Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Jew and Gentile podcast. I am your host, Chris Katulka, and with me is none other than the Jewish sage himself, the one, the only, Mr. Steve Herzig. How are you, sir? I am doing great, Chris. I'm a long way from you. You are a long way from home. You are in a different country, but that's okay because we've got a great show for you lined up. We've got a special guest that I'm going to let Steve introduce in a moment. Hey, just a fresh reminder before we jump in, the Jew and Gentile podcast is sponsored by FOI Equip. It's your opportunity to learn the Bible from a Jewish perspective at foiequip.org. And here we go. Welcome and welcome. And Steve, tell everybody where you are and who you're with and what kind of booth you're in right now. Oh, Chris, this is amazing. I'm with Johannes Vogel and I am in a quiet room. A quiet room. You are in a quiet room. I am in a quiet room yelling my head off. There's people out there and they can't even hear what I'm saying. This is amazing. I doubt that. I need to see it for myself. I cannot believe it. I know when Friends of Israel updated your office, they double or triple stuffed the insulation so that you wouldn't be too loud and interrupt other people. So I've got to see and hear this for myself because you still talk through that extra padding in your office. So I want to see if those people outside really can hear you. I don't believe it yet. All I can tell you is they're still talking as if nothing is happening and I'm yelling my head off and they don't know. Well, now I know what we need to get in our office here, Steve. We need to get that quiet room. Steve, tell us who you're with. I am with Johannes Vogel, and I am at a school that is amazing, Chris. Well, first, Johannes, say hello. Give a German hello to all our listeners. By the way, there's only seven of them, so it doesn't matter. Hallo. Hi, Johannes. So nice to meet you. Yeah, thank you. That's a typical German. Hallo. Not so speedy. Hallo. No. Hallo. Oh, so you slow down the hallo. You slow it down. Okay. Hallo. Steve, tell everybody where you are. You're not just in a quiet room. You and Yohannes are doing ministry together in a very special place. Why don't you tell our listeners about that? We are in a special place, Chris. And you know, we're always mindful. We're in the midst of a war in Israel, constantly praying for them. And I think it's fitting that in the providence of God, Alice and I are here. It's in Alice's home country, her grandfather's side in Germany. I'm telling you, Chris, she wants to move here. She loves this place. But I'm at the Bible Center in Breckerfeld, and I'm going to ask Yohannes to tell us a little bit of history of this Bible Center. By the way, Menno Kalischer has been here several times. Actually, before Yohannes, after his hello, he hasn't said much, but I want to tell you right now, I'm not the wife of, of, uh, of Menno scored a goal in soccer off Johannes. How old were you? Johannes 13 years old. She beat him to the net. Yeah. Is that poor Johannes's introduction? Menno's wife beat him in soccer. Johannes, this is your opportunity to, to redeem that moment. My friend go right ahead. It's so fantastic. It's nice to be on the podcast here with you. The Bible Center was existed in 1956 from my father and my mother and they both have on their burden to make a weekend Bible school and evening Bible school. That was the first starting and they have experience before there was on a Bible school in Switzerland and the head of the Bible school in Switzerland where there was two years. She was a lady and she was together with a Jewish man. He lead this Bible school in Switzerland. And my father and my mother get there the perspective, what the three big lines in the Bible, that means the nations, the church and overall, Israel. And so they got then involved with all this. And our family history, that is, it's so long the story. My grandfather was a brethren. from the strong Brethren Church? Let me interrupt Yohannes here. Some people might be familiar with the Brethren Assemblies out of England. And his grandfather came out of a closed assembly, very pious, very strict. But Yohannes, he left that and became part of what? Yeah, the grandfather left not but he was interesting to have work for his own family and so he started very fluently in the Nazi party. And then he became a member from the SS, and he was then a KZ overseer, but not from a death camp, that was a concentration camp nearby the Netherlands border. And he goes then as a prisoner of war to Russia, And in Russia, he bowed down his knees and said, forgive me, Lord. And he came back. And my father was the youngest member of the SS here in Germany. With five years, he was an SS member. So think about this, Chris. The grandfather is with the SS through a series of circumstances, is miraculously saved. comes home and now his son is part of the SS. And so, Yohannes, what happened to your father? He was a young boy and in a meeting and your grandmother or the the the military man from the Americans said, hey, excuse me, that is a prisoner of war. You cannot grab this young man here. And my mother, my grand grandmother said, hey, excuse me, that's my boy. he must go to the kindergarten and he took him out. And the American soldier looked at the grandmother and she was pulling his ear. And that was a miraculous thing, because what ended up happening to all those prisoners, except for his father, were they all died. They ended up dying. They were prisoners of war and they all all of them died. But because of her chutzpah, she had a chutzpah. Serious chutzpah. And then the providence of God took him out and ultimately he comes to faith, correct? Yeah, absolutely. And then yeah, they are going then to Switzerland to the Bible school there and half of their burden. Go in your hometown and build Bible school there. And yeah, and on the beginning, it was Israel in the center. So our logo from our school is a menorah and the Bible together. Amazing. Isn't that amazing? In Germany, in Germany, a menorah and a Bible together. You know, I'm looking at the historical overview, Johannes, and you were talking about the fact that your parents, Frederick and Christa Vogel, who founded the Bible school that you're at right now, like you said, they were in Switzerland, and then they felt compelled to to begin a Bible school in Germany, and I like this. It said their personal motto is, winning souls for the Lamb until we die. Can you talk about that a little bit, Johannes? My father said all the time, that is my main goal. I will serve the Lord until He comes or He died and He must bring all the souls to the Lamb of the Lord. That means to the Jew Jesus and that is important for him. He always told me and also to my brother and sister, we must bring our life to Jesus and then we dedicated Him our lives and then work for Him the whole time. And then you can see what happened when the Lord come in into a life. and work in the life and that was his goal and my mother's goal until they died. And yeah, the school was then