just problems, but solutions as well. We don't want to just dwell on the problems, but dwell on what God has already done for us. and the direction that God has set for us. So folks, what happens in these conversations, I think, is we're trying to reflect the values of our lives. We reflect the faith of our lives in our conversations. The conversations are vitally important. So what are the conversations that you are engaging in your own family? Do they reflect your faith? Do they reflect the hope that you have in God? Do they reflect the desire and vision that you have for the kingdom of God in your family? Are you planning for the future? Thinking about what God is going to do in the lives of your children Are you excited about the potential of God working in those children and making them into mighty men of God and women of God? Are you talking about this vision? Is this what your family is all about or is life just humdrum and you just sitting around worrying about things and and and and complaining about certain things in your life and The conversation that you engage with your wife is critical. And I want to end on the confession of sin. It's important to confess sin. If your wife has been right about certain things and it turns out you were wrong, I think there are times when husbands need to come to their wives and confess their own ignorance and their own stupidity and their own sinful failings. We need to be able to humble ourselves before our wives and confess those sins. Folks, I'll tell you, that kind of humility will certainly establish a rock-solid relationship, especially if that wife receives that in a loving and a humble way, and a forgiving way. And that relationship is cultivated in lots of love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness and faith. Hopefully you're implementing all of those things in your family's life and the conversations that you have with your spouse. Ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to the Generations radio broadcast. We're talking about the real things of life, the relationships that make for strong marriages and strong families. I hope this has been a valuable conversation for you. You can interact with the program by emailing me at hostakevinswanson.com. And you can hear this program anytime, anywhere in the world at kevinswanson.com. This is Kevin Swanson and I want to invite you back again next time as we cast a vision for the next generation.