growing and growing. And so we are now here in Breikafeld and we are very thankful what the Lord has done in the last years. Let me just say, me as a Jewish person, I'm sitting here in Germany and you're hearing a German man say that his father said we will work for the Jew Jesus. That's amazing. Chris, that's amazing. There are people in America who still don't know that Jesus is Jewish. It's true. And here in Germany, here in Germany, they honor the Jewish God, man, Jesus. What a blessing it is. You read the Bible. I understand. But it's not a lot of people in America read it. No, it's true. Can they not read the Bible? Of course they could read it, but they don't read it. But we have the same in Germany. We have the same persons in Germany. And the other thing, Chris, if you notice, and is there a way, Johannes, we can make this historical overview available online somewhere? If we copy it, make it available to our people, all seven of our listeners who might want to get it. Yeah, what I'll do is I'll put it on a link and people can access it. Hey, I want to ask a question to Johannes really quick. Johannes, I want to know, you know, the origins of the Bible school in Germany go back to your parents in 1956, that's what it says, which is not long after the end of World War II, not long after the end of the Holocaust. Was there still antisemitism in Germany during that time? Did it linger on, or did it get cut off pretty quick once everything came to light after the war? Was there still antisemitism? And if there was still antisemitism, how were your parents perceived as Bible-believing Christians who loved Jewish people? That's a very good question, because Okay, I was not still alive there, but from the speakings of my parents, they said the aggressivity for anti-Semitism was not so high at the moment after the war, because they know all the bad things what the Germans has done in the Holocaust, in the Shoah, And they speak not open anti-Semitism things, but there was in their heads, absolutely. You see, when they come up with the logo with the menorah, the people said, what is that for? You are together with this Jewish persons, you are in Judah? That's impossible. We come not to your congregations and to your conferences and so they hear that very often. But it was in their mind that They will not disturb or not go against these people. They go their own way, what the Lord gives them on their hearts. And they stay to Israel, what happened and go against them. They say, we go our way, what the Lord has shown us. And yeah, there was some difficult times and it comes more and more over the years. Now it's very open anti-Semitism here. Much more open. In fact, Chris, you need to know that Johannes, he's a young kid. He wasn't around in 1956. I was around in 1956, not in Germany, but I was around. Johannes wasn't born until 1965. So it took him a little while to understand what's happening. And so, but we can say, in fact, Chris, when we get to the next section, the new section, We can tell you, you could tell us what's happening in America during the war and some of our own representatives in Congress are showing their true colors. But here in Germany, there are some people showing their true colors as well. Steve, before we go to Daniel and we talk a bit more, can you tell people why you're in Germany right now? I am in Germany, I was invited by Johannes, Alice and myself to spend a little over a week to come for two conferences and to teach about Jerusalem during their classes. They have Bible classes going on. This year it's a smaller class, they have 30 students. But Chris, you know what? I just sat in a class where two of the graduates of the Bible Center are now missionaries with Wycliffe. And so Alice and I sat in a class. We have it translated. Oh, no, I love the translation. We sit in one row. The translator sits behind us. I feel like a dignitary. They're whispering in our ear as they're speaking in German. They're telling us what they're saying. And so this school has been pumping out graduates And every two years they go to Israel. Chris, next year they're scheduled to go to Israel. Yohannes, you lead that tour, right? Yeah, every two years we go with our third, two and third degree class to Israel, because we said to the students, when you go 10 days to Israel, it's the same as when you go one semester study theology. Isn't that a good line, Chris? It is so true. It is so true. I'd even say a year, Johannes. It's like a year of Bible school in 10 days, you know. The next trip for me, I go on Easter time next year, hopefully. That is then my 60 trips to Israel. 60? 60 times. Johanna, when are they going to make you an honorary citizen of Israel? 60 times you practically live over there. And Chris, this school, when I became director in Canada, we took a trip to Israel. And one of the places where we go on the Canadian tour is down to Timna, which is down South in Israel. And we went to the most amazing tabernacle display, life-size tabernacle in the wilderness. I've been there about four times. A messianic congregation oversees it. They bring somebody who tells us about it. It's there that I get my bag of tricks out. Remember, Chris, we did that on podcast. I bagged tricks out and I tell them about Judaism and what Jewish people believe and all that. But Chris, on the sheet, the historical overview of the Bible Center in Breckerfeld, they built that thing. They built the tabernacle. They built it and it was here. Johannes, tell us briefly, that thing was here and it weighed, did you say 20 tons when they had to move it? 23 tons, yeah. That was for our 30 year anniversary. My brother was in the States and we picked him up, my father and I, and then we flew over Pennsylvania and my brother said, we must make something unique. maybe we can we can build the tabernacle because here in Pennsylvania by the Amish people are there's a model one scale one two three or so yeah in a hall and so let us try to build the tabernacle in original size and you must know the name Vogel means bird and That is a bird, and my father said, okay, my name is bird, but you have a bird in your brain here. I think you cannot build a tabernacle in the original size. And then we pray over that and worked on that. feel okay let us try in 1985 we try then and build one year this tabernacle life-size model with our students and co-workers together and then on 1986 we opened for two months this exhibition by us. And how many people came to see that? 20,000 people comes in two months here by us on the landscape outside. We make no advertisements big. Chris, it's like when you build it, they shall come. I'm getting ideas in my head already, Steve. I'm getting ideas. Yeah, and then we traveled around with this tabernacle in Europe, and then on the end, we said seven times we set it up in different countries, in Netherlands, in Switzerland, and in Germany on two, three spots, and then Nobody was interested. And then we said, okay, it must be back on the roots. That means it must go to Israel. So, and then we bring it to Israel and we found a congregation there and also a man, he was very interested from the Jewish side. So this is a guy who was not interested in Jesus, but he was interested in the tabernacle. Tell him what happened. And then this guy phoned me up and said, Hey, can we rent the tabernacle? And I said, Yes, I want to have it for one week for us in the National Park in Timna Park. And I said, Hey, for one week, we must have three weeks to set it up. 23 tons in two overseas containers. Yeah, I have not the money. The Jewish guy said, I have not the money, but I have the place. Okay. I said, okay, phone me up when you have the money. Okay. Next week, our man here on the reception said, oh, there is the person from Israel, he will rent the tabernacle." And I said, yeah, okay, I spoke last week. And then this man said to me, my name is, I have heard you have the tabernacle for renting. And I said, yeah, we spoke last week. And he said, no, I'm phone at first time. And I said, what is your name? And he said, Herbie Gere is my name. I'm from the congregation in Eilat. And we have no place to build up the tabernacle, but we have the money. And I said to him, OK, I have the place in Eilat, nearby Eilat. And then 10 days after this speaking, they sit both together, Herbie Gier and Michael LaVie, Lefkoe, sit together here in Breckerfeld by us on the table and we sign a contract. And then in 1999, it goes to Israel. Is that an amazing story? An amazing story. I mean, you don't think about how hard it is. Yeah, you're moving the tabernacle from Germany to Israel. I don't think they... It was a lot harder for the Germans than for the Jews. I was gonna say, was that prophesied in the Bible somewhere that a tabernacle would be built in Germany and moved to Israel? I mean, and it's life-size. You can go, a lot of people who do tours in Israel will go visit this life-size tabernacle. I see videos that are done with it, Johannes, and they're all on YouTube. It's amazing. One of our co-workers, Chris, you know, John Plants, he was the one that has helped design the Canadian trip. And I texted him when I got here. I did not know that it was from the Bible Center. So I told John Plants about it and he was pretty excited. So that's pretty exciting. Chris, I want to have for a second, if you give me a moment, I want to have Johannes' wife come. Okay, I'm gonna open the quiet room. So well, it was funny because you were looking I could see you if you're if on YouTube if you're watching Steve was poking like watching out the quiet room and I thought I bet he is so loud that he's breaking the quiet rule the room the whole system. So This is the brains of operation right here. You are watching her. This is Talk to us. Tell us tell it pronounce your name because I'll pronounce it wrong. My name is Gisela. Gisela. Gisela Vogel. Hi, Gisela. I'm Chris Katulka. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. So tell us a little bit about your marriage to this guy. Oh, no. How many years we are together? I think now 38. 38. Look, and she doesn't look a day over 20. Not one bit. It's amazing. Zyga Zun. Live and be well. That's right. She, in fact, Chris, let me tell you something. Yesterday we're driving and you know where you're on the Autobahn. Oh, the Autobahn going two hundred and twenty kilometers an hour. I think it was even a little faster. Anyway, well, Johannes is going to me, but he got lasered. He got lasered. What does that even mean? Lasered means on the Autobahn, you could go on certain parts as fast as you want. On other parts, it tells you how fast you can go, like we have in the States. But we were in a work zone and he was going 15 miles an hour over, or 15 kilometers over the allowed amount. and I didn't even know it, his whole face changed. Look at it, it's changing now, right before our eyes. The German comes out and he got lasered and I don't know how much it's going to cost me. Our weather here in Germany is very nice at the moment. My trip is only Monday. I got to be here till I don't know when because our trip to Israel got canceled. Now, Chris, I'm in big trouble. But tell us about your role in the school. Oh, that's good. For me, is it important when I spoke over my person over the years at first, I'm a role model for my family, too. As a mother, you have four children and you wanted to raise them in Christ. It is the first that the children thinking that they know Jesus at first. That's my first goal. You're getting it right here, Chris, right out of the Germans mouth. Listen to that. It's their priority. Yes. That's good. And the second is in the school, it's can I say passion? Yes, it is a passion for me to bring the students and the girls and young women to to make a household with all the things. It must sometimes a lot of things must be together, come together. that you are a right woman for the Lord. And that the ministry for my husband can go on. You support him as he does the ministry too, right? She's my backbone. Yeah. The young people, students must know that it's so important that My issue is the household in order. The household to bring and give me the freedom to go out for the service of the law. Chris, when we were driving home, you know the way it is when we do the podcast, how we don't know what we're doing until about five minutes before we do it? Yep. Well, driving home, Giselle said to Alice and myself, and she waited until it was, we were almost home, it's 9.30 at night, it's all day we were, and she said, oh, I was just thinking, maybe on Thursday night, you and Alice could talk to our students and tell them about your ministry as far as how you worked it out while you were married. And talk about, because here in the school, just like in America, Some of them only want to work by the hour. Oh, it's two o'clock, it's time to break. Oh, it's 4.30, I got to go home. Well, Giza knows that the Lord's work isn't set at a nine to five kind of thing. And Chris, you know that with you and Karen as well. A hundred percent. All day long, you know, ministry doesn't stop. Sometimes it's 9 p.m., sometimes it's 12 a.m., sometimes it's 7 in the morning, and you know what's interesting, too, when we talk, I love that you're talking about this because I always feel as though my ministry with my family overlaps with the ministry that I have with Friends of Israel, and maybe you felt the same way at the college, where They live in the school, Chris. The door to the entryway is 20 feet from the door to their house. We are living together here in the Bible Center like a kibbutz. My father said when he founded the school, he said, okay, we must live like a kibbutz. We have all the same, we have a pocket salary, not more. And we will show our students it belongs not for the work of the Lord to know how many I can raise money or so whatever. No, give your life to Jesus and Jesus will provide what you need. the 11 cars, they go, whatever they have to do, they, the staff, many of the staff and teachers actually live here. Some of them live with the, if they're a guy they live with the male students in the same place, and if they're a lady they live on that side. And they all are smiling. Germans are smiling here. That's amazing. Hey, Johannes, I get pocket money too, but I have a hole in my pocket. So that money just goes right out. I don't know what happens to it. I have the same pocket. It's just, it drops right out. I don't know where it goes. It disappears, but God always puts more back in there, but then it falls back out again. So. Well, I have to ask Giselle. I was in here, you were out there. Did you hear me? Well, I was. See, I knew it. I knew it. The silent room cannot contain Steve Herzig. The quiet room is not quiet. Somebody call the manufacturer and let them know that there's got to be a Steve Herzig decibel test or something like that. That's the way you'll really find out. Steve is a test person. That is fantastic. Well, Steve, I think it's a good time for us to turn to Daniel Chapter 4, if you don't mind. I think so. You could stay or you could go. If she's leaving, I don't blame her at all. Yeah, that's right. She wants to test to see if she can hear the whole thing outside, outside the quiet room. That's right. Hey, you know, before we get to this, as everyone's turning to Daniel 4, Steve, I want you to tell the audience, our listeners, our seven people, what does it mean to you as a Jewish believer to be in Germany, knowing what happened to your extended family? knowing, you know, fortunately your mother and your father made it over to the United States, but that wasn't the same for the rest of your family. What does it mean for you being in Germany, the hub of the Holocaust, to be sitting next to a brother in the Lord now, some 80 years later? What does that mean to you? Could you talk about that? Pastor, you know, Chris, as we were in the conference yesterday, the topic, it's amazing that Yohannes and his staff thought of the topic of lethargy, being lethargic, Israel being lethargic, and they were taking it from the book of Joshua. And when I got the assignment, obviously it was way before the war. took place, and of course, the lethargy in Joshua was to take the land, taking the land. And when in the Book of Ezra, it was building back the temple. And so our people... demonstrate continually a lack of faith. They're chosen of God, they're the apple of his eye, they're special people, but they always struggle with being not in the world, but being of the world, part of the system. Well, for me, transformation is the key. When I came here the first time, I was amazed. I walk into this building, there's a Star of David and etched into the door to enter a Star of David. I met his mother, she was alive in 2012 when I was here and got a feel for their passion, their heart for the Lord. And you've already gotten a feel for Yohannes and Giselle here. uh... in germany but for me my father uh... went to normandy he was two weeks plus so he came two weeks after the original invasion and uh... i was with my son is in the air force and we went from uh... normandy uh... and went east uh... and uh... you know, we're able to see what he did. Well, that's, that's the physical side. That's the, you know, Germany, I knew what the Nazis did. It wasn't the German people. It was the Nazis who did that. Uh, I understood that. Uh, but there is something about the transforming work of God as he could take a country that birthed Adolf Hitler. Hmm. and still provide people who are birthed by the Savior. And so for me as a Jewish person, I've been transformed. I'm as guilty as anybody. It doesn't matter Jew or Gentile. I'm guilty. I'm a sinner. There's no hope for me. The Bible is filled with my people who like, when Johannes spoke yesterday, the best slide was a cucumber. And he had at the bottom in numbers about how we, the Jewish people, we wanted the melons and the cucumbers and the garlic. We wanted to go back to Egypt. How could we? think that way, but that's fleshly thinking. So to answer your question, that's a long way of answering it. Johannes is transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit. His father is able by God's grace to build this school. He is building on the foundation of his father, inviting a person like Menno Kalischer to come and speak, me to come and speak and share with the students. And it's just a testimony to Jesus Christ. When God planted the temple, He wanted His holy name there. Chris, you and I know that whenever a believer, whenever a person comes to Christ, His name, we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. And so He and I are brothers in Christ. We've served together. This is our second time. It's a joy for me, a blessing for me to be with Him and the students. And it's a real honor. So it's the same for us that Steve is here because when you bless the Jewish people, you will be blessed. And I see that is a fulfillment from what in the Bible stand in the Old Testament. And we are thankful for so fantastic context to brothers and sisters in the Lord, but also But Jewish people, their belief in Jesus Christ, that's fantastic. That's a real honor for us to have these people here by us. You know, I say the same thing all the time, Johannes. That's why I hang out with Steve all the time. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. I just want to walk. I want to be a walking blessing and I want to be blessed. So I try to stick around and stick as close as I can. So far it hasn't happened yet. You're testing that promise. There's still a hole in my pocket, you know? No, I'm joking, I'm joking. All right, hey listen, Daniel chapter 4. I want to read this before we get started. This is kind of helping develop what's going on in Daniel chapter 4. It says, apparently a number of years transpired between the experience of Daniel's three friends in chapter 3 and Nebuchadnezzar's dream and period of insanity in chapter 4. Nebuchadnezzar reigned for 43 years, between 605 and 562 BC. His insanity lasted seven years, and he returned to the throne for a short time afterward before he died. His last years did not take place until he had the time to conclude his extensive building operations, which we can read about in Daniel 4, verse 30. Thus, this incident may have taken place around his 35th year of Nebuchadnezzar's rule, or about 570 BC. This would be some 30 years after the experience of the three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace, about the 50th year of Daniel's life. And so let me go ahead and start reading in Daniel chapter 4, starting in verse 1, where it says, King Nebuchadnezzar, to the nations and peoples of every language who live in all the earth, May you prosper. It is my pleasure to tell you about the miraculous signs and wonders that the Most High God has performed for me. How great are His signs! How mighty are His wonders! His kingdom is an eternal kingdom. His dominion endures from generation to generation. I, Nebuchadnezzar, was at home in my palace, contended and prosperous. I had a dream that made me afraid. I was lying in my bed. The images and visions that passed through my mind terrified me, so I commanded that all the wise men of Babylon be brought before me to interpret the dream for me. When the magicians and enchanters and astrologers and diviners came, I told them the dream, but they could not interpret it for me. Finally, Daniel came into my presence and I told him the dream. He is called Belshazzar, after the name of my God and the spirit of the holy gods is in him." Can I just say this really quick, Steve, as we're reading? You know, I can only imagine, number one, I'm sure the astrologers, magicians, and all them are thinking, hey, what in the world is Nebuchadnezzar eating? He's got to stop! having these dreams at night that someone cut the spicy food out. Um, that's one. How many times? And then it seems to be the same thing. You could just see the alarm, you know, going back to Daniel chapter one, Daniel chapter two. you know, he's getting these dreams, and then all of a sudden these interpreters, enchanters, astrologers, these diviners, you know, they get a phone call, and you could just see the phone call at night coming from Nebuchadnezzar, and you're going, hey, please don't let this be another dream. Hey, Chris, it's probably like Laura, our assistant, and the assistant that helps her, Faith, when you and I come up with another idea of ministry, They probably say enough already with these ideas. You're killing us here. Yeah. This is what they say. They go like this. They say, they just say all the time. Well, here's the thing is that Nebuchadnezzar of course has another dream. And he said, I said, Belshazzar, the chief of the magicians, I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in you and no mystery is too difficult for you. So this is interesting. You know what I find fascinating is if you read more liberal commentators on the book of Daniel, they'll say that, you know, these were stories and accounts not even accounts, maybe that they were made up or whatever. And if you notice, there's this dream pattern that goes on where Nebuchadnezzar has a dream and then Daniel is called on all the astrologers and magicians. There's a repetitive nature to them. And so, you know, more liberal commentators will say, oh, well, these stories of Daniel were living out in the world and it took somebody to compile them together. Well, here's what I think is interesting, is that it says in the text that Daniel already has a reputation now. So if you go back to Daniel chapter 2, Daniel doesn't have the reputation for interpreting dreams, so when he does, what happens? Nebuchadnezzar basically considers Daniel's God the most high God. But now when you get to Daniel chapter 4, Daniel's already got the reputation. He has a reputation for being somebody who interprets dreams, and so he says, here is my dream. Belshazzar, chief magician, so he's worked his way up that ladder because of the way God's blessed him and interpreted that dream, and he says, I know the spirit of the holy gods is in you, Nebuchadnezzar saying to Daniel, and no mystery is too difficult for you. Here is my dream. Interpret it for me. These are the visions I saw while lying in bed. I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. The tree grew large and strong, and its top touched the sky. It was visible to the ends of its earth. Its leaves were beautiful, its fruit abundant, and on it was food for all. Under it the wild animals found shelter, and the birds lived in its branches. From it every creature was fed." Steve, I don't know, or Johannes, if you want to comment on this dream. that Nebuchadnezzar has. Well, Chris, I want to go back to chapter 1 and verse 2 before he even gets involved in the dream. These are on the lips of a Goyeshug ruler. This is a king of a Gentile nation, and how does he describe God? The Most High God, appropriately named as Rennie Showers wrote his commentary, and we titled that The Most High God, published through Friends of Israel. And what does he say? El Elyon, right? That's what it is in Hebrew. El Elyon, Most High God. How great are his signs, how mighty his wonders, his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation. I realize that Nebuchadnezzar was a slow learner, and we're going to hear about that as we discuss chapter four. But Chris, he's on the right road, isn't he? Yes. He is. But that's also because, remember, he already had that experience with Daniel and the fact that he was able to interpret his dream, and he gave credit to God, so he understood God within. Now, this doesn't mean, Steve, we should clarify this, this doesn't mean that Nebuchadnezzar became a monotheist, that he dropped all the other gods of the pantheon of the Babylonians. No, he still worshipped them. He had them in his bag of tricks, I'll tell you that. No secret is too heavy for him. That's unbelievable that this not Jewish people said this over the Lord of Lords. It's amazing. Unbelievable. That's coming from a German there, Chris. It's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. It is unbelievable. And the dream itself, it's not going to be good news for Nebuchadnezzar, is it? No. But it starts off, the dream is a tree, and the tree touches the heavens, and it's flourishing. That's the point. There's a flourishing in the tree. And in fact, the creation of God finds refuge in this tree. It finds refuge. It says here that its leaves were beautiful, its fruit was abundant, and on it was a food for all. Under the wild animals found shelter, the birds lived in its branches, from every creature was feds. But the point that we're seeing is that God in this vision is showing something to Nebuchadnezzar, and it's a vision of his kingdom. It's a vision of Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom. That's what the tree is. The tree, number one, if you heard it earlier, its height was enormous, which means you couldn't You saw it wherever you went. That was the point. I looked, and there before me was a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. The tree grew large and strong, and its top touched the sky. So that means that wherever you're standing in God's green earth, you knew about this tree because it was staring at you all the time. Babylon was number one at this time. Babylon was number one. The Babylonian Empire was huge, and the point also is that it was a good thing. Notice, a tree is a good thing. It's not a picture of something negative. The tree is something beautiful. It provides, it gives, it gives shelter, it gives fruit, it gives food, it gives all of it, and it even admits people are resting under the refuge of this huge empire. And so that was something that was a positive. But then it goes on and says, in the vision I saw while I was lying in bed, I looked, and there before me was a Holy One, a messenger coming down from heaven. He called in a loud voice, Cut down the tree, trim off its branches, strip off its leaves, and scatter its fruit. Let the animals flee from under it and the birds from its branches, but let the stump and its roots, bound with iron and bronze, remain in the ground in the grass of the field." Steve, so something negative happens here to this tree. Big time. This holy one, notice where the change comes from. It's not somebody on the earth that's coming here. It's somebody from the heavens who is coming down. This means, first of all, that Babylon ultimately, that Nebuchadnezzar is not the big maher. There's a bigger Macher than him, and that's a very important point, that the biggest Macher, God himself, has to make a point in Nebuchadnezzar's life. And the news is not good news, Chris, not good news at all. No, in fact, the point is that the kingdom, it's a bigger picture. It's not just a picture of Nebuchadnezzar losing his rule, it's the picture of the entire kingdom crumbling, not because of its own initiative. what becomes so important whenever you study the Bible. It's not because of its own issues internally that will make it crumble. Now, that could be part of the way that God works, but it's because God is the one who's going to make it fall. It was never intended to be the eternal kingdom, even though it starts off with a great expectation of who Nebuchadnezzar is in his kingdom, it reaches from here to there, it's amazing, but the point is that Nebuchadnezzar and his kingdom will be humbled. Exactly. And Chris, we're going to have to take this until next week, I think, because our time is running out. But let's just I think that verse 13 is appropriate to stop. Why don't you read that again and Chris tie it in to what is happening now. As we view Israel, we're watching what's happening in Israel and with Hamas, Hezbollah, all these other nations. Who is it that's in control? Is it the United States? Is it Russia? Who is overseeing all this, Chris? Yeah, it says, in the vision I saw while lying in bed, I looked and there before me was a holy one, a messenger coming down from heaven, and he called in a loud voice, cut down the tree, trim off its branches, strip the leaves, scatter the fruit, let the animals flee from under it, the birds in its branches. You know what, Steve? Later on in the book of Daniel, The Book of Daniel actually highlights the fact...it goes forward in time to a ruler named Antiochus Epiphanes, and Antiochus Epiphanes was the one who would desecrate the temple in 167 BC and really kind of try to scatter the Jews and assimilate them and prohibit them from worshiping, prohibit them from the law, prohibit them from being Jewish, from even reading the Torah. And it's funny, this all came because he went down to Egypt to try to destroy Egypt and to gobble up that land. And do you remember what showed up on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean Sea? It says the ships of Ketim showed up and made him move back up to Jerusalem. Well, the ships of Ketim are the Roman ships. I think it's so interesting, Steve, that ships have been coming for so long into the eastern Mediterranean area. We hear about the Romans coming in the Book of Daniel, that they came and they moved and they were trying to influence the politics of that time. Well, Steve, we now have, I think, two aircraft carriers that are off the shores of the Mediterranean Sea, not from Rome, but from the United States, again trying to influence the movements of what's going on Again, I'm not trying to tie this into a biblical, this is no biblical prophecy, but it's the idea of this. It's not the United States in control. Just as Rome was never in control, and all throughout history, there have been ships that have been moving in and out of that area to try to influence the politics, influence the leaders of that place. It's been like this forever. There's been tension all along, and yet who is the one who's in control, who can raise a tree up and then cut it down at its roots? It's God. And that's what we're seeing here. You know, Chris, let me just say that I have the New King James translation, and for our purposes of discussion, I like the way it's translated. Listen to what it says. I saw in the visions of my head while on my bed there was a watcher. Isn't that good, Chris? A watcher. A watcher. One who is overseeing, one who's looking, one who's observing. And they identify the watcher as the Holy One, and he's coming down from heaven. Chris, no matter what Gentile nation is coming to the shores of the Mediterranean, and you very ably described historically, up till now, what's happening, right now, Chris, The Watcher is watching, isn't He? The Sovereign One, the Most High God is watching. And He was watching during the time of Daniel. with Nebuchadnezzar and ultimately worked with him as an individual. And that's what's going to happen towards the end of chapter four. But he's working with the nation of Israel during Daniel's day as they're in captivity. And he is working with the modern state of Israel that all physically, and all kinds of terrible things have happened, He's working with them spiritually as well. This is a time period, Chris, for all the world. People are beginning to question, who is God? What's He doing? How do I fit in? And Chris, God has the answers. The Watcher has the answer through the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Watcher, the Holy Watcher, Watcher in Hebrew, here this name is Notzrim. Notzrim is a name from the Nazarene, from Jesus. That is unbelievable that you see Jesus here in this text, unbelievable, and the Christian in... That is so fantastic that you see what the Old Testament and the New Testament combined and give us a message for the Lord of Lords and He provide. And when we speak here now together, I had the podcast together in this moment, rockets fly over Israel. And it is so sad to see what happened at the moment, but we know The Watcher is there. Jesus is there. The Lord of the Lord is in protection. And He holds all. And we can pray for Israel. We can pray that he provides in the best way because he knows what the best is for us and for everybody. That's the good word out of Germany, Chris. I'll tell you that. I think that's a great way to end it. But you know what I'm going to do before we go to the news? I'd like to pray. Just as Johannes said, we should be praying. And let's you pray first, but then let's get a short German prayer as well. So I'll pray and then a German prayer for Israel, and then we'll look at the news really quick. Everyone, let's bow our heads in prayer to the Lord. And Lord, we just pray that you would continue to watch Lord over Israel, as Johannes was telling us, as Steve was telling us, as we looked at Daniel chapter 4, the Watcher. You are the Watcher. Father, continue to protect Israel and the Jewish people, Lord. I pray that we would have an influence in a positive way for the good news of Yeshua Jesus, the Messiah in Israel, as this difficulty is taking place, this war is taking place. But Lord, we know that you neither slumber nor sleep when it comes to protecting Israel and the Jewish people. So Father, we want to give you praise, and we trust in you, Lord, the Watcher of Israel, and also the Watcher of the Church. And we love you, Lord, and we ask these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Father in heaven, we thank you that you are in the regiment. And we thank you that you carry and hold your people and the people of Israel. And Lord, let so many of your people come to the realization of the truth that you are the true Yeshua HaMashiach. We thank you for this and give you all the honor and pray for this in the name of our Lord Jesus. Amen. Oh, man, amen. Isn't that a good one? Amen. Hey, Steve, let's talk about the news. I'd be interested in your opinion on this. Joe Biden, President Biden, I should say, was on 60 Minutes and he ultimately was urging Israel not to reoccupy Gaza. and he was also hesitant to connect Iran with funding or Iran with the events that were taking place from Hamas in Gaza. Steve, do you want to speak to that for a moment? I don't mind doing that, Chris. And I'll start off by saying we're not, Friends of Israel is not a political organization. We are people who look at the Bible. On the other hand, we have our personal opinions and this is mine. The Hamas admitted its connection with Iran. Iran has admitted its connection with Hamas. Our own Secretary of State, a Jewish man in the United States, said there is no connection with this particular event. But he acknowledged that there has been a long history of them working together. Look, Chris, they're tied together. And Hamas was the duly elected group that the Palestinians wanted in Gaza to represent themselves. I think that many of them regret that. There, although President Biden doesn't think that staying there is wise. In 2005, Ariel Sharon dragged out using the Israeli IDF to get Israelis out there who were living there in settlements and turned it over carte blanche to them. And it has now become a place that is so dangerous to every Israeli now in the country. I think what Benjamin Netanyahu is doing is the right thing. He's called his government, including the side that was against him, and it's a unity government. This is a joint decision on the part of Israel as a nation, unprecedented warning. The area to get down south because they're coming, the Hamas gave no indication that they were coming into Sderot and 22 other communities as they shot up indiscriminately men, women, and children. I think what Israel is doing is within their right and we defend, I defend their actions as, and by the way, so does the Geneva Convention for War. Every lawyer that has looked at that document and looked at how Israel has conducted this war would say it is, they are following it according to the laws written. War is horrible. We don't like war. Israel didn't ask for its war, but I think if you ask them, they would say, we didn't ask for it. We don't want another one. And so they're going to go in and try to attempt to make sure that doesn't happen. You know, Steve, I was thinking, too, because more and more voices, of course, are coming out now that were a week or so removed from the original event on October 7th. And more and more voices are coming out and saying, oh, Israel, take it easy. Take it easy. You know, there's innocent Palestinians in Gaza. And I agree. And it's heartbreaking to think about those innocent Palestinians. But I also go back to another thing. The Palestinians elected Hamas. in Gaza. And I think sometimes people don't realize that Hamas is not just the terrorist organization that's sending rockets into Israel, it's the government in Gaza. It's the same people that should be fixing the roads in Gaza. It's the same people that should be building schools in Gaza. It's the same people that should be building a structure for an economy in Gaza so that people can work and make a living. They're not separated. It's not like Lebanon. Lebanon is different. There's a Lebanese government, and then Hezbollah is like a mafia that controls the Lebanese government. Hamas is the government, and at the same time, they are a terrorist organization. So you can't separate these things. They were elected by the Palestinians, and for too long, Steve, I just keep looking at it. The world, it's the world, the world has let this fester to a point that it turned into an atrocity, a human rights atrocity, that has led to this place where more than 1,300 innocent Jewish people have been killed. And more will be killed. They're going to be going into a combat on the ground in Gaza soon. But Steve, when I look at this, what I see is the fact that I think the world has let this fester to a point because they never let Israel take care of Hamas once and for all. And that's it. 100 percent. Chris, do you know that the elderly woman who they took as hostage and she had her two fingers up like a peace sign? Do you know what Hamas did with her? They made a pizza commercial and put a pizza background to her V thing that she's in a wheelchair. Have you seen that? I did see they made her hold up a peace sign or something like that. Yes, exactly. And if you want to see a contrast, a contrast between the two governments, if you will. You're right about Hamas. They are. of the governing party in Gaza. Israel is doing, even now, after the butchery, the savagery in which its citizens were treated, they are giving them over 48 hours to move down South. They are telling them that they're coming. They're warning them ahead of time. And what is Hamas doing? Hamas is stopping them. Hamas is shooting its own people if they dare to try to go into Egypt. They are running tactics of putting people in their military storehouses for weapons. It's a complete contrast. Chris, this needs cleansing. This is a biblical proportions. God has demonstrated when the sin goes up like a stench, that God had to cleanse the area. And I honestly believe that with the proper warnings, humanitarian warnings that they're giving to the citizens of Gaza, that that place needs cleansing. It does. It does, and this is what's hard for people to understand, is that it's not going to be a pretty picture. I always think about the fact that no one criticized America, Steve, for going and taking care of ISIS once and for all. I know that was something that the Trump administration did. It was something that they saw as ISIS was growing at the end of the Obama administration, the Trump administration went in and took decisive action to root out ISIS once and for all. And I'm sure that wasn't through negotiations. It was through an actual force that the United States brought. Well, ISIS, we're hearing this more and more, ISIS is, or Hamas is ISIS. And so this cannot be something that Israel gets to dance around. They have to be decisive about how they take care of this issue once and for all. But Steve, I want to talk about this, is that anti-Semitism is not just what we're actually seeing from this war, is that anti-Semitism is rearing its ugly head more than ever now as a result of what happened back on October 7th, as we're seeing people supporting Hamas. They're supporting Hamas globally. And we're seeing this not just in the United States, we're seeing it in Canada, but even recently there have been reports in Germany of houses, Jewish houses, being marked as if it were the Holocaust all over again. That's exactly. In fact, Johannes and I were talking about that. I talked to him. He was fully aware of the marking out in Berlin of putting Stars of David on the house. But Johannes, you were sharing with me right here in Brackfell. Why don't you tell them? Yeah. Nearby a city here in Annapurna, They bring out the flag from Israel for the house of the mayor here in Enepetal and they flag the Israel flag and in the night they come and rip the flag. So they supported, the mayor was supporting Israel by putting out the flag. And each, this went on two different nights. Somebody came during the night and ripped the flag down. Then there was a soccer team. The main soccer team here from Germany, Bayern Munich. Which by the way, beat the United States. Not surprised. Not surprised. Not surprised. In Bayern Munich, they... bought in a goalkeeper from Israel, Daniel Peretz, before two months, and they bought also a young man from Palestine, and this man bring out yesterday all the people there against Allah, they must cut out and uh did you get did you understand that chris yes what he what he's saying is two guys on a soccer team a jewish guy and a palestinian and the palestinian wants all the jews dead yeah they're they're just saying it out loud they're they're not even being quiet about it they're just being uh very out loud about it steve even here where we live we're not far from the very big jewish community of Cherry Hill, New Jersey. Cherry Hill East has a lot of Jewish students, and they had to close the school down, I believe, last Friday. And news reports were coming out that Israel-Hamas war, parents speak out after alleged discriminatory fight at high school in Cherry Hill. Tensions rise as high school in South Jersey after a fight broke out during lunchtime following the news of the Israel-Hamas war. Videos have been circulated on social media of a brawl between students in Cherry Hill East. cafeteria, and so there's tension there. You know, there are Jewish families that do not feel comfortable sending their kids to school. I've even spoke with a dear friend of ours, who will remain nameless, that helps us here. They're from Israel, and they do business here in the United States. They live in Cherry Hill, and they won't even, as Israelis, they're Israeli-Americans, they won't even put the Israeli flag out to hang it in support of their own country out of fear, Steve, out of fear. that something will happen. You know, I just think it's such an interesting dichotomy between just, you know, back in February of 2022, the Ukraine and Russia went to war, and America and much of the Western society were behind Ukraine and Ukrainian People who never even thought twice about Ukraine were flying Ukrainian flags. And now, all of a sudden, there's another war. Again, it's a war between truth and evil, just as it was a war between truth and evil with Ukraine and Russia. It's the same thing. It is the same exact thing, but yet people are less likely to support Israel, which is very, very sad. That speaks to something about, I would say, anti-Semitism as well. Chris, you know, it brings to mind, do you remember interviewing a Palestinian for our quick course? Do you remember that? Bassem Eid. Bassem Eid. I think it's great, Chris. Tell people how that is almost prophetic as I remember him speaking. Here's a Palestinian who loves Israel. Why don't you tell our listeners how they could access that video that we did? Yes, they can go to our FOI Equip YouTube page. I'll put the link in our show notes, and you can watch Bassem Eid on a guest lecture talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and this was even last summer. But the things that he talks about are very relevant for today, and he's a Palestinian who's learned to appreciate Israel and actually, I would say, is an outcast in his own society because of his appreciation for the Jewish state and the democracy in the Jewish state. So I'll be sure to post those in the show note. He's been interviewed lately during this war and is an unabashed supporter of Israel and the Jewish people. It's a real blessing to hear. We have on yesterday on our conference, we print a special card with a flag from Israel. And then we start the conference and said, who will stand with Israel, stand now up, hold this card with this. with this flag from Israel, and then we sing all together the national anthem from Israel. I sent that to you, Chris. I thought I sent it to you. You did. That's amazing. That is absolutely amazing. You know, Chris, as sad as it is, I'm energized. I'm ready to go. I got Yohannes here and you there. We're ready to go. What do we have to do? Tell our people, what can we do to support Israel? Well, the thing that you can do is go to foirelief.org and there you can give to help build bomb shelters in Israel. You can support Magan Davidadom. Magan Davidadom is Israel's Red Cross. helping for medical emergencies during this time. And we also, not only in supplying with Magan Davida Dome and Operation Life Shield, building bomb shelters in Israel, but we also do a pro-life, support a pro-life organization, supporting women during this time who might consider giving up their child, and so we support a pro-life organization and others as well in Israel. You can go to foirelief.org and there you can find out ways to give. Steve, we've only got a few moments left, so I think we need to do our Yiddish word of the day, and so I'm going to let you take it because you chose it. So, Steve, Yiddish word of the day. The Yiddish word for the day is semi-German, maybe 100% German, but Alice and I are here, we're hearing all this German talk, and versteh? What? What? I don't understand. Versteh is the Yiddish word. Tell us what that means, Yohannes. Understanding. You understand what I say? Versteh me. Versteh me. Versteh? My father used to say that all the time in Yiddish. Don't you understand? And I would say, no, I don't understand. That's awesome. Versteh. That's how you say it. Versteh. Per se. Per se. Spell it out for us in German. Per se. What? Spell it. Letters. P-E-R-S-T-E. Per se. There you go. Per se. Per se. There you go. Well, I just want to say, Steve, you are also saying that they understand it when you say, sei gesund. Live and be well. They do understand. Sei gesund. Sei gesund. They're using it all the time now. That's fantastic. Hey everybody, thank you so much for being a part of the Jew and Gentile podcast. I am so thankful that we could have Johannes Vogel on with us. Johannes, thank you for being with us. We really appreciate it. All right. Thank you. Well, Steve is going to stay in Germany. Steve, do we have one more podcast with you in Germany? When are you coming home? There's no Israel trip now. What's going on? I don't know. I got to try to find a way to get home. I'm the wandering Jew. All right. Somebody help Steve out, please. Hey, everybody, be sure to go to foiequip.org and sign up. be a part of what we're doing. You can learn the Bible from a Jewish perspective. We're wrapping up our Thursday night class on Shabbat with Peter Colon on October 19th. Be sure to get there. You can still register by going to foiequip.org. Hey, and I'm going to be teaching a class on Leviticus, Thanksgiving from Leviticus. Be sure to join us. Hey, we'll see you next week.